Flemenstar To Tony Martin

jimjamcos

Casey set to lose his star according to twitter.. Crushing blow for Casey if true. Suppose we'll find out if it was trainer or owner holding horse back last season now. An interesting decision, albeit a ruthless one by owner.

CheltenhamJ

Disappointing blow for the smaller man - pity - Martin is on a high at moment

Slattsy

Owner seems to think he knows more about horses than the trainer #clown

bellybuster12

http://www.racingpost.com/news/live.sd?event_id=1095285&category=0

Sounds like the owner thinks he is the trainer and just using Casey as he has a licence. Must be really hard dealing with this kind of owner(by this i mean the way he comes across). This would be a massive blow for the Caseys.

shy-tall-knight

bellybuster12 wrote: »

http://www.racingpost.com/news/live.sd?event_id=1095285&category=0

Sounds like the owner thinks he is the trainer and just using Casey as he has a licence. Must be really hard dealing with this kind of owner(by this i mean the way he comes across). This would be a massive blow for the Caseys.

To be fair, Curran was always in charge of Flemenstar's pre training every summer and he also trained him to win his point to point. That said, the friction between Casey and Curran was palpable in the weeks after the Hennessy. I don't know if any of you watched "The Irish Road to Cheltenham" on RTE but it all looked very frosty to me after the Lexus.

bellybuster12

shy-tall-knight wrote: »

To be fair, Curran was always in charge of Flemenstar's pre training every summer and he also trained him to win his point to point. That said, the friction between Casey and Curran was palpable in the weeks after the Hennessy. I don't know if any of you watched "The Irish Road to Cheltenham" on RTE but it all looked very frosty to me after the Lexus.

Fully understand, what i mean is when you have two trainers as such and a very talented horse it must be very hard to get a happy medium with both parties.

finbarrk

Slattsy wrote: »

Owner seems to think he knows more about horses than the trainer #clown

Isn't the owner entitled to get the horse trained by whoever he wants to?

michael thomas

its a shame for racing as the story meant more to the public with casey in charge of the horse, great entertainment value as well as the fact that he is a capeable trainer and should of been left to it.

UrbanSea

Owner seems to blame Casey for not noticing how sick the horse was last year. Reminds me of when Voy Por Ustedes went to Henderson from King having been ran for months with an unnoticed fracture, that said Casey isn't a vet

Slattsy

finbarrk wrote: »

Isn't the owner entitled to get the horse trained by whoever he wants to?

Of course. Point?

LutherBlissett

If it was the owner in control he was doing a terrible job of it - can't seem to settle on a trip for the horse (or the fact that the horse might not be as brilliant as originally believed - I think that's the main problem really).

Shame to see Casey lose out if the owner was behind the mismanagement of the horse, hopefully people look behind the issue to see where the blame really lies.

the groutch

owners need to just let the trainer do their job, the ill-fated Venn Ottery being the perfect example.

longshotvalue

still if i had a horse like be interested to see what a top level trainer could do with him (although i could think of a few better options), an owner is very unlikely to have a horse as good again and may well regret not putting him with a top trainer just in case..

On last years form he is just below top class and would find it difficult to win any real grade 1, but if the claims are true (seems doubtful) that he was sick all last year then he could still be anything..

Hulk Hands

Personally if owned a once in a lifetime horse and wasn't a millionaire, i'd want to give the horse the best possible chance of reaching the top. If that's screwing over a smaller trainer, so be it. Especially if the owner has grievances with the way the horse was trained last year. Perhaps the owner is the interfering sort, but with this decision that's irrelevant. You can be sure Martin won't stand for interference though.

hawkeyethenoo

Hulk Hands wrote: »

Personally if owned a once in a lifetime horse and wasn't a millionaire, i'd want to give the horse the best possible chance of reaching the top.

well its obvious you've never owned a horse. if as you say we are taking not being a millionaire then there is a huge difference in trainer fees for a willie mullins compared to a peter casey, as a guy with a horse in training im telling you know i couldnt afford mullins fees compared to the trainer who i do actually have a horse, doesnt matter if i think the horse is a superstar.

