House Alarm Activation

Tropheus

Hi,

Our house alarm has started randomly activating over the last couple of months. It happens once every couple of weeks when we're out and happened a couple of times during the night. It even happened once when the alarm wasn't set.

The message we're getting on the panel is "panel tamper". We have three keypads. One at the front door, one at the back door and one in the hot press beside the main control box.

Does anyone have any idea where the issue could be? I've replaced the battery a couple of times and realise that the alarm activates when the main box is opened. Could it be the trigger switch on the main box or possibly one of the panels?

I probably need to get someone to look at it. The guy that installed it about 10 years ago is no longer in the business. We haven't had a problem since it was installed.

KoolKid

Panel tamper is either the lid on the panel or a tamper circuit wired into the Aux tamper input.
What panel is it?
If its an Aritech CS350 (I think it might be)
Open the panel & disconnect terminals 18 & 19 and Short them out using a short length of cable & replace the lid.
See if that solves it.

Stoner

moved to home security

Tropheus

KoolKid wrote: »

Panel tamper is either the lid on the panel or a tamper circuit wired into the Aux tamper input.
What panel is it?
If its an Aritech CS350 (I think it might be)
Open the panel & disconnect terminals 18 & 19 and Short them out using a short length of cable & replace the lid.
See if that solves it.

Thanks KK. I'll try that. It is an Aritech, but not sure which model.

Tropheus

Hi,

The panel is CD7203 according to the sticker inside. I tried shorting out terminals 18 and 19 to see if that helps. The error I got when I opened the panel was lid tamper. The message we're getting when the alarm activates is panel tamper.

Thanks again.

KoolKid

On the CD72 the AUX tamper connections are 32 33 try short them out.

cerastes

Ive had a similar issue with a CS350
while I have seen tamper in the log, I suspected the alarm box on the outside of the house shifted in the wind, I have also gotten alarms and I dont know from what, it says, Alarm and Alarm G=7.
I got these in a sequence. Havent had an alarm issue in ages and there are a number of activations which might account for someone telling me my alarm went off for a while, but I know the bell cutout is set for 15-20 minutes, I thought the internal alarm was set to cutout also, which I understood to not be normal/standard, but I can find nothing on that in the menus.
My concern is, someone started this sequence of alarms by testing my alarm to the point where they might think I would turn it off. Either they guessed I could do this from inside the house or remotely I dont know

The logs dont give me the exact time of the activation as far as I can see (I can access the engineer setting).

I've considered for a while to upgrade to a newer system, one that I can have self monitoring, via a UPC broadband/phone line or GSM or maybe both.
Connecting cameras to the system that could be viewed from a phone would be a nice but not necessary as it might be too much hassle or added cost.
Id be happy to be able to receive notification of activations and be able to reset.

In the meantime,
does anyone know what
Alarm G=7 is from?

KoolKid

G7 is gross attack that the alarm is seeing on that zone.
More than likely a faulty sensor than anything else.
When viewing the log press zero on an event to view the zone and time and date of the event.
For the internal bell to turn off with the external in timers set all bells cut off to yes.

cerastes

KoolKid wrote: »

G7 is gross attack that the alarm is seeing on that zone.
More than likely a faulty sensor than anything else.
When viewing the log press zero on an event to view the zone and time and date of the event.
For the internal bell to turn off with the external in timers set all bells cut off to yes.

Ok, that has helped
The "All bells cut off" is set to ON, so thats where the internal is already set to turn off then, probably saw it in the manual before.
and I have read the times of the alarms and its duration, someone left me a note but didnt say the time or day it occured.

I was expecting a problem from an upstairs sensor which I suspected was faulty in the bathroom, but
I have the " and "alarm G=7" alarm" for the zone named "Rear downstairs" which is my back door and window.

When you say gross attack, are you suggesting it was subject to a vibration such as a blow? it is a contact and shock sensor. I've never seen this error before when I am present or have just gone out for a few hours and I am begininning to think someone did try to test my alarm from the back of the house.

