Unplanned Pregnancy

Henry9

So a couple of guys I know have recently found themselves in the family way. They weren't planning to be and both believed their girlfriends to be on the pill.

I also heard recently of two girls I used to pal around with who had babies. One was with a guy for 3 months and 'accidentally' got pregnant. Another wasn't involved with anyone but just had a kid too. No father around apparently.

They were both around the 39 mark when it happened, both childless up til now.

Now call me cynical, but I remember being 25 and girls were paranoid about getting caught, roll the clock on 15 years to when they're a lot less fertile and they're accidentally getting caught out?

I've also noticed women 35+ without children are a lot more cavalier about contraception, is this so that they can tell themselves 'it just happened'?

But isn't that an appalling thing to do to a man? Making someone a father against his wishes just because time is running out, is an incredibly selfish thing to do.
From being involved with women that age, some of them are obsessed with having a baby, does that give them the right to put a guy on the hook for the next 20+ years to satisfy that ambition?

Skuxx

Definetly doesn't give them any right to do it! Accidents happen and that's fine, but to do it on purpose is lying and deceitful!

catallus

Sounds like baby fever to me OP.

pwurple

Sorry OP, but you have to protect yourself these days, and not just from pregnancy. STI's are rife.

Condoms are available.

Henry9

pwurple wrote: »

Sorry OP, but you have to protect yourself these days, and not just from pregnancy. STI's are rife.

Condoms are available.

Even if your girlfriend is on the pill?
Would you say the same if one of your female friends got pregnant accidentally and planned having a termination?

In any event I'm not talking about unprotected sex with strangers.
What if your partner claims she is on the pill, but mysteriously gets pregnant?

More to the point, someone consciously deciding to make someone else a father against their wishes.

Henry9

catallus wrote: »

Sounds like baby fever to me OP.

Me too.

catallus

It would be a wonderful place if we could go around boinking without thinking of the repercussions. But it takes two to make a baby. Responsibility lies with both people. It aint rocket science.

Henry9

Henry9 wrote: »

So a couple of guys I know have recently found themselves in the family way. They weren't planning to be and both believed their girlfriends to be on the pill.

I also heard recently of two girls I used to pal around with who had babies. One was with a guy for 3 months and 'accidentally' got pregnant. Another wasn't involved with anyone but just had a kid too. No father around apparently.

They were both around the 39 mark when it happened, both childless up til now.

Now call me cynical, but I remember being 25 and girls were paranoid about getting caught, roll the clock on 15 years to when they're a lot less fertile and they're accidentally getting caught out?

I've also noticed women 35+ without children are a lot more cavalier about contraception, is this so that they can tell themselves 'it just happened'?

But isn't that an appalling thing to do to a man? Making someone a father against his wishes just because time is running out, is an incredibly selfish thing to do.
From being involved with women that age, some of them are obsessed with having a baby, does that give them the right to put a guy on the hook for the next 20+ years to satisfy that ambition?

Three points.

First, if you're in your late thirties and are sexually active for 20ish years, and never get caught out, you might get a bit too relaxed about it over time.

Secondly, no contraceptive is 100% safe.

Thirdly, if I was a guy who absolutely, definitely, undoubtedly didn't want kids, I'd be either getting the snip or using condoms. I'd take responsibility for my own decision not to have kids, instead of relying on someone elses honesty/memory/health/drug companies not screwing up a batch.

Nobody mysteriously gets pregnant. Everyone knows how it happens and adults make their own choices. If you choose to let your girlfriend take the responsibility for contraception, or your boyfriend, you leave yourself open to mistake, accident or fraud.

My default wouldn't be to automatically assume someone was lying or out to trap anyone, but there you go.

If the usually quoted failure rates for the pill were applied to Ireland then all the failures are within a couple of miles of where I live, it's insane.

Dubhlinner

I'd bet that a lot of guys who say "she told me she was on the pill" are actually guys who thought they'd be grand pulling out.

If you're that concerned become a TD and legislate for prison sentences for women who trick men into pregnancy, or else take responsibility for your own contraception.

