How Do You Solve a Problem Like Ruhama?

CK73

Laura Lee Blog Spot

As hard as the recent battle in Scotland was against the anti's, it was manageable. Oh sure, we had the misrepresentation of statistics, the 'Nefarious' roadshow, the dogged determination of Abolition Scotland to convince us all of the existence of thousands of sex slaves in Scotland to name but a few, but we got there. Ireland on the other hand is a work of art when it comes to anti's antics, they are literally running amok.

At roughly the same time as the consultation on prostitution began, Ruhama wheeled out a 'survivor' of the 'horrors' of the sex trade, to speak in favour of the introduction of the Swedish model. Enter stage left - Rachel Moran. To my regular readers, Ruhama need no introduction, I've written about their background as the same nuns behind the Magdalene scandal, not to mention their extensive government funding here.

From the very beginning, I sat up when they introduced Moran. In many respects she's perfect to front their cause. She's young, she's very attractive but not quite well spoken enough as to arouse any disbelief. Her book, which I've read, is the classic tale of rising from the ashes of a car crash existence to putting herself through Uni to where she is today. All very admirable, but something was irking me and I needed to work out what that was.

Moran and I worked in Dublin at the same time, the early nineties. I worked in the same brothels, for the same escort agencies and had regular contact through the drop in clinic on Haddington road with the same women, she says she stood on street corners with. One of those women is now a prominent activist working alongside me and is prepared to swear an affidavit to the effect that she has never set eyes on Moran until her book launch. That's not to say that Moran is falsifying the fact that she worked on the street, but isn't it odd that they never met ?

The picture I've included for you above is of the first brothel I worked in, which sits just behind the main shopping thoroughfare of Grafton Street. It was run by Tom McDonnell, a notorious pimp who went on to serve time in Portlaoise prison and fell foul of the Criminal Assets Bureau. Now, you might think that my description of Tom as a notorious pimp means that I had a terrible time working there, not at all. Actually, Tom and I were rather begrudgingly fond of each other. In fact, when I wrote this piece on Back to brothels and spoke with fondness of the day I got sacked for the third time for laughing about his 'tubular drier', it was Tom I was talking about.

Each Christmas Tom threw a party, and we tried anything and everything to get out of it. It was referred to in our circles (affectionately) as 'The Hoor's Ball', and in spite of loud protestations, we were taken out for a full Christmas dinner with all the trimmings, followed by enough booze to float the Titanic. Writing this, I realise that I still miss the comeraderie of brothels. Yes, we bitched and we fought, but at the base of it there was an unbreakable bond between the women, it was us against the world. It was in Tom's that I learned of the 'tain't' (t'aint one or the other) - aka the perineum, that area of a man which is super sensitive and the best place to head if you want to end an appointment early because the take away has just arrived in the staff room. It was in Tom's where I held my head very low after I learned that a request for 'water sports' didn't in fact mean a day on a yacht and was more to do with a shower cubicle and lots of towels. Yes, the other women laughed, but it was good natured and the protective arm was always there, looking after me as a newbie.

As a sex worker in Ireland in the early nineties, I began to spread my wings, and 'touring' became the norm. I visited Limerick, Cork, Waterford, Kilkenny and Galway. At that time we all worked for the same lady, Marian, and although I can't say that she looked out for us as Tom did, she certainly never did us any wrong.

So I struggle, I really do, to see why Moran hasn't been more forthcoming in her 'memoirs'. I worked for them all. Tom, Marian, Karen, Alan and Raymond (the chuckle brothers), Melanie, Amanda. Those names will mean nothing to you, but to a sex worker who was in Dublin at that time, she should know exactly who I'm talking about. Why the secrecy ? Why the blanket claim that all of her experiences were so horrifying ? It simply doesn't add up. Moran says that in seven years of sex work she never met one client who showed her a shred of empathy or kindness. That's incredible. Because in all of my time there, I met some lovely guys. What, she never met the motorbike Garda we all christened 'Chips' ? He was a dude, and always gave us the heads up if there was going to a crackdown.