KoolKid

G7 means the panel has read that level of force from the zone. That information may have been generated from a faulty sensor as well as from a hard bang on a window or door on that zone.
Checking the resistance on that zone would confirm the existence of a faulty sensor or contact on that zone.

cerastes

KoolKid wrote: »

G7 means the panel has read that level of force from the zone. That information may have been generated from a faulty sensor as well as from a hard bang on a window or door on that zone.
Checking the resistance on that zone would confirm the existence of a faulty sensor or contact on that zone.

Ok, I will test the resistance on that loop and see what it is, it has 3 shock sensors, each with their own contact also, I presume the resistance should not be much more than the resistor, its hard to tell how many metres of alarm wire is there as its all buried in the walls.

KoolKid

Remove the resistors from the loop & meter out the resistance. After tapping each sensor the value of the resistance should return to near enough the same value.

dave0071

Does anyone have an install manual for an astec 63, i have a sab fault and want to program it out for now, cant find a manual anywhere on the net.

KoolKid

PMing you that now.
You will need the engineer code also.

cerastes

Picking up somewhere I left off,
Had notions of upgrading myself and decided on the Siemens but its on hold for now, although Id like to and still plan to upgrade for the features, I have to stick with what I got for the moment.

In the interim I noticed a few things I think might not be right, plus I decided to put in a dialler (CS350), after reading the manual front to back, I think I never fully realised or utilised the features of this panel (outputs). It/I could really do with a few more zones and its a squeeze in the cabinet for the battery as it really crammed up to the wiring, which Im not keen on.

I had an issue with the downstairs loop at the back of the house showing an alarm as I previously mentioned, I checked this and narrowed it down to a faulty shock sensor on the back door, so I assume over time all the opening/closing affected the sensor as the sensors on the patio door and kitchen window didnt have the same problem.
When I tested the sensor it didnt give a circuit all the time after I gave it a flick, it seems to have an internal part that re-seats, and this didnt seem to work all the time which seems to have caused my alarm to go off once when I was not around, the sensor is sorted

but there are still a few problems, when the alarm goes off for the back (as it did this morning when I accidentally tripped it as it was on partgaurd overnight) the keypad showed the alarm as Alarm AND bell tamper?
I checked the wiring for the relevant zone and Im sure its circuits of back door,patio door and kitchen window are looped correctly (they actually come back to the panel seperate, but there are not enough zones and the tampers are seperate, so not sure why its showing as Bell tamper also? the siren at the front went off until I disarmed the alarm. I suspect a fault in the external bell wiring for another reason.

Apart from the zone wiring, I checked the zone attributes and it seems ok (although Ive seperate questions about attributes too).

KoolKid

After you disarmed the alarm did the bell tamper clear?

cerastes

KoolKid wrote: »

After you disarmed the alarm did the bell tamper clear?

I believe it cleared, I didnt notice at the time as I just disarmed it, I was rushing to unset it as I didnt want to disturb the neighbours, so I just lashed in my user code,
but as I decided I was going to try do some things with the alarm, I checked the log first and notice that it said
Alarm first AND Tamper at the events before unset, when I go into them further
the eng log shows
Alarm, double press1, comes up with "rear downstairs", followed by time and date
next event is Tamper, double press1, comes up with "Bell Tamper" followed by time and date.
Not sure now if the problem is at the rear door, as it does show up as Alarm, followed by the Tamper as described few lines back.

I actually think there is something wrong with the wiring of the bell, as ever since I had a problem (this was years ago) I got someone to have a look (not sure of their qualifications, it was by recommendation)
Certain things never worked (strobe, hence me thinking the strobe or bellbox was faulty).

I've been playing around with the outputs (recorded original values), when I set out put 6 5 as high low it operates the bell on 56.
I can get the strobe to work and the bell but not together, but Im not sure of the wiring at the bellbox or convinced whats at the panel is right.

cerastes

I just set the output low on 6 and it operates the strobe which I believe is wired into 5?? I dont get that?
I pulled the wire on 5 and the strobe stops, put it back, strobe starts up again, so my green wire is my strobe,

Im begining to suspect the bell wiring is wrong, as when I went into the panel to check things (years ago), Id found some of the zones were just looped off with resistors, I fixed that, but the strobe never worked after that, I know the bell would go off, but not the strobe.

