Bord bia

deburca98

Hi I am a qualified internal quality auditor, i audit various standards, i am interested in starting my own audit business auditing the bord bia standards anyone have any experience in this

blue5000

deburca98 wrote: »

Hi I am a qualified internal quality auditor, i audit various standards, i am interested in starting my own audit business auditing the bord bia standards anyone have any experience in this

Maybe give Larry goodman a shout?:D

deburca98

i ment auditing farms thanks for your constructive feedback

whelan1

do you mean you want to know what we think of bord bia inspections? also on another note do you have to do the inspection? all i ever send to the factory is a handful of culls, is it worth it....

mf240

deburca98 wrote: »

i ment auditing farms thanks for your constructive feedback

Ya audit the farmers again.
Don't worry about containers of meat coming in from unknown origins.
Don't worry about mislabeling of imported products.
Don't worry about horsemeat in burgers.
Inspect yet again the already over inspected farmers and the only honest and hard working link in the chain.

Conmaicne Mara

mf240 wrote: »

Ya audit the farmers again.
Don't worry about containers of meat coming in from unknown origins.
Don't worry about mislabeling of imported products.
Don't worry about horsemeat in burgers.
Inspect yet again the already over inspected farmers and the only honest and hard working link in the chain.

And then put out TV adverts saying rain grows fat lambs :rolleyes: Bord Bia were supposed to be at the farm walk I attended yesterday, was going to have a dig about that but they didn't come in the end.

arais

had my bord bia audit this year, also had dairy hygiene and unannounced inspection from Dept,

thanks Op but I think I'll survive without you

mf240

Conmaicne Mara wrote: »

And then put out TV adverts saying rain grows fat lambs :rolleyes: .

The best one was "a happy turkey is a tasty turkey"

Zoo4m8

Conmaicne Mara wrote: »

And then put out TV adverts saying rain grows fat lambs :rolleyes: Bord Bia were supposed to be at the farm walk I attended yesterday, was going to have a dig about that but they didn't come in the end.

Ah, don't be so hard on Bord Bia, the general public they are selling to think all farmers have nothing better to do than wander their fields looking for eagles and other birds of prey to poison or waiting at the gate for the postman to collect their big cheques from Brussels , so if they believe this guff and buy more lamb, job done!

Incidentally , I love the Bord's version of a typical farmer, Barbour jacket, flat cap and clean as a whistle!

deburca98

I am interested in how the quality standards work from a compliance point of view.
Appreciate the pain of inspections, but the standards could be improved to make them better.
since i started researching the BB standards as a consumer i have been impressed with the requirements that are set out.
As i said i work in the quality sector for industry
Inspections are part and parcel, but since reading the standards i am more likely as a consumer to by bord bia approved food than meat of unknown origin.
I am interested in being an auditor arais, and i would like to bring industry experience in dealing with audits to the farmer to make the pain of inspection less of a pain, as audits should be about feedback not punishment

deburca98

This is interesting thanks for your replies seems like someone needs to audit Bord Bia, so they dont implement their standards am i right here because if they were a business they would loose their registration to a QS standard. looks like the standards are a smokescreen for the consumer

towzer2010

deburca98 wrote: »

This is interesting thanks for your replies seems like someone needs to audit Bord Bia, so they dont implement their standards am i right here because if they were a business they would loose their registration to a QS standard. looks like the standards are a smokescreen for the consumer

Are you a troll???

How on earth do you do you jump to that conclusion? No one here said they don't implement their standards. From what I have heard the are very strict with farmers.

If you want to audit further up the line go for it.

Conmaicne Mara

Zoo4m8 wrote: »

Ah, don't be so hard on Bord Bia, the general public they are selling to think all farmers have nothing better to do than wander their fields looking for eagles and other birds of prey to poison or waiting at the gate for the postman to collect their big cheques from Brussels , so if they believe this guff and buy more lamb, job done!

Incidentally , I love the Bord's version of a typical farmer, Barbour jacket, flat cap and clean as a whistle!

And Bord Bia are perpetuating that myth nicely, imagine the wet Summers of 11 & 12. I am sure there was a % of people, who don't know any better, thinking sure farmers must be coining it with all this rain :eek:

I want them to buy lamb, but they can leave the guff out of it.

Dont be daft

I strongly suspect your trolling here but lets say your not.

Have a small bit of appreciation for the effect the horse meat scandal has had on the opinions of Irish farmers.
Bord Bia Quality Assuarance has been stringently applied and monitored on Irish farms. It hasn't been smooth sailing and the additional workload has been considerable and heavily borne by the farmer.

