Cervical cancer vaccine

m'lady

My daughter has just started secondary school and I know very soon I'll be getting the forms in to sign permission for the vaccine.. I'm very paranoid over any kind of vaccine, and have looked into this, and it does list a range of side effects.. I'm not sure if this is scare mongering or not!

Just asking if any parent has chose not to go for this vaccine and why?

Thanks!

moochers

Hey OP,
I have no daughters but if I did, I think I would have slight reservations too re: side effects. The best thing to do is talk to your GP and research the literature.

Scaremongering is a possibility. Remember the doctor (who is now totally discredited and struck off) who linked MMR jabs to autism. Thousands of parents refused the vaccination and now there are outbreaks of measles which can be life threatening.

As I said, really look into it and if you are still not reassured, don't consent.
Cervical cancer is one of the more preventative cancers once it caught early, and as long as your daughter gets regular smears in the future there is probably nothing to worry about.

dharma200

Hpv is sexually transmitted. I personally would much prefer my daughters be educated of the risks involved in having unprotected sex, including that of cervical cancer. My daughters will not be receiving the vaccine. You will find very soon posters coming on screaming irresponsibility etc etc about not giving teenage girls this vaccine, you will get a lot of responses either way and so e probably not all that nice. The amount of litigation that is currently active around the globe in regards to this vaccine is ridiculous. Research and do t balk at pressure from either side of the debate. Look at the reasons why a vaccine is in place the reasons why the disease illness occurs, and weigh it up. Hths

dharma200

Also the whole one doctor and autism debacle should never influence a debate in a different and unrelated vaccine, the hov vaccine has nothing to do with the other vaccines that have caused controversy, and a decision for or against has nothing tomdomwith other vaccines and their history. Because one vaccine has been proven effectively to not cause debilitating effects, does not automatically preclude another to have other debilitating effects. In this debate many come in and say... " look at that nutter who said such and such caused such and such and it is t true" I would not use this as any type of reason to not research and conclude myself the best steps I preventative healthcare for my children hths

Apologies, predictive text is wrecking my head tonight

moochers

+1 Dharma
You hit the nail on the head re:educating teenagers about the risks of unprotected sex. This badly needs to be addressed properly in schools.

I remember when I was in 5th year in secondary. (20 years ago ) a doctor came in from the regional sexual health clinic. For almost two hours we were subjected to a slide show of both male and female genitalia covered in various sti ailments. It was a very effective and at the time very progressive way to educate. This should be done in every school.

Sorry for digressing now back to the main topic.

m'lady

Hey all,
Thanks for your replies, I definitely agree on the safe sex side of things and for one will definitely be educating my child when the time comes and not leaving it to the school.

I guess I'm worried should I chose not to allow her get it and something happens in the future.. god it's a hard thing to decide. I personally haven't heard of anyone taking a bad side effect, has anyone here?

I wish you get get a straight answer of a GP, but in reality they all sing off the same hymn sheet when it comes to vaccines in my opinion!

lazygal

I've had it. I got it as an adult.

I've never had unprotected sex and have had very few sexual partners. I don't see any issue with getting it, I'd have gotten it myself if it was available as a teenager. I've suffered no ill effects whatsoever and my daughter will get it too when the time comes. You can still educate boys and girls about safe sex, and have the vaccine.

Even though I've had the vaccine, I still have regular smear tests.

pwurple

Having known two people who died from cervical cancer far too young, my daughter will certainly be getting it. If i have a boy, he will be getting it too, even though I will have to pay for it. I will do what I can personally do to work against any cancer.

Vaccines are one of the best inventions of modern medicine. Prevention and immunity are the best ways to irradicate any disease.

The cervical cancer vaccine has been in use for a good while now. It has been deemed safe by the irish medical board. I would chat to your GP about your concerns. They are far better qualified to advise than randomers on the internet. Side effects are printed in the vaccine literature, and those are the only ones you should be paying attention to, along with their severity and incidence rate. Those are from clinical trials. Anything else IS scaremongering.

