Dean Karnazes, the man who can run forever

pconn062

...or some bollox like that.

Pretty funny article here about him.

The "science" discussed here is very dodgy, apparently he can run really long ultra's due to his extraordinarily high lactate threshold. Now I'm no ultra runner but surely if you are running a 100 mile race you should be nowhere near you LT, so how high it is really makes no difference?

Cabaal

He can run 100 miles, but sure so can a few people on this forum.

He's nothing special really, he's just good at the media stuff. If you look at races he enters he doesn't come near the top the majority of the time... Badwater 135 and western states 100 are good examples.

None the less, he's had a benefit, his books have likely got people running but at the expense of the media basically ignoring some top runners which is a awful shame. .

TFBubendorfer

He sure knows how to sell himself. He eventually admitted that his first book is full of exaggerations and nonsense, but I read a later book of him and he came across better in that one.

He is nowhere near as good a runner as is sometimes made out, hell, even my own marathon time is better than his (ok, he's got me by 15 minutes at 100 miles at the mo).

He did inspire people to run and he does good work for charity, so give him credit where it's due.

b.harte

I think he was a guest on marathon talk or talkultra a while ago and he came off fairly well. He pretty much admitted the whole PR side to his life meant he wasn't being taken seriously at all outside of those who view him (rightly or wrongly) as some sort of legend.
A few people I know (mostly non-runners but into other fitness) seem to think he's epic :rolleyes:
He has certainly opened people eyes to life beyond marathons so is that a bad thing.

for the record never read anything by him, his reputation (and multiple forums bashing him) turned me off that book.

Slightly off topic but I'm not really enjoying Scott Jurek's "eat&run", I think the back story is great and inspiring but I'm not keen on the constant highlight of veganism, just think it's too hard a sell, but that's just my take on it (and yes I know it is an important part of his achievements), I like my steaks too much. (audio book version so print version might be less in your face).

eliwallach

+1 on Scott Jurek.
partly a running book, mostly a cookery book.

walshb

Who cares if someone can run 100 miles? I see nothing special or interesting in it.

ultrapercy

walshb wrote: »

Who cares if someone can run 100 miles? I see nothing special or interesting in it.

id imagine the person who runs 100 miles cares. Some of their friends, family clubmates . That could be lots of people if the person has a lot of friends, a big family and runs for Clonliffe. Got many friends yourself?

sideswipe

walshb wrote: »

Who cares if someone can run 100 miles? I see nothing special or interesting in it.

In fairness Karnazes would not consider himself a '100 mile runner' in fact he'd agree wholeheartedly with your statement i'm sure.

100 miles is just an arbitrary number the same as 26.2 miles is, people are entitled to think there is nothing special about either number. Everyone to their own and all that.

Personally I've a lot of respect for the dedication and mentality needed to run a 100 mile race, especially at altitude and in extreme weather conditions. Look at Enduro's UTMB achievement in another thread on this forum and tell me that's not special or interesting!

As others have said Karnazes has played the media well. He has made himself the face of ultrarunning even though he is not even near the top of his field. He actually seems more drawn to extreme adventure challenges like multi-day desert races were his strengths are rather than straight up 100 milers.

I've read his books and I'm not sure if I actually like them or not- he claims to be shy and retiring and yet I've seen him walk onto a talk show set in the US like a rock star.

I think his appeal is one of a guy who was getting older, working in a corporate environment who decided he wasn't fulfilled so he pulled on a pair of runners and left it all behind.

All that said he's inspired others and done a huge amount for charity so kudos where it's due.

walshb

Maybe if they were running sub 6 mins pace I would see it as special. Other than that it's just pure monotony.

hypersonic

ultrapercy wrote: »

id imagine the person who runs 100 miles cares. Some of their friends, family clubmates . That could be lots of people if the person has a lot of friends, a big family and runs for Clonliffe. Got many friends yourself?

Ultra running is a niche with in a niche within a niche sport, I have time for anybody who takes their sport seriously, but ultra running is a tiny speck on the sporting landscape.

ultrapercy

hypersonic wrote: »

Ultra running is a niche with in a niche within a niche sport, I have time for anybody who takes their sport seriously, but ultra running is a tiny speck on the sporting landscape.

That's true, so what?

