No one more sorry than I about what happened

thebman

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

I must have missed that election result. What year was that?

micosoft wrote: »

FG were not voted in with a massive majority. Seriously, if you aren't even aware that we have a coalition in place you support my point the electorate are broken.

Seriously if you aren't aware by majority I was referring to the majority in the coalition, something must be wrong with you given we always have coalitions in this country....

micosoft wrote: »

Disingeneous. No party would get elected with an anti-cyclical policies because that's what the electorate want is pro cyclical. The policies parties present are the policies they could get votes for. To suggest some party would suicidally go against that flow to be annihilated is naive in the extreme.

It isn't disingenuous and it isn't suicide since no party tried, you can't make these statements.

These are all just assumptions on your part to support your preconceived mindset that this is what the electorate want and it makes up part of the problem with politics in this country.

There is no evidence that the Irish people don't want a stable, functioning economy with reasonable growth over boom/bust cycles. Only evidence that the political system has failed catastrophically to offer such an alternative that they could vote for.

What is wrong with Irish politics is exactly this lack of respect for the electorate and what they are looking for.

micosoft

thebman wrote: »

Seriously if you aren't aware by majority I was referring to the majority in the coalition, something must be wrong with you given we always have coalitions in this country....

No, because I suspect very few people in this country hold your frankly bizarre interpretation of a "massive majority". You should be a contender in Rio for tautological gymnastics with that one.

thebman wrote: »

It isn't disingenuous and it isn't suicide since no party tried, you can't make these statements.

These are all just assumptions on your part to support your preconceived mindset that this is what the electorate want and it makes up part of the problem with politics in this country.

And why has no party tried. Answer me that.

thebman wrote: »

There is no evidence that the Irish people don't want a stable, functioning economy with reasonable growth over boom/bust cycles. Only evidence that the political system has failed catastrophically to offer such an alternative that they could vote for.

They elected FF into power three times from 97 - 07 on the basis of giveaway budgets. Where is your evidence that they do?

thebman wrote: »

What is wrong with Irish politics is exactly this lack of respect for the electorate and what they are looking for.

The lack of respect is entirely due to understanding that persons such as yourself vote...

What do we want! "stable, functioning economy with reasonable growth over boom/bust cycles"!
Who will we vote for! " That politician that will sort out the retrospective planning, cut taxes, build a local a&e down the boreen etc etc etc"

thebman

micosoft wrote: »

And why has no party tried. Answer me that.

Our political parties aren't exactly known for thinking outside the box or fresh thinking now are they?

They elected FF into power three times from 97 - 07 on the basis of giveaway budgets. Where is your evidence that they do?

And what where the alternatives in that time only bigger give away budgets? I'm tired of hearing FF defend their give away budgets of previous years now they are in opposition by saying their budgets were more conservative than the oppositions proposals for more spending.

By your assertions, the electorate should have been voting for the opposition since they would have given even more away.

Didn't work for the opposition though as the electorate where actually voting for the party offering the budget giving away the least at the time.

The lack of respect is entirely due to understanding that persons such as yourself vote...

What do we want! "stable, functioning economy with reasonable growth over boom/bust cycles"!
Who will we vote for! " That politician that will sort out the retrospective planning, cut taxes, build a local a&e down the boreen etc etc etc"

Right so after a number of posts on this, basically your still just assuming the electorate have no interest in proper policies with absolutely nothing to back this up bar a sense of arrogance over anyone that cares to disagree...

Have you considered a career in politics :pac:

View

thebman wrote: »

And what where the alternatives in that time only bigger give away budgets?

In '97, FG & Labour were the governing parties. They did not go to the polls advocating "giveaway" budgets. It is a serious re-write of history to suggest that the electorate voted for FF & the PDs because they thought they'd be more restrained in office than FG & Labour.

Likewise, in '02, when the economy had been running okay, Labour proposed a totally different strategy to that of the government's giveaway "low taxes" policies which were - even at that time - clearly causing property prices to soar. And, the response of the electorate to Labour's alternative ideas was to hammer them.

As such, it is nonsense to say there was no alternative. There was but people preferred us to pursue the policies we did. And we did so until the bitter end...

micosoft

thebman wrote: »

Our political parties aren't exactly known for thinking outside the box or fresh thinking now are they?

But they are well known for doing anything that will get them a vote.

thebman wrote: »

And what where the alternatives in that time only bigger give away budgets? I'm tired of hearing FF defend their give away budgets of previous years now they are in opposition by saying their budgets were more conservative than the oppositions proposals for more spending.

By your assertions, the electorate should have been voting for the opposition since they would have given even more away.

Didn't work for the opposition though as the electorate where actually voting for the party offering the budget giving away the least at the time.

Rewrite of history. Plenty of options - the Greens offered a strong and coherent policy on housing for example.

thebman wrote: »

Right so after a number of posts on this, basically your still just assuming the electorate have no interest in proper policies with absolutely nothing to back this up bar a sense of arrogance over anyone that cares to disagree...

Have you considered a career in politics :pac:

Unlike you I don't pretend the electorate voted for something they manifestly did vote for. I presented three general elections as evidence. What have you provided other then your own overweening opinion as a "voice of the people" suggesting that the electorate may have voted for Fianna Fail three times in a row but really didn't you know, mean it and if the politicians were any good they would have ignored their mandate and run the country properly. An unaccountable electorate. Nice.

Tell you what - given the politicians are so bereft of ideas why don't you stand?

Slick50

goose2005 wrote: »

That was Fine Gael's policy in 2002 - they were annihilated.

Have you any links to support that? This is what I've come across...

Fine Gael has launched its election manifesto in Dublin, promising a new 30% tax rate for moderate wage earners.

Fianna Fáil's Charlie McCreevey said the scope for tax cuts was limited.


&.... 1. Create health services that work, ensuring that cost and capacity don’t prevent people from getting treatment that is high quality, timely and close to home. That means:
- Planned expansion of vital capacity (2,300 Acute Beds, 1,500 Convalescence).
- Free Health Insurance for every child under 16.
- Free GP visits for every child under 5.
- Confront the rise of suicide.
- Extend medical cards to 100,000 more families.
and plenty more "giveaway" sh*te.