Hulk Hands wrote: »

If that's screwing over a smaller trainer, so be it. Especially if the owner has grievances with the way the horse was trained last year. Perhaps the owner is the interfering sort, but with this decision that's irrelevant. You can be sure Martin won't stand for interference though.

if curran thinks he is so great why doesnt he take out a licence himself and train it! he gave the horse to casey so let him train it instead of interfering thinking he knows best!

ste2010

I tend to agree with some of the comments here re moving the horse. IMO if you have a horse with those type of prospects, I'd probably arrange a quarterly vet check up during the season just to make sure he's 100%. If he's 99% I wouldn't run him. If casey had the horse running ill last year..I would have taken the horse out of the yard. I feel sorry for the man though he's a likeable fella and at his age I'm sure it's probably the best horse that's passed through his stable.
That aside flemenstars owner on that RTE show didn't sound like the kind of bloke of like to have a few pints with either.

ste2010

Best of luck to tony Martin though..they should run him in the king George because I know they'll only be itching to get him to run 3m again. Then run him in the Ryanair, even though he wasn't well from what I've seen he certainly won't be getting 3m 2

UrbanSea

ste2010 wrote: »

I tend to agree with some of the comments here re moving the horse. IMO if you have a horse with those type of prospects, I'd probably arrange a quarterly vet check up during the season just to make sure he's 100%. If he's 99% I wouldn't run him. If casey had the horse running ill last year..I would have taken the horse out of the yard. I feel sorry for the man though he's a likeable fella and at his age I'm sure it's probably the best horse that's passed through his stable.
That aside flemenstars owner on that RTE show didn't sound like the kind of bloke of like to have a few pints with either.

That's the thing though, a horse that good surely he is getting checked by the vets every month never mind ever three to make sure there's nothing wrong, even after every poor run to be 100% sure you're not damaging a very good horse

ste2010

UrbanSea wrote: »

That's the thing though, a horse that good surely he is getting checked by the vets every month never mind ever three to make sure there's nothing wrong, even after every poor run to be 100% sure you're not damaging a very good horse

That's what I would have thought but how would they miss it for the whole season...does anyone know specifically what was wrong with flemenstar

Hulk Hands

hawkeyethenoo wrote: »

well its obvious you've never owned a horse. if as you say we are taking not being a millionaire then there is a huge difference in trainer fees for a willie mullins compared to a peter casey, as a guy with a horse in training im telling you know i couldnt afford mullins fees compared to the trainer who i do actually have a horse, doesnt matter if i think the horse is a superstar.

So you've never heard of selling a stake in the horse to cover training fees? For a horse like Flemenstar that stake would be tiny. Anyways, in this case I was obviously talking about Curran and his move, in which he obviously does have the option available to him to move the horse. Kudos on owning a horse

Huntley

Some sick horse that can still run consistently for the majority of the season.

Horse isn't Gold Cup material and lacks true staying power that will be exposed against the top milers. It will happen again this season if they persist with running him against the best stayers over 3 miles.

The only race that I could say he didn't run up to scratch would be Aintree as I don't believe he is 15 lengths worse off with Cue Card over 2 and a half.

A high quality middle distance animal who unfortunately will struggle to win those type of races across the pond. I'd probably back him to beat anything in the Durkan though, but can't see him winning another Grade 1 if he takes a similar route as last season.

Motivator

ste2010 wrote: »

I tend to agree with some of the comments here re moving the horse. IMO if you have a horse with those type of prospects, I'd probably arrange a quarterly vet check up during the season just to make sure he's 100%. If he's 99% I wouldn't run him. If casey had the horse running ill last year..I would have taken the horse out of the yard. I feel sorry for the man though he's a likeable fella and at his age I'm sure it's probably the best horse that's passed through his stable.
That aside flemenstars owner on that RTE show didn't sound like the kind of bloke of like to have a few pints with either.