After all this, and a very noticeable crusade of mission creep the horse meat scandal broke. What an insult to any producer to be continually curtailed and hindered by often quite frankly ridiculous buerocracy, only to learn of another group within the industry to be given apparent free reign to do what they liked.

Bord Bia have failed both producers and consumers in their inability to control the processors. If not for the FSA they would still be failing them.

If you want to apply your considerable expierence in auditing or quality control then can I be so bold as to suggest that you concentrate your efforts on what recent events have thought us is the obvious weak point in beef production in this country, the processors.
We're yet to see anyone to be held accountable for the horse meat fiasco.
Until that has happened Bord Bia have no business developing their on farm auditing.

Muckit

deburca98 wrote: »

I am interested in how the quality standards work from a compliance point of view.
Appreciate the pain of inspections, but the standards could be improved to make them better.
since i started researching the BB standards as a consumer i have been impressed with the requirements that are set out.
As i said i work in the quality sector for industry
Inspections are part and parcel, but since reading the standards i am more likely as a consumer to by bord bia approved food than meat of unknown origin.
I am interested in being an auditor arais, and i would like to bring industry experience in dealing with audits to the farmer to make the pain of inspection less of a pain, as audits should be about feedback not punishment

So do u hope to be working on contract for bord bia????

deburca98

hi dont
no i am not trolling
thanks for that insight.
I agree the recent horse meat scandal was the (secondary) producers fault not the farmers,
My aim is to help farmers develop systems that take the pain out of bord bia audits and which require minimal input to maintain from other industries.
I guess i am looking to change to the food industry, and i dont have all the knowledge yet, my ignorance is probably upsetting to people.It an industry i am keen to learn and i believe it is Ireland's best product our food which will aid our recovery.
Thanks for your help

deburca98

Muckit wrote: »

So do u hope to be working on contract for bord bia????

no eventually tender for audits but main aim in first 5 years is to develop a system that makes it easier for farmers to maintain records and make compliance easier via checklists etc.

Dampintheattic

deburca98 wrote: »

hi dont
no i am not trolling
thanks for that insight.
I agree the recent horse meat scandal was the (secondary) producers fault not the farmers,
My aim is to help farmers develop systems that take the pain out of bord bia audits and which require minimal input to maintain from other industries.
I guess i am looking to change to the food industry, and i dont have all the knowledge yet, my ignorance is probably upsetting to people.It an industry i am keen to learn and i believe it is Ireland's best product our food which will aid our recovery.
Thanks for your help

You want to help farmers develop systems, that take the pain out of BB audits!
So in essence, you want to become a consultant to farmer clients!!
But you start from a base of knowing nothing about the business or the industry!
I'm having visions of you running out the gate of the first farmer you consult for, with a pitchfork stuck in your rear end -;)

deburca98

I am trying to start a business pardon me for having an ambition, seems that with all the negativity i might as well not bother. I don't see a state body being in any position to dictate quality to anyone as no one in the organisation is accountable. I am from a farming background myself the area i have little experience in is the food processing plants but most of them will have a quality system of some sort so it would not take me long to learn the ropes.
I am trying to develop a reasonably priced (150 euro) software system that will help with record and quality management but today has put me right off the plan tbh.
I Dont aim to tell anyone their business just offer guidance i am not in it to fleece farmers, i just want to gain experience which in turn brings competence.

If you want to learn about quality theory i suggest you google W Edwards Deming, i was lucky to study from an Irish quality expert who studied under Deming who is the reason why Japanese cars are the some of best in the world. i want this for Irish food

If you can't describe what you are doing as a process, you don't know what you're doing.
W. Edwards Deming

All anyone asks for is a chance to work with pride.
W. Edwards Deming

delaval

If its a program you're developing I think you should check out some of the companies supplying us software. Kings wood and Irish Farm Computers are two I know of. With their systems you shold be fine on the paperwork side if you record properly of course.

There is a thread re. Farm Apps on here and what people seem to want is a mobile recorder.

deburca98

delaval wrote: »

If its a program you're developing I think you should check out some of the companies supplying us software. Kings wood and Irish Farm Computers are two I know of. With their systems you shold be fine on the paperwork side if you record properly of course.

