Why would anyone want to get married??

Legs.Eleven

Catphish wrote: »

I'm not disagreeing with your point, it's as valid as any have for marriage as those against have. But sometimes there are outside factors to take into account for a couple that are in a LTR and are not married. Some have put buying a home as a priority over getting married and simply don't have the money to get married for the forseeable future. There are people that just working to make ends meet and also cannot see how it can happen.

I personally don't believe that you have to spend a fortune on a wedding, and it can be done on a small budget. But that isn't for everyone either, and they may well want a big wedding and all that goes with it.

Marriage is for some, not for others. We just have to accept that. Though some of the replies are so embittered by past experience or something they've observed through a family or friends experience, it's sad to read how these things have shaped a persons opinion on marriage. Nevertheless I respect that, and I've no wish to change their outlook on it.

I'm not disagreeing with you on the points above and never did, I'm disagreeing with Frank Lee Midere's point:

In general most people who rant against marriage, or say they never will, always do.

I think you might've thanked this comment above?

It's not true and not all of us are part of the ranty brigade.

I live in Spain and you can almost have the same rights here as a married couple. That's what we should be striving for in Ireland instead of people who don't believe in marriage being put in a position where they have no choice.

Edit: and for some posters to state it's only a bit of paper is disingenuous. If that's all it was then there wouldn't be such controversy over it.

Starscream25

I'm all up for a life partner and all that but the wedding ceremony, smiling for the cameras, being centre of attention, wouldn't like any of it.

Legs.Eleven

I'll tell you why marriage doesn't appeal to me: I can't promise anyone that I'll be there 'till the day I die. I can't say, "Till death do us part" and mean it because I have no clue what lies ahead. I am with a man I love more every day. I care for him and have been there for 2 and a half years for the death of his dad and his long-term unemployment and blue mood that that has gone with that. I've been there right through a masters degree he's finding difficult to finish and has made things tricky for our own relationship. He's the greatest man I've ever met and I love being with him. He's away at the moment and I miss him terribly (we live together) and I'd love to have a sprog or two with him because I know he'd be a great dad....but I will not sign anything that says I'll feel that way for my whole life. How do I know how I'll feel in 40 years time or even 2 years time? How do I know how he'll feel about me? If I saw how things would work out for me when I was 20, I think I'd be shocked.

Sexual love is conditional and I've been around the block enough to know that none of us have any idea how things will work out. Neither of us are psychic. I look back on previous relationships with fellas I thought I'd always love but how wrong I was then.

What I can promise him is that I'll love him today and I will look out for him and be there for him in the here and now, so I will take our relationship one step at a time. I can't imagine my life without him NOW but god knows how I'll feel 20 years from now or even 2 years.

Yes, you can say, "Oh you mustn't really love him then. If you loved him you would" and loads of other condescending rubbish but that's not true. Marriages fall apart all the time - couples who loved each other once but fell out of love. It happens all the time. I'm simply not going to sign anything that would be a lie.

Whatever floats your boat though and I'm very happy to see happy marriages (and I've known plenty of those. The vast majority of marriages I know are success stories) and I love weddings. It just isn't for me.

Isn't it better I considered this and really made a MATURE decision on this instead of jumping into something just cos it's the done thing?

sashafierce

This post has been deleted.

seenitall

Spot on, Legs. IMO, how much more satisfying it is to be with someone who you know chooses to be with you every day of their life anew, rather than to be with someone where there may creep in a possibility they are with you because it wouldn't be worth the hassle/expense/status to disentangle themselves from you now/yet/ever.

Things change. Marriage is great for some people on this thread, but has precious little to offer or entice others.

It is a fact that its rates have been dropping off in the West for decades at this stage. A lot of people see the logic fail behind the idea, as outlined in Legs' post.

Czarcasm

Legs.Eleven wrote: »

Isn't it better I considered this and really made a MATURE decision on this instead of jumping into something just cos it's the done thing?

