Water meters install problem

TheBoffin

Have a look at page 4 (Climatic Environment) and Operating Temp Here

billy few mates

Thanks for that, I can't see any reference for the installation depth, is that because there is none because it's operational to temperatures of -30C....?

TheBoffin

is that because there is none because it's operational to temperatures of -30C....?

Thats 0.1 to 30 degrees not -30

billy few mates

Sorry I misread that (damned glasses),

0.1C -30C ....? That would mean the things would freeze in even a light frost..?

Surely there must be some guidelines pertaining to a minimum depth for installation to prevent freezing...?

TheBoffin

0.1C -30C ....? That would mean the things would freeze in even a light frost..?

Yea i thought the same I guess we will find out soon.

Alun

Surely it must mean water temperatures.

TheBoffin

Surely it must mean water temperatures.

Its possible Alan, hard to know but im sure time will tell.

Froststop

billy few mates wrote: »

Thanks for that, I can't see any reference for the installation depth, is that because there is none because it's operational to temperatures of -30C....?

Depth of the meter is determined by the minimum length of the boundary box. If the mains water pipe is higher they will just divert the pipe down to meet the boundary box connections.

L1011

billy few mates wrote: »

Sorry I misread that (damned glasses),

0.1C -30C ....? That would mean the things would freeze in even a light frost..?

Surely there must be some guidelines pertaining to a minimum depth for installation to prevent freezing...?

Water is going to freeze at 0 anyway...

The meter is installed at the depth of the existing pipe - they aren't putting in a new distribution network or pulling pipes up closer to the ground. It is very unlikely that there will be any cases of freezing that would not have happened without the meter.

Froststop

MYOB wrote: »

Water is going to freeze at 0 anyway...

It is very unlikely that there will be any cases of freezing that would not have happened without the meter.

We'll have to wait and see. However I have heard boundary box temperatures have been recorded as low as -24 while air temps were only -9 at the time. Would love to find out who did the test and get my hands on the report. The big question is who is liable for the cost if meters do freeze and burst?

deandean

Froststop wrote: »

Would love to find out who did the test and get my hands on the report. The big question is who is liable for the cost if meters do freeze and burst?

Have a guess :mad:. The user is getting screwed for the cost of the meter, 800 euro or so in total spread over about 20 years.

But I can assure you that the consumer will pay for any and all problems with the meter installation after a nominal period of say, 12 months.

Froststop

deandean wrote: »

Have a guess :mad:. The user is getting screwed for the cost of the meter, 800 euro or so in total spread over about 20 years.

But I can assure you that the consumer will pay for any and all problems with the meter installation after a nominal period of say, 12 months.

Yea, €800 for a €95 meter & reader which is about 10-15 years old and getting out dated. However if you know your rights and the law, have anyone signed a contract agreeing to have IW as your water provider?

markpb

Froststop wrote: »

if you know your rights and the law, have anyone signed a contract agreeing to have IW as your water provider?

Contracts aren't relevant - Irish Water get their authority from national legislation.

The Water Services Act 2013 provides BGÉ and Irish Water/Uisce Éireann with the authority to install meters in all domestic properties and provides any of the necessary powers, available to a water services authority under the 2007 Act, that are necessary to meet this objective. [...] The Act also amends section 105 of the Water Services Act 2007 to provide BGÉ and Irish Water/Uisce Éireann with the power to charge households for water services. [...] the Act provides BGÉ and Irish Water/Uisce Éireann with the necessary powers to obtain information from households in receipt of water services and other third parties for the purpose of creating a customer database.

(link)

L1011

Froststop wrote: »

However I have heard boundary box temperatures have been recorded as low as -24 while air temps were only -9 at the time.

What is there to suggest the ground temperatures were any higher than -24 to begin with?

Froststop

MYOB wrote: »

What is there to suggest the ground temperatures were any higher than -24 to begin with?

Sorry, don't follow?

Froststop

billy few mates wrote: »

Does anybody know where I can find the regulations or guidelines for the installation of these meters and the minimum depth they must be installed at...?

Water meter boundary boxes come in two approx sizes and are telescopic.
Short adjusts from 310mm to 545mm
Long adjusts from 470mm to 870mm

Pipe work has to be altered to suit, most likely they will just divert pipe with elbows up or down to required level within the hole for the box.

Dublinstiofán

Everybody should have had a flat rate for the first 10 years and no metres installed at all.

Funding for the first 10 years should have been used to repair and replace existing infrastructure
to ensure smooth operation when meters (should have been) eventually Installed.

