Could anyone be a teacher?

Nialler15

Right I was having a discussion about the teachers the other night with a group of friends some who are teachers and others who are not. I threw it out there that with the exception of higher level maths and some of the sciences, that anybody could actually be a successful teacher, qualified or not.

The syllabus is there in place, most teachers just follow the syllabus and teach from text books. With repetition obviously the teachers absorb more and more so as to not need the text books. So in theory anyone could do that. Agree or Disagree? Is there a need to have teachers on such a pedestal as highly trained highly qualified people? Are they really? Other than having the degree and H Dip, which lets be honest is all about boosting income as opposed to benefiting students.

Or am I just being very cynical and harsh on teachers?

As they would say in the Leaving Cert. DISCUSS

Mr Benevolent

Nialler15 wrote: »

DISCUSS

No.

Boombastic

Unqualified teachers have been in schools for years. They only clamped down on it a few years ago......

Insect Overlord

Nialler15 wrote: »

Or am I just being very cynical and harsh on teachers?

As they would say in the Leaving Cert. DISCUSS

Got it one.

Anyone can read information out of a book. It takes skill to get kids and teenagers to actually engage with a subject and learn something valuable from it.

Nialler15

I am aware of that. Just talking in theory. Anyone could be a teacher.

TheBody

Nialler15 wrote: »

Right I was having a discussion about the teachers the other night with a group of friends some who are teachers and others who are not. I threw it out there that with the exception of higher level maths and some of the sciences, that anybody could actually be a successful teacher, qualified or not.

The syllabus is there in place, most teachers just follow the syllabus and teach from text books. With repetition obviously the teachers absorb more and more so as to not need the text books. So in theory anyone could do that. Agree or Disagree? Is there a need to have teachers on such a pedestal as highly trained highly qualified people? Are they really? Other than having the degree and H Dip, which lets be honest is all about boosting income as opposed to benefiting students.

Or am I just being very cynical and harsh on teachers?

As they would say in the Leaving Cert. DISCUSS

That is an extremely uninformed post. I don't even know where to begin with it. It's borderline trolling.

Nialler15

Insect Overlord wrote: »

Got it one.

Anyone can read information out of a book. It takes skill to get kids and teenagers to actually engage with a subject and learn something valuable from it.

I agree but again anyone could have that skill. A lot of qualified teachers dont have it.

drumswan

You dont even need to have studied the subjects you teach yourself in school it would appear:

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057021460

Nialler15

TheBody wrote: »

That is an extremely uninformed post. I don't even know where to begin with it. It's borderline trolling.

How is it uninformed? I am asking a number of questions. Just looking for a general opinion.

I am not abusing teachers I am asking the question, is it as highly skilled and highly specialised as teachers would make you believe?

TheBody

Nialler15 wrote: »

I agree but again anyone could have that skill. A lot of qualified teachers dont have it.

There are qualified people in every profession that are crap at their job. Teaching is no exeption. However, to say that everybody can teach is ridiculous. In the same way as not everybody could be a nurse, engineer etc.

Nialler15

drumswan wrote: »

You dont even need to have studied the subjects you teach yourself in school it would appear:

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057021460

Well surely that highlights my point and gives it substance?

Dilly.

Nialler15 wrote: »

I agree but again anyone could have that skill. A lot of qualified teachers dont have it.

Your second sentence contradicts your first one

Nialler15

TheBody wrote: »

There are qualified people in every profession that are crap at their job. Teaching is no exeption. However, to say that everybody can teach is ridiculous. In the same way as not everybody could be a nurse, engineer etc.

Re read. I said anybody not everybody. There is a difference

Sofiztikated

Fact is anyone can do any job.

Whether you are good at it or not is a different story.

TheBody

Nialler15 wrote: »

How is it uninformed? I am asking a number of questions. Just looking for a general opinion.

I am not abusing teachers I am asking the question, is it as highly skilled and highly specialised as teachers would make you believe?

It's no more highly specialised than any other profession. Everyone thinks they are experts in education because they went to school!! There is so much more to teaching than what you see on the surface. Same as any other profession.