Grab All Association

I'd be more concerned about the 17/18 year old girls who do it for the child benefit bonus and the lone parent because their job seekers is only €100.

Caonima

Chris___ wrote: »

I'd be more concerned about the 17/18 year old girls who do it for the child benefit bonus and the lone parent because their job seekers is only €100.

Oh no you didn't :rolleyes:

iptba

Chris___ wrote: »

I'd be more concerned about the 17/18 year old girls who do it for the child benefit bonus and the lone parent because their job seekers is only €100.

You only have to pay a tiny fraction of the support needed for this child (as others also financially support it) as opposed to a scenario where you felt you were tricked into being a father and having to support a child for maybe 20 years.

Jonny Blaze

I know a couple of lads who have definitely been spermjacked by older woman alright. It's a vile, low practice which is basically a violation, on a par with rape I would say.

pwurple

Henry9 wrote: »

Even if your girlfriend is on the pill?
Would you say the same if one of your female friends got pregnant accidentally and planned having a termination?

In any event I'm not talking about unprotected sex with strangers.
What if your partner claims she is on the pill, but mysteriously gets pregnant?

More to the point, someone consciously deciding to make someone else a father against their wishes.

Sex has consequences. Sex, biologically, is only for procreation. If you are having sex and it biologically WORKS, then I don't think any surprise is entirely justified.

Especially if you weren't even bothering yourself with contraception.

And I really don't think ignoring STI's is wise at all. A 38 year old sleeping with you is unlikely to have slept with noone else in her whole life.

foxy06

Jonny Blaze wrote: »

I know a couple of lads who have definitely been spermjacked by older woman alright. It's a vile, low practice which is basically a violation, on a par with rape I would say.

'On a par with rape'??? Are you having a laugh?

Woodward

foxy06 wrote: »

'On a par with rape'??? Are you having a laugh?

depends on how you view it. If she says shes on the pill and his consent is based on this it could be rape by fraud

LittleFox

Ah come on that's ridiculous if you don't want children take responsibility and use condoms inconjunction with the pill. It is not solely the woman's responsibility, illness and stress can affect the pills effectiveness and it is also not fool proof to begin with.

Henry9

pwurple wrote: »

Sex has consequences. Sex, biologically, is only for procreation. If you are having sex and it biologically WORKS, then I don't think any surprise is entirely justified.

Are you anti abortion then?
Logically the same argument applies there.

Skuxx

Maybe this is slightly off topic, and if mods want ill create a new thread, but there's a lot of talk here of people using the pill and condoms. Is this something the majority of people do?
I'm with the current gf a few months now, she's on the pill so we don't use condoms! We're both early 20's so kids definetly isn't on the cards. I trust her to take the pill, and I know we're both "clean" so sti's aren't an issue!
We both hate condoms so I'd prefer not to use them, but I'm a bit shocked by the amount of people here saying use both!

In the past all my "relationships" were foolin around, no commitment to each other, one night stand types so it was never an issue I always used a condon anyway!

Henry9

foxy06 wrote: »

'On a par with rape'??? Are you having a laugh?

I don't know how you measure these things against each other, but deliberately putting someone in that position against their will is pretty abhorrent IMO.

This is the element that's being missed by posters saying there's consequences to sex.

Henry9

Skuxx wrote: »

Maybe this is slightly off topic, and if mods want ill create a new thread, but there's a lot of talk here of people using the pill and condoms. Is this something the majority of people do?
I'm with the current gf a few months now, she's on the pill so we don't use condoms! We're both early 20's so kids definetly isn't on the cards. I trust her to take the pill, and I know we're both "clean" so sti's aren't an issue!
We both hate condoms so I'd prefer not to use them, but I'm a bit shocked by the amount of people here saying use both!

In the past all my "relationships" were foolin around, no commitment to each other, one night stand types so it was never an issue I always used a condon anyway!

Saying 'use both' is ridiculous.

What are you going to say to your girlfriend? You're protecting yourself against STIs? You don't trust her to take it everyday?

LittleFox

Henry9 wrote: »

Saying 'use both' is ridiculous.

What are you going to say to your girlfriend? You're protecting yourself against STIs? You don't trust her to take it everyday?