Im thinking the bell tamper is some issue with the wiring back at the panel as the bell seems to be functional, when I play around with it.

KoolKid

Take out the bell negative and connect it to aux -
The external bell will ring. Does bell tamper show up then?

cerastes

KoolKid wrote: »

Take out the bell negative and connect it to aux -
The external bell will ring. Does bell tamper show up then?

Ok, I took out the wire (blue) that was originally in ext bell negative slot 5 and touched off slot 2 (aux neg?) the bell went off, was in eng mode, nothing showed up, exited that and the red light came on keypad, logged in as a user and it came up as tamper followed by bell tamper.

I did it a second time in unarmed state and bell went off but no tamper or red light came on keypad.

(I have not taken the red wire out of the positive side of the ext bell (slot 4), when I did the bell went off, the blue seems to be for negative side (slot 6),
not that Im certain the colours are in the correct order at the bell.

The black is in 16
yellow in 17, there was no resistor in 17 (from the manual it looks like there is one in series with the wire to 17,
but I read here before it could be looped between 16/17, (although (I read or was told) it should be in the bellbox)

Currently its in line on 17, should i loop that across 16/17??

KoolKid

The resistor should be in the bell not the panel.
Sounds like there is a problem with the wiring or the bell itself.
It could be when the bell activates its dragging the unit down and affecting the tamper return back to the panel.

cerastes

KoolKid wrote: »

The resistor should be in the bell not the panel.
Sounds like there is a problem with the wiring or the bell itself.
It could be when the bell activates its dragging the unit down and affecting the tamper return back to the panel.

I think I'll need to get up on a ladder and take off the cover
check the wiring, maybe take a picture and come back, otherwise the alarm seems to function fine, I was really attending to trying to figure out what the strobe problem was, was just reminded when the alarm went off this morning the tamper happened on last alarm activation, but dont now think its related to the back door.
It seems like its just happening on an alarm activation, I could probably test any other zone and I think the same thing will happen.
If I need a bell so be it.

I tested the bell, by operating the outputs to low in the maintenance section of the eng menu, it all seems to work, which leads me to think its the wiring, I did it myself years ago, dont recal how, so maybe when the chap I had along to sort out the problems was confused by my wiring due to it being non standard, I thought it was standard, but it did work. although he was dealing with a different problem.

Anyway, I put it back to what it was as it was too late to be testing outputs with the ext bell attached, I did disconnect the internal and checked all the outputs.

One thing I cannot understand, is why the output for 5 and 6, when i operate one low, it causes the voltage to change in the other?

I plan on using outputs with my dialler, so this concerns me as I'll have to assess what works and how or where I am going wrong, if there is a problem with outputs 5,6, I checked 1234 and they all work fine, so I think I can use these.


Thanks for the input, hope its ok to come back for a bit more information, I'll try keep my posts briefer if thats yes.

Just on the Dialler , the earth on the dialler, manual says connect to a network earth, Im using RJ11, and I read somewhere else other than the manual that any panel earth is suitable, just want to make sure in case there is any interference if I connect it to the general panel earth?

thanks again

KoolKid

I doubt it's related to the dialler. I would try disconnecting both outputs and test again.
After that I'd disconnect the external bell outside and place the resistor across Bell Hold Off & Tamper Return cables.
A pic of the bell wiring both outside and at the panel would help.

cerastes

KoolKid wrote: »

I doubt it's related to the dialler. I would try disconnecting both outputs and test again.
After that I'd disconnect the external bell outside and place the resistor across Bell Hold Off & Tamper Return cables.
A pic of the bell wiring both outside and at the panel would help.

I was going to ask where the resistor (4k7?) went in the bell, so I can try do it in one go, I'll get some pictures up, the panel is no problem, the bell will have to be later as I'll need to sort a ladder.

The earth for the dialler was another question, I didnt think it was related as I only screwed it to the wall last night and started doing the wiring.

The output settings for int/ext bell are set as -,
when I operate them in output test in the maintenance section from high to low, that should allow voltage across the connections 4/5 and 6/7?? I also found the white wire not connected from the bell loop?

cerastes

Some images, camera would not take good pictures close up, had to use the phone.