I can barely get my head around this sometimes though. teams work for years and eventually come up with an effective "cure" for a type of cancer and people actually don't want to take it up. Mind boggled.

m'lady

pwurple wrote: »

Having known two people who died from cervical cancer far too young, my daughter will certainly be getting it. If i have a boy, he will be getting it too, even though I will have to pay for it. I will do what I can personally do to work against any cancer.

Vaccines are one of the best inventions of modern medicine. Prevention and immunity are the best ways to irradicate any disease.

The cervical cancer vaccine has been in use for a good while now. It has been deemed safe by the irish medical board. I would chat to your GP about your concerns. They are far better qualified to advise than randomers on the internet. Side effects are printed in the vaccine literature, and those are the only ones you should be paying attention to, along with their severity and incidence rate. Those are from clinical trials. Anything else IS scaremongering.

I can barely get my head around this sometimes though. teams work for years and eventually come up with an effective "cure" for a type of cancer and people actually don't want to take it up. Mind boggled.

I didn't realise boys could get it?

I get what you say about teams working for years to come up with a 'cure', however the 'conspiracy theorist' or cynical side of me tells me they ( along with some medical professionals) are all funded by the big pharmaceutical companies and that we are not told of the full chances of developing the side effects.

I'm just a concerned parent that wants to see what other people think, but I do intend on researching it further before I make my mind up.

pwurple

m'lady wrote: »

I didn't realise boys could get it?

I get what you say about teams working for years to come up with a 'cure', however the 'conspiracy theorist' or cynical side of me tells me they ( along with some medical professionals) are all funded by the big pharmaceutical companies and that we are not told of the full chances of developing the side effects.

I'm just a concerned parent that wants to see what other people think, but I do intend on researching it further before I make my mind up.

Boys are carriers.

Yes, people manufacture and sell vaccines for profit. But it is very much in their interests too that it is safe, as if it's not, they get completely wiped out.

Also note, there are independent bodies who test these. It's not just companies putting them on the market with no checks whatsoever. The FDA and IMB (who are not pharma companies, these are govt agencies, domestic and international) will have audited vigorously before anything is allowed on the market. Down to levels I never even realised until I worked in this industry. From picking over every single trial patient with a fine tooth comb, to investigating the cleaning history for the last 6 months on anything the material or ingedients have touched. To checking the training history of every single person even remotely involved with that product, from IT to the person who swabs for bacteria contamination, to the security guard on the front desk. It's rigorous. I worked in the banking sector as well, and I thought the checks there were high. It's nothing like the level in pharma.

Penny Dreadful

m'lady wrote: »

I didn't realise boys could get it?

I get what you say about teams working for years to come up with a 'cure', however the 'conspiracy theorist' or cynical side of me tells me they ( along with some medical professionals) are all funded by the big pharmaceutical companies and that we are not told of the full chances of developing the side effects.

I'm just a concerned parent that wants to see what other people think, but I do intend on researching it further before I make my mind up.

I worked in the area of research and clincal trials for years - from an ethical point of view and acting as a watch dog. Trust me, people who research and trial these vaccines are not out to get you or developing a new drug for a week in the Bahamas courtesy of some pharma giant.

Pharma pays for research up to a point. There is nothing wrong with this. If they didn't the whole area of research would stall and medicine and healthcare would not develop on iota.

m'lady

Thanks pwurple and penny dreadful, both your inputs are very interesting, and has given me food for thought. I'm scared as I have heard all the horror stories.. What I'd also like to know is how necessary is this vaccine? If a woman has regular smear tests does the vaccine make a difference? I plan on asking my GP this anyway and am going to research it further without the horror stories..

bazza1

The last of my three daughters will be vaccinated next year, hopefully. A good vaccination programme involves proper education given to the receivers and their guardians. A very small statistical percentage may suffer side effects from any particular vaccination. Smallpox was eradicated by vaccination, and hopefully other nasty killer diseases may go the same route. It is horrible when any child suffers side effects from any vaccination, but this is mathematically insignificant compared to the mortality rate if vaccination were not available. Sounds cold-hearted, but that is the reality.