I have to disagree with you about Peter Casey, he doesn't come across as a likeable fella at all. I thought he was funny the first day with Tracey Piggott but he is an actor & plays up on his "cheeky old man" image too much. He's a seriously unlikeable man & this coupled with the fact that Flemenstar's owner looks like a knob I have no real love for the horse at all. The news that Tony Martin will now train the horse makes me never ever want to see the horse win again! Terrible I know but I cannot stand Martin.

Cart

Motivator wrote: »

I have to disagree with you about Peter Casey, he doesn't come across as a likeable fella at all. I thought he was funny the first day with Tracey Piggott but he is an actor & plays up on his "cheeky old man" image too much. He's a seriously unlikeable man & this coupled with the fact that Flemenstar's owner looks like a knob I have no real love for the horse at all. The news that Tony Martin will now train the horse makes me never ever want to see the horse win again! Terrible I know but I cannot stand Martin.

I second that motivator. Knowing Martin he,l get the horse down to a Galway plate winning mark!

UrbanFret

Casy was more interested in talking about having sex and flirting with tracey piggott than getting on with the job of training the horse and running it over it's best trip. Having said that martin will have his work cut out trying to get it down to a mark where he can win a class 5 at perth!;)

ste2010

UrbanFret wrote: »

Casy was more interested in talking about having sex and flirting with tracey piggott than getting on with the job of training the horse and running it over it's best trip

That's one of the reasons he's a legend :-) where would a 70 yr old man ever get a way with that carry on on national TV..
That aside..I hope we see flemenstar at his best this season. I personally didn't tony Martin credit last year whatsoever. Given what he's done with beneficent alone deserves credit never mind the rest of his horses towards the end if the season. Do I think he's the man for flemenstar..no..my opinion is he will find it difficult to turn flemenstar out each race. He seems to have a skill to prepare them for one or 2 races a year but not throughout the year (I'm not talking about his handicap horses)
Bog warrior and the other gigginstown horse (can't remember the name-won the expensive novice hurdle at punchestown 2 seasons ago) looked like superstars at one stage then there next race the look nothing of the sort..

shy-tall-knight

It is some turnaround from Curran from someone who was prepared to sell half a share of Flemenstar to Alan Potts (after his novice chase season) but then pulled out from the deal as Potts wanted to move the horse from Casey to either Mullins or de Bromhead! That loyalty seems to be gone now anyway

Moro Man

VIZTORIA was way worse imo

shy-tall-knight

Moro Man wrote: »

VIZTORIA was way worse imo

Agreed. Watch out for in the Prix de la Foret though!

kfallon

It's been confirmed by Casey today!

eddiezero

Sad to see.

Whoever was right or wrong in terms of the campaigning of the horse, much of his aura was to do with his inimitable handler who may have come across as a slightly unstable sex addict but who was more than capable of handling a proper horse at the top level.

No different to Tom Foley with his handling of Danoli (minus the lewd remarks of course ). It was the beauty of the national hunt game that the small man could every now and then take on the big guns and beat them.

sting60

Blame Im afraid is with Casey not just because of the sickness but mainly due to tactics.The owner was advised to take the horse out and give it to De Bromhead so the horse going to Martin is surprising but Andy Lynch will keep the ride.

hucklebuck

Seriously bizarre move and I feel for Casey, my take was owner wanted a 3 miler, Casey knew he wasnt one but was made run him none the less.

Henry would have been the smart move imo

Motivator

hucklebuck wrote: »

Seriously bizarre move and I feel for Casey, my take was owner wanted a 3 miler, Casey knew he wasnt one but was made run him none the less.

Henry would have been the smart move imo

Feel for Casey? Why? Do you think de bromhead would let an owner dictate the best route for the horse? Potts knows his stuff obviously & has his own ideas but he has always said de bromhead has the final say. Casey obviously hadn't the balls to stand up to the owner. No sympathy for that clown whatsoever. The horse is the only loser in all this.

eddiezero

Motivator wrote: »

Feel for Casey? Why? Do you think de bromhead would let an owner dictate the best route for the horse? Potts knows his stuff obviously & has his own ideas but he has always said de bromhead has the final say. Casey obviously hadn't the balls to stand up to the owner. No sympathy for that clown whatsoever. The horse is the only loser in all this.