PaulieC

Running is a niche sport now ?

lynchieboy

On the Scott Jurek veganism thing, doesnt the fact that he ate meat and plenty of it when he was growing up allow his body to develop fully so when he changed to veganism his body wasnt growing or developing as a childs is?

b.harte

lynchieboy wrote: »

On the Scott Jurek veganism thing, doesnt the fact that he ate meat and plenty of it when he was growing up allow his body to develop fully so when he changed to veganism his body wasnt growing or developing as a childs is?

Yeah I would imagine there is an element of that at play which is being overlooked. However, committed vegans will say that the body will develop without meat as well.
But, can we not go down the is vegan good or bad route, I just want to follow this thread as it slowly descends into (yet another) of walshb's trolling attempts .

I'll bite. :pac:

Where you been man, we missed you :rolleyes:

So 6min pace for 100 miles and then you would see it as special, seems legit.
You've got high standards, so can you live up to them yourself?
Because if you can't that makes you......dare I say it....nothing special. (that is a logical extension of your viewpoint isn't it?)
Welcome to the world of mediocrity, it's fairly well populated, but always room for one more.

hypersonic

PaulieC wrote: »

Running is a niche sport now ?

I'm afraid so, bar the Olympics it just not on most people's radar. where was the tv coverage of the world's, where is the tv coverage the diamond league. Get two lads kicking a bogball against a wall and rte is there!
it's a niche sport, it doesn't bother me but there's no point kidding ourselves.

Henry9

b.harte wrote: »

So 6min pace for 100 miles and then you would see it as special, seems legit.
You've got high standards, so can you live up to them yourself?
Because if you can't that makes you......dare I say it....nothing special. (that is a logical extension of your viewpoint isn't it?)
Welcome to the world of mediocrity, it's fairly well populated, but always room for one more.

People are very defensive around here.
Nobody can comment unless they meet world class standard themselves?

There's nothing superhuman about what he does, the guy obviously has very high pain and boredom thresholds, but that won't sell many tickets.

Good luck to the guy and all, but it wouldn't exactly set my heart racing either.

And what's wrong with being mediocre, have you not realised yet that's what you are too?
Welcome to 99.99% of the human race.

PaulieC

hypersonic wrote: »

I'm afraid so, bar the Olympics it just not on most people's radar. where was the tv coverage of the world's, where is the tv coverage the diamond league. Get two lads kicking a bogball against a wall and rte is there!
it's a niche sport, it doesn't bother me but there's no point kidding ourselves.

I was watching Diamond League athletics on tv the week before last.

Henry9

PaulieC wrote: »

I was watching Diamond League athletics on tv the week before last.

That doesn't contradict what was said. BBC showed DL on BBC3 or 4 last week, some people stay up til the early hours watching some obscure sport on a laptop.
If it's not in the main schedules it doesn't register.

Boxing is very high profile during the Olympics, it's luck to get a mention any other time unless KT wins the world title for the millionth time.
There's no big welcomes at Dublin airport except once every four years.
Just the way it is I suppose.

sideswipe

Henry9 wrote: »

That doesn't contradict what was said. BBC showed DL on BBC3 or 4 last week, some people stay up til the early hours watching some obscure sport on a laptop.
If it's not in the main schedules it doesn't register.

Boxing is very high profile during the Olympics, it's luck to get a mention any other time unless KT wins the world title for the millionth time.
There's no big welcomes at Dublin airport except once every four years.
Just the way it is I suppose.

So what is it then- running is niche sport on TV or running is niche period? If your proclaiming the later to be true, I'd have to disagree.

hypersonic

sideswipe wrote: »

So what is it then- running is niche sport on TV or running is niche period? If your proclaiming the later to be true, I'd have to disagree.

where do you think running is? 7th maybe 8th in Ireland, gaa1, Gaa2, football, rugby, martial arts, golf, cycling, running, swimming, tennis

sideswipe

hypersonic wrote: »

where do you think running is? 7th maybe 8th in Ireland, gaa1, Gaa2, football, rugby, martial arts, golf, cycling, running, swimming, tennis

It's all guesswork but for argument sake lets say your list is correct- I don't believe any of them are niche sports, running included.

b.harte

Henry9 wrote: »

People are very defensive around here.
Nobody can comment unless they meet world class standard themselves?

You absolutely misread my post, and what was said further up the thread. Many here agree that there is nothing special about Kamazes apart from his media profile. The only thing I'm defending is the point that it takes a lot of effort and commitment to run 100 miles, in much the same was as it take commitment to do anything beyond comfort zone. To come on to a forum with a "Who cares" attitude is insulting to both Kamazes or other who run long distances, and is in my mind a fairly crap attitude to present.