Make your choice on any vaccination as carefully as you can and excercise your right to that choice from an informed position with your kids welfare to the fore!

m'lady

dharma200 wrote: »

Hpv is sexually transmitted. I personally would much prefer my daughters be educated of the risks involved in having unprotected sex, including that of cervical cancer. My daughters will not be receiving the vaccine. You will find very soon posters coming on screaming irresponsibility etc etc about not giving teenage girls this vaccine, you will get a lot of responses either way and so e probably not all that nice. The amount of litigation that is currently active around the globe in regards to this vaccine is ridiculous. Research and do t balk at pressure from either side of the debate. Look at the reasons why a vaccine is in place the reasons why the disease illness occurs, and weigh it up. Hths

I would have this opinion Dharma, as in how necessary is this vaccine. It's a very difficult decision to make.

Penny Dreadful

m'lady wrote: »

Thanks pwurple and penny dreadful, both your inputs are very interesting, and has given me food for thought. I'm scared as I have heard all the horror stories.. What I'd also like to know is how necessary is this vaccine? If a woman has regular smear tests does the vaccine make a difference? I plan on asking my GP this anyway and am going to research it further without the horror stories..

I don't have children (yet.......working on it though:D) however, I would get this vaccine for them if I did.
Vaccines have come in for a lot of bad press lately and while I certainly agreee with asking questions and no one should blindly accept things simply because they are told to, I find it astounding how many people are forgetting what life was like pre vaccines.

In answer to your question re: smear tests, a lot of people avoid having them as they are .....well not fun. They assume that "it won't happen to them" and so leave long gaps between vaccines or don't have them at all. You're relying on your daughter getting the tests on a regular basis later in life.

Talk to your GP, explain your concerns, ask them to go through the information leafelt that will come with each vaccine and to explain in lay language anything you don't understand.
Then you're making a fully informed choice/ decision as to whether to have it or not. You'll know too that you've made this decision rather than relying on scare stories or what you may think is pharam spin.

m'lady

Penny Dreadful wrote: »

I don't have children (yet.......working on it though:D) however, I would get this vaccine for them if I did.
Vaccines have come in for a lot of bad press lately and while I certainly agreee with asking questions and no one should blindly accept things simply because they are told to, I find it astounding how many people are forgetting what life was like pre vaccines.

In answer to your question re: smear tests, a lot of people avoid having them as they are .....well not fun. They assume that "it won't happen to them" and so leave long gaps between vaccines or don't have them at all. You're relying on your daughter getting the tests on a regular basis later in life.

Talk to your GP, explain your concerns, ask them to go through the information leafelt that will come with each vaccine and to explain in lay language anything you don't understand.
Then you're making a fully informed choice/ decision as to whether to have it or not. You'll know too that you've made this decision rather than relying on scare stories or what you may think is pharam spin.[/quote

Awwww hope it works out for you (baby making!).. Anyway thanks for your advice, I'll definitely research it in full.

pwurple

m'lady wrote: »

I would have this opinion Dharma, as in how necessary is this vaccine. It's a very difficult decision to make.

It's a worry in today's world what people are getting up to. And how much they tell you. And what happens, god forbid, without their consent.

Disease is destroyed by good vaccine uptake. Smallpox, gone. Polio, gone. Measles, almost gone. These all caused huge suffering in their time. Wouldn't it be great if we could get rid of one cancer too?

It's all about risk. Make sure you understand both sets... The risk of getting the vaccine, and risk of not getting it.

January

Moved from Parenting. Mods please close if not appropriate.

RobFowl

I'm happy for this discussion to continue here, but would ask posters to read the forum charter here first.
2 main issues
Firstly NO medical or professional advice is permitted on this forum and this rule is strictly enforced by all mods here.
Secondly as this is a largely scientific forum please try to back up any opinions or statements with references ideally to peer reviewed articles.

rozeboosje

m'lady wrote: »

Thanks pwurple and penny dreadful, both your inputs are very interesting, and has given me food for thought. I'm scared as I have heard all the horror stories..

Here's a horror story for you:
cancer

HPV is transmitted via skin to skin contact. Therefore safe sex does not protect 100% against it, unless we invent condoms that cover the entire genitalia.

rozeboosje

Deleted User wrote: »

HPV is transmitted via skin to skin contact. Therefore safe sex does not protect 100% against it, unless we invent condoms that cover the entire genitalia.

latex onesies?

