Legalization of drugs how would it work ?

Jumboman

For those people who advocate the Legalization of all drugs can you explain how it would work. Would it mean that you could buy heroin in every off licence ?

krudler

Off licence? extra clubcard points in Tesco.

lkionm

It would be a great solution to the jobs initiative.

Now every drug lushing scumbag is a sole trader.


Good on you rashers, a true symbol of hope.

kraggy

I'm not sure, but it makes sense to decriminalise them. I just watched a documentary tonight calle How To Make Money Selling Drugs and there was an upsetting story about a woman who got 25 years prison because she happened to be in a house where a large amount of drugs were being stored. She was not aware of this.

But because of the "wisdom" of mandatory sentencing, she got sentenced to 25 years. Her teenage daughter was interviewed and was bawling her eyes out.

So sad.

I think Portugal's decriminalisation seems to be working. The number of addicts is decreasing. More money has been pumped in to education and treatment rather than being wasted on incarceration.

It absolutely maddens me to hear of weeks of surveillance having been carried out by the Gardaí prior to the arrest of people for operating grow houses here in Ireland. That's time and money that could be used more beneficially in other crime prevention/detection.

Fr_Dougal

Ted, you're not going to believe it! Clint Eastwood's been arrested for a crime he didn't - oh, wait, it's a film.

shopaholic01

Pharmacies seem the obvious solution, used needles can also be returned and placed in sharps boxes by the user themselves.

kneemos

You just have to look at happened with the Head Shops recently to see what happens when drugs are legalised,queues down the street every weekend night.
Legal means acceptable which they aren't.

Frosty McSnowballs

Buy one get one free?

Squidgy Black

No, there would be dispensaries set up, like off-licences for drugs. They're then taxed etc like alcohol.

In reality, all drugs will never be legalised. Maybe marijuana, but certainly not soon, we always follow after everyone else like the lost dog in the park.

kjl

I think they should have centers that distribute heroin like they do methadone. One shot a day to anyone that wants it and it must be consumed on the premise under tight scrutiny. Any serious addict would not have problem behaving themselves if they are threatened with losing their daily fix.

Crime rate would drop almost instantly and all it would cost us is the price of the centers and heroin which if legal would be very very cheap to provide.

Ecstasy, LSD and Mushrooms, I feel could be distributed in clubs or head shops, however proper use should be given and perhaps you might have to hear a lecture like you do with codeine based products.

Cocaine, Meth, etc, I would perfect to keep illegal, but failing that make them a controlled substance. In order to get some you would need to visit a GP who will give you a physical as well as educated you on the dangers of the drugs and the prescribe you some based on body weight

Perhaps in this drug eutopia we could educate our children that all drugs including alcohol have negative outcomes and don't just indoctrinate them into a society that says one drug is ok, perfectly normal and a way of life and the other is so bad you will die the first time you take it.

theGEM

Jumboman wrote: »

For those people who advocate the Legalization of all drugs can you explain how it would work. Would it mean that you could buy heroin in every off licence ?

In the pharmacy, like before when it was legal:

http://io9.com/how-todays-illegal-drugs-were-marketed-as-medicines-510258499

Banning drugs caused more problems then good and just fed criminality. The sooner we legalise the better.

MadsL

Czech Republic made possession of reasonable amounts of all drugs legal but outlawed sale. This targeted dealers but left users alone.

Then they reversed that and made possession illegal for a 10 year period.

They found drug addiction levels increased.

They recently reverted to the possession of all drug legal but sales illegal position.

hatrickpatrick

kneemos wrote: »

You just have to look at happened with the Head Shops recently to see what happens when drugs are legalised,queues down the street every weekend night.

And...?

Legal means acceptable which they aren't.

Why aren't they?

BOHtox

kneemos wrote: »

You just have to look at happened with the Head Shops recently to see what happens when drugs are legalised,queues down the street every weekend night.
Legal means acceptable which they aren't.

Head shop products aren't drugs. They were poison, bath salts and other products not suitable for human consumption. It does not represent what it would be like if drugs were legal. The main reason is the head shop products were not taken by people until the shops sold them. Marijuana, cocaine etc have been around for decades/centuries.

Who says drugs aren't acceptable? I'm 19, did the leaving cert, in college and am in the top 3 earners of the closest 15/20 people of my age. Am I less of a person if I occasionally decide I need a joint to get away from the pressures of life? Are Obama, JFK or Carter any less people or are their achievements belittled because they have smoked weed?

People can get up on their high horses about drugs while they, ironically, have no problem with caffeine, alcohol or cigarettes.