Turning to the language employed by Moran, it's here that I find the biggest discrepancies, it is literally like she is reading from a script. In a recent interview at a Waterford 'roadshow', she described some of the terminology used by the sex industry to 'sanitise' the whole transaction. Not a chance in hell are they her words, I'll wager anything on it. Similarly, the devil is in the detail and in her book, she repeatedly refers to 'domination'. The only issue I have with that is that back then, we never used that word, it was always 'discipline'. These might seem like minor discrepancies to you but to me it just added to the overall feeling of unease I had.

I was right. Having sat back and studied Moran for weeks, a very brave co-activist came forward and confirmed that Ruhama had approached her. She alleges (and I absolutely trust her word) that they offered her money to 'turn' and campaign for their side. In fact, they offered her a book deal and a tour too, exactly as Moran has now. She refused, because she has a conscience. So do I, and it is for this reason I can no longer stay quiet about the blatant lying that the anti's are doing. For people who purport to care about 'vulnerable women', it would seem that the truth can step aside to make room for continued funding.

It is an appalling situation and I will be doing everything in my power to access the working group which I understand is to convene following summer break. One final point. As I understand it, the anti's in Ireland have a habit (every pun intended) of collaborating with a Sunday newspaper which routinely outs sex workers and makes their lives unmanageable. I hold a letter from that newspaper, dating back to the early nineties, promising not to publish my details or make mention of my (and I quote) 'vice activities'. Pictorial evidence available. I wouldn't, if I were you.

LL xx

Regardless of your opinion of Sex Workers, what do you think about Ruhama, what they stand for and what they do?

Cee-Jay-Cee

Whaaaaaaa?

marketty

NUNS!!!! REVERSE!! REVERSE!!

kneemos

Hilarious.

AndonHandon

Exaggeration grabs headlines but relates to a disproportionately small number of people. Those in the middle get ignored when debating the issue of prostitution which will result in a flawed perception of the reality which will lead to inadequate legislation.

Mariasofia

I love that movie! How do you catch a cloud and pin it down.......

mikom

State funded Nun quango that was set up by two the religious congregations which ran Magdalene laundries, the Good Shepherd Sisters and the Sisters of Our Lady of Charity.
I'll take my chances with thew pimps........ thanks all the same.
Good Shepherd Sisters and the Sisters of Our Lady of Charity,

Elbaston

Well the pro/anti prostitution thing is a waffle/rant-fest in its own right. I don't know much about it but I have noticed that
...you'll find the people in the anti camp are usually getting their share of ass at home.


(well except maybe the nuns)

Game of Thrones Fan

What I want to know, is how did this guy actually got caught?

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/man-65-convicted-of-purchasing-sex-in-landmark-prostitution-case-899086.html

Odhinn

Game of Thrones Fan wrote: »

What I want to know, is how did this guy actually got caught?

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/man-65-convicted-of-purchasing-sex-in-landmark-prostitution-case-899086.html

Not exactly the best advertising for the new law either.

ILoveYourVibes

Prostitutes and nuns have more in common than you think.

A part of me thinks they deserve each other.

Ruhama is just a way to raise money that's all. The refuse to meet with justice for Magdalens.

They get millions from the health service. There is little to no evidence that they help women. Or that the women they target wish to be helped.


Giving the money to women in the magdelene laundries would be better than giving it to Ruhama imo.

ILoveYourVibes

Game of Thrones Fan wrote: »

What I want to know, is how did this guy actually got caught?

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/man-65-convicted-of-purchasing-sex-in-landmark-prostitution-case-899086.html

lol poor bastard :pac:

Xodar

What dafuq are you talking about?

policarp

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

Prostitutes and nuns have more in common than you think.

A part of me thinks they deserve each other.

Ruhama is just a way to raise money that's all. The refuse to meet with justice for Magdalens.