Penny Dreadful

rozeboosje wrote: »

latex onesies?

My eyes my eyes:eek:

There was something like that in one of the Nake Gun movies wasn't there:)
OT I know sorry for being bold but was too funny to not.

rozeboosje

Penny Dreadful wrote: »

There was something like that in one of the Nake Gun movies wasn't there:)

Maybe that's where my weird little mind pulled that idea from. A long suppressed memory XD

Dingle_berry

Just in relation to M'Ladys and Pwurples comments about boys/men and HPV, it is less common but men can and do get penile cancers - some of which are caused by HPV infection. Men are not just vectors of the infection. In some countries, like Australia, teenage males also receive the vaccine.
HPV infection is also implicated in anal cancers as well as oral, larangeal, etc.

The vaccine only protects against the most common strains of HPV (and therefore the most "dangerous" - for the moment). There are many more. That's why even if you get the vaccine and/or always practise safe sex availing of the cervical check programme is important. So is personal vigilance.

moochers

Agree with you Dingleberry,

Whether or not someone chooses the vaccine, they still need to be educated properly about the dangers of sti's. It's similar to just relaying on the pill as a contraceptive and not using condoms as a preventative against sti's. There still is that dickension attitude towards contraceptives as a deterrent against pregnancy only that is being educated in schools.

pwurple

Dingleberry wins most inappropriate username in the thread for that post about anal cancer.

canireally

Hi I've had regular smear tests and still got cervical cancer in my early twenties; if I had the choice in my teens I would definitely have taken the vaccine..

Jumboman

m'lady wrote: »

My daughter has just started secondary school and I know very soon I'll be getting the forms in to sign permission for the vaccine.. I'm very paranoid over any kind of vaccine, and have looked into this, and it does list a range of side effects.. I'm not sure if this is scare mongering or not!

Just asking if any parent has chose not to go for this vaccine and why?

Thanks!

Dont inject your daughter with that poison.

Do not trust your GP either they will just tell you whatever the pharmaceutical companies tell them to say. They are NOT Impartial.


Also the "link" between the "hpv virus" and cancer is dubious to say the least.

RobFowl

Jumboman wrote: »

Dont inject your daughter with that poison.

Do not trust your GP either they will just tell you whatever the pharmaceutical companies tell them to say. They are NOT Impartial.


Also the "link" between the "hpv virus" and cancer is dubious to say the least.

Please back up you comments with links to scientific and ideally peer reviewed artcles/research.

Making blanket (and quite outrageous) claims then backing them up with youtube clips is not good enough.

Jumboman

RobFowl wrote: »

Please back up you comments with links to scientific and ideally peer reviewed artcles/research.

Making blanket (and quite outrageous) claims then backing them up with youtube clips is not good enough.

Are the girls who suffered directly from the hpv vaccine not good enough evidence that the vaccine is dangerous ?

Who do you want to believe doctor$ or the victims of the vaccine.

It was only in the 1960s that they had peer reviewed evidence that showed tobacco was harmful to peoples health.

If you blindly believe what doctors tell you, you do so at your own your own pearl.

I learned the hard way not to trust doctors advice especially were their is money involved you can not trust them when they say x treatment is perfectly safe.

RobFowl

Jumboman wrote: »

Are the girls who suffered directly from the hpv vaccine not good enough evidence that the vaccine is dangerous ?

Who do you want to believe doctor$ or the victims of the vaccine.

It was only in the 1960s that they had peer reviewed evidence that showed tobacco was harmful to peoples health.

If you blindly believe what doctors tell you, you do so at your own your own pearl.

I learned the hard way not to trust doctors advice especially were their is money involved you can not trust them when they say x treatment is perfectly safe.

I've said it once already, back up any of your claims with evidence, ideally from a peer reviewed journal.
I'll simply delete any more posts which make claims that are not backed up.

jennytightlips

Excuse my ignorance on this but what are the main side effects from this vaccine?

