HMV are back :D

liddypool · 13-09-2013 2:32am

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Again, they did not know the stores would be closing and had hoped that the profits over Christmas would offset their loses. HMV never said gift cards would not be honoured. They suspended but always said that soon as things were back to normal they would once again start accepting them. The problem was that far too many scumbags thought resorting to theft was acceptable.

That's just plain wrong.senior management would have been aware at least a month before that it was closing and if they didn't what in God's name were they being paid for.your argument is that when it's white collar crime such as a shop stealing people's money through non-redeemable vouchers then that's perfectly acceptable,let's hide behind company law but when consumers take goods that remember were paid for then they're scumbags.The public aren't fools they know who the real scumbags are HMV conning people out of their Christmas savings and they weren't having it.

13-09-2013 2:34am

liddypool wrote: »

seriously did you really expect people to wait a few more days when the dogs in the street knew the place was closing as did management.no wonder nobody believed them.taking money for goods not provided is theft.taking back what's rightfully yours is justice.they thought they could pull a fast one and to use a quote from the movie Machete, they f***ked with the wrong mexicans.

Let me explain it agai. HMV Ireland had no plans to cease trading. They planned to look for a new buyer while they kept on trading. Just like what happened in the UK. The decision to close doors was made when scum started stealing. A decision was then made to cease trading and seek a buyer as the management didn't want to keep trading if it meant staff had to deal with thieving scum. Had people not started stealing then there's every chance that within a few days the giftcards would have once again been accepted and we wouldn't now be in a position where the majority of stores are shut. The people who went in and stole are the same kind of people who when they see a pricing mistake online will abuse it before taking yo Joe Duffy yo cry about a disgrace it is that the company refused to honour the 20 7" Lcd TVs they ordered.

13-09-2013 2:40am

liddypool wrote: »

That's just plain wrong.senior management would have been aware at least a month before that it was closing and if they didn't what in God's name were they being paid for.your argument is that when it's white collar crime such as a shop stealing people's money through non-redeemable vouchers then that's perfectly acceptable,let's hide behind company law but when consumers take goods that remember were paid for then they're scumbags.The public aren't fools they know who the real scumbags are HMV conning people out of their Christmas savings and they weren't having it.

I'm assuming that you were one of those who stole or you know someone who did and feel the need to justify it. Management were aware that the company was in trouble, it was hardly a secret but they had no plans to close stores. The decision to close stores was yo stop people stealing. Closing stores hurt HMV Ireland and made it a far less enticing buy for prospect buyers

Banjo · 13-09-2013 1:11pm

Hey, let's not paint HMV Ireland as the victims here. When HMV UK went into receivership, HMV Ireland stopped accepting gift cards - this was before the Irish operation was in receivership, they are distinct business entities and when they refused the cards - if questioned - they claimed that they were in receivership and refused to acknowledged the fact that they weren't. Does that make stealing from them right? No. But don't ask me to feel sorry for the bastards who stopped me from getting Lego Batman 2!

Star Lord · 13-09-2013 1:16pm

Banjo wrote: »

When HMV UK went into receivership, HMV Ireland stopped accepting gift cards - this was before the Irish operation was in receivership, they are distinct business entities and when they refused the cards - if questioned - they claimed that they were in receivership and refused to acknowledged the fact that they weren't.

As the gift cards all worked off the same system though they could not use the system as it had been suspended. That's the issue here. They didn't stop accepting the gift cards out of spite or because they thought they could make a quick buck, they simply couldn't accept them.

johnny_ultimate · 13-09-2013 1:37pm

Make no mistake: I personally have absolute sympathy for those who were left in the lurch, especially those with gift vouchers of larger amounts. But I also have absolute sympathy for the staff who, facing imminent job losses, had to deal with people coming in and walking out of the shop. Whether we agree that was the right course for the customers is almost beside the point: 90% of more people who lost their jobs had nothing to do with the gift voucher policy, and a business cannot operate in an 'anything goes' atmosphere.

I also don't think people walking out with goods was crazy widespread as some might suggest - probably a handful of incidents at most stores. It was hardly the sole factor determining the closure of the stores. But, regrettably, the actions of the few had wider repercussions. The negative media attention was hugely damaging, while the threat of more widespread antics of the sort would surely have factored into the administrators decision to suspend trading entirely. If Hilco had not decided to definitely close the stores, well then the anarchy that ensued over those couple of days certainly assisted in the decision. It was not worth the headache.