Great points well made Legs, but I think Frank was referring to some people who are vehemently opposed to marriage and children and use every opportunity to voice their objection to marriage, etc.

Extremists of opinion basically who just come off as very immature in thinking that just because marriage isn't for them, they "can't understand" how it would be for anybody. I too know many people who have been co-habiting long term and have no interest in getting married, but they don't make a point of it, they just get on with their lives.

People have plenty of different reasons to want to be married. For me it was simply a case of I got sick of people trying to be politically correct and referring to my girlfriend as my "partner". I'd always understood the word partner to be used in the context of a business partner.

My girlfriend was more to me than just the impersonal "partner". So now when people refer to her as my partner, I'll correct them to properly refer to her by her name, or as my wife. I knew I did want to spend the rest of my life with her, and still do, but the legal and otherwise implications of marriage were only a secondary concern.

If I thought we were ever going to split up, I wouldn't have wanted to have children with her in the first place. I'm a realist certainly, and of course I can't tell what might happen in the future, but planning for that future and working towards it certainly minimizes the risk of unforeseen circumstances having an adverse effect on our marriage.

Idjit

I don't want to get married personally, but I do enjoy seeing it work out for other people.

I've been to several weddings of friends my age and younger and older (I'm 22) and I've been delighted for them, but I currently can't see myself signing a contract to promise to be with someone for life.

I can commit to someone for life and love them more than anything, I just don't personally see a reason behind signing a physical contract for commitment when I know I'm already signing one mentally

Legs.Eleven

Czarcasm wrote: »

Great points well made Legs, but I think Frank was referring to some people who are vehemently opposed to marriage and children and use every opportunity to voice their objection to marriage, etc.

Extremists of opinion basically who just come off as very immature in thinking that just because marriage isn't for them, they "can't understand" how it would be for anybody. I too know many people who have been co-habiting long term and have no interest in getting married, but they don't make a point of it, they just get on with their lives.

People have plenty of different reasons to want to be married. For me it was simply a case of I got sick of people trying to be politically correct and referring to my girlfriend as my "partner". I'd always understood the word partner to be used in the context of a business partner.

My girlfriend was more to me than just the impersonal "partner". So now when people refer to her as my partner, I'll correct them to properly refer to her by her name, or as my wife. I knew I did want to spend the rest of my life with her, and still do, but the legal and otherwise implications of marriage were only a secondary concern.

If I thought we were ever going to split up, I wouldn't have wanted to have children with her in the first place. I'm a realist certainly, and of course I can't tell what might happen in the future, but planning for that future and working towards it certainly minimizes the risk of unforeseen circumstances having an adverse effect on our marriage.

My post wasn't in response to anyone. Just wanted to share my feelings to balance things out a bit.:) I do agree with you; some of the immature attitudes on BOTH sides are cringeworthy.

Tom M

Catphish wrote: »

If you genuinely deeply love someone you would not see it as being 'stuck' with them. You should be looking forward to spending the rest of your life with them.

That's great, but what about the 3 billion other men/women you can't date/meet/have sex with.

T-K-O

Swingers.Athlone - that website is hoping

Tom M

Jade182 wrote: »

I don't want to get married personally, but I do enjoy seeing it work out for other people.

I've been to several weddings of friends my age and younger and older (I'm 22) and I've been delighted for them, but I currently can't see myself signing a contract to promise to be with someone for life.

I can commit to someone for life and love them more than anything, I just don't personally see a reason behind signing a physical contract for commitment when I know I'm already signing one mentally

Why "sign one mentally", why not decide every day if you should stay or break up.

You have no way of knowing that you will still even like eachother in ten years time so why commit to life together.

To those who don't believe in marriage what if you meet someone who you want to spend your life with but they really want to get married, possibly even was a deal breaker for them if marriage was out of the question?

T-K-O

Tom M wrote: »

Why "sign one mentally", why not decide every day if you should stay or break up.

You have no way of knowing that you will still even like eachother in ten years time so why commit to life together.