Boombastic

I think there is confusion between the questions 'Can anyone be a teacher?' and Can anyone be a good teacher?'

doc_17

Oh sweet lord

Nialler15

Dilly. wrote: »

Your second sentence contradicts your first one

Not really. I said a lot of people could have that skill and I said a lot of teachers dont have it. Talking about the general public and then talking about teachers.

Insect Overlord

Nialler15 wrote: »

I agree but again anyone could have that skill. A lot of qualified teachers dont have it.

Anyone could be a professional footballer.
Anyone could be a neuro-surgeon.
Anyone could be UFC heavy-weight champion.
Anyone could be Pope.

See where that kind of logic takes you...

Afroshack

Nialler15 wrote: »

How is it uninformed? I am asking a number of questions. Just looking for a general opinion.

I am not abusing teachers I am asking the question, is it as highly skilled and highly specialised as teachers would make you believe?

Tell you what, why don't you volunteer to teach your degree subject for a week using only the textbook, since that's all you think teachers need to do?

Nialler15

TheBody wrote: »

It's no more highly specialised than any other profession. Everyone thinks they are experts in education because they went to school!! There is so much more to teaching than what you see on the surface. Same as any other profession.

I agree with you 100%. But is it not just down to the person and not the "teacher" in the person. If you can be personable and interact with your students then your going to be able to teach them. Whether you are a "teache" or not.

jester77

Nialler15 wrote: »

Right I was having a discussion about the teachers the other night with a group of friends some who are teachers and others who are not. I threw it out there that with the exception of higher level maths and some of the sciences, that anybody could actually be a successful teacher, qualified or not.

The syllabus is there in place, most teachers just follow the syllabus and teach from text books. With repetition obviously the teachers absorb more and more so as to not need the text books. So in theory anyone could do that. Agree or Disagree? Is there a need to have teachers on such a pedestal as highly trained highly qualified people? Are they really? Other than having the degree and H Dip, which lets be honest is all about boosting income as opposed to benefiting students.

Or am I just being very cynical and harsh on teachers?

As they would say in the Leaving Cert. DISCUSS

Not everyone can, while you may understand the topic you would still need to be able to teach it.

I had a physics teacher in school and she was useless. I just about passed the exam in my leaving cert. She spent so much time trying to explain things and none of us could get it.

Then when I went to Uni my heart sunk in the first week when one of our professors showed us the course content. A lot of it was based on what my physics teacher had been trying to teach me, I thought I was screwed. In the first week the lecturer had basically explained everything that my previous physics teacher couldn't and it was straight forward and logical.

Difference was he could teach, she couldn't.

Nialler15

Insect Overlord wrote: »

Anyone could be a professional footballer.
Anyone could be a neuro-surgeon.
Anyone could be UFC heavy-weight champion.
Anyone could be Pope.

See where that kind of logic takes you...

That wasnt my logic at all and your just being silly. :D:D

jimmycrackcorm

Insect Overlord wrote: »

Anyone could be a professional footballer.
Anyone could be a neuro-surgeon.
Anyone could be UFC heavy-weight champion.
Anyone could be Pope.

See where that kind of logic takes you...

Home schooled kids have as much success as those in school primarily because of the close teaching ratio (parent to child).

I don't fancy home based Neuro-surgery much though.

Nialler15

Afroshack wrote: »

Tell you what, why don't you volunteer to teach your degree subject for a week using only the textbook, since that's all you think teachers need to do?

Ah the first of the teachers going on the defensive. I was not slating teachers. Just asking a question???

DublinArnie

There's a huge difference with a new teacher who just started and a teacher who has many years of experince. Yes, maybe anyone could teach, but I don't think everyone could teach successfully. It takes years of teaching, earning a rep and learning new methods to become a good teacher who actually does something in the classroom. Also, textbook teaching never works.

Nialler15

jester77 wrote: »

Not everyone can, while you may understand the topic you would still need to be able to teach it.

I had a physics teacher in school and she was useless. I just about passed the exam in my leaving cert. She spent so much time trying to explain things and none of us could get it.

