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Faith Healers in Ireland

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    #32
    blacklilly
    Registered Users Posts: 2,687 ✭✭✭blacklilly


    shopaholic01 wrote: »
    Maybe it had naturally just run its course? Some skin conditions do clear up almost overnight.

    Its a possibility alright but would also be a strange coincidence that it cleared up so quickly after going to this healer. Also I'm not talking about a bit of red aggravated skin, it was very severe
    Of course I couldn't 100% rule it out that the condition just ran its course.


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    #33
    shopaholic01
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,916 ✭✭✭shopaholic01


    blacklilly wrote: »
    Its a possibility alright but would also be a strange coincidence that it cleared up so quickly after going to this healer. Also I'm not talking about a bit of red aggravated skin, it was very severe
    Of course I couldn't 100% rule it out that the condition just ran its course.
    What did the healer actually do? Are you required to have faith in the healer, God or both?


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    #34
    blacklilly
    Registered Users Posts: 2,687 ✭✭✭blacklilly


    smoking_kills wrote: »
    But have you ever considered any alternative explanations.

    Coincidence..The skin disorder went away by itself. Cancers do this ,as do may disease..

    The drugs the Doctors gave you did work, just not in the time frame they expected...

    Placebo..Well understood and verified effect.

    All 3 are better explanations of what happened, obey all know laws of Physics/chemistry and biology. And don't invoke magic/faith in ANY way.

    You see I believe in fairys and believe somethings cannot be explained.:eek: (I don't really believe in fairys)
    As I said before the OP asked for other peoples experience, I have given them my experience. Do you have any experience of a healer that you can share or are you just here to disagree with what I / or others say if it does not sit well with you?
    Yes the three explanantions you gave are possibilites but I had stopped taking the prescribed drugs quite some time before going to the healer as I was having side effects from them.
    I'm not some naive dumbass who's williing to believe everything. Conventional medicine has worked very well for me throughout my life but on this occassion it didn't work.....sorry seemed to not have worked.


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    #35
    smoking_kills
    Closed Accounts Posts: 488 ✭✭smoking_kills


    shopaholic01 wrote: »
    What did the healer actually do? Are you required to have faith in the healer, God or both?

    Usually yes, but like homeopaths they all differ from person to person. While my earlier post was a bit or a skit, its actually not that far from the truth. Some put their hands on you and pray, some just put their hand on you and close their eyes and have this intense look on their faces. Some attempt some kind of exam, cough, show me your tongue, lift you arms. That kinda stuff. Really depends on the person. Some use stones, crystals, crosses and I even heard of one putting a 2x2 foot picture of Mary and Jesus on peoples chest....I kid you not


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    #36
    VinLieger
    Registered Users Posts: 17,759 ✭✭✭✭VinLieger


    People do not posess magical healing powers because quite simply ..... SCIENCE


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    #37
    the_monkey
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,556 ✭✭✭the_monkey


    Chin Stroker wrote: »
    Has anyone ever had experience of one? Are they all con men/women or is there strong evidence that they can cure ailments?

    All of them are con men/women

    Evidence ??? for this tripe ??? really , really ???


    The fact that you are even posting this says you are pretty gullible and will probably depart with some cash to one of these sheisters...

    shame really..


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    #38
    blacklilly
    Registered Users Posts: 2,687 ✭✭✭blacklilly


    the_monkey wrote: »
    All of them are con men/women

    Evidence ??? for this tripe ??? really , really ???


    The fact that you are even posting this says you are pretty gullible and will probably depart with some cash to one of these sheisters...

    shame really..


    No don't worry, I'll give the OP details of the one I went to it was free and he can cure anything:)


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    #39
    enda1
    Registered Users Posts: 5,166 ✭✭✭enda1


    blacklilly wrote: »
    No don't worry, I'll give the OP details of the one I went to it was free and he can cure anything:)

    Well I think you just Godwined the thread. G'luck


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    #40
    I Heart Internet
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,678 ✭✭✭I Heart Internet


    I believe there is some evidence that faith (i.e. believing in something, some god or even believing that you will/must do something (e.g. stay alive to see your daughter walk down the aisle)) can influence the wellbeing of a sick person. I have no idea where the evidence for this is but have seen it reported in the press.

    But I don't think "faith healers" as such really have the power to heal.

    Although, and I'm sure I'll be laughed out of it for saying this, I do believe in miracles......Padre Pio's mittens have been curing people up and down the country for years sure!


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    #41
    kylith
    Registered Users Posts: 17,736 ✭✭✭✭kylith


    blacklilly wrote: »
    No don't worry, I'll give the OP details of the one I went to it was free and he can cure anything:)

    If he can cure anything why is he not travelling around Africa curing people of all kinds of illnesses? That's what I'd be doing. Right after I'd gone and shown myself to scientists so that they could see if they could bottle my healing powers.