They get millions from the health service. There is little to no evidence that they help women. Or that the women they target wish to be helped.


Giving the money to women in the magdelene laundries would be better than giving it to Ruhama imo.

that is a bit severe. Where are you coming from?

corner of hells

policarp wrote: »

that is a bit severe. Where are you coming from?

Tis , bearing in mind Justice for Magdalenes no longer exists as a group just maintaining a website after the state agreed to compensate survivors.
Nuns and prostitutes comments , cant get my head around that at all.

bazz26

zombie thread, Ted.

ILoveYourVibes

policarp wrote: »

that is a bit severe. Where are you coming from?

I think it should be legal to buy or sell sex. But that doesn't make it a good thing to do in every situation.


There are good nuns there are good prostitutes. Some women will rat on a brothel using minors. Some will keep their nose down.

Most pimps etc that prostitute women are women most traffickers are also women ex prostitutes usually. They can be forceful and even violent. They can run their brothel with the discipline of a nun.

Both have women abuse women and children or turn a blind eye.
Both are self serving serial liars. I would say both groups are about as honest about the profession as each other.
I'm sure there are nice prostitutes just like there are nice nuns. But they have a high percentage of married clients for example.Generally sleeping with married men is considered a selfish thing to do.

People think most underage Prostitutes are foreign. They are not statistically they are Irish. And both boys and girls. Ruhama is not interested at all in the boys for some reason. Ruhama doesn't deal with male prostitutes at all. And that side of prostitution also has issues with minors. Many pimps on that side of the game are also ex prostitutes only male.




There is not a lot of honesty from both camps.
Particularly about the amount of money independent prostitutes can actually make. I would say its pittance and very irregular for most. There was a study in the UK saying that more than half earned under 18 k a year. That would be 350 a week not counting expenses.

Between two single consenting adults I have zero issues with prostitution. And i don't think making it illegal in other circumstances is a good idea either.

Minors however are another matter.


I am sure there are prostitutes who are good people. I am also sure there nuns who are good people.

My grandmother got caught up in prostitution ...she met some bitches from hell. She spent under two yrs living in an inbetween limbo state of doing it and being forced to do it. She moved on to being a cleaner because ironically it paid more.

ILoveYourVibes

corner of hells wrote: »

Tis , bearing in mind Justice for Magdalenes no longer exists as a group just maintaining a website after the state agreed to compensate survivors.
Nuns and prostitutes comments , cant get my head around that at all.

The group still exists.

Its actually the site that doesn't exist.


They still do research and help survivors.

Many of whom ironically became Prostitutes.

ILoveYourVibes

What i am saying is if you cheat on your spouse you might not be a good person at that moment. But it shouldn't be illegal.

corner of hells

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

The group still exists.

Its actually the site that doesn't exist.


They still do research and help survivors.

Many of whom ironically became Prostitutes.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.thejournal.ie/justice-for-magdalenes-913054-May2013/%3Famp%3D1&ved=2ahUKEwiuttWtmdviAhXwUxUIHXKiA4QQFjACegQIBxAC&usg=AOvVaw26WXQHZ-tKO7Ifo56fJ3vo&ampcf=1

Tell us about the nuns and prostitutes?

ILoveYourVibes

corner of hells wrote: »

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.thejournal.ie/justice-for-magdalenes-913054-May2013/%3Famp%3D1&ved=2ahUKEwiuttWtmdviAhXwUxUIHXKiA4QQFjACegQIBxAC&usg=AOvVaw26WXQHZ-tKO7Ifo56fJ3vo&ampcf=1

Tell us about the nuns and prostitutes?

The group still helps people. I know this for certain. They have ended their campaign though.

They help people I know. Partic in finding family members.

Have you anything else to add? Maybe you would like to blather more about something you know nothing about?

I wouldn't let a prostitute babysit my kids much like nuns. That much i would tell you.


I am not sure what your point would be anyway. So what if the group ended??