Henry9 wrote: »

There's nothing superhuman about what he does, the guy obviously has very high pain and boredom thresholds, but that won't sell many tickets.

Yes & No, at a competitive level, as was stated up-thread, he is not top of the pile. But at a human level going out of your comfort zone is something that most people don't do, so then yes, there is something super-human about him. Super in this case being that he (and others) are doing something beyond what most people consider normal. As for pain & boredom, not sure anyone here can answer for him, I don't find long runs boring at all, but that's just me.As for selling tickets, I think the point of Kamazes, Jurek, Jornet, Roes and many of the other ultra-distance athletes who have books make is that it isn't about tickets, money, or anything it's about a connection with yourself and the environment that is almost spiritual, but I take your point.

Henry9 wrote: »

Good luck to the guy and all, but it wouldn't exactly set my heart racing either.

And that's a good positive attitude to have, even if you don't engage with what the guy does you aren't being negative about him. Unlike the post that triggered this exchange.

Henry9 wrote: »

And what's wrong with being mediocre, have you not realised yet that's what you are too?
Welcome to 99.99% of the human race.

Again, you misread my post, I know I'm mediocre, I also see nothing wrong with it - at all. I will never be fast, I will never make a career out of my running and I don't aspire to do that. But, what I won't subscribe to is a belief that recognition should only go to the top performers, recognition should go to everyone who does something outside their own comfort zone, be it giving up fags and walking a mile or going very long, very slowly in extreme conditions. To each their own but don't dismiss anyone because it isn't to your taste, and that's not aimed at you.

Henry9

Do you care equally about every endeavor which takes a long time to accomplish? Even if you do, most people don't.
Watching sport for me isn't about a plodder grinding out some feat of endurance. Participating is a different story and good luck to him.

Likewise, people outside of their comfort zone, more power to their elbow, but nobody bar their close friends or clubmates will be checking the papers the next morning.

Probably a million people will read the column inches on Dublin-Kerry tomorrow.

I also don't think going out of your comfort zone makes you super human. I think you're stretching yourself there.

Krusty_Clown

hypersonic wrote: »

I'm afraid so, bar the Olympics it just not on most people's radar. where was the tv coverage of the world's, where is the tv coverage the diamond league. Get two lads kicking a bogball against a wall and rte is there!
it's a niche sport, it doesn't bother me but there's no point kidding ourselves.

You're talking about watching sports on tv (which isn't a sport in itself). Running (recreational and competitive) is Ireland's third most popular sport, ahead of soccer, bog-ball, etc. Irish Sports council Report - 2011.

Henry9

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

You're talking about watching sports on tv (which isn't a sport in itself). Running (recreational and competitive) is Ireland's third most popular sport, ahead of soccer, bog-ball, etc. Irish Sports council Report - 2011.

Depends how you define it. Participation is only one element.
You'd have to be pretty obtuse to claim running is more popular than football and GAA.

Kurt Godel

Henry9 wrote: »

Depends how you define it. Participation is only one element.
You'd have to be pretty obtuse to claim running is more popular than football and GAA.

Golf has its own section on the RTE.ie sports page. Ultra running does not have its own section. Obese or not, golf is the better sport- FACT.

pconn062

Kurt Godel wrote: »

Golf has its own section on the RTE.ie sports page. Ultra running does not have its own section. Obese or not, golf is the better sport- FACT.

I thought being obese was a pre-requirement for becoming an ultrarunner? :pac:


Runs away!

Krusty_Clown

Henry9 wrote: »

Depends how you define it. Participation is only one element.
You'd have to be pretty obtuse to claim running is more popular than football and GAA.

The hypothesis was that running was a niche sport. Let's be crystal clear here: running is the third most practiced sport in Ireland, ahead of soccer, GAA and golf. If you want to have a debate about the most popular sport watched on TV, I suggest you take your argument to the TV forum instead of the athletics / running forum.

fleck

While I agree that running is not a niche sport, I don't think the participation figures from that irish sports council survey are definative. According to that survey swimming was the sport with the most participation, but the majority of swimmers are using it as exercise and only a small number are actually competing in competition. While for GAA the reverse would be the case. Where exercise ends and sport begins , well everyone will have there own opinion!

ultrapercy

Kurt Godel wrote: »

Golf has its own section on the RTE.ie sports page. Ultra running does not have its own section. Obese or not, golf is the better sport- FACT.