RobFowl

jennytightlips wrote: »

Excuse my ignorance on this but what are the main side effects from this vaccine?

As per NetDoctor.co.uk

http://www.netdoctor.co.uk/sex-and-relationships/medicines/gardasil.html

Side effects

This vaccine contains no live virus and so cannot cause infection with HPV or any of the diseases HPV can cause.
Vaccines and their possible side effects can affect individual people in different ways. The following are some of the side effects that are known to be associated with this vaccine. Just because a side effect is stated here does not mean that all people receiving this vaccine will experience that or any side effect.
Very common (affect more than 1 in 10 people)

• Pain, redness or swelling at the injection site.
• Fever.
• Headache.

Common (affect between 1 in 10 and 1 in 100 people)

• Bruising or itching at the injection site.
• Feeling sick.
• Pain in extremities.

Rare (affect between 1 in 1000 and 1 in 10,000 people)

• Itchy skin rash (hives).

Very rare (affect less than 1 in 10,000 people)

• Narrowing of the airways, as occurs in an asthma attack (bronchospasm).

Unknown frequency (reported since the vaccine has been on the market)

• Swollen glands.
• Vomiting.
• Dizziness.
• Fainting in response to the injection.
• Aching muscles or joints.
• Feeling weak, tired or generally unwell.
• Chills.
• Allergic reactions.
• Skin infection at the injection site (cellulitis).

The side effects listed above may not include all of the side effects reported by the vaccine's manufacturer.For more information about any other possible risks associated with this vaccine, please read the information provided with the vaccine or consult your doctor or pharmacist.

Read more: http://www.netdoctor.co.uk/sex-and-relationships/medicines/gardasil.html#ixzz2gZXQkeTC
Follow us: @NetDoctor on Twitter | NetDoctorUK on Facebook

Jumboman

RobFowl wrote: »

I've said it once already, back up any of your claims with evidence, ideally from a peer reviewed journal.
I'll simply delete any more posts which make claims that are not backed up.

They have stopped the vaccine in japan does that not concern you ?

http://sanevax.org/breaking-news-japan-and-hpv-vaccines/

Citizens of Japan suffering from convulsions, seizures, severe headaches, partial paralysis and a host of other adverse events after submitting to HPV vaccinations have petitioned their government health officials to permanently suspend the use of 'cervical cancer' vaccines. According to testimony presented to the National Health Ministry by Dr. Sotaro Sato, who has examined many of the injured girls:

"...the convulsions, inability to walk, and involuntary movements of hands and toes were caused by encephalomyelitis, or inflammation of the brain and spinal cord. Cervical cancer vaccines, which are chemically bound to special types of adjuvants, often trigger encephalomyelitis. Since the vaccines cause auto-antibodies against the brain's neuronal fibers to be produced in many cases, they have triggered demyelinating disorders. They have also induced many cases of cerebral vasculitis."

RobFowl

Jumboman wrote: »

They have stopped the vaccine in japan does that not concern you ?

http://sanevax.org/breaking-news-japan-and-hpv-vaccines/

Citizens of Japan suffering from convulsions, seizures, severe headaches, partial paralysis and a host of other adverse events after submitting to HPV vaccinations have petitioned their government health officials to permanently suspend the use of 'cervical cancer' vaccines. According to testimony presented to the National Health Ministry by Dr. Sotaro Sato, who has examined many of the injured girls:

"...the convulsions, inability to walk, and involuntary movements of hands and toes were caused by encephalomyelitis, or inflammation of the brain and spinal cord. Cervical cancer vaccines, which are chemically bound to special types of adjuvants, often trigger encephalomyelitis. Since the vaccines cause auto-antibodies against the brain's neuronal fibers to be produced in many cases, they have triggered demyelinating disorders. They have also induced many cases of cerebral vasculitis."

