Helmets - the definitive thread.. ** Mod Note - Please read Opening Post **

tomasrojo

I see from As Easy as Riding a Bike that the scope of this thread may need to be widened.

Researchers recommend cyclists wear body armour in addition to a helmet to reduce the risk of serious injury from crashes and collisions

http://calgary.ctvnews.ca/study-supports-adding-body-armour-to-cycling-safety-gear-1.1446732

Diarmuid

tomasrojo wrote: »

I see from As Easy as Riding a Bike that the scope of this thread may need to be widened.


http://calgary.ctvnews.ca/study-supports-adding-body-armour-to-cycling-safety-gear-1.1446732

Coincidently enough I'm on hols 100km from Calgary and have spent the past 2 weeks in BC and Alberta. I'm planning on checking the official stats on number of cyclists when i get home but based on my anecdotal evidence , it's very low. Anyone have the stats for Canada? They also have a mandatory helmet law althought it doesn't seem to be strongly enforced

tomasrojo

I think BC has an all-ages law. As far as I know, there's no adult law in Ontario. I think some provinces have no law at all. Not sure, and can't look it up now. They definitely don't have a NZ-style blanket ban on helmetless cycing, as that recent paper in the BMJ was based on comparing provinces with different laws.

As for cycling, I think it's similar to the USA. Vancouver has ok rates, despite helmet law.

Capt'n Midnight

fits wrote: »

True. but most falls from horses are also onto softer surfaces and at a lower speed. But there is no doubt that horseriding is more dangerous than leisure biking

...
i don't think they should be made compulsory either but would still like to see more wearing them.

seeing as how dried out soil is about as yielding as concrete and riding a horse on a paved surface is a reasonable use I don't really buy the "softer surfaces" bit. It's like the way that many kids playgrounds in the UK have replaced tarmac with rubbery stuff near the climbing frames.

I think most people know that a riding helmets is not specifically designed for collisions with other vehicles.

My fear is that people pushing the cycling helmet agenda think that cycling helmets offer significant protection for cyclists against traffic.

Iwannahurl

tomasrojo wrote: »

I see from As Easy as Riding a Bike that the scope of this thread may need to be widened.

http://calgary.ctvnews.ca/study-supports-adding-body-armour-to-cycling-safety-gear-1.1446732

Helmet use was not recorded in 85% of cases. 28% of street cyclists in the study were hit by a motor vehicle, 32% "lost balance" or had a "speed-related" accident, and 44.5% "fell off" their bike. Alcohol is recorded as a factor in only 5 cases (2.4%).

Calgary has a fair bit of sprawl, and extends about 50 km north to south. Its modal share for cycle commuting is 0.87% according to this webpage, quoting 2011 census figures.

Dermot Illogical

This afternoon I saw a pedestrian wearing a cycle helmet as he perambulated along Westland Row in Dublin. Such sensible behaviour is to be encouraged imho, as pedestrians can sometimes collide with cars.

Raam

I'm sure this has been discussed before but I'm interested in a lot of recent comments about wearing or not wearing a helmet. It never occurred to me not to wear one but recently I'm picking up a lot of people who seem to have a different view. Why is that? Does wearing a helmet not make it safer if you fall, even a little bit? And those who advocate not wearing one, is it a safety thing or a style thing or a macho man thing or what? Or is there some evidence that a helmet doesnt actually give you any protection or even that wearing one could be dangerous in itself.

I'm not looking to start an argument, just interested in the different views.








































:pac:

magicbastarder

tomasrojo wrote: »

I see from As Easy as Riding a Bike that the scope of this thread may need to be widened.


http://calgary.ctvnews.ca/study-supports-adding-body-armour-to-cycling-safety-gear-1.1446732

http://www.futilitycloset.com/2013/09/11/happy-landings-2/

Seweryn

Raam wrote: »

I'm sure this has been discussed before but I'm interested in a lot of recent comments about wearing or not wearing a helmet. It never occurred to me not to wear one but recently I'm picking up a lot of people who seem to have a different view. Why is that? Does wearing a helmet not make it safer if you fall, even a little bit? And those who advocate not wearing one, is it a safety thing or a style thing or a macho man thing or what? Or is there some evidence that a helmet doesnt actually give you any protection or even that wearing one could be dangerous in itself.