That is absolutely your opinion and certainly not a fact. In my opinion the handicap system makes amature golf a joke and not really a sport at all. Giving someone a disadvantage to carry simply because they are good or practice more is anti sport. Professional golf is showbusinness like most professional sports.

lynchieboy

If you write FACT after a sentence it means that sentence is irrefutable. FACT.

Kurt Godel

ultrapercy wrote: »

That is absolutely your opinion and certainly not a fact. In my opinion the handicap system makes amature golf a joke and not really a sport at all. Giving someone a disadvantage to carry simply because they are good or practice more is anti sport. Professional golf is showbusinness like most professional sports.

Apologies ultrapercy, I was deliberately trying to be as stupid as some of the more opinionated posts here;). Golf is a leisure industry rather than a sport, but that's not something I'd care to argue or wind up on a forum made up of golfers. Ultrarunning may be a little unfortunate in that it has DK as its poster boy, but it's as competitive as any other sport. Ireland (and this forum) is over-represented on the world stage in ultrarunning, that's something that should be generally championed rather than constantly put down as a niche interest.

hypersonic

Kurt Godel wrote: »

constantly put down as a niche interest.

Being a "niche" sport is not a put down.

Smartguy

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

The hypothesis was that running was a niche sport. Let's be crystal clear here: running is the third most practiced sport in Ireland, ahead of soccer, GAA and golf. If you want to have a debate about the most popular sport watched on TV, I suggest you take your argument to the TV forum instead of the athletics / running forum.

So walking by your definition is the most popular sport in the country.

Krusty_Clown

Smartguy wrote: »

So walking by your definition is the most popular sport in the country.

Firstly, it's not my definition. It's that of the Irish Sports Council. Secondly, if you watch a lot of TV (and I'm guessing you probably do), you see a lot of people walking. So yes, I guess you're right. Can we get back on topic now?

Dean Karnazes has a great set of abs and is a perfect poster boy for Runner's World, but as an ultra runner he is not very competitive. The world is full of people who are better at selling themselves than they are at performing (like this guy). Still, you can hardly blame him. Everyone's got to make a living.

ultrapercy

Kurt Godel wrote: »

Apologies ultrapercy, I was deliberately trying to be as stupid as some of the more opinionated posts here;). Golf is a leisure industry rather than a sport, but that's not something I'd care to argue or wind up on a forum made up of golfers. Ultrarunning may be a little unfortunate in that it has DK as its poster boy, but it's as competitive as any other sport. Ireland (and this forum) is over-represented on the world stage in ultrarunning, that's something that should be generally championed rather than constantly put down as a niche interest.

Sorry my sarcasm detector must be on the blink.

Krusty_Clown

On a related note, I watched a documentary on the genuine article (Killian Jornet) over the weekend. What an incredible runner. I don't know whether I'm most impressed with the number of wins he has had at just age 25, or the fact that ultra-running is not even his main passion (which is ski mountaineering).

Vo2 max: 85-90 ml/min/kg
Lung capacity: 5.3 litres

You've got to think that having a high Vo2max / lactate threshold does come into play, when you are racing up peaks, like Mont Blanc. Ultra running doesn't just take place on flat roads, you know..

PaulieC

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

On a related note, I watched a documentary on the genuine article (Killian Jornet) over the weekend.

Was it summits of my life or something else ? If something else, can you furnish deets ?

Smartguy

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

Firstly, it's not my definition. It's that of the Irish Sports Council. Secondly, if you watch a lot of TV (and I'm guessing you probably do), you see a lot of people walking. So yes, I guess you're right. Can we get back on topic now?

Dean Karnazes has a great set of abs and is a perfect poster boy for Runner's World, but as an ultra runner he is not very competitive. The world is full of people who are better at selling themselves than they are at performing (like this guy). Still, you can hardly blame him. Everyone's got to make a living.

Hey mate I watch hardly no tv. Very sensitive.

Krusty_Clown

Smartguy wrote: »

Hey mate I watch hardly no tv. Very sensitive.

I'm sorry if you're very sensitive; I meant no offence. Merely extending your own argument.

PaulieC wrote:

Was it summits of my life or something else ? If something else, can you furnish deets ?

Yep, Summits of my life. It was more about ski Mountaineering than ultra-running/mountaineering, but a good watch anyway. Incredible the risks these guys take.

average_runner

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

I'm sorry if you're very sensitive; I meant no offence. Merely extending your own argument.


