Unplanned Pregnancy

Henry9

So a couple of guys I know have recently found themselves in the family way. They weren't planning to be and both believed their girlfriends to be on the pill.

I also heard recently of two girls I used to pal around with who had babies. One was with a guy for 3 months and 'accidentally' got pregnant. Another wasn't involved with anyone but just had a kid too. No father around apparently.

They were both around the 39 mark when it happened, both childless up til now.

Now call me cynical, but I remember being 25 and girls were paranoid about getting caught, roll the clock on 15 years to when they're a lot less fertile and they're accidentally getting caught out?

I've also noticed women 35+ without children are a lot more cavalier about contraception, is this so that they can tell themselves 'it just happened'?

But isn't that an appalling thing to do to a man? Making someone a father against his wishes just because time is running out, is an incredibly selfish thing to do.
From being involved with women that age, some of them are obsessed with having a baby, does that give them the right to put a guy on the hook for the next 20+ years to satisfy that ambition?

Skuxx

Definetly doesn't give them any right to do it! Accidents happen and that's fine, but to do it on purpose is lying and deceitful!

catallus

Sounds like baby fever to me OP.

pwurple

Sorry OP, but you have to protect yourself these days, and not just from pregnancy. STI's are rife.

Condoms are available.

Henry9

pwurple wrote: »

Sorry OP, but you have to protect yourself these days, and not just from pregnancy. STI's are rife.

Condoms are available.

Even if your girlfriend is on the pill?
Would you say the same if one of your female friends got pregnant accidentally and planned having a termination?

In any event I'm not talking about unprotected sex with strangers.
What if your partner claims she is on the pill, but mysteriously gets pregnant?

More to the point, someone consciously deciding to make someone else a father against their wishes.

Henry9

catallus wrote: »

Sounds like baby fever to me OP.

Me too.

catallus

It would be a wonderful place if we could go around boinking without thinking of the repercussions. But it takes two to make a baby. Responsibility lies with both people. It aint rocket science.

Henry9

Henry9 wrote: »

So a couple of guys I know have recently found themselves in the family way. They weren't planning to be and both believed their girlfriends to be on the pill.

I also heard recently of two girls I used to pal around with who had babies. One was with a guy for 3 months and 'accidentally' got pregnant. Another wasn't involved with anyone but just had a kid too. No father around apparently.

They were both around the 39 mark when it happened, both childless up til now.

Now call me cynical, but I remember being 25 and girls were paranoid about getting caught, roll the clock on 15 years to when they're a lot less fertile and they're accidentally getting caught out?

I've also noticed women 35+ without children are a lot more cavalier about contraception, is this so that they can tell themselves 'it just happened'?

But isn't that an appalling thing to do to a man? Making someone a father against his wishes just because time is running out, is an incredibly selfish thing to do.
From being involved with women that age, some of them are obsessed with having a baby, does that give them the right to put a guy on the hook for the next 20+ years to satisfy that ambition?

Three points.

First, if you're in your late thirties and are sexually active for 20ish years, and never get caught out, you might get a bit too relaxed about it over time.

Secondly, no contraceptive is 100% safe.

Thirdly, if I was a guy who absolutely, definitely, undoubtedly didn't want kids, I'd be either getting the snip or using condoms. I'd take responsibility for my own decision not to have kids, instead of relying on someone elses honesty/memory/health/drug companies not screwing up a batch.

Nobody mysteriously gets pregnant. Everyone knows how it happens and adults make their own choices. If you choose to let your girlfriend take the responsibility for contraception, or your boyfriend, you leave yourself open to mistake, accident or fraud.

My default wouldn't be to automatically assume someone was lying or out to trap anyone, but there you go.

If the usually quoted failure rates for the pill were applied to Ireland then all the failures are within a couple of miles of where I live, it's insane.

Dubhlinner

I'd bet that a lot of guys who say "she told me she was on the pill" are actually guys who thought they'd be grand pulling out.

If you're that concerned become a TD and legislate for prison sentences for women who trick men into pregnancy, or else take responsibility for your own contraception.

Grab All Association

I'd be more concerned about the 17/18 year old girls who do it for the child benefit bonus and the lone parent because their job seekers is only €100.

Caonima

Chris___ wrote: »

I'd be more concerned about the 17/18 year old girls who do it for the child benefit bonus and the lone parent because their job seekers is only €100.