They're creating more problems than they're solving at the moment.

Froststop

markpb wrote: »

Contracts aren't relevant - Irish Water get their authority from national legislation.


(link)

Water Directive cannot change the nature of CONTRACT LAW, it's all about consent. If you do not object to a meter being fitted then your allowing consent. That's why they sent out the forms for people to sign for the property tax, which were sent as a Declaration and people signed it thinking they had to by law.

deandean

Froststop wrote: »

Water Directive cannot change the nature of CONTRACT LAW, it's all about consent. If you do not object to a meter being fitted then your allowing consent. That's why they sent out the forms for people to sign for the property tax, which were sent as a Declaration and people signed it thinking they had to by law.

Hmmm that is starting to sound like freeman nonsense.

L1011

Froststop wrote: »

Sorry, don't follow?

You said that the temperature being recorded in the boundary box in the apparent case was -24, what is there to indicate that the ground temperature surrounding a pipe adjacent to the boundary box wasn't -24 anyway?

Froststop wrote: »

Water Directive cannot change the nature of CONTRACT LAW, it's all about consent. If you do not object to a meter being fitted then your allowing consent. That's why they sent out the forms for people to sign for the property tax, which were sent as a Declaration and people signed it thinking they had to by law.

Nonsense of the highest order.

Victor

Froststop wrote: »

Water Directive cannot change the nature of CONTRACT LAW, it's all about consent. If you do not object to a meter being fitted then your allowing consent. That's why they sent out the forms for people to sign for the property tax, which were sent as a Declaration and people signed it thinking they had to by law.

On topic please.

If you want to discuss the politics of the matter, take it elsewhere.

Moderator

Froststop

After looking back through the thread, I see no-one has suggested what they would like to have in their water meter system.

What features/options would people like to have included or is everyone happy just to get a bill in the door every month?

Victor

Froststop wrote: »

After looking back through the thread, I see no-one has suggested what they would like to have in their water meter system.[

While I realise you aren't suggesting piped hot water to everyone's door (some people do have it, especially with CHP systems), I'm not sure what you are suggesting.

Do you mean different billing options and tariffs? Cheaper water in autumn and more expensive in freezing weather / high summer?

Froststop

Victor wrote: »

While I realise you aren't suggesting piped hot water to everyone's door (some people do have it, especially with CHP systems), I'm not sure what you are suggesting.

Do you mean different billing options and tariffs? Cheaper water in autumn and more expensive in freezing weather / high summer?

Maybe I should have worded it a little better Victor.
Are people happy just getting a paper bill in the door each month without access to view their own data/readings, or being able to monitor their own consumption and monitor for potential leaks etc.

Has any of the posters any ideas/features they would think would be of benefit in order to keep an eye on consumption etc? i.e. on line data access, water meter temp monitoring, live/automatic consumption costs, graph readings showing daily consumption.

Furp

I would like smart meters and this goes for all my utility suppliers, it would be very useful to have either realtime or even daily updates that you could view on the web or mobile devices of your usage.

Froststop

Furp wrote: »

I would like smart meters and this goes for all my utility suppliers, it would be very useful to have either realtime or even daily updates that you could view on the web or mobile devices of your usage.

You would think with the technology available today that it would be the way to go as it can be done no prob, being able to login and view all your usage, costs, etc would be a huge advantage IMO.

However there dose seem to be a worry regarding health, even though we forget about it when visiting a mobile phone shop.

Five Lamps

Froststop wrote: »

Maybe I should have worded it a little better Victor.
Are people happy just getting a paper bill in the door each month without access to view their own data/readings, or being able to monitor their own consumption and monitor for potential leaks etc.

Has any of the posters any ideas/features they would think would be of benefit in order to keep an eye on consumption etc? i.e. on line data access, water meter temp monitoring, live/automatic consumption costs, graph readings showing daily consumption.

According to Irish Water the meters will be readable, at least that's what they said on Twitter.

Victor

I'm not sure what meter model(s) had been selected, but I doubt many of them will be internet connected.

Froststop

Five Lamps wrote: »

According to Irish Water the meters will be readable, at least that's what they said on Twitter.

It will be readable for the home owner all right, if you open and look into the boundary box, same as any water meter.
Irish Water will read them quarterly using drive-by system.

Froststop

Victor wrote: »

I'm not sure what meter model(s) had been selected, but I doubt many of them will be internet connected.

That's right Victor, they will only be on a drive-by system