I'm not looking to start an argument, just interested in the different views.

:pac:

It may be the a very same reason as if you lived in Denmark or Holland where 90% of cyclists never had a helmet on their heads, they would never think to wear one. Why bother?

Raam

Does wearing a helmet make an injury less likely if you fall? Probably

Does wearing a helmet make it more likely you will crash? Possibly

Is the overall risk of injury more or less with a helmet? Unclear

Is compulsory helmet wearing a barrier to cycling participation? Definitely

Does this reduce the number of cyclists on the road, and lessen their safety? Definitely

Should helmet wearing be compulsory? No

Should freeloading hippie cyclists pay road tax? It's a disgrace, Joe!

monkeybutter

Seweryn wrote: »

It may be the a very same reason as if you lived in Denmark or Holland where 90% of cyclists never had a helmet on their heads, they would never think to wear one. Why bother?

do either of you wear helmet?

doozerie

Raam wrote:

Does wearing a helmet make an injury less likely if you fall? Probably

I'd answer "possibly" to that one personally. An opinion on that is obviously entirely subjective though, which I think is at the heart of a lot of the animosity that arises when this is discussed. My own view is that there are so many variables involved in any fall that it's impossible to be any more definitive than answering with "possibly" when gauging (guessing) the likelihood or not of a head injury.

Rationale tends to go quickly out the window though shortly after potential injury is mentioned. Once people start citing instances of severe head injury, as they so often do, the debate gets twisted into one of "You don't wear a helmet because you clearly *want* to die! Why do you want to die???", which can go nowhere.

Fear seems to fuel many of the arguments in this debate, and fear is insidious and contagious. You dwell on the risks of anything long enough and you'll start to question how you ever considered doing many routine things without going through a comprehensive list of safety checks first. Take walking down stairs as one example, many people happily walk down stairs without holding onto a handrail and will have done so for years, but get enough people to recount instances of themselves or others falling down some steps and suffering a serious injury, and pretty soon the people who don't use a handrail routinely will be seen as somehow reckless or stupid. Fear and logic seem mutually exclusive quite often.

Raam

I'm very happy that in this country we can choose for ourselves whether to wear the helmet or not. Me personally, I always will, for various reasons.

I only tell other people to make their own decision for themselves

Seweryn

monkeybutter wrote: »

do either of you wear helmet?

Me? On occasion, yes. But usually I do not. If I was always to wear a helmet on the bike I feel I should consider wearing it while doing many other riskier tasks, like driving for example.

monkeybutter

Seweryn wrote: »

Me? On occasion, yes. But usually I do not. If I was always to wear a helmet on the bike I feel I should consider wearing it while doing many other riskier tasks, like driving for example.

on what occasions do you wear a helmet then?

Seweryn

monkeybutter wrote: »

on what occasions do you wear a helmet then?

On Charity Sportives for example.

monkeybutter

Seweryn wrote: »

Me? On occasion, yes. But usually I do not. If I was always to wear a helmet on the bike I feel I should consider wearing it while doing many other riskier tasks, like driving for example.

If you drove a car would you chose one with abs, seat belts and air bags or one without any of these?

Dermot Illogical

monkeybutter wrote: »

If you drove a car would you chose one with abs, seat belts and air bags or one without any of these?

And with boring predictability we reach our destination.

monkeybutter

Dermot Illogical wrote: »

And with boring predictability we reach our destination.

Valuable input there Dermo

Seweryn

monkeybutter wrote: »

If you drove a car would you chose one with abs, seat belts and air bags or one without any of these?

I wouldn't choose a car based on its safety features. I would choose driving with care though.

Dermot Illogical

monkeybutter wrote: »

Valuable input there Dermo

A bit more to the point than a series of seemingly innocuous questions designed to corner someone into coming around to your POV though.

You have to admit you were being a tad obvious...

monkeybutter

Just trying to see the logic behind not wearing one.

Sometimes during the summer when it's hot I will not wear one.