Then when I went to Uni my heart sunk in the first week when one of our professors showed us the course content. A lot of it was based on what my physics teacher had been trying to teach me, I thought I was screwed. In the first week the lecturer had basically explained everything that my previous physics teacher couldn't and it was straight forward and logical.

Difference was he could teach, she couldn't.

And there is my point. That in theory anyone could have explained you something in a logical way. Doesnt need to be a teacher.

Insect Overlord

Nialler15 wrote: »

Ah the first of the teachers going on the defensive. I was not slating teachers. Just asking a question???

Your OP included this:

Nialler15 wrote: »

So in theory anyone could do that. Agree or Disagree? Is there a need to have teachers on such a pedestal as highly trained highly qualified people? Are they really? Other than having the degree and H Dip, which lets be honest is all about boosting income as opposed to benefiting students.

Are you really surprised you're getting a negative reaction?

Nialler15

DublinArnie wrote: »

There's a huge difference with a new teacher who just started and a teacher who has many years of experince. Yes, maybe anyone could teach, but I don't think everyone could teach successfully. It takes years of teaching, earning a rep and learning new methods to become a good teacher who actually does something in the classroom. Also, textbook teaching never works.

I agree with you. But take someone who goes in brand new. They start with a text book and develop in time like these teachers with years of experience. In time they use the text book less and less.

Nialler15

Insect Overlord wrote: »

Your OP included this:



Are you really surprised you're getting a negative reaction?

Not at all but I believe I am correct in what I am saying...dont you? :D

Artful_Badger

In my experience yes they could. It doesnt take long for an intelligent adult to familiarize themselves with the stuff being taught in schools. And I rarely came across a teacher who understood the material well enough to be able to easily explain it. Primary school and secondary school is all carrot and stick stuff.

I think the old adage of "Those who cant do, teach" is true in a lot of cases too.

Afroshack

Nialler15 wrote: »

And there is my point. That in theory anyone could have explained you something in a logical way. Doesnt need to be a teacher.

A teacher is someone with detailed knowledge of their subject topic, with an extended amount of practice and reflection on their previous teaching methods, who will be able to differentiate their methodologies to engage kids with EAL, additional needs etc without singling them out too much, a great attention to subject planning and detail, consistently able to use AFL as a part of their lesson to check learning and understanding, whilst stopping problem behaviour and re-engaging difficult or unruly students back in the topic without deviating too much from the lesson plan or scheme of work.

Teaching goes far, far beyond explaining something in a logical way. It's a great job but by no means is it just explaining stuff out of a textbook. A teacher is able to do all those things above (well, ideally) but I do agree that you can get people who can't do these things very well. In all professions, you can have excellent teachers and very lazy ones.

doc_17

jester77 wrote: »

Not everyone can, while you may understand the topic you would still need to be able to teach it.

I had a physics teacher in school and she was useless. I just about passed the exam in my leaving cert. She spent so much time trying to explain things and none of us could get it.

Then when I went to Uni my heart sunk in the first week when one of our professors showed us the course content. A lot of it was based on what my physics teacher had been trying to teach me, I thought I was screwed. In the first week the lecturer had basically explained everything that my previous physics teacher couldn't and it was straight forward and logical.

Difference was he could teach, she couldn't.

Think you might be engaging in hyperbole here. Everything you didn't understand in a two year course was explained to you in a week?

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Nialler15 wrote: »

I am aware of that. Just talking in theory. Anyone could be a teacher.

if that;s the case then the student could be his own teacher.

Nialler15

Afroshack wrote: »

A teacher is someone with detailed knowledge of their subject topic, with an extended amount of practice and reflection on their previous teaching methods, who will be able to differentiate their methodologies to engage kids with EAL, additional needs etc without singling them out too much, a great attention to subject planning and detail, consistently able to use AFL as a part of their lesson to check learning and understanding, whilst stopping problem behaviour and re-engaging difficult or unruly students back in the topic without deviating too much from the lesson plan or scheme of work.

