Tesla Model S: the safest car in the world?

Sesshoumaru

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/motoring/green-motoring/10254222/Tesla-Model-S-the-safest-car-in-the-world.html

In "side pole intrusion" tests the Model S preserved 63.5 per cent of driver residual space, which Tesla says is thanks to multiple energy-absorbing aluminium extrusions in the side rails of the car that use similar technology to that of the Apollo Lunar Lander.

Tesla also says that the Model S offers considerably better rollover protection than its rivals. In independent tests the car refused to roll over via "normal methods", it says, due to the low centre of gravity created by its floor-mounted battery pack.

It also claims that: "During validation of Model S roof crush protection at an independent commercial facility, the testing machine failed at just above 4g's. While the exact number is uncertain due to Model S breaking the testing machine, what this means is that at least four additional fully loaded Model S vehicles could be placed on top of an owner's car without the roof caving in. This is achieved primarily through a centre (B) pillar reinforcement attached via aerospace grade bolts."

The company also points out that the Model S's lithium-ion battery did not catch fire during NHTSA testing, and says that no production Tesla model has had a battery fire.

It should be interesting to see how it does in the EuroNCAP once it goes on sale in the UK next year. Tesla making reference to technology in the Apollo Lunar Lander is just what I expect from Elon Musk and one of the reasons I believe Tesla as a company won't end up being a short lived affair. They do strike me as a company aiming for better than what we get at the moment.

Anan1

Sesshoumaru wrote: »

Tesla making reference to technology in the Apollo Lunar Lander is just what I expect from Elon Musk and one of the reasons I believe Tesla as a company won't end up being a short lived affair. They do strike me as a company aiming for better than what we get at the moment.

Funny, it struck me as irritating marketing nonsense - and I'm well-disposed towards Tesla! Same with the roof crush protection - saying that four more cars could be placed on the roof tells us precisely nothing about the relative strength of the car. I'd be far more impressed by some diagrams showing us why and how the car is strong.

Anan1

To be fair, it could be great tech. Aluminium is particularly good at absorbing energy, I remember reading about how it worked in the D2 Audi A8. But all that talk about Apollo landers and breaking testing machines is treating potential customers as stupid.

Matt Simis

Anan1 wrote: »

To be fair, it could be great tech. Aluminium is particularly good at absorbing energy, I remember reading about how it worked in the D2 Audi A8. But all that talk about Apollo landers and breaking testing machines is treating potential customers as stupid.

Tesla and Musk are very like Apple and Jobs, a corporate entity with a visionary leader who comes across as arrogant and boastful and sometimes condescending. In a "normal" company the Marketing and Comms team would pen the Press Release, give it to the CEO for approval (with CEO name on it) then release it. Musk wrote this PR himself, and as Businessweek points out:

This release is typical Musk. It’s got a showman’s flair, plenty of bravado, and quite a bit of physics thrown in. Once it hit the Web, various commentators were quick to start poking fun at Tesla’s boasting. Tech writer Dan Frommer tweeted: “While the exact number of inches could not be measured due to Mr. Musk’s mental forces breaking the testing machine.” And the parody Twitter account @BoredElonMusk declared, “I’ve hit a wall for new ideas this morning guys. Lucky I was in a Model S so I’m completely safe.”

However, the facts remain:

There’s a serious element to all this, though. In 10 years, Tesla has come out of nowhere to show up Detroit in a big way. Yes, the Model S is really expensive. And, yes, Tesla has a long way to go to prove itself as a steady, profitable enterprise. But its first quasi-mainstream car has now set the highest-ever marks on all manner of car industry tests while also winning the car industry’s most prestigious awards.

http://www.businessweek.com/articles/2013-08-20/teslas-model-s-sedan-destroys-safety-tests-dot-dot-dot-literally

Unlike Apple though, I dont see anyone as competing with Tesla at the moment.

biko

Goddammit I really want one

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1kCG-WqpVnI

Sesshoumaru

biko wrote: »

Goddammit I really want one

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1kCG-WqpVnI

That was quite a good review!

Mycroft H

I'd love a model S. 300 mile range? That's into the area of being a practicable every day car.

Matt Simis

Sesshoumaru wrote: »

That was quite a good review!

Car and Driver are the only Car mag I read (if I read car mags often).

Media999

Best car in the world. This is the future no doubts about it.

