Anna Gunn on Skyler

Dermighty

snausages wrote: »

She reminds me of Rita in Dexter, just an obstruction for the main lead and an annoying one at that.

I thought that Rita was a terrible character, just in a grey area, neither a MILF nor an intelligent character, Dexter had lots of characters in a grey area though, which is why it wasn't a great tv show.

The Corinthian

I suspect that a large part of the reason why Carmella and Skyler are viewed differently is in how they approached the moral dilema of their husbands' criminal activity.

Carmella effectively supported it, was 'loyal' to her man and was fully complicit.

Skyler wasn't. And was. On one side she was complicit, both through her silence and later through her active involvement - not only did she handle the money laundering, but remember that she was pushing WW to sort out the 'Jess problem' (i.e. have him whacked) twoards the end. Yet, at the same time, she was morally torn and frequently was willing to put her own interests and safety ahead of WW, willing to throw him overboard if necessary.

That she was at least morally torn, may make her a better person than Carmella, but it also portrayed her as wanting to have her cake and eat it; standing by her man, but only when it suited. This didn't exactly endear her to many people.

Another observation, which in fairness she's not really to blame for - at least no more than WW was. Going back to the start of the series, she was a housewife in a household that was having financial problems. Rather than help out financially and get a job, WW ended up having to take a second one and this struck me as a bit insane, given there was no real reason why she couldn't.

Remember, she may have been pregnant, but it was still the early enough stages and there was no suggestion that she'd been working for years. Walt Jr hardly needed supervision either, so being a SAHM was a bit of an indulgence - it's not as if she had difficulty getting a part-time job when she eventually had to, after all, and one which undoubtedly would have paid more than WW's car wash gig.

Of course, you can't put all the blame on her for this. She didn't exactly offer to help financially (as far as we know), but WW quite actively didn't feel she should - that he broke bad in the first place was originally motivated by this patriarchal sense of responsibility he felt that he should provide for his family.

However, while they were all part of this culture, I suspect that many viewers subconsciously and wrongly pinned the blame all on her, which likely added to her unpopularity.

Of course, that Anna Gunn was personally targeted for simply having played Skyler, is completely insane.

clairefontaine

Skyler is annoying because she is so passive aggressive. Some of her facial expressions and sanctimony made me want to punch her.

The reason she was HATED was because she was never fully allowed to be aware of what WW was doing and going through, ans because she was seen as getting in the way of WWs fun.

April O Neill

The Corinthian wrote: »

That she was at least morally torn, may make her a better person than Carmella, but it also portrayed her as wanting to have her cake and eat it; standing by her man, but only when it suited. This didn't exactly endear her to many people.

I dunno, I just saw that as her making the most of a bad situation that she couldn't really get out of unless she wanted to see the family ripped apart.

cloudatlas

By the end of the series all the characters are morally compromised, Marie is the one who sees things the clearest which is ironic because Vince leads the viewers to think she's crazy by making her slightly ditzy and a kleptomaniac. Skylar likes to be in control, she wants her family to stay together she sees the potential of the money for allowing them to have a good life. She tries to get Walt to stop several times and is pleased when he calls it a day but by the time they are threatened by Jesse she knows they are in too deep. I suppose my point is the male audience hates her because she is a 'downer' and tries to get Walt to stop several times. She loves her kids, she stands by her husband as far as she can and yet she's still hated. She is initially hated because she tries to stop Walt and then she is hated because her morals are bad. She really can't win. I'd like to ask BrBa fans under what circumstances would they like her? Perhaps they would prefer Marie who is ditzy instead of Skylar who is a strong women who for the most part knows what she wants. In conclusion: fans/ the male audience see strong women as a threat.

clairefontaine

cloudatlas wrote: »

By the end of the series all the characters are morally compromised, Marie is the one who sees things the clearest which is ironic because Vince leads the viewers to think she's crazy by making her slightly ditzy and a kleptomaniac. Skylar likes to be in control, she wants her family to stay together she sees the potential of the money for allowing them to have a good life. She tries to get Walt to stop several times and is pleased when he calls it a day but by the time they are threatened by Jesse she knows they are in too deep. I suppose my point is the male audience hates her because she is a 'downer' and tries to get Walt to stop several times. She loves her kids, she stands by her husband as far as she can and yet she's still hated. She is initially hated because she tries to stop Walt and then she is hated because her morals are bad. She really can't win. I'd like to ask BrBa fans under what circumstances would they like her? Perhaps they would prefer Marie who is ditzy instead of Skylar who is a strong women who for the most part knows what she wants. In conclusion: fans/ the male audience see strong women as a threat.

It starts with the laptop scene on his birthday.

The Corinthian

clairefontaine wrote: »

Skyler is annoying because she is so passive aggressive. Some of her facial expressions and sanctimony made me want to punch her.

Skyler wasn't passive aggressive at all; she frequently confronted WW, it's just that she was conflicted in her self as to what she wanted. Carmella Soprano, on the other hand was a classic passive aggressive personality type, who would keep her frustrations (and passions) bottled up and go behind peoples backs instead.

The reason she was HATED was because she was never fully allowed to be aware of what WW was doing and going through, ans because she was seen as getting in the way of WWs fun.

Carmella was never fully allowed to be aware of what Tony was up to either. And as for getting in the way of WW's 'fun', it probably was interpreted more as acting as a fifth column within what should be a partnership. Whenever WW was faced with a crisis, a problem to solve, she always pursued her own agenda that he would also have to 'solve', rather than work with him - remember, he was ultimately the principle protagonist of the series, a large part of its allure was rooting for him when he found himself cornered by Gus or Tuco or one of the other antagonists, and she repeatedly ended up becoming another antagonist, making such situations more, and not less, complicated.

It was probably this inability to 'stand by her man' that rubbed many up the wrong way.

April O Neill wrote: »

I dunno, I just saw that as her making the most of a bad situation that she couldn't really get out of unless she wanted to see the family ripped apart.

Did she make the most of a bad situation though? Even at the end, had she gone along with WW, they may well have pulled through - instead, she may have made things worse, triggering events that inevitably ended with WW's own death.

Tony EH

In conclusion: fans/ the male audience see strong women as a threat.

I don't think people dislike Skyler out of a sense of misogyny (a lot of women don't like her either).

She's just not that likeable a person. She's constantly moaning and throwing spanners in the works. To much of the audience, she is at the absolute centre of the breakdown in the marriage and she cheats on Walter, as well, which was a real thumbs down from which she never recovered for many people.

And all the while Walter is going through the extreme difficulty of dealing with cancer.

As for Carmella in 'The Sopranos', she's disliked because she's basically a hypocrite. She says one thing but is very comfortable doing the complete opposite. She dislikes Tony's criminal enterprises, yet is happy to benefit from the fruits of it.

And in many ways so did Skyler for a part of 'Breaking Bad'.

Neither are paragons of virtue, nor are they really "strong women" either. They're actually rather weak in my point of view.

snausages

I think people read way too much into this. She's just not a very engaging or interesting character to watch for a lot of people. Carmela was great, Skyler isn't. A 'strong' woman in my book is one with plenty of layers and depth, not necessarily one who is actually 'strong' in the Joss Whedon imagining of the term. Carmela is a strong female character.

cloudatlas

Tony EH wrote: »

She's constantly moaning and throwing spanners in the works. To much of the audience, she is at the absolute centre of the breakdown in the marriage and she cheats on Walter, as well, which was a real thumbs down from which she never recovered for many people.

But moaning and throwing spanners in the works is entirely sane when you find out your husband is a drug dealer! Even when she becomes a part of the 'business' the fans don't like her she is in a no win situation. Her affair was an attempt to force Walt to leave her because he refused (I'm not saying it wasn't morally reprehensible) but a desperate measure. She is deeply compromised but I don't think she was weak, I don't think Marie is weak either. Perhaps she's not likable but on paper Walt shouldn't be either! even Vince Gilligan said that he was bewildered by everyones continued support of Walt coming up to the end.

clairefontaine

The Corinthian wrote: »

Skyler wasn't passive aggressive at all; she frequently confronted WW, it's just that she was conflicted in her self as to what she wanted. Carmella Soprano, on the other hand was a classic passive aggressive personality type, who would keep her frustrations (and passions) bottled up and go behind peoples backs instead.

Carmella was never fully allowed to be aware of what Tony was up to either. And as for getting in the way of WW's 'fun', it probably was interpreted more as acting as a fifth column within what should be a partnership. Whenever WW was faced with a crisis, a problem to solve, she always pursued her own agenda that he would also have to 'solve', rather than work with him - remember, he was ultimately the principle protagonist of the series, a large part of its allure was rooting for him when he found himself cornered by Gus or Tuco or one of the other antagonists, and she repeatedly ended up becoming another antagonist, making such situations more, and not less, complicated.

It was probably this inability to 'stand by her man' that rubbed many up the wrong way.

Did she make the most of a bad situation though? Even at the end, had she gone along with WW, they may well have pulled through - instead, she may have made things worse, triggering events that inevitably ended with WW's own death.

Skyler was totally passive aggressive. How about the silent treatment? How about how she dealt with Marie after the shop lifting incident? She is entirely manipulative and uses passive aggression to get her apologies or others to concede.

She rubbed me the wrong way for reasons that are even hard to pin down, mostly mannerisms and habits, like veggie bacon, and when Marie is talking she puts her finger over Marie's mouth and says sh.... Sh.....and the passive aggression. The sat ding outside the door to wait while you finish puking. Ok that's not passive aggressive, that's nice, but the kind of that would bug me, as in wold ou ever **** off?

In one way it makes sense. WW started out as a bland, kind, meek, middle class ordinary school teacher. So when creating thenWW character, the writers had to think WHAT KIND OF WIFE WOULD HE HAVE? And yes it makes sense he's have a wife like Skyler. A wife like Carmella would have. Of made much sense or underscored his transformation. So she works on one level in helping to define WW.

Anna Gunn did a good job at being annoying because Skyler was set up by the writers to make her be another constraint. It adds to the drama so It works in a technical way script wise, but it doesn't work in may other ways. I think going this way may have been an error.

I wasn't rooting for WW either really, and I felt bad for Skyler in many ways, but even though I felt bad for her I still didn't like her.

clairefontaine

cloudatlas wrote: »

But moaning and throwing spanners in the works is entirely sane when you find out your husband is a drug dealer! Even when she becomes a part of the 'business' the fans don't like her she is in a no win situation. Her affair was an attempt to force Walt to leave her because he refused (I'm not saying it wasn't morally reprehensible) but a desperate measure. She is deeply compromised but I don't think she was weak, I don't think Marie is weak either. Perhaps she's not likable but on paper Walt shouldn't be either! even Vince Gilligan said that he was bewildered by everyones continued support of Walt coming up to the end.

The difference is Carmella knew what she was getting into. Tony didn't go through a massive transformation. Walt did. Skyler did not end up with what it said on the tin.

Tony EH

cloudatlas wrote: »

But moaning and throwing spanners in the works is entirely sane when you find out your husband is a drug dealer! Even when she becomes a part of the 'business' the fans don't like her she is in a no win situation. Her affair was an attempt to force Walt to leave her because he refused (I'm not saying it wasn't morally reprehensible) but a desperate measure. She is deeply compromised but I don't think she was weak, I don't think Marie is weak either. Perhaps she's not likable but on paper Walt shouldn't be either! even Vince Gilligan said that he was bewildered by everyones continued support of Walt coming up to the end.

Well, he wasn't at the end to the vast majority. Walter crosses the rubicon, it's just a different part of the rubicon for different people. However, Walter IS likeable chap at the beginning of the series who ventures into his situation out of altruism, but who lets the power of his journey go to his head in a terrible, terrible way leading him to perform acts that are extremely unwholesome to most people.

Skyler just isn't that nice a person from the get-go, regardless of her situation with Walter's descent into the drug world.

As regards to her being weak, she's weak because of the decisions she makes, not because she's put upon or anything like that. Weakness has many forms. To me she is a weak character because she constantly makes the wrong decisions and generally makes things worse for everyone concerned and in a large way she comes off as an extremely selfish individual, motivated be her own desires. Her affair with Ted, her eventual going along with the business, the money laundering etc are all really to suit her and her narrow perspective.

Marie and Hank end up being the strongest characters of the whole show and are the characters that are the most "in the right" as it were. Hank goes from being an absolute dick to the guy everyone should be routing for and Marie from a bit-part klepto to a woman who is deeply destroyed by the whole sordid series of events, while still maintaining her dignity.

April O Neill

The Corinthian wrote: »

Did she make the most of a bad situation though? Even at the end, had she gone along with WW, they may well have pulled through - instead, she may have made things worse, triggering events that inevitably ended with WW's own death.

When exactly? When the shít had hit the fan, and he asked her and the kids to run away with him? No, they wouldn't have pulled through at that stage.

DeepBlue

I'm rewatching from the start at the moment and have just finished series 1 and into the first couple of episodes of series 2.

What surprised me is that Skyler isn't annoying from the start as I seemed to remember her being. It's pretty obvious she loves Walt deeply and although she star 69's the phone call from Jesse to Walt and turns up at Jesse's house while he's trying to move Emilio's body from the RV to the house that's about the only thing she does that might seem a bit extreme.
Walt is frequently missing for long periods of time and he offers Skyler no explanation other than some rubbish that's he's off walking enjoying nature and she doesn't flip out to him. She does let off some steam to Hank when he calls around asking her to return Marie's phone calls after the shop lifting incident.

But all in all Skyler doesn't have a case to answer in series 1.

clairefontaine

DeepBlue wrote: »

I'm rewatching from the start at the moment and have just finished series 1 and into the first couple of episodes of series 2.

What surprised me is that Skyler isn't annoying from the start as I seemed to remember her being. It's pretty obvious she loves Walt deeply and although she star 69's the phone call from Jesse to Walt and turns up at Jesse's house while he's trying to move Emilio's body from the RV to the house that's about the only thing she does that might seem a bit extreme.
Walt is frequently missing for long periods of time and he offers Skyler no explanation other than some rubbish that's he's off walking enjoying nature and she doesn't flip out to him. She does let off some steam to Hank when he calls around asking her to return Marie's phone calls after the shop lifting incident.

But all in all Skyler doesn't have a case to answer in series 1.

Skyler is set up early on as a Yoko Ono. They want us to hate her.

cloudatlas

"Man, I don’t see it that way at all. We’ve been at events and had all our actors up onstage, and people ask Anna Gunn, “Why is your character such a bitch?” And with the risk of painting with too broad a brush, I think the people who have these issues with the wives being too bitchy on Breaking Bad are misogynists, plain and simple. I like Skyler a little less now that she’s succumbed to Walt’s machinations, but in the early days she was the voice of morality on the show. She was the one telling him, “You can’t cook crystal meth.” She’s got a tough job being married to this asshole. And this, by the way, is why I should avoid the Internet at all costs. People are griping about Skyler White being too much of a killjoy to her meth-cooking, murdering husband? She’s telling him not to be a murderer and a guy who cooks drugs for kids. How could you have a problem with that?" - Vince Gilligan.

expectationlost

what i wonder is the actress was always poor me all those women hating men out there, but she did eventually join in on the empire and tell white to kill people are we at fault for not liking her

The Corinthian

April O Neill wrote: »

When exactly? When the shít had hit the fan, and he asked her and the kids to run away with him? No, they wouldn't have pulled through at that stage.

How do you know that? While we will never know, the reality is that WW had pulled himself out of deeper holes in the past, so there was no reason to believe he wouldn't have pulled himself out of that one.

Actually, even then, police involvement ultimately came about only because Skyler called them. They knew nothing of Hank's investigation (and his tapes ended up being taken by the White Power gang before they would ever have seen them) and there was in fact nothing connecting WW with any investigation. All there might have been was Skyler's sister's testimony - no evidence beyond that.

So saying that the game was up doesn't wash, as one could have said this dozens of times for WW, in the course of the series.

clairefontaine

The way I see it is the minute WW corroborated he was a drug dealer she became an accessory.

At that point it became a question of so far steeped in blood. She decided to go on.

clairefontaine

Why didnt Skyler, take the money, the kids and run?

Given what she turned into in season 5, that would have been the better option for all of them.

The Corinthian

clairefontaine wrote: »

Why didnt Skyler, take the money, the kids and run?

Given what she turned into in season 5, that would have been the better option for all of them.

It would have dealt with the crisis around Hanks death, but there would have been yet another crisis down the road (WW wanted to get his money back from the White Power gang).

One way one could look at it is that Skyler had a better approach to risk analysis in the end to Walter. WW was "in the Empire business" at that stage and so he was both willing and wanted to continue, despite the risks. Skyler had long understood that there's a good time to walk away from the table (especially if you've made so much money that you "couldn't spend it all in a lifetime") and it was clear by the halfway point of season 5 that they'd reached it. Eventually, she got Walter to agree to do so.

But he got pulled in again, and it was clear that he would get pulled in again and again after that. There was no walking away from the table while Walter was still around - and the longer she sat at it, the greater the risk she'd lose the game.

In short, WW had become a liability to her.

clairefontaine

The Corinthian wrote: »

It would have dealt with the crisis around Hanks death, but there would have been yet another crisis down the road (WW wanted to get his money back from the White Power gang).

One way one could look at it is that Skyler had a better approach to risk analysis in the end to Walter. WW was "in the Empire business" at that stage and so he was both willing and wanted to continue, despite the risks. Skyler had long understood that there's a good time to walk away from the table (especially if you've made so much money that you "couldn't spend it all in a lifetime") and it was clear by the halfway point of season 5 that they'd reached it. Eventually, she got Walter to agree to do so.

But he got pulled in again, and it was clear that he would get pulled in again and again after that. There was no walking away from the table while Walter was still around - and the longer she sat at it, the greater the risk she'd lose the game.

In short, WW had become a liability to her.

She should have ran in season four, taken the kids and the money. She's a mess in Season 5.

Yeah WW and his Empire business. I think thats the monument I lost any kind of any crumb of positive feeling for him. That's the moment I saw him not just as evil, but as an idiot., and I couldn't wait this guy to die either. Up to that point, I could see glimpses of humanity once in a while, but once he occupied the seat of power, and turned down five million, idiot.

Ken.

Just finished rewatching for the 5th time since it ended and how the fück that Skyler bitch didn't end up in a barrel of Hydrofluric acid is beyond me.
Season 1 Skyler- Bullet to the back of the head,acid
Season 2 Skyler- little bit of torture,bullet,acid.
Season 3 Skyler- extreme torture,bullet,acid.
Season 4+5 Skyler-In the barrel bitch this is going to burn.

Tarzana

ken wrote: »

Just finished rewatching for the 5th time since it ended and how the fück that Skyler bitch didn't end up in a barrel of Hydrofluric acid is beyond me.
Season 1 Skyler- Bullet to the back of the head,acid
Season 2 Skyler- little bit of torture,bullet,acid.
Season 3 Skyler- extreme torture,bullet,acid.
Season 4+5 Skyler-In the barrel bitch this is going to burn.

This is on a par with the meatheaded "Tony should have whacked Carmella" exclamations that accompanied online discussion of the Sopranos back in the day. :rolleyes:

About the only principle Walt stuck to throughout was the importance of family. Did you even watch the show? Pay attention!

ceadaoin.

How exactly is a person supposed to react to finding out their significant other has been leading a double life by manufacturing drugs and possibly murdering people? Apparently if you're a female, the only correct response is to be a good wifey and accept it unquestionably. You wouldn't be able to buy all those shoes you want if it wasn't for your hero spouse putting his life on the line for you :rolleyes:

I mean, really who would be ok with that?

Tarzana

ceadaoin. wrote: »

How exactly is a person supposed to react to finding out their significant other has been leading a double life by manufacturing drugs and possibly murdering people?

Exactly! I can separate the fact that I would dislike Skylar as a person if I knew her from the fact that she has been handed some extreme and terrifying circumstances to deal with. I find it really interesting that so many people can't seem to do that.