House Alarm Activation

cerastes

anyone know the wattage on the 4k7 resistors in the 350 panel,

KoolKid

I'm posting off the top of my head here, but I think it's quarter watt.

cerastes

With the weather didnt get to check the bell wiring,
but it seems to be fully functional after changing some wires on the panel, so bells, led and strobe all work, for the moment that suits me, I plan to check that bell wiring all the same.
Im thinking of connecting the internal bell to the external bell as I dont like bells running on even for more than 5 minutes.
Then keep the strobe off the internal bell connections, so it doesnt have to time out, until its disarmed.
I got the dialler working, just have not had a chance to hide the phone wire. Could get the phone OR the dialler to work but not together and after wiring in a second phone wire to the dialler realised that "tel 2" is not functional on my modem router and that I had a dsl filter which didnt have a connection for a phone line.
I managed to get the outputs working but Im still a little uncertain about the +ve and -ve.
Im guessing operate in -ve means it opens the circuit to allow a positive voltage to flow from the other connection via a device and the opposite for +ve?
So far, I haven't burned anything out yet, but its an old panel so I dont mind trying this out on it.

To tidy up a bit I plan to hide the phone wire, do the sensors in dual end of line, plus it gives more room in the panel tidies up the mass of tamper loops, put bootlace ferrules on the wire ends.

The functionality is basic over the phone, and the outputs are limited to two on the dialler, even then Im only using one.
Im thinking I could operate a relay from the alarm outputs that follows an alarm activation to set external security lights on which would also have their own day/night sensor, the main problem is running that kind of wiring from the alarm physically, as it doesnt exist now and I think retrofitting it will be awkward and may come under new regulations.

cerastes

Following on from before, I wired in the dialler and its functional, it has alerted me when the alarm has been set off which has only been if I accidentally opened the back door before switching off the alarm.

I set up a key zone but am not sure if its working.

I wired a solid state relay into a zone (the former PA zone), it hasn't ever been used and from the manual, the down/up arrow operated together should do the same job. I set up the zone as a key zone, I thought it was working but only considered it might not be working when I tried to disarm/arm it as I was approaching the house recently.
When setting it up, I checked to see if the output of the dialler operated the relay by ringing from my mobile, it responds with the correct tones and 12v is switched at the relay in the panel.
I used the normally closed connection on the relay, so the zone is closed when setting alarm as Id leave the house.

So, if the alarm went off, I'd have to operate the output of the dialler on, which supplies 12v to the relay, which will open the circuit to that zone, should that unset the alarm? that was my thinking.

To reset, Id operate the output off, shutting off 12v, to close the circuit to the key zone and while unset follows these in the log, it doesnt say the alarm is armed from the log or when I tested recently using the keypad, it doesnt show the alarm is armed there either (after setting it from my mobile).

Im not sure if this is working or if I have configured it right.

Recently when I tried to unset/reset the alarm as I was walking up the road, when I opened the door, the keypad was giving a constant beep tone as if it was waiting for me to set it (tone like when leaving). So I'm unsure if its the tone that exhibits when the door is opened after using the key zone to set.

The log shows a number of key sets (edit called key arm in the log, just checked the log) and unset (key off) in the log as I have tested or tried to operate the key zone. Im not certain the alarm is armed when the alarm is set using the key zone.

Is there something else I need to configure to activate key set/unset?

I changed the settings to allow forced arming and a number of re-arms in the event someone forced a zone open to gain entry, I also allowed something which I think allows the inhibits set to be maintained, dont have the printoff of the manual in front of me right now.

Is there something else I need to do to allow me to set/unset my alarm remotely?

altor

If you arm with the keyswitch it should arm normally. Then you need to close and open again to rearm.
Is this the problem?

cerastes

altor wrote: »

If you arm with the keyswitch it should arm normally. Then you need to close and open again to rearm.
Is this the problem?

the keyswitch? do you mean the keypad?
I have an aritech 350, but my dialler isnt the aritech dialler, I just operate the output via my mobile calling my landline.
The output works and it switches 12V.

Not sure what you mean close and open again to rearm? do you mean the entry exit? Im trying to do this as if I was arming/disarming it remotely.

altor

cerastes wrote: »

the keyswitch? do you mean the keypad?
I have an aritech 350, but my dialler isnt the aritech dialler, I just operate the output via my mobile calling my landline.
The output works and it switches 12V.

Not sure what you mean close and open again to rearm? do you mean the entry exit? Im trying to do this as if I was arming/disarming it remotely.

Yes, you are using a keyswitch zone, does not matter what you use to operate it.
When you are arming the system the zone opens to arm the system. It then needs to close so you can open it again to arm.

cerastes

altor wrote: »

Yes, you are using a keyswitch zone, does not matter what you use to operate it.
When you are arming the system the zone opens to arm the system. It then needs to close so you can open it again to arm.