A bit like a mortgage eh

Catphish

Tom M wrote: »

That's great, but what about the 3 billion other men/women you can't date/meet/have sex with.

I don't, so they will all have to ride each other

Yellow121

People get married because everyone else gets married, they feel left out, they feel like they have to. That's why there's so many unhappy marriages about and why they take it out on their kids.
I'm not saying everyone is like this, there's some people who really want to get married but there's a load of people who take the attitude that this is the best they can do and marry. In the past Irish people had to just suffer through remaining married even though the relationship was over, with divorce introduced that's changed somewhat but there's still plenty of unhappy marriages that struggle on.

seenitall

I would have thought that if an issue like this is a deal-breaker for one party, then it would be a deal-breaker for the other one, too. Similar to how you can't compromise on having children; either you have them or you don't. At least that's the way I see it.

Legs.Eleven

Emilia Hallowed Lava wrote: »

To those who don't believe in marriage what if you meet someone who you want to spend your life with but they really want to get married, possibly even was a deal breaker for them if marriage was out of the question?

My boyfriend brought up marriage while we were on holidays in Portugal a few weeks ago. He knows how I feel but now I know his feelings against it (although I'm not against marriage, it just isn't for me) weren't as strong as mine (although it wasn't an issue - probably some pressure from his conservative Spanish family). It's something we discussed on our first date; he knew how I felt about kids (I'd like some as would he) and we both agreed on what I said above about marriage. It's important to discuss these things early on although it's tricky. If one person knows the other doesn't want to get married, they really can't have it as a make or break issue down the line and expect a change of heart.


To make a long story short, these things should be discussed early on, particularly when you hit your very late twenties/early 30s.

Grandpa Hassan

Emilia Hallowed Lava wrote: »

To those who don't believe in marriage what if you meet someone who you want to spend your life with but they really want to get married, possibly even was a deal breaker for them if marriage was out of the question?

If they were completely insistent on the idea, it would be a deal breaker for me.

But tbh if she felt that strongly about it to the extent that it is marriage or nothing, the chances are that we would have different philosophies in other areas too and different ideas of what comprises a loving relationship, and we therefore wouldn't be together anyway

Czarcasm

Tom M wrote: »

That's great, but what about the 3 billion other men/women you can't date/meet/have sex with.

What about them? If you're with someone you want to be with, then you want to be with them more than 3 billion other people.

Tom M wrote: »

Why "sign one mentally", why not decide every day if you should stay or break up.

You have no way of knowing that you will still even like eachother in ten years time so why commit to life together.

Because deciding every day if you should stay or break up would be immature and childish in the extreme.

Sure, people have no way of knowing anything in ten years time, but they generally have a good idea of how they would like things to work in ten years time and so they work towards that goal. Walking away every time you have a barney gets nobody anywhere.

Emilia Hallowed Lava wrote: »

To those who don't believe in marriage what if you meet someone who you want to spend your life with but they really want to get married, possibly even was a deal breaker for them if marriage was out of the question?

Well then it's a deal breaker and there's no getting around it. The person has to decide is the other person worth compromising one aspect of their idealism for, or not, and if not, then they have the choice of walking away.

Tom M

Czarcasm wrote: »

What about them? If you're with someone you want to be with, then you want to be with them more than 3 billion other people.





Because deciding every day if you should stay or break up would be immature and childish in the extreme.

Sure, people have no way of knowing anything in ten years time, but they generally have a good idea of how they would like things to work in ten years time and so they work towards that goal. Walking away every time you have a barney gets nobody anywhere.





Well then it's a deal breaker and there's no getting around it. The person has to decide is the other person worth compromising one aspect of their idealism for, or not, and if not, then they have the choice of walking away.

How exactly is deciding continuously if you should stay or go childish?

I fail to seen any logic behind that.

Tom M

Tom M wrote: »

How exactly is deciding continuously if you should stay or go childish?

I fail to seen any logic behind that.

In every area of your life you should make a decision about what is best for yourself. Circumstances and people change so a decision you made 5 years ago might not be in your best interest today.