Teaching goes far, far beyond explaining something in a logical way. It's a great job but by no means is it just explaining stuff out of a textbook. A teacher is able to do all those things above (well, ideally) but I do agree that you can get people who can't do these things very well. In all professions, you can have excellent teachers and very lazy ones.

Again being able to deal with someone with special needs etc can be done by someone who is compassionate, patient and caring. Dont get me wrong. I am not trying to slate anyone here. And like you say there are good teachers and lazy teachers. I am just raising a point that in theory anyone can teach and be reasonably good at it. Not discussing other professions

Kinzig

went to school with a girl who lived closeby..she really struggled at school..asked me and other s to copy our homework on many occassions, would always be well down the list at exam time..failing several subjects at times..anyhows we left school and moved on in life , but this girls father kept pushing her on and on and after spending a number of years at schools and colleges long after we all left and with a hefty dose of politics involved;)..found herself a teacher at her original school:eek:..that was the day I lost faith in our schools system..the class dope had now became a teacher:(

Nialler15

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

if that;s the case then the student could be his own teacher.

100%. That young lad from Wexford who got 9 A1's in his leaving cert taught himself Biology on his mid term. I know he is the exception but it proves it is possible.

Afroshack

Nialler15 wrote: »

Again being able to deal with someone with special needs etc can be done by someone who is compassionate, patient and caring. Dont get me wrong. I am not trying to slate anyone here. And like you say there are good teachers and lazy teachers. I am just raising a point that in theory anyone can teach and be reasonably good at it. Not discussing other professions

WTF? That's a bit of a kick in the teeth to all professionally trained SNA's and Resource teachers. I'm guessing you've never had to teach students with severe intellectual disabilities, autism or dyslexia/dyspraxia. You need so much more than just patience and compassion, you need professional training. Yes you are very much slating people here. Teacher training is crucial because knowing your subject well and understanding the dynamics of how children learn and absorb information are two very different things.

osarusan

Nialler15 wrote: »

Not discussing other professions

But why not? Could anybody be a reasonably good investment banker, mechanic, architect?

You seem to be suggesting that there are no special skills involved in teaching, but, like any other job, different aptitudes means that some people will do it better than others. A teacher who is skilled at imparting information in a meaningful and relevant way will be better than one who doesn't.

I think one problem is that while in many professions, those whose aren't particularly skilled in a job end up leaving it/being fired, teachers who aren't very good end up sticking around and being remembered for their poor performance, making people think that anybody could do the job.

Kinzig

Nialler15 wrote: »

100%. That young lad from Wexford who got 9 A1's in his leaving cert taught himself Biology on his mid term. I know he is the exception but it proves it is possible.

and on that note, I got an honour in Economic History back in the seventies with no teacher..just me and some reference books..right enough the exam wasnt that hard..but it was doable..

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Nialler15 wrote: »

100%. That young lad from Wexford who got 9 A1's in his leaving cert taught himself Biology on his mid term. I know he is the exception but it proves it is possible.

Well, in that case, anyone with the proper abilit and trainign could do anything. You'll need toclarify what's so specific about teaching?

Insect Overlord

Nialler15 wrote: »

If you can be personable and interact with your students then your going to be able to teach them.

Nialler15 wrote: »

That in theory anyone could have explained you something in a logical way. Doesnt need to be a teacher.

Nialler15 wrote: »

Again being able to deal with someone with special needs etc can be done by someone who is compassionate, patient and caring.

Just how many people do you know who are personable, logical, compassionate, patient, and caring, with a firm grasp of a subject area and the dedication to refine their methods from week to week, year to year, depending on the combination of people sitting in front of them and the silly politics in the staff room behind them?

Nialler15

Afroshack wrote: »

WTF? That's a bit of a kick in the teeth to all professionally trained SNA's and Resource teachers. I'm guessing you've never had to teach students with severe intellectual disabilities, autism or dyslexia/dyspraxia. You need so much more than just patience and compassion, you need professional training. Yes you are very much slating people here. Teacher training is crucial because knowing your subject well and understanding the dynamics of how children learn and absorb information are two very different things.

When did I slate anyone? Your taking from all of this what you want. And finding things that are not in my argument.