Im using a solid state relay to open and close the circuit,
I've the loop for the key zone normally closed, for when Im not setting it remotely, so its seen as a closed zone.

In your last two lines, the zone needs to open to arm, I think Im doing that, as when I supply 12v by operating the output on the dialler, the NC loop opens.

Not sure what you mean by your last line?
then needs to close? does that not disarm it?

I was a bit uncertain if the zone needed to be closed or opened to arm.

Are you saying I need to open the circuit, then close it and open it again?? to arm.

altor

cerastes wrote: »

Im using a solid state relay to open and close the circuit,
I've the loop for the key zone normally closed, for when Im not setting it remotely, so its seen as a closed zone.

In your last two lines, the zone needs to open to arm, I think Im doing that, as when I supply 12v by operating the output on the dialler, the NC loop opens.

Not sure what you mean by your last line?
then needs to close? does that not disarm it?

I was a bit uncertain if the zone needed to be closed or opened to arm.

Are you saying I need to open the circuit, then close it and open it again?? to arm.

When zone opens arms the system.
Zone needs to close and open to disarm the system again.

I would say your problem is your not closing the zone to allow the system to arm.

cerastes

altor wrote: »

When zone opens arms the system.
Zone needs to close and open to disarm the system again.

I would say your problem is your not closing the zone to allow the system to arm.

Ok, thanks, If this is the case, It looks like I have it set up right.

Seems I just need to modify what Im doing.

Although it raises another question for me, which I might find the answer to when trying this out.

Zone opens, arms
close and open, disarms

if thats the case, it seems I might I need to close and then re-open to arm again?

altor

cerastes wrote: »

Ok, thanks, If this is the case, It looks like I have it set up right.

Seems I just need to modify what Im doing.

Although it raises another question for me, which I might find the answer to when trying this out.

Zone opens, arms
close and open, disarms

if thats the case, it seems I might I need to close and then re-open to arm again?

When using a keyswitch zone, the zone needs to open and close to arm.
To disarm the zone needs to be in a closed state then opened and closed again.
So when you ring the unit it opens the zone. You then need to ring back to close the zone for the system to arm. When you disarm the alarm you need to do the same so the zone is always closed.

The system is buzzing when you return home as the system has not armed. It is seeing the zone as open. Is there a timer on the relay you have installed? This would switch the relay to close the zone to save the second call.

cerastes

altor wrote: »

When using a keyswitch zone, the zone needs to open and close to arm.
To disarm the zone needs to be in a closed state then opened and closed again.
So when you ring the unit it opens the zone. You then need to ring back to close the zone for the system to arm. When you disarm the alarm you need to do the same so the zone is always closed.

The system is buzzing when you return home as the system has not armed. It is seeing the zone as open. Is there a timer on the relay you have installed? This would switch the relay to close the zone to save the second call.

Im pretty sure there is not a timer on the relay, not an obvious one, unless there is some pot I didnt notice, but I dont think so. Wasnt a feature I looked for, sounds like it'd be handy now.
I think what is happening, is as you say, I wasnt doing that.
ie open and then close or close and then open depending on arm/disarming.

I was just sending the signal to open or close.

To arm can I open and then close in the one call?
or do I have to ring back as you say?
I'll be testing to find out, but during the day, in case I set the alarm off.

altor

cerastes wrote: »

Im pretty sure there is not a timer on the relay, not an obvious one, unless there is some pot I didnt notice, but I dont think so.
I think what is happening, is as you say, I wasnt doing that.
ie open and then close or close and then open depending on arm/disarming.

To arm can I open and then close in the one call?
or do I have to ring back as you say?
I'll be testing to find out, but during the day, in case I set the alarm off.

Yeah I would say that is what the problem was. I would say it only changes the state of the relay with each call so you may be looking at ringing the system back to close the zone once you arm or disarm it.

Let us know how you get on

cerastes

well
Ì got it working someway, partial success.

I can arm it remotely (Im doing this while in the room with the panel/dialler and spare keypad), by as you said opening and closing the keyzone and I can do this in the one call.

but when I go to disarm it, it isnt working for me, Ive tried doing this in the same call and seperately in a follow up call. For some reason when I dial in remotely now, I can hear the output operating (it clicks), I didn't notice this before, but it may have been present. The alarm is then behaving like its been tripped, there is a constant beep from the keypad which I disarmed, I didnt let it go off but I suspect the constant beep was the countdown for the entry timer.

I think this is a dialler issue, I went into the menu and I was checking the settings, I couldnt give it my full concentration as I was trying to hold onto my son while doing this to prevent him running into the hall and tripping the PIR, so I'll have to go back to that when Im not minding him and with the printed manual in hand, so I can give it my undivided attention.

It shows in the log that the alarm has key arm and key unset, but it hasnt unset.