No if you don't want kids then use condoms otherwise you have no one to blame but yourself as you didn't take enough precaution by solely relying on the pill. If you don't use both and the woman ends up pregnant then you haven't been trapped you have been careless

Jonny Blaze

LittleFox wrote: »

Ah come on that's ridiculous if you don't want children take responsibility and use condoms inconjunction with the pill. It is not solely the woman's responsibility, illness and stress can affect the pills effectiveness and it is also not fool proof to begin with.

The perfect use pregnancy rate of COCPs (combined oral contraceptive pills) is 0.3% per year.


The point is that you shouldn't really have to provided your partner isn't lying and manipulating you into getting her pregnant.


I believe most people would agree that condoms decrease sexual pleasure and therefore are to be avoided when other effective methods of contraceptive are in use.

You can bet your ass that if there was a male version of the pill that there would be no such thing as these "surprise" or "accidental" pregnancies.

The key factor is the deceit introduced into the equation, coupled with the complete whitewashing of the man's consent.

Jonny Blaze

LittleFox wrote: »

No if you don't want kids then use condoms otherwise you have no one to blame but yourself as you didn't take enough precaution by solely relying on the pill. If you don't use both and the woman ends up pregnant then you haven't been trapped you have been careless

You just really don't want to admit that women are culpable for this ugly behaviour I would suggest. There is no logical reason to use both, provided the woman is actually holding up her end of the bargain.

It's not a responsibility issue, it's a deceit issue. Can't you tell the difference?

PucaMama

Its amazing how many men think ebery unplanned pregnancy while on the pill is deliberate by the woman. I have a few suggestions for them.

1. Do your research on the pill. You may learn a few things.
2. If you dont want children then either dont have sex or use a condom. Or even get the snip. Its that easy. Take responsibility yourself.
3. Have a think about yourself. Try to work out why you think women are out to con you and what made you think this way.

LittleFox

Jonny Blaze wrote: »

You just really don't want to admit that women are culpable for this ugly behaviour I would suggest. There is no logical reason to use both, provided the woman is actually holding up her end of the bargain.

It's not a responsibility issue, it's a deceit issue. Can't you tell the difference?

I can tell the difference thanks but it also reeks of as long as I don't have to wear a condom I don't care. Reproductive responsibility should not lay solely on the woman. I am on the pill, I take it perfectly but I have still discussed with partners what will happen should an accidental pregnancy occur. I'm 26 and would not be having an abortion. My partner either agrees with that or uses condoms. I have been ill before and knew there was a risk the pill wouldn't work and still have had partners willing to take the chance just so they don't have to wear a condom

BobTheNihilist

It definitely happens a lot more than you'd think. It's very decietful on the woman's part that she'd lie about being on the pill to trap a guy with an 18 year austerity package. I personally know fellas this happened to, where the girl was sleeping around, got up the duff and then chose the most compliant or financially secure guy as a meal ticket.

There needs to be a male pill invented soon, or some form of easily reversible vasectomy so that guys aren't trapped.

Having said that though, lads, if in doubt at all wear a f***ing johnny. Sure it reduces the sensation, but would ya rather be taken to the cleaners by some broody spermjacker? Condoms are 3 Euro, Abortions are about 1000 Euro and child benefit is fairly steep.

Im sure some of you've read this one before, but here it is again.

http://www.craigslist.org/about/best/sea/274495936.html

Henry9

Jonny Blaze wrote: »

...The point is that you shouldn't really have to provided your partner isn't lying and manipulating you into getting her pregnant.
..The key factor is the deceit introduced into the equation, coupled with the complete whitewashing of the man's consent.

Exactly.

Not to mention the mental gymnastics required to pontificate about responsibility and consequences, while presumably supporting a woman's right to avoid those same consequences when it suits.

PucaMama

As a side note your choices are wear a condom/ get the snip or pay child support should she get pregnant. Abortion just because you couldn't be bothered taking responsibility is disgusting imo.

Henry9

PucaMama wrote: »

Its amazing how many men think ebery unplanned pregnancy while on the pill is deliberate by the woman. I have a few suggestions for them.