Imagine a Tesla in 10 years.

No oil changes. No expensive petrol and safest cars on the road.

People will soon realise how dumb it is to spend 1000s on fuel just to get from A to B.

keithclancy

Media999 wrote: »

Best car in the world. This is the future no doubts about it.

Imagine a Tesla in 10 years.

No oil changes. No expensive petrol and safest cars on the road.

People will soon realise how dumb it is to spend 1000s on fuel just to get from A to B.

Could be even worse.

These days if you have an electrical problem on a Petrol/Diesel car it can cost a fortune to fix.

Imagine when the whole thing is electric :pac::pac::pac:

dr.fuzzenstein

Media999 wrote: »

Best car in the world. This is the future no doubts about it.

Imagine a Tesla in 10 years.

No oil changes. No expensive petrol and safest cars on the road.

People will soon realise how dumb it is to spend 1000s on fuel just to get from A to B.

You overlook one problem:
Once the billions generated from petrol and diesel dry up, the government will have to make up the shortfall. First they hoik everyone into buying electric, then they will realise they are short money. Up goes VRT, road tax, electricity, etc...
There is no such thing as a free lunch.

mitosis

Media999 wrote: »

Best car in the world. This is the future no doubts about it.

Imagine a Tesla in 10 years.

No oil changes. No expensive petrol and safest cars on the road.

People will soon realise how dumb it is to spend 1000s on fuel just to get from A to B.

...and 30,000 for the replacement battery when it inevitably runs down. Where do you suppose the electricity comes from? Unicorns leaping over rainbows? Fossil fuels. The only thing green here is the owner.

keithclancy

mitosis wrote: »

...and 30,000 for the replacement battery when it inevitably runs down. Where do you suppose the electricity comes from? Unicorns leaping over rainbows? Fossil fuels. The only thing green here is the owner.

mitosis

keithclancy wrote: »

Constructive post. Even now, c80% of all power plants being built are fossil fuel. Do you reckon Japan currently sees Nuclear plants as a good way to power cars?

Anan1

mitosis wrote: »

Do you reckon Japan currently sees Nuclear plants as a good way to power cars?

Did ICE become a bad idea after the Exxon Valdez? Seriously..

mitosis

mitosis wrote: »

Do you reckon Japan currently sees Nuclear plants as a good way to power cars?

Japan are realising that they have no other alternative, they can spend billions like in Ireland for little electricity generation, funded by the tax payer for 0 return or invest in newer reactor design and Thorium MSR/L.F.T.R research.

Nuclear in some form or another is the future. It's the only technology that can provide the power or turn the entire globe into one big ball of turbines everywhere you look.

keithclancy

mitosis wrote: »

Constructive post. Even now, c80% of all power plants being built are fossil fuel. Do you reckon Japan currently sees Nuclear plants as a good way to power cars?

Almost 80% of Frances Electricity Generation comes from Nuclear Power.

Just saying.

H3llR4iser

Anan1 wrote: »

...But all that talk about Apollo landers and breaking testing machines is treating potential customers as stupid.

And it works because, if you want to aim for wide sales, you have to target the general public - which not only would simply be unable to understand an in-depth explanation of how the thing works, they would not even bother reading or listening to it...

Anan1

H3llR4iser wrote: »

And it works because, if you want to aim for wide sales, you have to target the general public - which not only would simply be unable to understand an in-depth explanation of how the thing works, they would not even bother reading or listening to it...

I know - it's just a pity, that's all. If ever there was a car to justify more cerebral marketing the Tesla is it.

ba_barabus

Anan1 wrote: »

I know - it's just a pity, that's all. If ever there was a car to justify more cerebral marketing the Tesla is it.

If Setright was about he'd write a review explaining it

Anan1

ba_barabus wrote: »

If Setright was about he'd write a review explaining it

The very man!

Northern Monkey

My friend was an engineer for lotus and was involved in the setup of this car. Will have a look when I get back home, but threre are a few videos of him on YouTube winter testing it in Sweden.

DubTony

C'mon lads. We all know where it's going. Just a couple more years.

ba_barabus

Anan1 wrote: »

The very man!

Is there anyone left in motoring journalism like him?

Everybody else seems to regurgitate the press releases these days.