If a person chooses to do something with their own body in private that is of the concern of no one else, they should not be criminalised or frowned upon!

johnnyskeleton

Jumboman wrote: »

For those people who advocate the Legalization of all drugs can you explain how it would work. Would it mean that you could buy heroin in every off licence ?

It will be government controlled. So any citizen can buy one once they provide a letter from their local td. And that td is currently in a government party.

Then you simply fill in a form and your heroin will be delivered within 2 weeks.

Except when it arrives, it's not a heroin, its an Irish passport. In order to get your heroin you will have to fill out an "Incorrect order replacement form 2E". Make sure you don't fill in form 2D or you'll have to start again from scratch.

If you need help filling in your forms, you can contact the helpline. The helpline has over a hundred operators to take your call, but there is noone trained in telling you how to fill out the form so they just tell you to call back next week.

In the meantime, the government will have to spend billions bailing out the drug cartels who send us a load of heroin each day, but because it is past its arbitrary best before date (while waiting for the application forms to be stamped) it has to be destroyed.

Thus, no one gets any heroin, we all get something to complain about, and the country increases its debt. Hurray!

Royal.Baby

adverts, done deal etc could be used as hubs where you bid for the best quality gear.

kneemos

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

And...?



Why aren't they?

Addictive ones obviously aren't.
All of them are mind altering in some way.
Would you legalise something you wouldn't want your kids to use.

MadsL

kneemos wrote: »

Would you legalise something you wouldn't want your kids to use.

Nicotine and alcohol spring immediately to mind.

kneemos

MadsL wrote: »

Nicotine and alcohol spring immediately to mind.

Neither of which you would legalise.

MadsL

kneemos wrote: »

Neither of which you would legalise.

If you were to go back in time would you recommend legalising tobacco?

kneemos

MadsL wrote: »

If you were to go back in time would you recommend legalising tobacco?

Have to say no.
Alcohol perhaps.

Cookie_Monster

MadsL wrote: »

Nicotine and alcohol spring immediately to mind.

driving too, probably coffee and don't forget divorce :eek:

smellslikeshoes

Legalize Cannabis completely. Decriminalise possession of everything else with the aim to help those found in possession rather than punish them with prison.

shleedance

kneemos wrote: »

Addictive ones obviously aren't.
All of them are mind altering in some way.
Would you legalise something you wouldn't want your kids to use.

What would legalising drugs have to do with children? I don't think anyone agrees here that it should be legal for kids.

If drugs become legal, there will have to be an age restriction, same as alcohol and tobacco.

kneemos

shleedance wrote: »

What would legalising drugs have to do with children? I don't think anyone agrees here that it should be legal for kids.

If drugs become legal, there will have to be an age restriction, same as alcohol and tobacco.

Kids as in young adults.

hatrickpatrick

kneemos wrote: »

Addictive ones obviously aren't.
All of them are mind altering in some way.
Would you legalise something you wouldn't want your kids to use.

For adults, yeah. It's not my business what anyone else chooses to do with their own body, including any kids I have once they've turned 18.

I Heart Internet

Jumboman wrote: »

For those people who advocate the Legalization of all drugs can you explain how it would work. Would it mean that you could buy heroin in every off licence ?

It would work just as the, currently legal and presciption controlled, methadone market works.

So if you think you'd like to see more methadone addicts on the streets and you think it's good for them, legalise away.

conorhal

Legalizing soft drugs merely makes casual use socially acceptable and denies me the illicit thrill of doing something subversive and illegal until I grow out of it. Frankly we don't need to legalize any further intoxicating substances, we've enough trouble with alcohol without adding a whole host of new drugs into the mix. Who knows what social, economic and health fallout we would face as a result, just look at the multi billion cost of alcohol abuse, from minor costs like sick days to major ones like liver transplants.

What needs to be done is the legalization of hard drugs. But not by putting them next to Vodka in the off license.
Here's what you do:
Anybody that wants it can get free class A drugs from a licensed clinic as long as they register themselves as a state drug addict.

This has several immediate effects.
The crime rate drops - Junkies don't have to spend all day shop lifting to buy drugs
Fewer addicts die from accidental overdoses or tainted drugs - State quality control
Drug dealers and other vicious criminals have to seek alternative employment.

The long term effects include:

Reduced number of new addicts to class A drugs. - With the dealers out of business because there's no profit in class A drugs (who wants to owe a violent criminal money when you can get the same junk for free from the state) dealers will not sell them, thus resulting in fewer addicts, after all, what casual drug user is going to register with the state as an addict just to try out a class A drug?

More users will get clean resulting in fewer registered addicts -
licensed clinics that supply the drugs will also have a mandate to provide a treatment programme for those that want it. So the supplier will be steering addicts towards recovery rather than addiction.