1. Do your research on the pill. You may learn a few things.
2. If you dont want children then either dont have sex or use a condom. Or even get the snip. Its that easy. Take responsibility yourself.
3. Have a think about yourself. Try to work out why you think women are out to con you and what made you think this way.

Not every instance. There just seems to be a lot of exceptions in the age bracket when time is of the essence.

1. I know plenty about it, often more than the woman I'm with at the time.
2. If there was a religious nut posting the same advice in an abortion thread what would the response be?
3. Oh right, a woman would never do that. It's my fault for even thinking of it. It's never ever ever happened.

PucaMama

Henry9 wrote: »

Not every instance. There just seems to be a lot of exceptions in the age bracket when time is of the essence.

1. I know plenty about it, often more than the woman I'm with at the time.
2. If there was a religious nut posting the same advice in an abortion thread what would the response be?
3. Oh right, a woman would never do that. It's my fault for even thinking of it. It's never ever ever happened.

1. Great not many do.
2. Id give the same advice about abortion.
3. Its not that women would never do it its that its wrong to go around expecting every woman to do it

Jonny Blaze

LittleFox wrote: »

I can tell the difference thanks but it also reeks of as long as I don't have to wear a condom I don't care. Reproductive responsibility should not lay solely on the woman. I am on the pill, I take it perfectly but I have still discussed with partners what will happen should an accidental pregnancy occur. I'm 26 and would not be having an abortion. My partner either agrees with that or uses condoms. I have been ill before and knew there was a risk the pill wouldn't work and still have had partners willing to take the chance just so they don't have to wear a condom

That's what i'm talking about, informed consent.

Of course I would have no sympathy in such a case as the guy knew there were substantial risks and chose to go ahead with it anyway.

Again, one more time, the issue is the deceit..

If someone is telling their partner that are using contraception that in all reasonable forms of use should be effective, when in fact they are not doing any such thing and are willfully lying to their partner in order to get pregnant.. This I have a problem with.

LittleFox

Jonny Blaze wrote: »

That's what i'm talking about, informed consent.

Of course I would have no sympathy in such a case as the guy knew there were substantial risks and chose to go ahead with it anyway.

Again, one more time, the issue is the deceit..

If someone is telling their partner that are using contraception that in all reasonable forms of use should be effective, when in fact they are not doing any such thing and are willfully lying to their partner in order to get pregnant.. This I have a problem with.

Yes willful deceit I would have an issue with, but accidents do happen with the pill and those who would automatically jump to the conclusion that the woman tricked them should quite honestly not be having sex with that person and/or be using condoms until they feel pregnancy would not be the end of the world

username123

Henry9 wrote: »

Not every instance. There just seems to be a lot of exceptions in the age bracket when time is of the essence.

Do you have the stats to back this up?

efb

Step up, take responsibility for your own contraception.

Jonny Blaze

No point arguing with this fembot logic.

Lux23

I have no doubt that there are women who trick men into being fathers, however I don't really feel much , sympathy for a man who really doesn't want to be a father, yet decides not to bother with a condom. I am embarrassed for the men making themselves victims here, yea these women lied, but as adult men you should have the sense to protect yourself.

Henry9

I must get on to Youth Defence and inform them their strategy is all wrong.
This is the most Pro Life thread I've ever seen on boards.

LittleFox

Henry9 wrote: »

I must get on to Youth Defence and inform them their strategy is all wrong.
This is the most Pro Life thread I've ever seen on boards.

How is what anything anyone has said here youth defence worthy. All that's been said is if you don't want kids then take responsibility for your own reproductive protection

Henry9

LittleFox wrote: »

How us what anything anyone as said here youth defence worthy. All that's been said is if you don't want kids then take responsibility for your own reproductive protection

That just there is YD worthy. If people did that there wouldn't be any need for abortion would there?
Or do you think that every woman that has one was because the pill and a condom failed simultaneously?

Or is it just when a grievance is from a man's perspective that the issue is solved by 'taking responsibility' and 'accepting consequences'?

shopaholic01

Are the older women on the combined oral contraceptive pill or the progestogen-only pill (mini pill)?