Yep, Summits of my life. It was more about ski Mountaineering than ultra-running/mountaineering, but a good watch anyway. Incredible the risks these guys take.

Reading his booked at the moment. What i like about it is that its a book about his adventures and not trying to promote himself or push something on you.

PaulieC

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

Yep, Summits of my life. It was more about ski Mountaineering than ultra-running/mountaineering, but a good watch anyway. Incredible the risks these guys take.

Yeah, I have that. It was surprisingly touching for what was ostensibly a running/mountaineering documentary

opus

hypersonic wrote: »

Ultra running is a niche with in a niche within a niche sport, I have time for anybody who takes their sport seriously, but ultra running is a tiny speck on the sporting landscape.

Not everywhere mind you, I was impressed that in South Africa they had a live broadcast for Comrades (~54m ultramarathon) for ~13 hours on one of the national channels with a fairly high number of viewers.

An average 1,278,187 viewers watched Live coverage of the 2013 Comrades Marathon, up 6% compared to 2012 (TAMS, 2013)

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

Yep, Summits of my life. It was more about ski Mountaineering than ultra-running/mountaineering, but a good watch anyway. Incredible the risks these guys take.

Just watched the trailer on YouTube & it looks pretty amazing, will try and track down a copy to take a look.

Enduro

Interesting thread

On the OP, Karnazes is not a great runner at all (several posters on this thread would be faster than him), and is an even worse sportsman. Have a read of this article to see how low he is prepared to go to inflate his already massive ego and keep the PR bandwagon rolling.

It's a pity so many people look up to him. Even in a purely American context there are so many much better runners, who are also far more impressive sportspeople and more impressive humans, than him. Scott Jurek is just one example. You could create a very long list.

nerraw1111

I don't get how people still talk about DK. A simple google will reveal he's not a great ultra runner, not even close. And the way he tried to stiff Richard Donovan was unreal.

Sure he's the world's most famous ultra runner but the most famous band at the moment is one direction. Go figure.

I don't think he's ever been the poster boy for ultra running. Sure he hasn't won anything of note. Which isn't to deny he's done great adventures and is a decent runner.

Scott Jurek had some interesting quotes on DK. http://www.atrailrunnersblog.com/2007/07/what-scott-jurek-really-thinks-about.html?m=1

As an armchair ultra fan, his name never comes up. Ever.

Exciting time for ultra running with the annoucment of a World Series. Seems DK is trying to get in on that.

How he can get a profile in the guardian in 2013 while kilian jornet is around is mad. It's not like there's a dearth of amazing long distance ultra runners.

Cabaal

Enduro wrote: »

Interesting thread

On the OP, Karnazes is not a great runner at all (several posters on this thread would be faster than him), and is an even worse sportsman. Have a read of this article to see how low he is prepared to go to inflate his already massive ego and keep the PR bandwagon rolling.

fecken hell, something never sat right about that particular marathon but never suspected it was that bloody bad. Thats an awful situation for Richard Donovan

ThisRegard

I don't actually think I ever heard of Karnazes before, heard, saw and read plenty about Jornet and Jurek though.

cianc

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

On a related note, I watched a documentary on the genuine article (Killian Jornet) over the weekend. What an incredible runner. I don't know whether I'm most impressed with the number of wins he has had at just age 25, or the fact that ultra-running is not even his main passion (which is ski mountaineering).

Vo2 max: 85-90 ml/min/kg
Lung capacity: 5.3 litres

You've got to think that having a high Vo2max / lactate threshold does come into play, when you are racing up peaks, like Mont Blanc. Ultra running doesn't just take place on flat roads, you know..

Thanks for this, just grabbed a copy to watch over the weekend. Trailer has me on the hook.

Cabaal

He's back in the media again

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/oct/17/dean-karnazes-greece-marathon-ultra-arcadia-messina-child-obesity

Doesn't say the distance he's doing but rather big claim for him to say "My biomechanics are unique",

Enduro

Yianis Kouros will be going nuts, I imagine. That's one poorly written piece of fanboy journalism.

Cabaal

Enduro wrote: »

Yianis Kouros will be going nuts, I imagine. That's one poorly written piece of fanboy journalism.

Got to agree about how its written, very poor
Can't honestly blame anyone for going nuts over it, sure its great that Karnazes has done some good but this shouldn't be happening at the expense of better runners.