In a way, the whole thing was like a miniature scale run on the bank. The decision to not accept vouchers was a very troublesome and unwise one, but the panicked reactions of a handful of customers completely only exasperated what was already a challenging situation.

Kirby · 13-09-2013 1:43pm

Taking stock to the value of a gift card is not stealing. It's been paid for. You might argue about the technical legalities of such a thing, but there is a difference between what is legal and what is fair. Laws change and fluctuate but fairness and morality is a constant.

I didn't do it and know nobody who did but I have zero problem with people standing up for themselves for once.....and take exception to them being called "scumbags".

The scumbags are the executives who made the calculated decision to still take money at Christmas for gift cards....knowing full well that they wouldn't honour them. The writing was on the wall and trying to justify it by saying "Oh well they hoped to continue trading and wait for a buyer" doesn't wash. It's a gamble and they tried to do it with average punters money.

If you examine what has happened to this country over the last five years, it's eminently clear that we are a very passive nation. Be it stealth taxes and massive bailouts to undeserving industries....we just sit and grumble and do nothing about it.

Now HMV aren't responsible for any of that but their attempt to take customers for a ride and those few customers fighting back was a good thing. I for one am fed up with corporations ice skating their way out of trouble and the every man having to pay for it. HMV have nobody to blame but themselves for the mess they made.

dmcg90 · 13-09-2013 2:00pm

Richard Dower wrote: »

^ exactly!.....people acted the way they did because of how HMV handled things, they deliberately waited until after Xmas to declare....they knew they'd get giftcard cash, they didnt pay wages.

How do you know they waited deliberately?

Richard Dower wrote: »

People were outraged, in terms of creditors customers are last on the list, they would never see a penny....they took matters into their own hands.

By breaking the law and stealing stock. I can't excuse that!

Skerries · 13-09-2013 6:36pm

if they left the card behind and only took stock to the value of the credit on the card then they had paid for the goods in full the same as if they had left money on the counter

cloud493 · 13-09-2013 7:49pm

Was this theft that widespread? I only recall the well publicised one of that grandad from the shop on grafton street.

13-09-2013 7:52pm

cloud493 wrote: »

Was this theft that widespread? I only recall the well publicised one of that grandad from the shop on grafton street.

From what I was told by HMV employees, there were a number of incidents and it became more common after all the stories about the Limerick guy. The decision to close the doors was made as they feared that it would become far more common and it simply wasn't worth the risk.

Richard Dower · 13-09-2013 8:12pm

Kirby wrote: »

Taking stock to the value of a gift card is not stealing. It's been paid for. You might argue about the technical legalities of such a thing, but there is a difference between what is legal and what is fair. Laws change and fluctuate but fairness and morality is a constant.

I didn't do it and know nobody who did but I have zero problem with people standing up for themselves for once.....and take exception to them being called "scumbags".

The scumbags are the executives who made the calculated decision to still take money at Christmas for gift cards....knowing full well that they wouldn't honour them. The writing was on the wall and trying to justify it by saying "Oh well they hoped to continue trading and wait for a buyer" doesn't wash. It's a gamble and they tried to do it with average punters money.

If you examine what has happened to this country over the last five years, it's eminently clear that we are a very passive nation. Be it stealth taxes and massive bailouts to undeserving industries....we just sit and grumble and do nothing about it.

Now HMV aren't responsible for any of that but their attempt to take customers for a ride and those few customers fighting back was a good thing. I for one am fed up with corporations ice skating their way out of trouble and the every man having to pay for it. HMV have nobody to blame but themselves for the mess they made.

HERE HERE!.....BRAVO!....well said Sir!

Richard Dower · 13-09-2013 8:17pm

dmcg90 wrote: »

How do you know they waited deliberately?

By breaking the law and stealing stock. I can't excuse that!

It wasnt stealing, :rolleyes: .....they had fecking giftcards to the value of the stock they took. I'd say only a small handful took more then the giftcard value.

If 10 year old Jonny got a 30 euro giftcard off his uncle...was in floods of tears, uncle Jim marched down to HMV and picked up *** game worth 30 quid...slapped the voucher on the counter and walked out.