Media999

mitosis wrote: »

...and 30,000 for the replacement battery when it inevitably runs down. Where do you suppose the electricity comes from? Unicorns leaping over rainbows? Fossil fuels. The only thing green here is the owner.

Where did i mention the environment or cost?

Id prefer to pull up at a charging station and get fuel for free than spend probably 100 quid to fill up a petrol and do the same distance.

Also where did you get the 30k figure from? Teslas aim is to get a whole car for 30 .

Your just making stuff up to win an argument. How about actually argue the points i actually made rather than have to do that?

keithclancy

keithclancy wrote: »

Could be even worse.

These days if you have an electrical problem on a Petrol/Diesel car it can cost a fortune to fix.

Imagine when the whole thing is electric :pac::pac::pac:

Look of the complexity of the Prius, and it's one of the most reliable cars in the world and It's full of electronics.

dr.fuzzenstein

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

You overlook one problem:
Once the billions generated from petrol and diesel dry up, the government will have to make up the shortfall. First they hoik everyone into buying electric, then they will realise they are short money. Up goes VRT, road tax, electricity, etc...
There is no such thing as a free lunch.

Electricity is going up regardless and will continue to do so as we continue to import billions of euro's worth of oil and gas. The government can't simply up the price of electricity. That would just inevitably force people to install solar pv and wind turbines.

VRT afaik is to be phased out in the next few years anyway. Property tax and water charges would no doubt make up a lot of the short fall in vrt. I would never buy a new car again because of vrt anyway so the Government are not going to get that from me.

The grant may or may not be around in a few years but honestly the Government gave a grant to buy new cars a few years back on the scrappage scheme which would have amounted to much more than the money paid out so far on electric cars.

Petrol and diesel cars will be around for a long time yet unless there is a huge spike in prices at the pumps. As currently there is simply no incentive for most people to change to electric as they can well afford to put 20-30 a week in the tank.

Media999

Media999 wrote: »

Where did i mention the environment or cost?

Id prefer to pull up at a charging station and get fuel for free than spend probably 100 quid to fill up a petrol and do the same distance.

Also where did you get the 30k figure from? Teslas aim is to get a whole car for 30 .

Your just making stuff up to win an argument. How about actually argue the points i actually made rather than have to do that?

Did media999 delete that post ? I can't find it.

Anyway, Tesla offer whoever buys the Model S a brand new battery for 8,000 USD, at the time of purchase. So in 8 years if you're not happy with the range you already have bought the battery. The cost in Euro's is unknown yet.

Tesla boast about one of their prototype model S's having over 300,000 miles on the battery and that may be true because unlike the Leaf with it's much smaller battery the Model S won't see as many full, or close to full charge/ discharge cycles.

Media999

What post?

Are they not just swapping the battery in 60 seconds now anyway so that probably wont be an issue if they keep on giving people new batteries instead of the same battery.

How would they claw back taxes on these if they became really popular and available second hand? They cant jack up Electricity prices as people use it at home. VRT or whatever wont matter on second hand cars. They can hardly just tax electric cars for the sake of being electric. Surely they would be brought to court by car makers for discrimination.

Any ideas what they could do?

Media999

Media999 wrote: »

What post?

Are they not just swapping the battery in 60 seconds now anyway so that probably wont be an issue if they keep on giving people new batteries instead of the same battery.

How would they claw back taxes on these if they became really popular and available second hand? They cant jack up Electricity prices as people use it at home. VRT or whatever wont matter on second hand cars. They can hardly just tax electric cars for the sake of being electric. Surely they would be brought to court by car makers for discrimination.

Any ideas what they could do?

I thought a post of yours was deleted but maybe I'm going mad from too much form posting !

Sure, the Government can increase taxes in general or increase the tax on petrol and diesel and vrt on ice cars to make the change to electric faster.

There are lots they can do but may not need to because of the property tax and water charges. Will be a lot of revenue.

afaik Tesla are not going the battery swap route because they reckon 5 min battery charging is not that far away. It's easier for tesla with their very large battery to accept a higher rate of charge than that in the leaf/Zoe etc wth their much smaller battery.

Their superchargers seem to satisfy owners anyway in the U.S.

The ESB are installing 50kw chargers for the likes of the Leaf, the Tesla can take 120 kw.

Tesla are installing superchargers now in Norway I think it is ? and will start a European wide roll out.

rocky

Is Tesla coming to the UK next year, any ideas on price?