    Was it really free? You just walked in there and he waved his hands and cured you and then you walked out, and nothing changed hands at all?

    I'm sorry if I seem aggressive, I have issues with conmen who prey on the ill.


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    #42
    Chin Stroker
    Registered Users Posts: 172 ✭✭Chin Stroker


    blacklilly wrote: »
    No don't worry, I'll give the OP details of the one I went to it was free and he can cure anything:)

    Thanks for all your feedback Lilly. Can you say who the healer was?


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    #43
    kylith
    Registered Users Posts: 17,736 ✭✭✭✭kylith


    I Heart Internet wrote: »
    I believe there is some evidence that faith (i.e. believing in something, some god or even believing that you will/must do something (e.g. stay alive to see your daughter walk down the aisle)) can influence the wellbeing of a sick person. I have no idea where the evidence for this is but have seen it reported in the press.

    Well, if you tell someone who's had surgery that you're praying for them, statistically speaking they'll take longer to heal and generally do worse, if that's what you mean.

    http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2006/04/060403133554.htm


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    #44
    I Heart Internet
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,678 ✭✭✭I Heart Internet


    kylith wrote: »
    Well, if you tell someone who's had surgery that you're praying for them, statistically speaking they'll take longer to heal and generally do worse, if that's what you mean.

    http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2006/04/060403133554.htm

    That could well be the case.

    All very interesting placebo and related effects.

    Except for the miracles...


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    #45
    kylith
    Registered Users Posts: 17,736 ✭✭✭✭kylith


    I Heart Internet wrote: »
    That could well be the case.

    All very interesting placebo and related effects.

    Except for the miracles...

    It's more the nocebo effect.

    What miracles? By 'miracle' do you mean spontaneous remission, regression to the mean, and medical science?


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    #46
    I Heart Internet
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,678 ✭✭✭I Heart Internet


    kylith wrote: »
    It's more the nocebo effect.

    What miracles? By 'miracle' do you mean spontaneous remission, regression to the mean, and medical science?

    I'm being tongue in cheek when I say miracles, but I do kinda believe in them. I have zero evidence to back up the case for miracles but it makes me happy to think they happen.


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    #47
    kylith
    Registered Users Posts: 17,736 ✭✭✭✭kylith


    And it makes me happy to think that the Discworld might be real, but that doesn't make it so. Reality doesn't give a toss what makes us happy.


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    #48
    I Heart Internet
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,678 ✭✭✭I Heart Internet


    kylith wrote: »
    And it makes me happy to think that the Discworld might be real, but that doesn't make it so. Reality doesn't give a toss what makes us happy.

    No, but it's good for our health to be happy.

    Don't worry be happy, as my old friend Bobby McFerrin used to say to me. We wrote a song about it. But it ended up infringing the copyright of a song he'd written years earlier! (apologies to Krusty the Clown)


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    #49
    blacklilly
    Registered Users Posts: 2,687 ✭✭✭blacklilly


    kylith wrote: »
    If he can cure anything why is he not travelling around Africa curing people of all kinds of illnesses? That's what I'd be doing. Right after I'd gone and shown myself to scientists so that they could see if they could bottle my healing powers.

    Was it really free? You just walked in there and he waved his hands and cured you and then you walked out, and nothing changed hands at all?

    I'm sorry if I seem aggressive, I have issues with conmen who prey on the ill.

    Ok relax Kylith, my sarcasm doesn't seem to come through on my posts. I very much doubt he can cure everything. It was 12 years ago that I went to him and I would guess that the man is possibly dead as he was very elderly when I saw him. Yes, it was free, no obligation to give money. I think he was a 7th son of a 7th son type healer and as far as I know they don't charge any money...usually.
    Also he didn't pray on me, I do know that there are plenty of conmen out there, I went to him freely (although I was highly skeptical) as at that point I didn't think I had any other choices left.


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    #50
    blacklilly
    Registered Users Posts: 2,687 ✭✭✭blacklilly


    Chin Stroker wrote: »
    Thanks for all your feedback Lilly. Can you say who the healer was?

    I can't remember his name, it was 12 years ago and he was very old when I saw him so unless he can cure old age, he's more than likely dead at this stage.


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    #51
    VinLieger
    Registered Users Posts: 17,759 ✭✭✭✭VinLieger


    blacklilly wrote: »
    I can't remember his name, it was 12 years ago and he was very old when I saw him so unless he can cure old age, he's more than likely dead at this stage.