Also you do not have to be qualified to be an SNA.

Mardy Bum

Nialler15 wrote: »

Again being able to deal with someone with special needs etc can be done by someone who is compassionate, patient and caring. Dont get me wrong. I am not trying to slate anyone here. And like you say there are good teachers and lazy teachers. I am just raising a point that in theory anyone can teach and be reasonably good at it. Not discussing other professions

Give it a go so and find out. Volunteer if you have to.
You have not given any "theory" either bar baseless assumptions so that word is redundant.
It takes knowledge and training to help children with SEN.

kowloon

I reckon I could have a good go at some secondary subjects as far as knowledge is concerned, but getting anyone to listen to me and controlling the students? Not a chance. I'd have even more trouble with Primary school.

From my experience there are more terrible lecturers at third level than teachers at Primary or Secondary. Some lecturers see the teaching side of their job as an inconvenience.

Annasopra

Nialler15 wrote: »

Right I was having a discussion about the teachers the other night with a group of friends some who are teachers and others who are not. I threw it out there that with the exception of higher level maths and some of the sciences, that anybody could actually be a successful teacher, qualified or not.

The syllabus is there in place, most teachers just follow the syllabus and teach from text books. With repetition obviously the teachers absorb more and more so as to not need the text books. So in theory anyone could do that. Agree or Disagree? Is there a need to have teachers on such a pedestal as highly trained highly qualified people? Are they really? Other than having the degree and H Dip, which lets be honest is all about boosting income as opposed to benefiting students.

Or am I just being very cynical and harsh on teachers?

As they would say in the Leaving Cert. DISCUSS

You have to understand about what learning is, how people learn, how to motivate your pupils, how to manage the classroom and multiple pupils, how to keep pupils motivated and engaged, you have to be able to understand your pupils needs and expectations, you have to be able to create a comfortable learning environment, you have to be able to plan and implement teaching plans

If you can do all of that plus more then you can be a teacher

Nialler15

Mardy Bum wrote: »

Give it a go so and find out. Volunteer if you have to.
You have not given any "theory" either bar baseless assumptions so that word is redundant.
It takes knowledge and training to help children with SEN.

Special Needs Assistants (SNA) help teachers in schools, by providing classroom
support to pupils with a wide range of severe learning, physical or behavioural
difficulties. Assistants may work in a special school or in mainstream national and
secondary schools.
Assistants work under the supervision of the class teacher, helping pupils to achieve
their learning goals. Other duties depend on the assistant’s particular job, the type
and severity of the pupils’ disabilities and their age but may include:
 Helping pupils to improve their independent living skills
 Supporting pupils in social activities and outings
 Assisting pupils during therapy sessions
 Attending to pupils’ physical needs
If you get a position as an assistant, you may just be working a few hours a week or
you may be full-time. You do not have to be a qualified teacher or have a SNA
qualification but it is worth considering. Extra skills such as sign language, music,
art, sport and so on are beneficial.

Nialler15

mango salsa wrote: »

You have to understand about what learning is, how people learn, how to motivate your pupils, how to manage the classroom and multiple pupils, how to keep pupils motivated and engaged, you have to be able to understand your pupils needs and expectations, you have to be able to create a comfortable learning environment, you have to be able to plan and implement teaching plans

If you can do all of that plus more then you can be a teacher

Again I agree with you. But I asked could anybody do this? I think they could. Not everyone but anyone.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Nialler15 wrote: »

Again I agree with you. But I asked could anybody do this? I think they could. Not everyone but anyone.

That sounds like a contradiction to me...

For example: who, do you think, would not make a good teacher?

Annasopra

Nialler15 wrote: »

Again I agree with you. But I asked could anybody do this? I think they could. Not everyone but anyone.

No

I don't think so - Not everyone has skills in the areas that I just outlined above

Afroshack

Nialler15 wrote: »

Again I agree with you. But I asked could anybody do this? I think they could. Not everyone but anyone.

I genuinely don't think so - not without having done an actual educational qualification and a supervised teaching practice. Having a basic understanding of the learning process is too important.