De Bromhead has the final say? Like all the other trainers who trained for him in England?? Potts took his ball and ran off because he didn't like being told what to do by high profile trainers like Henderson & Hobbs.

Henry does what he's told because he would be minus a dozen horses if he didn't play appease the bully.

RichieLawlor

eddiezero wrote: »

De Bromhead has the final say? Like all the other trainers who trained for him in England?? Potts took his ball and ran off because he didn't like being told what to do by high profile trainers like Henderson & Hobbs.

Henry does what he's told because he would be minus a dozen horses if he didn't play appease the bully.

Ya this is right, anyone thinking De Bromhead calls the shots to Alan Potts isn't very smart

hucklebuck

Motivator wrote: »

Feel for Casey? Why? Do you think de bromhead would let an owner dictate the best route for the horse? Potts knows his stuff obviously & has his own ideas but he has always said de bromhead has the final say. Casey obviously hadn't the balls to stand up to the owner. No sympathy for that clown whatsoever. The horse is the only loser in all this.

Because he did nothing wrong, is that hard to understand?

Where did I say Henry would?

If you think you have a top class animal why not send him to a trainer who always has them spot on for the big day and has a serious nack of getting horses to jump well and Flemenstar would probably be his best horse as Sizing rising 12.

I just can't figure out this move at all at all.

Motivator wrote: »

No sympathy for that clown whatsoever

This is on a whole new level of stupid.

What makes Casey a clown:

1) The fact Flemenstar blew people away with two performances last season over his trip
2) The fact that when forced to send the horse over 3 miles twice he was beaten a total of 2 1/2 by 3 horses, Tidal Bay and Sir Des Champs who only had the best 3 miler around in front of them in their biggest races of the season and First Lieutenant who was beaten by the second best chaser around in the Ryanair.
3) The fact he won over €250,000 with the horse

He is a character which is something the game needs more of and is honest to boot and quite frankly anyone calling him a clown is a moron.

JuniorB

Flemenstar out for the season.

hucklebuck

I heard he was schooling and got injured jumping a fence, he banged his head off the barn roof.

Slattsy

hucklebuck wrote: »

I heard he was schooling and got injured jumping a fence, he banged his head off the barn roof.

Month ban!

hucklebuck

Slattsy wrote: »

Month ban!

Yellow card for back seat modding. Your a fierce man for the back seat Slattsy

Slattsy

hucklebuck wrote: »

Yellow card for back seat modding. Your a fierce man for the back seat Slattsy

The good aul days when ya werent allowed sleep over

Slattsy

hucklebuck wrote: »

Yellow card for back seat modding. Your a fierce man for the back seat Slattsy

Also, this is also back seat modding, and as its an accumulation its now a 3 month ban

hucklebuck

Slattsy wrote: »

The good aul days when ya werent allowed sleep over

Where the term "top bunk" was more sinister than in your favourite Babysitters Club books

Slattsy

hucklebuck wrote: »

Where the term "top bunk" was more sinister than in your favourite Babysitters Club books

Was that the one with the blonde twins?

hucklebuck

Slattsy wrote: »

Also, this is also back seat modding, and as its an accumulation its now a 3 month ban

Ditto

hucklebuck

Slattsy wrote: »

Was that the one with the blonde twins?

No that was the film of the same name which had the sinister "top bunk"

Slattsy

hucklebuck wrote: »

No that was the film of the same name which had the sinister "top bunk"

Cant say i seen that film!

hucklebuck

Slattsy wrote: »

Cant say i seen that film!

Check it out

CueCard7

Horse cursed by moving it away.

Would be surprised if we see him win a race again

sirdes

CueCard7 wrote: »

Horse cursed by moving it away.

Would be surprised if we see him win a race again

He was cursed if stayed with Casey

RichieLawlor

sirdes wrote: »

He was cursed if stayed with Casey

Oh yeah of course. Peter Casey ruined Flemenstar :rolleyes: