Wind Farms

Awakening2014

Does anyone else think that it is a disgrace that the two wind-farm companies expect people to welcome the construction of massive windmills that will entirely change the scenery of the midlands? All for the benefit of exporting power to Britain, who themselves have banned windmills due to the fact they are eyesores.

If I was the two companies involved I'd cut my losses and apologize to the people for coming up with such a crazy scheme in the first place. Everyone without a vested interest is completely against the scheme. People may own there land but they don't own the skyline.

With the level of opposition they will never be granted planning permission anyway.

huey1975

I like the look of those turbines and I know a few farmers who would benefit a lot so I hope they get the go ahead.

BaronVon

I personally think they look great. plus you're creating an industry, jobs, and much needed, renewable energy.

I wonder how many of the people against wind farm development have properly researched and educated themselves about the pros and cons of wind farm development?

huey1975

That's two in favour and one against. In a democracy I think that means we can look forward to cheaper renewable low emission energy. As my son would say "tough titties"

BaronVon

huey1975 wrote: »

That's two in favour and one against. In a democracy I think that means we can look forward to cheaper renewable low emission energy. As my son would say "tough titties"

It might be fairer to at least add a poll!

Awakening2014

Do you not think they spoil the view? They're taller than the Eiffel tower. Planning permission would be impossible to obtain for any buildings that size in the county. Most houses and villages have lots of signs up against them. They have nothing to offer the local community. Why can't they be built in Britain? This won't be the first time that the people of Ireland will be inconvenienced by Britain's resource requirements.

BaronVon

The Westmeath skyline?

Awakening2014

infacteh your location is leixlip so your opinion does'nt matter. What is your interest in the subject?

As fossil fuels get harder & more expensive to extract, there are basically two choices;

Use less or find alternatives.

And using less will degrade the quality of life (and the economy), so wind turbines it is.


In the not too distant future the choice will be Frac' or freeze, but we're not there yet!

Awakening2014

infacteh wrote: »

The Westmeath skyline?

Skyline Def:

the boundary line between earth and sky; the apparent horizon: A sail appeared against the skyline.

Yes the Westmeath skyline.

The law is quite clear-cut if enough people object, and their concern is warranted then they can't be built.

It has nothing to do with a majority vote. Are we going to have a mini windfarm referendum in Westmeath

Even if this was possible the windfarms would be shot down.

Oh by the way this power is for Britain. They energy requirements don't concern me.

My local environment concerns me.

BaronVon

Awakening2014 wrote: »

infacteh your location is leixlip so your opinion does'nt matter. What is your interest in the subject?

I work in Westmeath, and I'm originally from there. Not being smart, but Westmeath is quite flat, and would not be considered one of the more scenic parts of the country.

Is your issue that the plan is to export the energy to the UK?

Would you be more accepting of the plan if the generated electricity was for the domestic market?

Awakening2014

infacteh wrote: »

I work in Westmeath, and I'm originally from there. Not being smart, but Westmeath is quite flat, and would not be considered one of the more scenic parts of the country.

Is your issue that the plan is to export the energy to the UK?

Would you be more accepting of the plan if the generated electricity was for the domestic market?

The aesthetics of a particular area are quite subjective. I myself think that there is some nice unspoiled scenery in Westmeath, around Ballymore Killare and the Hill of Uisneach. Lough Owel, Lough Derravaragh, Belvedeare, the Shannon in Athlone.

The fact is that these windfarms are foreign objects that are around ten times higher than the surrounding country side and are to be built everywhere.

If you were to get someone from China and drive them through Westmeath and ask them to describe the scenery they might mention different things, for example the green fields rivers lakes.

If you asked the question after these were built, the first thing they would mention would be the windfarms.

You should never underestimate how much rural people love their surroundings.

Any farmer that is not getting money would be against the scheme, lets say if they were built on public lands.

Why would anyone who is not selling out welcome the construction of these alien constructions.