A decreese in HIV and Hepititis transmission. A drug clinic unlike a drug dealer can give you a blood test and clean needles.


That's my 10 cents worth.

HowAreWe

Personally I wouldn't want the "Legalization" of all drugs. I think they should all be decriminalized.

I wouldn't class Heroin,Cocaine,LSD,Ketamine and some others in the same boat as say Marijuana or MDMA (ecstasy) which I think should be legal through some form of distribution. Don't see the problem with medicinal Marijuana or even one step further complete legalization and I think MDMA (ecstasy) should be available for use in clubs that must provide test kits . People do it anyway so why not save lives instead of "fighting crime"?

I find it odd that our society believes it's ok to go and drink 15-16 pints and end up in a state where drama,fights,tears etc. occur. Whereas if you take a pill which gives you a euphoric state of a mind, you're a "junkie". It's a bit hypocritical.
Seeing people with jaws hanging out munching on the sides of their mouth is not a pretty sight I will admit, but the drug user should know his or her limit just like they have with another drug, alcohol.

Maybe Marijuana will be legal some day in Ireland but that's about it.

Here's an interesting graph.

Zebra3

If FF are in power they'll only be on sale through pubs.

conorhal

HowAreWe wrote: »

Personally I wouldn't want the "Legalization" of all drugs. I think they should all be decriminalized.


I find it odd that our society believes it's ok to go and drink 15-16 pints and end up in a state where drama,fights,tears etc. occur. Whereas if you take a pill which gives you a euphoric state of a mind, you're a "junkie". It's a bit hypocritical.

.

In fairness, does society endorse drinking 15 pints and getting in a fight?
I don't think so.

jimmycrackcorm

I can't see how legalising cannabis makes sense when we're trying to discourage smoking for health reasons unless the answer is brownies.

HowAreWe

conorhal wrote: »

Inf fairness, does does society endorse drinking 15 pints and getting in a fight?
I don't think so.

No you're right, but everyone does it. I see it every time I go out.

I Heart Internet

HowAreWe wrote: »

No you're right, but everyone does it. I see it every time I go out.

Almost nobody does it (drink 15 pints and get in a fight).

Some people abuse alcohol alright though.

rubadub

lkionm wrote: »

It would be a great solution to the jobs initiative.

Now every drug lushing scumbag is a sole trader.

Yeah, like when prohibition was lifted in the US, its well known that every single person involved in the legal alcohol trade is a scumbag...

kneemos wrote: »

You just have to look at happened with the Head Shops recently to see what happens when drugs are legalised,queues down the street every weekend night.

I don't see your point? Of course there is queues, ever been in a busy pub on a saturday night? or an off licence on Christmas eve or new years, or holy thursday.

If there was very little demand for these things there would be little call for them to be legalized. Why would you spend a fortune introducting taxation & regulation, admin etc for something which would never sell?

Mike 1972

kneemos wrote: »

Would you legalise something you wouldn't want your kids to use.

I wouldnt want my 12 year old driving on the motorway but wouldnt be outlawing cars and closing the motorways.

kneemos

Mike 1972 wrote: »

I wouldnt want my 12 year old driving on the motorway but wouldnt be outlawing cars and closing the motorways.

What about drugs though?

frag420

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

I can't see how legalising cannabis makes sense when we're trying to discourage smoking for health reasons unless the answer is brownies.

If the powers that be were interested in the nations health they would ban cigarettes altogether!! However they can't and/or won't as they make too much tax from sales. Drugs will never be legalised/decriminalised so long as publicans have their hands in the politicians pockets massaging their balls!!

Son Of A Vidic

kneemos wrote: »

You just have to look at happened with the Head Shops recently to see what happens when drugs are legalised,queues down the street every weekend night.
Legal means acceptable which they aren't.

Of course you couldn't make them legal, sure wouldn't that end all the brown envelopes under the table. And we couldn't have that. Criminality means big profits and not just for the criminals.

shleedance

kneemos wrote: »

Kids as in young adults.

Don't backpedal. Young adults are not kids. Your post was one of those "will somebody think of the children?!?!?!" types.

shleedance

kneemos wrote: »

What about drugs though?

Why are you focusing on kids again when you said "young adults"?

StephenHendry

good thread OP, tbh i would be in favour of legalising certain drugs like cannabis etc. but obviously not the serious stuff like cocaine etc. however i don't think it will happen here for a few generations at least especially with all the controversy the headshops caused in 09.

legalising would actual remove the black market taking the profits away from the crims. to think the governement could make revenue from the tax from the likes of cannabis etc. if it was legal, then there wouldn't be the need to overtax alcohol etc. anyway i don't think that will happen anyway , nice thought though

kneemos

shleedance wrote: »

Don't backpedal. Young adults are not kids. Your post was one of those "will somebody think of the children?!?!?!" types.