That was the typical scenario.....not scumbags taking hundreads in stock for a tenner giftcard :rolleyes:

Richard Dower · 13-09-2013 8:20pm

Deleted User wrote: »

From what I was told by HMV employees, there were a number of incidents and it became more common after all the stories about the Limerick guy. The decision to close the doors was made as they feared that it would become far more common and it simply wasn't worth the risk.

Risk of what?....consumers getting stock to the value that had already been paid for?

You and HMV were thinking widespread looting.....why was/is total nonsense!

We're not that kinda of society...we're not Americans! [New Orleans anyone?]

Richard Dower · 13-09-2013 8:26pm

cloud493 wrote: »

Was this theft that widespread? I only recall the well publicised one of that grandad from the shop on grafton street.

It wasn't....Dont listen to Darko or the Indo or god forbid...The Sun!
Lets examine WHAT HAPPENED!....UK goes in receivership, the Irish cosumer ombusman issued a statement saying that under Irish consumer law HMV Ireland *must* honour the vouchers.

Next day...the announce receivership, and *then* say vouchers wont be honoured....NOT ON THE FIRST DAY!!

On the first day they said NOTHING about vouchers until consumers started asking questions, the media + ombusman picked up on it - next day the say we're going into receivership.

Consumers outraged - handful take matters into there own hands, the next day they close the doors, to prevent more people from rightfully getting stock to the value of goods already paid for.

13-09-2013 8:26pm

Richard Dower wrote: »

Risk of what?....consumers getting stock to the value that had already been paid for?

You and HMV were thinking widespread looting.....why was/is total nonsense!

We're not that kinda of society...we're not Americans! [New Orleans anyone?]

They weren't thinking looting, they were thinking that if product started walking out of the shop by giftcard holders then their troubles would only get worse. It was a pretty crap situation for everyone but they were trying their best to sort it out and had people a little patience it may have worked out well for everyone. Do people really believe that giftcard holders willing to take stock and walk out were really only going to take the value if the card?

Richard Dower · 13-09-2013 8:33pm

Deleted User wrote: »

They weren't thinking looting, they were thinking that if product started walking out of the shop by giftcard holders then their troubles would only get worse. It was a pretty crap situation for everyone but they were trying their best to sort it out and had people a little patience it may have worked out well for everyone. Do people really believe that giftcard holders willing to take stock and walk out were really only going to take the value if the card?

Read post above...HMV moved the goalposts on giftcards on day 2...they only wentt into receivership when the ombusman said they must honour giftcards.....end of.

Richard Dower · 13-09-2013 8:36pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Do people really believe that giftcard holders willing to take stock and walk out were really only going to take the value if the card?

HMV think Irish people are theives then?....people are not stupid, they knew if they took more then the value of the giftcard that was theft. They could be imprisoned for that.

People took giftcard value only knowing *if* it went to court no jury would convict them.

13-09-2013 8:37pm

Richard Dower wrote: »

It wasn't....Dont listen to Darko or the Indo or god forbid...The Sun!
Lets examine WHAT HAPPENED!....UK goes in receivership, the Irish cosumer ombusman issued a statement saying that under Irish consumer law HMV Ireland *must* honour the vouchers.

Next day...the announce receivership, and *then* say vouchers wont be honoured....NOT ON THE FIRST DAY!!

On the first day they said NOTHING about vouchers until consumers started asking questions, the media + ombusman picked up on it - next day the say we're going into receivership.

Consumers outraged - handful take matters into there own hands, the next day they close the doors, to prevent more people from rightfully getting stock to the value of goods already paid for.

HMV Ireland went into receivership with the plan to continue trading till such a time as a new owner could be found. The gift voucher situation was one
that was unfortunate and initially HMV took the decision not to accept them, this is because it's believed that both the UK and Irish voucher systems was linked. This makes sense given that you could use a UK bought card in Ireland and an Irish bought card in the UK. It was always said that it was only temporary and that gift vouchers would be accepted asap.

Also I think that if you want to blame someone for the whole gift card debacle then you should be looking at the administrators, Deloitte and not at the HMV management. It was Deloitte who made the decision not to honour the gift cards and not in fact HMV who had always planned on honouring the cards when they were able to.

13-09-2013 8:42pm

Richard Dower wrote: »

HMV think Irish people are theives then?....people are not stupid, they knew if they took more then the value of the giftcard that was theft. They could be imprisoned for that.