There is a thread re. Farm Apps on here and what people seem to want is a mobile recorder.

yea that's what i am aiming to do to make the management portable, I am also working on another system that is more automated.
Thanks for your help much appreciated

Dont be daft

deburca98 wrote: »

yea that's what i am aiming to do to make the management portable, I am also working on another system that is more automated.
Thanks for your help much appreciated

The impression you gave me from your OP was that you were interested in adding an additional tier to the farm inspection process. Audit the inspection kind of thing.
That's something that no farmer would agree to.

On the issue of a portable program, I don't really see a market for a specific program. Most software packages can be used to maintain the records and standards BBQA requires.
I wouldn't see the point in buying a program solely for the issue of an on-farm inspection when I can just use the program I have.

If it was me I'd approach the likes of Kingswood with an additional BBQA tab to add to their current program.

A physical checklist for older or less computer savvy farmers is a good idea.

Viewtodiefor

deburca98 wrote: »

no eventually tender for audits but main aim in first 5 years is to develop a system that makes it easier for farmers to maintain records and make compliance easier via checklists etc.

I don't think farmers have too many problems with the audit if they are anyway clued in. Most bord bia inspectors are reasonable enough with farmers an understand farming practices, not sure if someone coming onto a farm from an outside industry would work as farming does not work like regular industry!
However as said here the problem yet again lies in the processing plants and their total disregard for standards and their suppliers, by all means bring outside industry standards to them!! Best of luck with that!!

Muckit

deburca98 wrote: »

no eventually tender for audits but main aim in first 5 years is to develop a system that makes it easier for farmers to maintain records and make compliance easier via checklists etc.

Sure we can do all that ourselves. Go bark up another tree cos there's no money growing off this one

blue5000

deburca98 wrote: »

hi dont
no i am not trolling
thanks for that insight.
I agree the recent horse meat scandal was the (secondary) producers fault not the farmers,
My aim is to help farmers develop systems that take the pain out of bord bia audits and which require minimal input to maintain from other industries.
I guess i am looking to change to the food industry, and i dont have all the knowledge yet, my ignorance is probably upsetting to people.It an industry i am keen to learn and i believe it is Ireland's best product our food which will aid our recovery.
Thanks for your help

OP whatever software you are thinking about designing I hope it has some sort of built in grammar and spell check, many of your posts have to be read twice before they make sense to me, but sure I'm just a thick farmer. There is no pain with a BB audit.

If you could come up with some sort of independent appeal system for Dept. of agriculture inspections, I'd be interested.

paddysdream

Dont be daft wrote: »

I strongly suspect your trolling here but lets say your not.

Have a small bit of appreciation for the effect the horse meat scandal has had on the opinions of Irish farmers.
Bord Bia Quality Assuarance has been stringently applied and monitored on Irish farms. It hasn't been smooth sailing and the additional workload has been considerable and heavily borne by the farmer.

Are you serious?
Have had 3 or 4 Bord Bia sheep audits and 1 cattle (couple of years ago and they are a piece of p**s.If you couldnt achieve at least 95% (unsure what the pass rate is but it cant be that high)then you have problems.

All they look for are the basics;flock and herd register filled out ,medicine book filled out or at least a good effort;knackery dockets ;stock tagged;stock in good health;housing and facilities adequate;enough fodder;no out of date drugs or inappropriate ones for the stock you have;safety statement(5 minute job) ;bait plan(2 minute job);meal dockets to show that only approved stuff is fed or what you use if home mixing.At the moment thats all that rings a bell but sure to have forgot something.

The inspection costs zilch,takes very little time or effort and whilst it does nothing for the individual farmer(which is not the point of it anyway) it is there to reassure the consumer(yes the people who actually buy our produce eventually).

If all or any of the above is that unusual,time consuming or difficult then you have to ask yourself why.

After all that I personally think its a waste of time as ;

(a)standards are way too lax ie too easy to pass
(b)differential in price is not really always that evident
(c)factories and processors use it as a way to cover their as**s
(d)no incentive from a farmers point of view to bother with it
(e)the whole "no gm,no by product spreading thing"

deburca98

blue5000 wrote: »

OP whatever software you are thinking about designing I hope it has some sort of built in grammar and spell check, many of your posts have to be read twice before they make sense to me, but sure I'm just a thick farmer. There is no pain with a BB audit.

If you could come up with some sort of independent appeal system for Dept. of agriculture inspections, I'd be interested.

