Helmets - the definitive thread.. ** Mod Note - Please read Opening Post **

galwaycyclist

Out of interest is Sir Brad sponsored by any helmet companies or by anyone who sells helmets or cycling paraphernalia generally?

CramCycle

Did wiggo not have his kid beside him at the end of le tour last year cycling sans helmet.

Congrats Sir Brad, apparently you think your kid deserves it :pac:

Captain Havoc

galwaycyclist wrote: »

Out of interest is Sir Brad sponsored by any helmet companies or by anyone who sells helmets or cycling paraphernalia generally?

I would imagine Sky would be, they probably wouldn't be too happy if he said helmets are bad.

enas

Captain Havoc wrote: »

I would imagine Sky would be, they probably wouldn't be too happy if he said helmets are bad.

He could however refrain from any comment on the subject. As most pro riders do. So the question of possible conflict of interest is a valid one.

Chips Lovell

Pretty much every pro cyclist would have a helmet sponsor.

Mind you, in Wiggo's case, I doubt Kask are pushing him to lobby for compulsory helmets. They're a specialist in high end stuff and their cheapest model is around €150. I can't imagine Kask cleaning up if they were made compulsory in Britain.

I expect it's more him shooting his mouth off.

Crippens1

CramCycle

"Finally someone wearing a helmet at the speed and conditions under which it was tested and a[[roved"

Beasty

... actually I've been attempting to use rollers for the first time, and based on my initial experiences I may need to think about wearing a helmet ...

Iwannahurl

I saw a gent on his bike recently, wearing his helmet backwards. Very odd -- like something Johnny Bravo would need to accommodate his pompadour.

Having searched Google for a photo of the phenomenon, I have formed the conclusion (based on three minutes research) that it is a not uncommon sight among triathletes.

galwaycyclist

Just dropped in my mailbox

It appears that there is another study that has confirmed that motorists give less space to cyclists who wear special cycling clothes.

http://bikesd.org/2011/10/florida-dot-study-reconfirms-ian-walkers-conclusions/

Report here

http://www.trafficsafetycoalition.com/public_ftp/FDOT_BDK82_977-01_rpt.pdf

Motorists provided 0.5 ft additional lateral separation to female bicyclists and 0.35 ft additional separation to casually dressed compared to athletically dressed cyclists

Although the word helmet is not mentioned in text I would suspect that - being the USA - all the test cyclists were using them.

I haven't read it yet myself it looks like there lots of other interesting stuff on lane widths and road position for cyclists.

rp

And now even Angie Merkel is speaking out against helmet compulsion: http://www.bikebiz.com/news/read/angela-merkel-opens-eurobike/015300

Iwannahurl

galwaycyclist wrote: »

Just dropped in my mailbox

It appears that there is another study that has confirmed that motorists give less space to cyclists who wear special cycling clothes.

http://bikesd.org/2011/10/florida-dot-study-reconfirms-ian-walkers-conclusions/

Report here

http://www.trafficsafetycoalition.com/public_ftp/FDOT_BDK82_977-01_rpt.pdf

Although the word helmet is not mentioned in text I would suspect that - being the USA - all the test cyclists were using them.

I haven't read it yet myself it looks like there lots of other interesting stuff on lane widths and road position for cyclists.

All of the cyclists shown in the photos are wearing helmets. It's not clear to me whether the cyclists in the photos are "casually dressed" or "athletically dressed", but perhaps that may be more obvious to Americans.

It could be the case that helmets are taken as a given by the researchers, and that they wouldn't countenance having a helmetless control group, more's the pity.

galwaycyclist

Iwannahurl wrote: »

It could be the case that helmets are taken as a given by the researchers, and that they wouldn't countenance having a helmetless control group, more's the pity.

If they had a group of unhelmeted controls then probably that component would be considered "unpublishable" in the US.

When the US Federal Highways Authority uses pictures of European cyclists in its reports they have cigarette pack type warnings pointing out that some of the cyclists in the photos are not wearing helmets.

enas

galwaycyclist wrote: »

When the US Federal Highways Authority uses pictures of European cyclists in its reports they have cigarette pack type warnings pointing out that some of the cyclists in the photos are not wearing helmets.

My reaction to it is, WTF!!! Can you find us some examples?

Iwannahurl

I know what you mean: http://www.fhwa.dot.gov/publications/research/safety/pedbike/05085/chapt23.cfm

BTW, I was browsing some material recently on traffic and transportation in Delaware. One snippet I found was that Delaware was somehow voted the fifth most cycle-friendly state in 2012. AFAIK their modal share for cycling is around 1%, and in 2012 one-third of their road fatalities were cyclists and pedestrians.

Henlars67

The first day I ever wore a helmet I came off my bike landing head first.

It definitely saved me a serious injury.

I was 11 at the time and my mother had just bought it the day before and forced me to wear it, much to my disgust.

I've always worn one since.

Iwannahurl

Henlars67 wrote: »

The first day I ever wore a helmet I came off my bike landing head first.

It definitely saved me a serious injury.

I was 11 at the time and my mother had just bought it the day before and forced me to wear it, much to my disgust.

I've always worn one since.

My daughter, who's almost 4, was inclined to fall off her (stabilised) bike for no good reason, so I always insist that she wears a helmet.

I have her on a balance bike now, and a couple of months I ago I found her playing a new game. She was whizzing down the hill and deliberately crashing into the doorstep. I told her not to be doing that, as she could hurt herself. She replied "it's OK, I have my helmet on." Not yet four, and she has already internalised the concept of risk compensation.