Oh no you didn't :rolleyes:

iptba

Chris___ wrote: »

I'd be more concerned about the 17/18 year old girls who do it for the child benefit bonus and the lone parent because their job seekers is only €100.

You only have to pay a tiny fraction of the support needed for this child (as others also financially support it) as opposed to a scenario where you felt you were tricked into being a father and having to support a child for maybe 20 years.

Jonny Blaze

I know a couple of lads who have definitely been spermjacked by older woman alright. It's a vile, low practice which is basically a violation, on a par with rape I would say.

pwurple

Henry9 wrote: »

Even if your girlfriend is on the pill?
Would you say the same if one of your female friends got pregnant accidentally and planned having a termination?

In any event I'm not talking about unprotected sex with strangers.
What if your partner claims she is on the pill, but mysteriously gets pregnant?

More to the point, someone consciously deciding to make someone else a father against their wishes.

Sex has consequences. Sex, biologically, is only for procreation. If you are having sex and it biologically WORKS, then I don't think any surprise is entirely justified.

Especially if you weren't even bothering yourself with contraception.

And I really don't think ignoring STI's is wise at all. A 38 year old sleeping with you is unlikely to have slept with noone else in her whole life.

foxy06

Jonny Blaze wrote: »

I know a couple of lads who have definitely been spermjacked by older woman alright. It's a vile, low practice which is basically a violation, on a par with rape I would say.

'On a par with rape'??? Are you having a laugh?

Woodward

foxy06 wrote: »

'On a par with rape'??? Are you having a laugh?

depends on how you view it. If she says shes on the pill and his consent is based on this it could be rape by fraud

LittleFox

Ah come on that's ridiculous if you don't want children take responsibility and use condoms inconjunction with the pill. It is not solely the woman's responsibility, illness and stress can affect the pills effectiveness and it is also not fool proof to begin with.

Henry9

pwurple wrote: »

Sex has consequences. Sex, biologically, is only for procreation. If you are having sex and it biologically WORKS, then I don't think any surprise is entirely justified.

Are you anti abortion then?
Logically the same argument applies there.

Skuxx

Maybe this is slightly off topic, and if mods want ill create a new thread, but there's a lot of talk here of people using the pill and condoms. Is this something the majority of people do?
I'm with the current gf a few months now, she's on the pill so we don't use condoms! We're both early 20's so kids definetly isn't on the cards. I trust her to take the pill, and I know we're both "clean" so sti's aren't an issue!
We both hate condoms so I'd prefer not to use them, but I'm a bit shocked by the amount of people here saying use both!

In the past all my "relationships" were foolin around, no commitment to each other, one night stand types so it was never an issue I always used a condon anyway!

Henry9

foxy06 wrote: »

'On a par with rape'??? Are you having a laugh?

I don't know how you measure these things against each other, but deliberately putting someone in that position against their will is pretty abhorrent IMO.

This is the element that's being missed by posters saying there's consequences to sex.

Henry9

Skuxx wrote: »

Maybe this is slightly off topic, and if mods want ill create a new thread, but there's a lot of talk here of people using the pill and condoms. Is this something the majority of people do?
I'm with the current gf a few months now, she's on the pill so we don't use condoms! We're both early 20's so kids definetly isn't on the cards. I trust her to take the pill, and I know we're both "clean" so sti's aren't an issue!
We both hate condoms so I'd prefer not to use them, but I'm a bit shocked by the amount of people here saying use both!

In the past all my "relationships" were foolin around, no commitment to each other, one night stand types so it was never an issue I always used a condon anyway!

Saying 'use both' is ridiculous.

What are you going to say to your girlfriend? You're protecting yourself against STIs? You don't trust her to take it everyday?

LittleFox

Henry9 wrote: »

Saying 'use both' is ridiculous.

What are you going to say to your girlfriend? You're protecting yourself against STIs? You don't trust her to take it everyday?

No if you don't want kids then use condoms otherwise you have no one to blame but yourself as you didn't take enough precaution by solely relying on the pill. If you don't use both and the woman ends up pregnant then you haven't been trapped you have been careless

Jonny Blaze

LittleFox wrote: »

Ah come on that's ridiculous if you don't want children take responsibility and use condoms inconjunction with the pill. It is not solely the woman's responsibility, illness and stress can affect the pills effectiveness and it is also not fool proof to begin with.