They haven't stopped the vaccine they have partially suspended the program. See a report on it here from the Lancet

http://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736%2813%2961831-0/fulltext

The Japanese Ministry of Health, Labour, and Welfare (MHLW) partially suspended the human papillomavirus (HPV) vaccination programme in June, 2013. Although HPV vaccination has just been included in the routine vaccination schedule and publicly funded since April 2013, a new MHLW directive advises prefectural governors not to actively recommend the vaccine, and to cease all vaccine promotion. However, health facilities are to continue to offer parents seeking the vaccine full support, and facilitate vaccine access. Such advice obviously creates enormous confusion for public health officials, doctors, and parents. A joint meeting of the Vaccine Adverse Reactions Review Committee (VARRC) has indicated that they might remove HPV vaccination from the schedule, despite evidence of its cost-effectiveness in Japan.1
This directive was issued due to fears of adverse events, especially complex regional pain syndrome. However, the present system of reporting adverse events does not follow a systematic process for identifying causality; a rigorous scientific approach is needed to investigate adverse events associated with HPV vaccines.2 Furthermore, the decision to suspend the vaccination programme was taken by a 3:2 vote of the VARRC, without presentation of adequate scientific evidence. Japan's vaccination system suffers from a failure of governance—also reflected in other aspects of the vaccination schedule. Mumps, adult pneumococcal, rotavirus, and hepatitis B vaccines have yet to be introduced in the routine schedule, even though they are recommended by WHO; and other vaccinations (such as Haemophilus influenzae type b and pneumococcal conjugate vaccination) have been introduced without proper cost-effectiveness assessment.

Jumboman

www.naturalnews.com has good articles on the HPV vaccine I recommend that site as starting point for anyone who wants info on the HPV vaccine.

Also Dr Peter Duesberg (microbiologist) wrote a paper questioning the link between the "hpv virus" and cancer Ill try and find a link for that paper and post it here.

RobFowl

Jumboman wrote: »

www.naturalnews.com has good articles on the HPV vaccine I recommend that site as starting point for anyone who wants info on the HPV vaccine.

Also Dr Peter Duesberg (microbiologist) wrote a paper questioning the link between the "hpv virus" and cancer Ill try and find a link for that paper and post it here.

That website is subject to a lot of criticism...
As per wikipedia

Among its most outspoken critics are David Gorski of ScienceBlogs,[10] who has called it "one of the most wretched hives of scum and quackery on the Internet," and the most "blatant purveyor of the worst kind of quackery and paranoid anti-physician and anti-medicine conspiracy theories anywhere on the Internet",[11] as well as Peter Bowditch of the website Ratbags,[12] and Jeff McMahon writing for Forbes.[13] Steven Novella has called NaturalNews "a crank alt med site that promotes every sort of medical nonsense imaginable. If it is unscientific, antiscientific, conspiracy-mongering, or downright silly, Mike Adams appears to be all for it – whatever sells the "natural" products he hawks on his site.".[14]
Other critics of Adams' website include astronomer and blogger Phil Plait,[15] PZ Myers,[16] Mark Hoofnagle[17] and Brian Dunning, who listed it as #1 on his "Top 10 Worst Anti-Science Websites" list.[18] Adams is listed as a "promoter of questionable methods" by Quackwatch[19] and Robert T. Carroll at The Skeptic's Dictionary has said, "Natural News is not a very good source for information. If you don't trust me on this, go to Respectful Insolence or any of the other bloggers on ScienceBlogs and do a search for "Natural News" or "Mike Adams" (who is NaturalNews). Hundreds of entries will be found and not one of them will have a good word to say about Mike Adams as a source."[20]

echo beach

Jumboman wrote: »

I learned the hard way not to trust doctors advice especially were their is money involved you can not trust them when they say x treatment is perfectly safe.

No doctor would claim that X-ray treatment is 'perfectly' safe or would advise you to have it unless you needed it. It involves radiation and so a small amount of risk.
Any vaccine, like any everything else, involves risk but being unvaccinated exposes you to far greater risk that is why I'm delighted that my daughters were able to have this vaccine. Since you seem to be impressed by anecdotal evidence from individuals I can tell you they suffered no ill-effects what so ever.

Dingle_berry

Jumboman wrote: »

Also Dr Peter Duesberg (microbiologist) wrote a paper questioning the link between the "hpv virus" and cancer Ill try and find a link for that paper and post it here.

Was this paper published in a peer reviewed journal of science?