People took giftcard value only knowing *if* it went to court no jury would convict them.

Here's the thing though. With the gift card system not working how were HMV staff to know what the value on the card was. Someone could easily walk out with 300 euro worth of stuff and only have 15 euro on their card. It's not like the people stealing items were taking the time to clear it with the staff.

It's clear that you think HMV are some evil corporation out to screw the little people of Ireland but that wasn't the case. They were fully behind keeping the irish operation up and running but the over reaction by Irish people over the gift cards and subsequent thefts resulted in the shops closing down. It was no secret that HMV were in trouble and anyone who got a giftcard for Christmas and didn't use it asap was an idiot. I got a few HMV giftcards on December 25th and they were used up a few days later.

Richard Dower · 13-09-2013 8:45pm

Then HMV and Deloitte are responsible.....not average Irish consumer, who rightly felt like they were being given the shaft, and had enough of being ripped off again and again and for ONCE stood up to "the man".

13-09-2013 8:49pm

Richard Dower wrote: »

Then HMV and Deloitte are responsible.....not average Irish consumer, who rightly felt like they were being given the shaft, and had enough of being ripped off again and again and for ONCE stood up to "the man".

Jesus but do you really believe the nonsense you are spouting. The people so enraged by what was happening and resorted to theft are the same idiots who when they see a 50" LCD Tv for 10 euro will buy 50. Everyone knows that it's an obvious misprice but when the 50 TVs don't arrive they get onto Joe Duffy and start facebook campaigns.

Consumers weren't being given the shaft. It was made clear that giftcards would be honoured when everything had settled but a number of dicks felt that that wasn't good enough and decided that theft was the way to go. Standing up to the man just sounds like the kind of juvenile crap that a 12 year old shouts when he refuses to go to bed.

The situation was ideal for no one involved and I'm not trying to defend HMV as their handling of the situation left a lot to be desired but they're not guilty of half what people like you accuse them of. I wonder Richard if you will be boycotting the newly opening HMV stores so that you can continue to put it to the "man"?

Out of curiosity, why is it that you and others weren't as outraged when Game closed down and left thousands of people with useless giftcards?

Richard Dower · 13-09-2013 8:50pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Here's the thing though. With the gift card system not working how were HMV staff to know what the value on the card was. Someone could easily walk out with 300 euro worth of stuff and only have 15 euro on their card. It's not like the people stealing items were taking the time to clear it with the staff.

It's clear that you think HMV are some evil corporation out to screw the little people of Ireland but that wasn't the case. They were fully behind keeping the irish operation up and running but the over reaction by Irish people over the gift cards and subsequent thefts resulted in the shops closing down. It was no secret that HMV were in trouble and anyone who got a giftcard for Christmas and didn't use it asap was an idiot. I got a few HMV giftcards on December 25th and they were used up a few days later.

I beg to differ....i think very few people knew of HMv's problems, the closure was a shock to most. As for the rest....again you're saying we're theives, that we'd did and would take more then people knew the value of the giftcard was.

I think you're wrong...i have more faith in people then that, did some take more then the value of a giftcard?...sure, but very few. And as you say these so called staff you spoke too.....how did they know people took more then the giftcard value if the giftcard computer system was down?

Richard Dower · 13-09-2013 8:53pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Jesus but do you really believe the nonsense you are spouting. The people so enraged by what was happening and resorted to theft are the same idiots who when they see a 50" LCD Tv for 10 euro will buy 50. Everyone knows that it's an obvious misprice but when the 50 TVs don't arrive they get onto Joe Duffy and start facebook campaigns.

Consumers weren't being given the shaft. It was made clear that giftcards would be honoured when everything had settled but a number of dicks felt that that wasn't good enough and decided that theft was the way to go. Standing up to the man just sounds like the kind of juvenile crap that a 12 year old shouts when he refuses to go to bed.

The situation was ideal for no one involved and I'm not trying to defend HMV as their handling of the situation left a lot to be desired but they're not guilty of half what people like you accuse them of. I wonder Richard if you will be boycotting the newly opening HMV stores so that you can continue to put it to the "man"?

Out of curiosity, why is it that you and others weren't as outraged when Game closed down and left thousands of people with useless giftcards?

When everything was settled they would honour them?....lol, people didnt belive HMV and rightly so!....there is NO evidence if HMV went out of recievership they would or HAD to under receivership laws honour giftcards.