A lot of women over 35, particularly smokers, cannot take the combined pill. The mini pill is less effective and only allows it to be taken 3 hours lates, as opposed to 12 with the combined pill.

PucaMama

shopaholic01 wrote: »

Are the older women on the combined oral contraceptive pill or the progestogen-only pill (mini pill)?

A lot of women over 35, particularly smokers, cannot take the combined pill. The mini pill is less effective and only allows it to be taken 3 hours lates, as opposed to 12 with the combined pill.

This would be known if men done their research

PucaMama

Henry9 wrote: »

That just there is YD worthy. If people did that there wouldn't be any need for abortion would there?
Or do you think that every woman that has one was because the pill and a condom failed simultaneously?

Or is it just when a grievance is from a man's perspective that the issue is solved by 'taking responsibility' and 'accepting consequences'?

Would it be a bad thing if we wer all so responsible with contraception that abortion wasnt needed?

LittleFox

Henry9 wrote: »

That just there is YD worthy. If people did that there wouldn't be any need for abortion would there?
Or do you think that every woman that has one was because the pill and a condom failed simultaneously?

Or is it just when a grievance is from a man's perspective that the issue is solved by 'taking responsibility' and 'accepting consequences'?

I'm pro choice if abortion is what someone wants then they should be able to access it. But if an abortion could be avoided through the use of condoms I think the majority of women would choose the condoms. The issue with a man choosing abortion over condoms is he is laying complete responsibility on the woman which is completely unfair.

Henry9

PucaMama wrote: »

Would it be a bad thing if we wer all so responsible with contraception that abortion wasnt needed?

No, it would be an absolutely marvelous thing.

But to reiterate for the umpteenth time.
1. I'm not talking about irresponsible unprotected sex. I'm taking about the cases when protection is believed to be used.
2. If consequences are to be accepted they should be accepted across the board. Frame this conversation a different way and you know the opinion of a lot of female posters would flip 180 degrees.

Henry9

LittleFox wrote: »

The issue with a man choosing abortion over condoms is he is laying complete responsibility on the woman which is completely unfair.

It's like talking to the wall.

The pill isn't some magic 100% effective thing. Even aside from taking it correctly at the same time every day, things like antibiotics or straightforward illness can have an effect. Plus it's still got a perfect use failure rate
rather scary that people would go out with women they clearly don't trust and not bother taking some responsibility as well
accidents do happen but making it out to always be a conspiracy? Come on

LittleFox

Henry9 wrote: »

No, it would be an absolutely marvelous thing.

But to reiterate for the umpteenth time.
1. I'm not talking about irresponsible unprotected sex. I'm taking about the cases when protection is believed to be used.
2. If consequences are to be accepted they should be accepted across the board. Frame this conversation a different way and you know the opinion of a lot of female posters would flip 180 degrees.

No contraceptive is 100% by taking the pill it does not mean you are completely covered and this is a fact some men refuse to accept and therefore blame the woman if it fails

pwurple

Henry9 wrote: »

Are you anti abortion then?
Logically the same argument applies there.

What logic exactly? That if you are idiotic enough to have sex without contraception a baby might happen? It's hardly a bloody revelation is it?


Before I wanted children when I was ON the pill I insisted the guy used a condom. Anyone who didn't was basically not getting any, and that was still the case in a 7 year relationship. We didn't want children, we protected ourselves, and guess what... Taadaa. No pregnancies.


If you want to go bareback because it feels better, and you STILL think an unexpected pregnancy is not your own fault, sorry, you're just not very bright.

dharma200

If more men put condoms on they would have less to worry about in the baby department. That is how simple it is. If you don't want a baby, regardless of the woman sayi g one thing or another, wear a condom.... Hey presto, ya won't have a baby......

It's not just women that might do this, men intentionally get women pregnant... Infact it wasn't so long ago on this delightful island it was illegal for women to use contraception... In a few years it is suggested that there are all these apbaby hungry cougars just dyng to steal ya perm of some poor guy who obviously didn't study too hard at biology.......