The perfect use pregnancy rate of COCPs (combined oral contraceptive pills) is 0.3% per year.


The point is that you shouldn't really have to provided your partner isn't lying and manipulating you into getting her pregnant.


I believe most people would agree that condoms decrease sexual pleasure and therefore are to be avoided when other effective methods of contraceptive are in use.

You can bet your ass that if there was a male version of the pill that there would be no such thing as these "surprise" or "accidental" pregnancies.

The key factor is the deceit introduced into the equation, coupled with the complete whitewashing of the man's consent.

Jonny Blaze

LittleFox wrote: »

No if you don't want kids then use condoms otherwise you have no one to blame but yourself as you didn't take enough precaution by solely relying on the pill. If you don't use both and the woman ends up pregnant then you haven't been trapped you have been careless

You just really don't want to admit that women are culpable for this ugly behaviour I would suggest. There is no logical reason to use both, provided the woman is actually holding up her end of the bargain.

It's not a responsibility issue, it's a deceit issue. Can't you tell the difference?

PucaMama

Its amazing how many men think ebery unplanned pregnancy while on the pill is deliberate by the woman. I have a few suggestions for them.

1. Do your research on the pill. You may learn a few things.
2. If you dont want children then either dont have sex or use a condom. Or even get the snip. Its that easy. Take responsibility yourself.
3. Have a think about yourself. Try to work out why you think women are out to con you and what made you think this way.

LittleFox

Jonny Blaze wrote: »

You just really don't want to admit that women are culpable for this ugly behaviour I would suggest. There is no logical reason to use both, provided the woman is actually holding up her end of the bargain.

It's not a responsibility issue, it's a deceit issue. Can't you tell the difference?

I can tell the difference thanks but it also reeks of as long as I don't have to wear a condom I don't care. Reproductive responsibility should not lay solely on the woman. I am on the pill, I take it perfectly but I have still discussed with partners what will happen should an accidental pregnancy occur. I'm 26 and would not be having an abortion. My partner either agrees with that or uses condoms. I have been ill before and knew there was a risk the pill wouldn't work and still have had partners willing to take the chance just so they don't have to wear a condom

BobTheNihilist

It definitely happens a lot more than you'd think. It's very decietful on the woman's part that she'd lie about being on the pill to trap a guy with an 18 year austerity package. I personally know fellas this happened to, where the girl was sleeping around, got up the duff and then chose the most compliant or financially secure guy as a meal ticket.

There needs to be a male pill invented soon, or some form of easily reversible vasectomy so that guys aren't trapped.

Having said that though, lads, if in doubt at all wear a f***ing johnny. Sure it reduces the sensation, but would ya rather be taken to the cleaners by some broody spermjacker? Condoms are 3 Euro, Abortions are about 1000 Euro and child benefit is fairly steep.

Im sure some of you've read this one before, but here it is again.

http://www.craigslist.org/about/best/sea/274495936.html

Henry9

Jonny Blaze wrote: »

...The point is that you shouldn't really have to provided your partner isn't lying and manipulating you into getting her pregnant.
..The key factor is the deceit introduced into the equation, coupled with the complete whitewashing of the man's consent.

Exactly.

Not to mention the mental gymnastics required to pontificate about responsibility and consequences, while presumably supporting a woman's right to avoid those same consequences when it suits.

PucaMama

As a side note your choices are wear a condom/ get the snip or pay child support should she get pregnant. Abortion just because you couldn't be bothered taking responsibility is disgusting imo.

Henry9

PucaMama wrote: »

Its amazing how many men think ebery unplanned pregnancy while on the pill is deliberate by the woman. I have a few suggestions for them.

1. Do your research on the pill. You may learn a few things.
2. If you dont want children then either dont have sex or use a condom. Or even get the snip. Its that easy. Take responsibility yourself.
3. Have a think about yourself. Try to work out why you think women are out to con you and what made you think this way.

Not every instance. There just seems to be a lot of exceptions in the age bracket when time is of the essence.

1. I know plenty about it, often more than the woman I'm with at the time.
2. If there was a religious nut posting the same advice in an abortion thread what would the response be?
3. Oh right, a woman would never do that. It's my fault for even thinking of it. It's never ever ever happened.