I didnt think of it until now, but I might try trip the alarm and see can I disarm it that way by dialling in or waiting for the dialler/alarm to call me and unset it that way.

altor

cerastes wrote: »

well
Ì got it working someway, partial success.

I can arm it remotely (Im doing this while in the room with the panel/dialler and spare keypad), by as you said opening and closing the keyzone and I can do this in the one call.

but when I go to disarm it, it isnt working for me, Ive tried doing this in the same call and seperately in a follow up call. For some reason when I dial in remotely now, I can hear the output operating (it clicks), I didn't notice this before, but it may have been present. The alarm is then behaving like its been tripped, there is a constant beep from the keypad which I disarmed, I didnt let it go off but I suspect the constant beep was the countdown for the entry timer.

I think this is a dialler issue, I went into the menu and I was checking the settings, I couldnt give it my full concentration as I was trying to hold onto my son while doing this to prevent him running into the hall and tripping the PIR, so I'll have to go back to that when Im not minding him and with the printed manual in hand, so I can give it my undivided attention.

It shows in the log that the alarm has key arm and key unset, but it hasnt unset.

I didnt think of it until now, but I might try trip the alarm and see can I disarm it that way by dialling in or waiting for the dialler/alarm to call me and unset it that way.

Any update cerastes?

cerastes

altor wrote: »

Any update cerastes?

Only got as far as my previous post, didnt get a chance to look at it since, I didnt even have time to mull it over, usually if I can think about whats going on I'll come up with some possibility, not sure why the dialler sounds like its operating the output as I call it. I think I need to go into the miscellaneous menu for the alarm and confirm I havent done something there, but really I think its the dialler manual I think I need to be looking at.

altor

cerastes wrote: »

Only got as far as my previous post, didnt get a chance to look at it since, I didnt even have time to mull it over, usually if I can think about whats going on I'll come up with some possibility, not sure why the dialler sounds like its operating the output as I call it. I think I need to go into the miscellaneous menu for the alarm and confirm I havent done something there, but really I think its the dialler manual I think I need to be looking at.

Best thing to do is put a meter on the output to confirm what it is doing when you dial in and hang up.

cerastes

altor wrote: »

Best thing to do is put a meter on the output to confirm what it is doing when you dial in and hang up.

Ok, I suppose I could do it at the output of the dialler although, will it show anything? Im not so sure, the 12v is supplied from the panel (beside the dialler), I think the dialler output just allows teh dialler to switch 12v to , although I already checked where the output connects to the relay. when I operate the relay it switches 12v, this would be the same thing, would it?
Id set the dialler to operate -ve and used 12v from the panel to provide 12v, my understanding is that switching the output allows the dialler to complete a 12v circuit??

Im not sure if I'll be able to ring in with the alarm panel open? it'd be in engineering mode.

Its frustrating, I can set the alarm, but not unset it when its set, I havent tried to unset it if the alarm has been activated.
Really the process of setting/unsetting is a bit tedious,Id had it remembered (all the different codes) but hadnt looked at it in awhile as the alarm had not activated while I was out. Id planned for a more modern system but its just not looking like thats going to happen.

altor

cerastes wrote: »

Ok, I suppose I could do it at the output of the dialler although, will it show anything? Im not so sure, the 12v is supplied from the panel (beside the dialler), I think the dialler output just allows teh dialler to switch 12v to , although I already checked where the output connects to the relay. when I operate the relay it switches 12v, this would be the same thing, would it?
Id set the dialler to operate -ve and used 12v from the panel to provide 12v, my understanding is that switching the output allows the dialler to complete a 12v circuit??

Just trying to rule out if its the operation of the dialer or the input on the alarm that is stopping it working. When you hang up the call does this switch the dialer back to the zone closed?

cerastes

altor wrote: »

Just trying to rule out if its the operation of the dialer or the input on the alarm that is stopping it working. When you hang up the call does this switch the dialer back to the zone closed?

Ok, I'll check this
I dont think there is anything in the alarm menus that could have affected this, ie its just a keyzone.
although, Im not certain what would be causing this from the dialler either, ie ringing in and the output switching automatically.

altor

cerastes wrote: »

Ok, I'll check this
I dont think there is anything in the alarm menus that could have affected this, ie its just a keyzone.
although, Im not certain what would be causing this from the dialler either, ie ringing in and the output switching automatically.

Let us know how you get on.

cerastes

altor wrote: »

Just trying to rule out if its the operation of the dialer or the input on the alarm that is stopping it working. When you hang up the call does this switch the dialer back to the zone closed?

I thought you were making a reccomendation, re-reading it I see you're asking a question.

I'd need to look at it, I thought I checked it as being ok, but only after discovered I wasn't operating the keyzone as you described, I'll need to test it further to see whats going on, maybe even it could be the output and I have a spare one to use instead.