Your kids don't stop being your kids at a certain age.Obviously there's different understandings of the word.

shleedance

Regulate it and make it safer too. I would allow harder drugs too, but have stricter regulations on them. It would also boost the economy, if done right.

shleedance

kneemos wrote: »

Your kids don't stop being your kids at a certain age.Obviously there's different understandings of the word.

From young adults to "your kids". Right.

They're not kids once they hit 18. They're allowed to do whatever they want then by law. If they want to take drugs by then, let them. No problem with that if they do it responsibly.

Sunglasses Ron

Hell in a handbasket. The Dutch have a love hate relationship with smoke, and the pervasive attitude it creates for street dealing of harder drugs to tourists. In Dutch society anyone beyond the age of 30 who still smokes is seen to be a waster in the same way lads in Ireland who are locked every night beyond the age of 30 are regarded as alcoholics. Most Dutch I've met haven't been inside a coffee shop beyond the age of 21, to be a stoner beyond 30 is seen as embarrassing.


Illegal drugs are illegal for a reason. I say this as someone who was addicted to hash, love ecstasy, thinks coke is ****ing bollocks butt knows people who have ruined themselves on it, and has a serious disrespect for Bill Hicks devotees.

Bill Hicks was a moron. An utterly blinkered view of the world twat of the highest order. The reason he wasn't popular in the US wasn't because he was too edgy the reason was that he was a retard. A bumbling recovering abuser moron.

Hash is a gateway drug.

If you disagree, you are 15 years old. Mentally at least.

Mike 1972

Nope the two main gateway drugs are legal.

kneemos wrote: »

What about drugs though?

I thik everyone else here gets the point I was making. Even my 12 year old does.

rubadub

Sunglasses Ron wrote: »

I say this as someone who was addicted to hash

How did you manage that? Were you smoking it with tobacco by any chance?

Most of these "addicts" are like an alcoholic claiming they are hooked on 7up, while neglecting to mention the vodka they take with it.

Sunglasses Ron wrote: »

Hell in a handbasket. The Dutch have a love hate relationship with smoke, and the pervasive attitude it creates for street dealing of harder drugs to tourists

Cannabis is illegal in holland, this does cause lots of problems still.

Sunglasses Ron wrote: »

In Dutch society anyone beyond the age of 30 who still smokes is seen to be a waster in the same way lads in Ireland who are locked every night beyond the age of 30 are regarded as alcoholics.

Not sure of your point, so a guy in his 70's who enjoys a threshold amount of cannabis once a year in Holland is viewed as a waster? or is it just complete stoners in coffee shops every-night completely zonked? in which case I don't think age matters much.

Sunglasses Ron wrote: »

Hash is a gateway drug.

If you disagree, you are 15 years old. Mentally at least.

Oh dear. Even our own gardai have unofficially dropped the gateway nonsense, made them look like complete eejits.

Sunglasses Ron

rubadub wrote: »

How did you manage that? Were you smoking it with tobacco by any chance?

Most of these "addicts" are like an alcoholic claiming they are hooked on 7up, while neglecting to mention the vodka they take with it.

Cannabis is illegal in holland, this does cause lots of problems still.


Not sure of your point, so a guy in his 70's who enjoys a threshold amount of cannabis once a year in Holland is viewed as a waster? or is it just complete stoners in coffee shops every-night completely zonked? in which case I don't think age matters much.


Oh dear. Even our own gardai have unofficially dropped the gateway nonsense, made them look like complete eejits.

If I showed this to my Dutch friends, holy god they would laugh. I used to be like yourself mind, before I got straight and realised how badly hash was impacting my life. Whilst neither is desirable, being a fully functioning successful adult is a lot easier for chronic alcoholics than it is for people addicted to smoke. Smoke is a great buzz when you're young but jesus it is a crippling drug when it come to getting people out of their rut. In all truth the only illegal drug that, IMO, improves your life, is sweet sweet ecstasy. It changed my life for the better. But coke, hash, poppers, acid, horrible crap.

Days 298

Sunglasses Ron wrote: »

If I showed this to my Dutch friends, holy god they would laugh. I used to be like yourself mind, before I got straight and realised how badly hash was impacting my life. Whilst neither is desirable, being a fully functioning successful adult is a lot easier for chronic alcoholics than it is for people addicted to smoke.

What?

Sunglasses Ron

Days 298 wrote: »

What?

There are a lot more financially successful raging alcoholics who take a swig on the job than there are financially successful businessmen who spark up three times in the work day.