I've never encountered a child who applied such reasonable logic.

Legs.Eleven

Czarcasm wrote: »

Because deciding every day if you should stay or break up would be immature and childish in the extreme.

Do you really think he meant it literally? Second by second, people should discuss they want to be together?

I think he means (like I did) take it as it comes and to me, that seems like a very level-headed way to go about things. Not at all how a child would think. Particularly when it comes to something as precarious as feelings.

Czarcasm

Tom M wrote: »

How exactly is deciding continuously if you should stay or go childish?

I fail to seen any logic behind that.

Because if you're making spur of the moment decisions like that, you end up just coasting through life at the whim of your circumstances. If you have an argument and at that moment decide to walk away, then regret your decision the next day as having been a bit hasty, can you walk back so easily and continue to expect the other person to walk on eggshells for fear that you could walk out on them at any minute? That kind of thinking is no basis for a relationship or stability within a relationship.

In every area of your life you should make a decision about what is best for yourself. Circumstances and people change so a decision you made 5 years ago might not be in your best interest today.

In every area of your life it would be nice to be able to make decisions that purely best suit yourself, but when you're in a relationship, then you have to take account of how your decisions will affect the other person. In your career I'm sure you make decisions every day that could affect at least a dozen people, so the idea that you only need make decisions that best suit yourself, while it's nice in theory, in practice it's completely unworkable, well, unless you actually ARE that self-centred that you think of nobody but yourself.

I've never encountered a child who applied such reasonable logic.

I've met plenty of children who live by such self-centred logic, hell, my own young lad can be a bit of a diva at times that thinks the world revolves around him.

To him that sounds perfectly logical, but as mature adults, we know better, right?

Czarcasm

Legs.Eleven wrote: »

Do you really think he meant it literally? Second by second, people should discuss they want to be together?

I think he means (like I did) take it as it comes and to me, that seems like a very level-headed way to go about things. Not at all how a child would think. Particularly when it comes to something as precarious as feelings.

Well his use of the word "continuously" did give me that impression, yes

Even the "take it as it comes" philosophy though, am I wrong in thinking that would advocate just coasting through life with no plan or objectives?

That works for some people, and some people are comfortable doing that, but for more people failing to plan, as cliche as it sounds, is just planning to fail, like those people that say "what if the marriage doesn't work out?", etc. I've yet to meet anybody who got married thinking from the get-go it wouldn't work out.

seenitall

Czarcasm wrote: »

I've yet to meet anybody who got married thinking from the get-go it wouldn't work out.

Perhaps not, but there are plenty who end up thinking it afterwards.

If talking reason, it is surely more reasonable to circumvent this kind of trouble by not putting yourself in the position where it becomes feasible, then to go on sheer faith that no-one's feelings for their OH or about being married to them, will ever change.

Legs.Eleven

Czarcasm wrote: »

Well his use of the word "continuously" did give me that impression, yes

Even the "take it as it comes" philosophy though, am I wrong in thinking that would advocate just coasting through life with no plan or objectives?

That works for some people, and some people are comfortable doing that, but for more people failing to plan, as cliche as it sounds, is just planning to fail, like those people that say "what if the marriage doesn't work out?", etc. I've yet to meet anybody who got married thinking from the get-go it wouldn't work out.

But how can you plan emotions? We're talking about marriage here. We're talking about promising someone that you will love them for the rest of your life. I remember having friends as a kid telling them we'd be friends forever. Somewhere around the beginning of 1st year, our friendships broke down. I know now when I meet people that I might only know them for a few weeks/months/years. I'm just finished a course in teaching English and my tutor laughed at us when we were taking down each other's names promising each other we'd keep in touch (except a few of us). She told us we reminded her of kids on a Summer camp promising to be BFFs. That realisation hit me like a sledgehammer once I left uni and almost immediately lost touch with people I promised I'd be friends with.

Jaysus people thought Ireland would be rich forever, bought property for insane prices and now look at them.