Ruhama still refused to help them. All they do is take money from the HSE.

ILoveYourVibes

Its a free country though.


If you are liberal....you have to allow for organizations you don't like. Even nuns and prostitutes.

https://www.irishmirror.ie/news/irish-news/crime/shame-irelands-child-sex-industry-1973749

Most underage prostitutes here are Irish and not from overseas

Both abuse kids tho and that i am not ok with.

oneilla

Nuns and prostitutes is a great band name.

Phileas Frog

Game of Thrones Fan wrote: »

What I want to know, is how did this guy actually got caught?

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/man-65-convicted-of-purchasing-sex-in-landmark-prostitution-case-899086.html

A Garda sting operation I would imagine, they caught quite a few in Limerick a few years ago with the same method.

Discodog

Phileas Frog wrote: »

A Garda sting operation I would imagine, they caught quite a few in Limerick a few years ago with the same method.

They may of copied the UK & used an undercover female officer as bait. She "patrols" in a red light area & then the lads swoop on anyone who approaches her.

Yamanoto

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

People think most underage Prostitutes are foreign. They are not statistically they are Irish.

Can you link to those stats please.

El_Bee

wow that one positive account from a native born Irish prostitute has convinced me that prostitution is harmless and the trafficking of sex slaves is fake news.

Game of Thrones Fan

Phileas Frog wrote: »

A Garda sting operation I would imagine, they caught quite a few in Limerick a few years ago with the same method.

But it was only made illegal about two years ago.

I wonder are some of those hookers on the escortsireland website in cahoots with garda?

Game of Thrones Fan

El_Bee wrote: »

wow that one positive account from a native born Irish prostitute has convinced me that prostitution is harmless and the trafficking of sex slaves is fake news.

None of them seem to be Irish though. They're all foreign. Sometimes you think one looks Irish, but she'll be German or something.

Phileas Frog

Game of Thrones Fan wrote: »

But it was only made illegal about two years ago.

I wonder are some of those hookers on the escortsireland website in cahoots with garda?

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/men-caught-in-prostitution-sting-by-undercover-gardai-enter-guilty-pleas-26799519.html

corner of hells

Yamanoto wrote: »

Can you link to those stats please.

Her information is trawled from media articles,
I very challenged her a few times recenty over misinformation around drug use and women refuges/hostels .
She'll be a bit snappy when she's back.

Game of Thrones Fan

Phileas Frog wrote: »

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/men-caught-in-prostitution-sting-by-undercover-gardai-enter-guilty-pleas-26799519.html

That is just pathetic. For garda to be going out trying to chat up strangers on the street pretending to be hookers. And then they have to name them in the paper.

It's basically a war against straight single men.

imme

I don't understand why so many posters on boards are so constant and strong in their raising of the work of ruhama.

Where are they coming across ruhama.

I can't recall the last time outside of Boards I read in a newspaper or online about them.

'Ah yes prostitution, the ultimate freedom', is the vibe I get off the people who are strong in their objection to ruhama.

Discodog

Game of Thrones Fan wrote: »

That is just pathetic. For garda to be going out trying to chat up strangers on the street pretending to be hookers. And then they have to name them in the paper.

It's basically a war against straight single men.

Meanwhile houses are being broken into etc & no chance of getting the Guards to respond especially as the others are targeting motorists. Much easier to catch the punter rather than the trafficking gangs

Discodog

imme wrote: »

I don't understand why so many posters on boards are so constant and strong in their raising of the work of ruhama.

Where are they coming across ruhama.

I can't recall the last time outside of Boards I read in a newspaper or online about them.

'Ah yes prostitution, the ultimate freedom', is the vibe I get off the people who are strong in their objection to ruhama.

I listen to the radio most days & I am always hearing about them, certainly once a week.

Discodog

Game of Thrones Fan wrote: »

None of them seem to be Irish though. They're all foreign. Sometimes you think one looks Irish, but she'll be German or something.