Dear Sir
My heartfelt apologies if my grammatical style is not to your predilection.
In truth I was unaware of lack of countenance for poor composition and grammar on this communiqué system.
Your harsh self depreciation due to your occupation as an agricultural cultivator is superfluous my dear sir, for moral and grammatical compasses such as yourself are lacking in this the ether that is the internet.
I applaud you good sir and offer you every encouragement and say that you should thrust forward in your one man crusade to improve grammar in the torrid squalor that is the internet.
Please allow me to be the Sancho Panza to your Don Quixote like crusade as you charge forward on your steed Rocinante ever forwards towards your own personal windmill, that being bad grammar on the internet.

Also i have looked at the training required for Bord Bia auditors and there is no official auditing standard required by the contractors who tender to Bord Bia.


I also suppose my experience in dealing with the US federal Food and Drug Administration would be of no use to a farmer appealing a bord bia audit.
I saw somewhere on boards that the auditor put not worming a cat as a finding against him, my response to that and this is some free general auditing advice. if its not in the standard ie wrote specifically then its not a finding. My response to that and any response to an auditor is "show me in the standard where that is wrote down or relevant".
But i am just the offspring of a thick farmer sure what would i know.

deburca98

paddysdream wrote: »

Are you serious?
Have had 3 or 4 Bord Bia sheep audits and 1 cattle (couple of years ago and they are a piece of p**s.If you couldnt achieve at least 95% (unsure what the pass rate is but it cant be that high)then you have problems.

All they look for are the basics;flock and herd register filled out ,medicine book filled out or at least a good effort;knackery dockets ;stock tagged;stock in good health;housing and facilities adequate;enough fodder;no out of date drugs or inappropriate ones for the stock you have;safety statement(5 minute job) ;bait plan(2 minute job);meal dockets to show that only approved stuff is fed or what you use if home mixing.At the moment thats all that rings a bell but sure to have forgot something.

The inspection costs zilch,takes very little time or effort and whilst it does nothing for the individual farmer(which is not the point of it anyway) it is there to reassure the consumer(yes the people who actually buy our produce eventually).

If all or any of the above is that unusual,time consuming or difficult then you have to ask yourself why.

After all that I personally think its a waste of time as ;

(a)standards are way too lax ie too easy to pass
(b)differential in price is not really always that evident
(c)factories and processors use it as a way to cover their as**s
(d)no incentive from a farmers point of view to bother with it
(e)the whole "no gm,no by product spreading thing"

Paddy
I took a look at the standards and your right, but the training of the auditors is also a question that needs to be addressed.
I have been audited by notified bodies of various countries and registration bodies, the standards Bord Bia set out are good practice standards at best.
Thanks for the input

tabby aspreme

The money Bord Bia spend on QA would be better spent on residue testing in the factories for if a farmer was up to something dodgy its not going to be recorded for Bord Bia to see. Bord Bia are nothing more than a PR outfit.

If you want to take some of the pain out of an on farm audit then supply some strong gloves for use when giving the dog and cat there worm dose

blue5000

deburca98 wrote: »

Dear Sir
My heartfelt apologies if my grammatical style is not to your predilection.
In truth I was unaware of lack of countenance for poor composition and grammar on this communiqué system.
Your harsh self depreciation due to your occupation as an agricultural cultivator is superfluous my dear sir, for moral and grammatical compasses such as yourself are lacking in this the ether that is the internet.
I applaud you good sir and offer you every encouragement and say that you should thrust forward in your one man crusade to improve grammar in the torrid squalor that is the internet.
Please allow me to be the Sancho Panza to your Don Quixote like crusade as you charge forward on your steed Rocinante ever forwards towards your own personal windmill, that being bad grammar on the internet.

Also i have looked at the training required for Bord Bia auditors and there is no official auditing standard required by the contractors who tender to Bord Bia.


I also suppose my experience in dealing with the US federal Food and Drug Administration would be of no use to a farmer appealing a bord bia audit.
I saw somewhere on boards that the auditor put not worming a cat as a finding against him, my response to that and this is some free general auditing advice. if its not in the standard ie wrote specifically then its not a finding. My response to that and any response to an auditor is "show me in the standard where that is wrote down or relevant".
But i am just the offspring of a thick farmer sure what would i know.

Oh you'll do well as a bullsh1tter alright, just clicking on the 'ignore' button. Goodnight.

sbell2205

Sorry i am new to boards, Im a UCD student studying agri business. As part of 1 of my classes, (marketing) it has been arranged that marketing director for Bord Bia Michael Murphy will be making a guest appearance. The reason i post this is i would like to have a few difficult questions to pose to him, i am not high up oin the going ons of Bord Bia so hopefully i could get a bit of info from a few people. Thankyou