But I have never come up with a logical reason not to wear one the rest of the year other than I don't feel like it or they look gay or I didn't want to have to bring one around after locking the bike up somewhere.

monkeybutter

Dermot Illogical wrote: »

A bit more to the point than a series of seemingly innocuous questions designed to corner someone into coming around to your POV though.

You have to admit you were being a tad obvious...

Nah, I want to see his point of view. Do you have a point of view yourself there?

monkeybutter

Seweryn wrote: »

I wouldn't choose a car based on its safety features. I would choose driving with care though.

Would you choose the same car with optional safety features or without?

monument

monkeybutter wrote: »

If you drove a car would you chose one with abs, seat belts and air bags or one without any of these?

When/if you walk around do you choose to wear all the safety gear available? High-vis? Helmets? Knee pads? Etc

doozerie

Raam wrote: »

I only tell other people to make their own decision for themselves

That's my approach too, I think it's entirely up to each individual to make their own decision as to whether to wear one or not. I'm certainly in no position to dictate to anyone what they should do as the logic that I apply myself to helmets is questionable - for example:

* I always wear a helmet when I go for a long-ish spin on the bike. This is despite the fact that my non-commute rides are typically faster than my commute rides, and usually involving hilly routes, and therefore at a speed where I remain unconvinced of the ability of the helmet to help a whole lot in a crash. I wear it out of habit partly, as I'm obliged to wear one for club rides and the like, and partly out of paranoia too as it's been so long since I've done a lengthy ride without one that I'd likely find myself constantly thinking "this is the day I'll need it" if i didn't wear it.

* I usually wear a helmet when commuting. This is despite the fact that a collision on my commute is quite likely to involve a motor vehicle, in which circumstances I'm not convinced the helmet will help much if at all. Here too I'm motivated by habit, as once I started to wear a helmet years back I started to wear it for all cycling activity, and I'm motivated by pure paranoia too.

* I sometimes don't wear a helmet when commuting, during the recent warm spell being one example. It felt odd for the first few days in a while of being helmet-less, I think I made an even greater effort to be aware of my surroundings as I felt bizarrely (by my logic) more vulnerable, but it quickly felt natural and I've even lived to tell the tale after after several weeks.

I cycled for years without a helmet, on-road and off-road, without any notable head injuries (a few hand injuries though) so on that basis I've no reason to be paranoid when not wearing a helmet, but I'm as susceptible to the irrational "what if" fear as anyone else. I try not to let that fear cloud my judgement and influence my opinions when debating about helmets though, and that approach is all that I can encourage others to adopt too as I certainly can't try to convince people to actually wear a helmet, or not, if I can't convince myself one way or the other.

Funnily enough, I drove out to a club league race a few weeks back. It proved to be a fast race in which a group of 10 of us pushed ourselves hard to stay away. It had many of the elements to make it a risky environment - speed, numbers, constant up and overs, riders tiring from the constant effort - yet not once did I feel in danger of any kind of collision or fall. By contrast, the drive home along the M3 and the M50 was riddled with cars tailgating, pulling in on top of me, cutting across multiple lanes seemingly without looking, etc. The bike race felt safe, the car journey felt dangerous, I was arguably in greater need of the helmet in the car that day.

monkeybutter

monument wrote: »

When/if you walk around do you choose to wear all the safety gear available? High-vis? Helmets? Knee pads? Etc

are there helmets designed for walking? I didn't know, Knee pads would impede my walking so no, sometimes high-viz yeah.

doozerie

monkeybutter wrote:

Sometimes during the summer when it's hot I will not wear one.

monkeybutter wrote:

If you drove a car would you chose one with abs, seat belts and air bags or one without any of these?

Well, would/did you?

monkeybutter

doozerie wrote: »

Well, would/did you?

I wouldn't choose a car without abs, seat belts etc.

If it's hot I will sometimes go for the cooler option yeah. I'm choosing comfort. On a day like today I'd go with a helmet.

monument

monkeybutter wrote: »

are there helmets designed for walking? I didn't know, Knee pads would impede my walking so no, sometimes high-viz yeah.

Yes, bicycle helmets will work just fine when walking -- if I recall correctly most or many are tested under walking conditions.

Why don't you always wear high-vis? You don't know when it could save you!