Most Irish girls won't work in Ireland. They see it a a small place with the chance that someone will recognise them.

Discodog

Game of Thrones Fan wrote: »

But it was only made illegal about two years ago.

I wonder are some of those hookers on the escortsireland website in cahoots with garda?

Being a prostitute is not illegal.

Discodog

An Irish Escort did a Boards ask thread

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=102972654

bazz26

bazz26 wrote: »

zombie thread, Ted.

Laura Lee dead also.

Phileas Frog

Game of Thrones Fan wrote: »

That is just pathetic. For garda to be going out trying to chat up strangers on the street pretending to be hookers. And then they have to name them in the paper.

It's basically a war against straight single men.

You're one of those named aren't you?

Yamanoto

imme wrote: »

I can't recall the last time outside of Boards I read in a newspaper or online about them.

Feature consistently in the IT, Newstalk & RTE Radio 1.

https://www.irishtimes.com/topics/topics-7.1213540?article=true&tag_organisation=Ruhama

Game of Thrones Fan

Phileas Frog wrote: »

You're one of those named aren't you?

No, I'm one of those considering treating himself to a prostitute.

Credit Checker Moose

These stings are not that elaborate at all. The cops know where the prostitutes work from. All they have to do is watch the stream of punters coming and going. They just confront the punter when leaving saying that they know what he was doing. A confession and conviction follows.

The savvy punter will deny all and the cops won't get a conviction. Unless they have a spy camera in the room they have zero evidence.

Justin Credible Darts

I see a lot of uproar over the jailing of 2 prostitutes.




https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/sex-workers-say-kildare-brothel-arrests-prove-law-is-not-fit-for-purpose-929839.html


However what the pc brigade forget is that it was for running a brothel they were chiefly locked up for.


Had it been a man that was running the brothel, the same outcry would not apply

Discodog

Justin Credible Darts wrote: »

I see a lot of uproar over the jailing of 2 prostitutes.




https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/sex-workers-say-kildare-brothel-arrests-prove-law-is-not-fit-for-purpose-929839.html


However what the pc brigade forget is that it was for running a brothel they were chiefly locked up for.


Had it been a man that was running the brothel, the same outcry would not apply

Making a brothel illegal just increases the danger for the workers. Girls would often like to team up for safety but the brothel law makes them liable for prosecution.

Justin Credible Darts

Discodog wrote: »

Making a brothel illegal just increases the danger for the workers. Girls would often like to team up for safety but the brothel law makes them liable for prosecution.

I have no problem with legalizing brothels.


my point is were this a man convicted of running one, there would not be as much condemnation.
In fact I suspect more people might even be glad he was convicted, by the same people who demand equality.


The male is always seen as the creepy one whilst the female always portrayed as the victim

Discodog

Justin Credible Darts wrote: »

I have no problem with legalizing brothels.


my point is were this a man convicted of running one, there would not be as much condemnation.
In fact I suspect more people might even be glad he was convicted, by the same people who demand equality.


The male is always seen as the creepy one whilst the female always portrayed as the victim

A man might be more open to the charge of living off immoral earnings

Church on Tuesday

Now I don't know what to think.

Sure maybe pimps are sound.

Credit Checker Moose

The pimps are not always men. One of the most notorious pimps was a woman!

Rjd2

Discodog wrote: »

Making a brothel illegal just increases the danger for the workers. Girls would often like to team up for safety but the brothel law makes them liable for prosecution.

So no proof of these young foreign girls one of whom is pregnant been coerced into the work,, but they are now going to spend 6 months in jail?.

That's a ****ing scandal tbh.

Yurt2

These laws were and are terrible for sex workers (primarily). Secondarily, the state has no business in telling consenting adults what to do. There were already laws against trafficking and coercion. Ruhama basically wrote them and stuck them under Frances Fitzgerald's nose who promptly signed off on them because it looked vaguely 'feminist.' Not a peep from the opposition either.