Iwannahurl

Iwannahurl wrote: »

My daughter, who's almost 4, was inclined to fall off her (stabilised) bike for no good reason, so I always insist that she wears a helmet.

I have her on a balance bike now, and a couple of months I ago I found her playing a new game. She was whizzing down the hill and deliberately crashing into the doorstep. I told her not to be doing that, as she could hurt herself. She replied "it's OK, I have my helmet on." Not yet four, and she has already internalised the concept of risk compensation.

You need to give her the concept of "broken helmet= no helmet" and "no helmet = no bike."

check_six

Deleted User wrote: »

You need to give her the concept of "broken helmet= no helmet" and "no helmet = no bike."

Might not be the point Iwannahurl is getting at.
Child is thinking Helmet=Indestructible. This is not beneficial to safe cycling.

magicbastarder

check_six wrote: »

Child is thinking Helmet=Indestructible. This is not beneficial to safe cycling.

eh, she's 3 years old.
with all due respect to iwannahurl, she's not going to be a paragon of logic. it doesn't exactly inform the debate at hand.

doozerie

magicbastarder wrote: »

eh, she's 3 years old.
with all due respect to iwannahurl, she's not going to be a paragon of logic. it doesn't exactly inform the debate at hand.

I think that check_six was responding to a post by someone I presume is an adult seeming to argue that a child should not cycle a bike without a helmet. Which is probably quite a commonly held viewpoint, and one of the reasons why a thread such as this exists. Not all adults are paragons of logic either but they probably do feel that they inform the debate. Somehow.

Iwannahurl

magicbastarder wrote: »

eh, she's 3 years old.
with all due respect to iwannahurl, she's not going to be a paragon of logic. it doesn't exactly inform the debate at hand.

Human beings are not paragons of logic. Have you noticed the state of the planet recently?

Risk compensation effects, along with the 'law of unintended consequences', complicate fallible human efforts at reducing harm.

I put a helmet on my 3-year-old because I wanted to protect her from her tendency to fall off her 'stabilised' bike* for no apparent reason, e.g. while almost stationary on a seemingly level footpath. Despite my knowledge of the risk compensation phenomenon, I could not anticipate that this would, in a matter of months, result in her deliberately crashing her balance bike in the belief that it was OK to do so with her helmet on.

For examples of risk compensation in action, do a Google search for "locker boxing" and "helmet fighting".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jSUf7QFG4Gs

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bk4QaZ-RFro

*EDIT: the thought occurs that stabilisers themselves have unintended consequences. Despite her 'door-stepping' tendencies, my daughter's cycling skills have actually improved since switching to a balance bike.

CramCycle

I am getting a babyseat for my bike in the near future and plan to start bringing my new born around.

The seat has side panels that come up higher than the babys head.

I have no intention of putting a helmet on the child's head as I am concerned about the risk to the constant weight on a young child's neck which I think (with no proof) outweighs the risk of damage in an accident that may never happen.

Are their any studies about the effects of the increased weight on a young child's neck?

buffalo

From http://www.irishtimes.com/news/education/move-from-current-religious-instruction-in-catholic-schools-may-begin-by-2014-1.1510094

Anyone else fancy starting a pool on when the first letter decrying the lack of a helmet on the father will be published? Tomorrow or Monday? Will Ultan Ó Broin be the author!?

Chips Lovell

Never mind the helmets, how come they are cycling so close to the seafront and not one of them is wearing a life jacket?

doozerie

CramCycle wrote: »

I am getting a babyseat for my bike in the near future and plan to start bringing my new born around.

The seat has side panels that come up higher than the babys head.

I have no intention of putting a helmet on the child's head as I am concerned about the risk to the constant weight on a young child's neck which I think (with no proof) outweighs the risk of damage in an accident that may never happen.

Are their any studies about the effects of the increased weight on a young child's neck?

I'm not sure about the existence of studies but another concern would be that the back of a helmet would be fouled by the back of the seat thereby forcing the child's head forward and tilted down. That's one of the problems you sometimes see in photos of kids wearing helmets in child trailers and I imagine various of the babyseats for bikes would be subject to it too.

One thing that I'd strongly recommend is getting a decent bike stand for your bike, if you don't have one already. When attaching a bike to our child trailer it makes life a lot easier when the bike isn't prone to falling over at the slightest movement of the trailer, and I'd expect the benefits to be even greater when putting a child into a child seat on the bike.

buffalo

Saw a real live human being cycling on Monday with his helmet on backwards, nearly forgot. I was so stunned that it happens outside of political photocalls that I didn't manage to ask him if he found the straps cutting into his forehead uncomfortable at all.

RayCun

buffalo wrote: »

Anyone else fancy starting a pool on when the first letter decrying the lack of a helmet on the father will be published? Tomorrow or Monday? Will Ultan Ó Broin be the author!?

But seriously, if you think helmets are useful and your children should wear them, why not wear one yourself? If you don't think it's important, neither will your kids.
(and if you think they're pointless and ineffective, why would you tell your kids to wear them?)

Chips Lovell

buffalo wrote: »

Saw a real live human being cycling on Monday with his helmet on backwards, nearly forgot. I was so stunned that it happens outside of political photocalls that I didn't manage to ask him if he found the straps cutting into his forehead uncomfortable at all.

Seen it a few times commuting. Always prompts a double take.

CramCycle

buffalo wrote: »

Anyone else fancy starting a pool on when the first letter decrying the lack of a helmet on the father will be published? Tomorrow or Monday? Will Ultan Ó Broin be the author!?

Monday edition