Richard Dower · 13-09-2013 8:55pm

Deleted User wrote: »

I wonder Richard if you will be boycotting the newly opening HMV stores so that you can continue to put it to the "man"?

I have no intention of buying anything from HMV ever again....there prices are crap anyways!

13-09-2013 8:55pm

Richard Dower wrote: »

I beg to differ....i think very few people knew of HMv's problems, the closure was a shock to most. As for the rest....again you're saying we're theives, that we'd did and would take more then people knew the value of the giftcard was.

I think you're wrong...i have more faith in people then that, did some take more then the value of a giftcard?...sure, but very few. And as you say these so called staff you spoke too.....how did they know people took more then the giftcard value if the giftcard computer system was down?

So you were one of the people who walked into a store and took stock without paying for it. Did the stock you walked off with come to the price of the card? I'm assuming that you would make sure that it wasn't less the value on teh card as that would mean that HMV were winning.

The staff I spoke to know the stock taken was more because in many cases the person would try to use the card first. One man that tried to use the card showed a receipt showing that there was 15 euro left on the card and when he was told that the card was not accepted he took the Sopranos box set off of the counter and walked off. And let's be honest here, if someone is willing to walk into a shop and walk off with products I don't see them being the most honourable of people.

13-09-2013 9:00pm

Richard Dower wrote: »

When everything was settled they would honour them?....lol, people didnt belive HMV and rightly so!....there is NO evidence if HMV went out of recievership they would or HAD to under receivership laws honour giftcards.

There was also no evidence that they would not honour them. Yet surprisingly enough the first thing the new owners did was state that they would honour the existing gift cards.

Richard Dower wrote: »

I have no intention of buying anything from HMV ever again....there prices are crap anyways!

Oh year HMV and their crap prices. Ridiculous that their games were always 5-10 euro cheaper than gamestop on release day and that their new release Blu-Rays were 9 times out of 10 inline with amazons or cheaper. Then they had those rip off offers, you know the ones where two new release CDs were only 16 euro or a number of new release DVDs for about the same as one in Tesco. They really did have crap prices and it's great to see amazon making such an effort to keep pricing down, what with their prices for older Blu-Rays in many cases being 4 pound more than what HMV charged for it here on release day. Then you have amazon with their wonderful preorder prices of 30 pound for some major releases such as the Wicker Man or charging 6 pound more than HMV are charging for the arrow releases.

Richard Dower · 13-09-2013 9:01pm

Deleted User wrote: »

So you were one of the people who walked into a store and took stock without paying for it. Did the stock you walked off with come to the price of the card? I'm assuming that you would make sure that it wasn't less the value on teh card as that would mean that HMV were winning.

The staff I spoke to know the stock taken was more because in many cases the person would try to use the card first. One man that tried to use the card showed a receipt showing that there was 15 euro left on the card and when he was told that the card was not accepted he took the Sopranos box set off of the counter and walked off. And let's be honest here, if someone is willing to walk into a shop and walk off with products I don't see them being the most honourable of people.

Nope. i had no giftcards....it didnt effect me personally. But some of my little cousins were effcted. And no i never marched into any shop or did anyone i know.

That scenario you describe....i see a very angry man who made a knee jerk reaction, took the first thing he saw off a shelf and walked out.

NTMK · 13-09-2013 9:01pm

Richard Dower wrote: »

When everything was settled they would honour them?....lol, people didnt belive HMV and rightly so!....there is NO evidence if HMV went out of recievership they would or HAD to under receivership laws honour giftcards.

They did in the UK in april/may

lol at your faith in people, you've clearly never worked in retail. the same people who "stuck it to the man" were the same people who decided it was ok to hurl a torrent of abuse towards staff that hadnt been paid in what 5/6 weeks.

13-09-2013 9:04pm

Richard Dower wrote: »

Nope. i had no giftcards....it didnt effect me personally. But some of my little cousins were effcted. And no i never marched into any shop or did anyone i know.

That scenario you describe....i see a very angry man who made a knee jerk reaction, took the first thing he saw off a shelf and walked out.

Then why repeatedly imply that you weer personally affected and took matters into your own hands. To quote your own post

Richard Dower wrote: »

As for the rest....again you're saying we're theives, that we'd did and would take more then people knew the value of the giftcard was.

HMV are back :D

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