Here is one that I would trust more, its from the American Journal of Clinical Pathology which "complies with International Committee of Medical Journal Editors’ Uniform Requirements for Manuscripts": http://ajcp.ascpjournals.org/content/121/4/537.full.pdf
In it you can see a picture of a dysplastic cervical epithelial cell stained to show the HPV viral protein within it (Image 2)

For anyone with genuine concerns about the vaccine, please don't give youtube videos and blogs too much credence. They are one persons opinion. The opinion of healthcare professionals is based on that individuals experience plus a lot of scientific research monitored by many other scientists.
The HSE information about the school vaccination programme: http://www.hse.ie/eng/health/az/H/HPV-vaccination/
Manufacters patient information leaflet for the vaccine used in the above programme (see pages 2+3 for reactions/side effects): http://www.merck.com/product/usa/pi_circulars/g/gardasil/gardasil_ppi.pdf

locum-motion

Jumboman wrote: »

...Also Dr Peter Duesberg (microbiologist) wrote a paper questioning the link between the "hpv virus" and cancer Ill try and find a link for that paper and post it here.

Would that be the same Peter Duesberg who claims that HIV doesn't cause AIDS?

Jumboman

echo beach wrote: »

No doctor would claim that X-ray treatment is 'perfectly' safe or would advise you to have it unless you needed it. It involves radiation and so a small amount of risk.
Any vaccine, like any everything else, involves risk but being unvaccinated exposes you to far greater risk that is why I'm delighted that my daughters were able to have this vaccine. Since you seem to be impressed by anecdotal evidence from individuals I can tell you they suffered no ill-effects what so ever.

I was talking about treatments in general not any particular treatment.

Dingle_berry

Jumboman wrote: »

Yes watch this documentary and tell me you still believe that hiv causes aids.

Didn't take as long as I thought. At 30 seconds it claims that 10 people die a second from AIDS. Nobody dies from AIDS.

Youtube is not a peer reviewed source of scientific information. This is the Health Sciences forum. I personally think that your youtube links belong in the Conspiracy Theories forum.

sam34

jumboman, you were asked repeatedly to back up your claims with peer reviewed articles, yet you come out with more YouTube links and virusmyth.com. posts deleted as per previous warning.

take it to conspiracy theories. this is a science forum.


do not post in this thread again, or you will be banned. no further warning.

Jumboman

So much for open debate...

locum-motion

"Open debate", in the Science forum, means debate based on science. I suggest you learn to live with it.

ps. Did you ever pay your doctor's bill?



(Mods: Not sure if this constitutes "Back seat modding" or not. If you feel it does, please feel free to delete.)

Jumboman

locum-motion wrote: »

"Open debate", in the Science forum, means debate based on science. I suggest you learn to live with it.

ps. Did you ever pay your doctor's bill?



(Mods: Not sure if this constitutes "Back seat modding" or not. If you feel it does, please feel free to delete.)

I did pose a scientific question about the issue but it was deleted I have now been gagged from talking about the issue.

It seems people here have a religious belief system when it comes to mainstream medicine which can never be questioned.

echo beach

There is plenty of questioning of mainstream medicine here and in every forum that is truly scientific. That is how science works. People have a theory, an idea, and they try to find evidence or proof that either backs up their idea or shows that it is wrong.

Science doesn't always get the answers, and often the answer we get isn't the one we would like but if you don't like the answer you have to find proof that it is wrong. You can't just say 'I say it is wrong' and here are a few people who agree with me.

sam34

sam34 wrote: »

jumboman, you were asked repeatedly to back up your claims with peer reviewed articles, yet you come out with more YouTube links and virusmyth.com.

take it to conspiracy theories. this is a science forum.


do not post in this thread again, or you will be banned. no further warning.

Jumboman wrote: »

So much for open debate...

Jumboman wrote: »

I did pose a scientific question about the issue but it was deleted I have now been gagged from talking about the issue.

It seems people here have a religious belief system when it comes to mainstream medicine which can never be questioned.

don't say you weren't warned. banned.

Nonoperational

Holy God. A level of restraint shown that I would be unlikely able to match.