    So what your saying is healing you killed him? Pretty sure thats some form of involuntary manslaughter right there


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    #52
    blacklilly
    Registered Users Posts: 2,687 ✭✭✭blacklilly


    VinLieger wrote: »
    So what your saying is healing you killed him? Pretty sure thats some form of involuntary manslaughter right there

    Je ne comprend pas


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    #53
    kylith
    Registered Users Posts: 17,736 ✭✭✭✭kylith


    I Heart Internet wrote: »
    No, but it's good for our health to be happy.

    Not if your healthcare consists of homoeopaths and faith healers. Cancer doesn't respond well to 'happy'.

    I know I sound angry and churlish, it just frustrates me that humanity seems to be getting stupider when it comes to stuff like this; stopping taking prescribed medication because some charlatan tells them it'll interfere with their crystal therapy, thinking they can cure cancer with fruit juice, that kind of nonsense.


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    #54
    I Heart Internet
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,678 ✭✭✭I Heart Internet


    To explain my own thoughts on faith healers and miraculous cures:

    - anyone who claims to "cure" people for financial gain = evil
    - anyone who claims that they can cure people and that actual, modern medicine can be avoided = evil and dangerous
    - anyone who offers, for free, some bit of hope to sick people = ok, if you're into that kind of thing.

    Although the first question above begs the question - "what if the 'practioner' really and honestly believes what they are doing works?" Is it still a con or just grossly misguided?


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    #55
    SteelyDanJalapeno
    Registered Users Posts: 14,244 ✭✭✭✭SteelyDanJalapeno


    Thread deserves a facepalm at this stage.


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    #56
    kylith
    Registered Users Posts: 17,736 ✭✭✭✭kylith


    blacklilly wrote: »
    Ok relax Kylith, my sarcasm doesn't seem to come through on my posts.

    This is a known problem with the net. It's best to use an emoticon or two if you're not being serious. ;)


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    #57
    VinLieger
    Registered Users Posts: 17,759 ✭✭✭✭VinLieger


    blacklilly wrote: »
    Je ne comprend pas

    Oh you see i was making an inference between 2 completely unrelated events much like yourself by believing someone touching you happened to "cure" you.


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    #58
    I Heart Internet
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,678 ✭✭✭I Heart Internet


    kylith wrote: »
    Not if your healthcare consists of homoeopaths and faith healers. Cancer doesn't respond well to 'happy'.

    All I said was that being happy is good for your health. Of course you'll die if you treat a deadly disease with homoepathy and crystals.
    kylith wrote: »
    I know I sound angry and churlish, it just frustrates me that humanity seems to be getting stupider when it comes to stuff like this; stopping taking prescribed medication because some charlatan tells them it'll interfere with their crystal therapy
    You're right, that's beyond mental

    kylith wrote: »
    thinking they can cure cancer with fruit juice, that kind of nonsense.

    I'm sure diet plays some small role in the well being of cancer patients, but clearly it ain't no cure for cancer.


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    #59
    kylith
    Registered Users Posts: 17,736 ✭✭✭✭kylith


    I Heart Internet wrote: »
    All I said was that being happy is good for your health. Of course you'll die if you treat a deadly disease with homoepathy and crystals.

    You're right, that's beyond mental

    I'm sure diet plays some small role in the well being of cancer patients, but clearly it ain't no cure for cancer.

    I'd recommend having a read of whatstheharm.net but be aware it's not really conducive to happiness. It's more really depressing.


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    #60
    hardCopy
    Registered Users Posts: 5,969 ✭✭✭hardCopy


    blacklilly wrote: »
    Its a possibility alright but would also be a strange coincidence that it cleared up so quickly after going to this healer. Also I'm not talking about a bit of red aggravated skin, it was very severe
    Of course I couldn't 100% rule it out that the condition just ran its course.

    If the healer was so effective, why did you have to go twice?


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    #61
    Knasher
    Registered Users Posts: 2,370 ✭✭✭Knasher


    I Heart Internet wrote: »
    - anyone who offers, for free, some bit of hope to sick people = ok, if you're into that kind of thing.
    I have my doubts about people who offer it for free. I'd imagine almost all their customers approach them with a bit of scepticism, often with a condition that medicine didn't deal with too successfully, and on the recommendation of a friend who says they do wonders. The free treatment is just to get people in the door. If you leave feeling exactly the same, then you don't feel ripped off and the practitioners relationship with the person who referred you isn't going to be damaged. If you leave and feel better, then you are a walking advertisement, and you will probably be willing to start paying for further visits if you need them. And if you have an intermittent chronic condition, like a friend of mine, then they have you on the hook for the rest of your life.

    It's a lot like a company giving out free samples in a supermarket. They aren't doing it just to be nice, they are hoping that once they start charging, you will be willing to pay for a product you've already tried and hopefully liked.


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