KoolKid

The image 574 will not fully open for me.
Looking at the panel connections you have the 4k7 resistor across BHO & TR (16 & 17) . If wiring like this you are disabling the tamper. If this is the case the yellow should be left out of terminal 17 (TR)
If you want to check the cable to the external bell remove that resistor, leave all connections connected at the panel, disconnect all connections at the bell and wire the resistor across black & yellow at the bell end.
When thats done try an activation to see if the fault returns.

cerastes

KoolKid wrote: »

The image 574 will not fully open for me.
Looking at the panel connections you have the 4k7 resistor across BHO & TR (16 & 17) . If wiring like this you are disabling the tamper. If this is the case the yellow should be left out of terminal 17 (TR)
If you want to check the cable to the external bell remove that resistor, leave all connections connected at the panel, disconnect all connections at the bell and wire the resistor across black & yellow at the bell end.
When thats done try an activation to see if the fault returns.

I'll try re upload that image, its opening for me though,
with the resistor at 16/17 I put that in myself, after the tamper alarm occured, I tried in series with 17 and then across 16/17 which I thought might defeat and stop the tamper alarm, when I opened the panel recently, there was no resistor in there, I had thought there was and there was a 4k7 loose in the bottom of the panel.
Im sure there is no resistor in the bell box.

So should I remove the resistor and the yellow wire from 17? the yellow wire was in there but no resistor

The image Ive added (574) the yellow wire was not in there, I extended the white wire which was cut short (unknown why) and put it into the + pos for the strobe, I have to confirm it works as when I tested it without that wire, the strobe worked.

I need to confirm the wiring on the bell, that might give more to go on.

KoolKid

Seeing the bell wiring will tell you much more. To close off the tamper remove the wire from 17 but leave the resistor there. Also leave the black in with the other side of the resistor into 16.

cerastes

KoolKid wrote: »

Seeing the bell wiring will tell you much more. To close off the tamper remove the wire from 17 but leave the resistor there. Also leave the black in with the other side of the resistor into 16.

Ok, thanks
I'll remove that for now, I'll arrange a ladder and try look at the bell, take pictures, if the tamper and BHO are obvious, is it put a resistor across them? not sure how that wouldn't defeat the tamper also?

On the upside, I wired up the dialler and it succeeded in test calling me, now I just have to determine which output and for what condition/value to apply.
I had the time for bells to operate as quite low, if any of the outputs 1-4 can latch so that a voice message can be sent to me before or even if the int or ext alarm bell turns off (when I get the bell working right of course).

KoolKid

cerastes wrote: »

if the tamper and BHO are obvious, is it put a resistor across them? not sure how that wouldn't defeat the tamper also?

There has to be a resistor in the bell. If there wasn't it would always have shown tamper. What to do to check the bell wiring is remove all the connections at the bell & wire the resistor across the black and the yellow.
Back at the panel remove the resistor and wire the black into 16 and the yellow into 17.
If the black and yellow cables are good it shouldn't show any tamper. Now activate the alarm . If a tamper shows there is a problem on the cable between the triggers and the tamper return. If the tamper doesn't show its the external bell thats most likely the problem.

cerastes

KoolKid wrote: »

There has to be a resistor in the bell. If there wasn't it would always have shown tamper. What to do to check the bell wiring is remove all the connections at the bell & wire the resistor across the black and the yellow.
Back at the panel remove the resistor and wire the black into 16 and the yellow into 17.
If the black and yellow cables are good it shouldn't show any tamper. Now activate the alarm . If a tamper shows there is a problem on the cable between the triggers and the tamper return. If the tamper doesn't show its the external bell thats most likely the problem.

ok, thanks, it could be next week before I get organised to check the bell,
When I take the cover off, will the bell alarm, as I will be activating the tamper, Im thinking it will, so ear defenders would be needed.
Im not sure if the connections up there are identified, so Im assuming the black and yellow are wired correctly to do this, I'll take pictures and if there are problems or even just to confirm they are correctly connected, I'll post back.