You can only plan so far....for anything! Never mind something so changeable and precarious as emotions. I'm with someone and we make plans for the future but still I can't guarantee him I'll love him till "death do us part". I can't guarantee our washing machine will last, I can't guarantee him I'll have a stable income forever. There's no guarantees in life and to believe there is is a bit childish.

Czarcasm

seenitall wrote: »

If talking reason, it is surely more reasonable to circumvent this kind of trouble by not putting yourself in the position where it becomes feasible, then to go on sheer faith that no-one's feelings for their OH or about being married to them, will ever change.

Well if you're going to use reason and logic to avoid taking a risk, you could argue that right back to it being safer not to get out of bed in the morning. Why take the risk of doing anything at all when there's a chance it might not work out? That would be the logical, reasonable, and rational way of thinking.

It'd be silly for me to suggest that anyone's feelings for their boyfriend/girlfriend/wife/husband will never change. Of course they do, but that's not always for the worse either, and that's the risk you take- play it safe and never get hurt, or, take a risk and the payoff can be the best thing that's ever happened to you.

Legs.Eleven

Czarcasm wrote: »

Well if you're going to use reason and logic to avoid taking a risk, you could argue that right back to it being safer not to get out of bed in the morning. Why take the risk of doing anything at all when there's a chance it might not work out? That would be the logical, reasonable, and rational way of thinking.

It'd be silly for me to suggest that anyone's feelings for their boyfriend/girlfriend/wife/husband will never change. Of course they do, but that's not always for the worse either, and that's the risk you take- play it safe and never get hurt, or, take a risk and the payoff can be the best thing that's ever happened to you.

The risk is always there whether you marry or not. Feelings change irrespective of a wedding day.

Czarcasm

Legs.Eleven wrote: »

But how can you plan emotions? We're talking about marriage here. We're talking about promising someone that you will love them for the rest of your life. I remember having friends as a kid telling them we'd be friends forever. Somewhere around the beginning of 1st year, our friendships broke down. I know now when I meet people that I might only know them for a few weeks/months/years. I'm just finished a course in teaching English and my tutor laughed at us when we were taking down each other's names promising each other we'd keep in touch (except a few of us). She told us we reminded her of kids on a Summer camp promising to be BFFs. That realisation hit me like a sledgehammer once I left uni and almost immediately lost touch with people I promised I'd be friends with.

Jaysus people thought Ireland would be rich forever, bought property for insane prices and now look at them.


You can only plan so far....for anything! Never mind something so changeable and precarious as emotions. I'm with someone and we make plans for the future but still I can't guarantee him I'll love him till "death do us part". I can't guarantee our washing machine will last, I can't guarantee him I'll have a stable income forever. There's no guarantees in life and to believe there is is a bit childish.

Geez Legs, you chastised me for interpreting things literally...

If two people make a promise to each other, then it takes work to keep that promise, from both sides. A promise is just that- the heartfelt belief that you'll keep your word. Nowhere in the marriage vows does it say "I guarantee" anything, because as you quite rightly point out there are no such thing as guarantees in life.

I take nothing for granted, and because I don't take anything for granted, I have to work at it, and if I want my marriage to work, well, obviously it takes more than just love or feelings to make it work.

Words are just words, but it's with our actions that we display our true feelings.

Legs.Eleven

Czarcasm wrote: »

Geez Legs, you chastised me for interpreting things literally...

If two people make a promise to each other, then it takes work to keep that promise, from both sides. A promise is just that- the heartfelt belief that you'll keep your word. Nowhere in the marriage vows does it say "I guarantee" anything, because as you quite rightly point out there are no such thing as guarantees in life.

I take nothing for granted, and because I don't take anything for granted, I have to work at it, and if I want my marriage to work, well, obviously it takes more than just love or feelings to make it work.

Words are just words, but it's with our actions that we display our true feelings.

No guarantee but definitely a promise and not a very realistic promise in my eyes (personally).

Words are just words...my point exactly.