I would not welcome the wind-farms regardless of where the energy was for.
However the fact that they are for Britain makes things worse.

Not because I harbor some republican grudge, but because the banned the construction of wind-farms in Britain because they were regarded as destroying the countryside. The fact that they think its ok to build them on my doorstep bugs me. It is almost imperialistic.

BaronVon

While I know where you're coming from, everybody needs services, but nobody wants them beside them. For example, we all like to have our rubbish bins collected, but nobody wants a dump in their area!

Energy and food security are going to be huge issues in years to come. I think Ireland, if it does things correctly (and it normally doesn't) can set the groundwork now to future proof ourselves for our future generations. While the circumstances around the proposed windfarms in westmeath may be far from ideal, to be against windpower solely because it's an eyesore is a typical insular irish trait which has this country the way it is.

Something like 80% of our electricity comes from imported fossil fuels. With windpower in general, Ireland has an opportunity to be almost self sufficient in our energy needs, but the prevailing attitude in this country seems to be against them, because they're an eyesore!

Can you suggest a clean, renewable alternative to windpower? And I mean in general, not just in your neighbourhood.

There are plenty of lovely areas in Westmeath. I would never advocate building them in Fore, for example, but there are plenty of places too which are not the Ring of Kerry either!

Have you seen any windfarms in person? There's a small one in North Tipp, and I think it looks great.

Awakening2014

If the wind-farms were for Ireland, and the last option available to fulfill our energy needs then I would consider them. I still think they should be built offshore and that the ones planned are two big.

What gives two companies the right to transform a landscape that has been there for thousands of years, in order to profit from Britain's renewable energy requirements?

The arguments you have made are irrelevant because they are not being to be built to fulfill requirements in this community.

If you can explain why they can not be built in Britain I might entertain your argument.

Anyway I have no doubt that they won't be built. I am 100% certain.

roosterman71

They can't be built in England for a reason that escapes me. And I remember reading somewhere that Ireland agreed to them being built here for England as part of a big bag of cash the British sent our way back when everything went to crap 5/6 years ago.

Personally, I don't mind them. I'd prefer if they were smaller, and the energy generated be kept here and maybe sold onto England. At least then, if we run low on power here, we could redirect the output to our own national grid.

There are pockets of these things scattered throughout the country. Might be a small idea for some of these landowners to brush up on their wind power knowledge, and then let people tour around their land and explain what the turbines do/how they work/etc. Personally, if I drive near these things I'll often stop and take a look.

Awakening2014

roosterman71 wrote: »

They can't be built in England for a reason that escapes me. And I remember reading somewhere that Ireland agreed to them being built here for England as part of a big bag of cash the British sent our way back when everything went to crap 5/6 years ago.

Personally, I don't mind them. I'd prefer if they were smaller, and the energy generated be kept here and maybe sold onto England. At least then, if we run low on power here, we could redirect the output to our own national grid.

There are pockets of these things scattered throughout the country. Might be a small idea for some of these landowners to brush up on their wind power knowledge, and then let people tour around their land and explain what the turbines do/how they work/etc. Personally, if I drive near these things I'll often stop and take a look.

Selling their country's soul to England for the queen's pound.

Can't say I'm surprised. Following the path followed by thousands of Irishmen. Enda Kenny is merely the international financiers country manager. There even looking for people to retire later. Clearly not progress.

Anyway they can't be built with so much opposition. If they do then democracy has failed. Or has that happened already?

roosterman71

They are being built a few miles from me on a bog. The bog was closed as part of the EU regulations, and then planning permission was granted for the wind farm

Awakening2014

That's a joke, close a bog supplying local energy needs to build a windfarm to supply power to Britain.

It amazes me what people think they can get away with. I don't think there have ever been signs erected protesting about anything before in the county.

There s not a hope of them being built. Shame on any farmer who inflicts this on the community. I thought they were supposed to love their land. Do they not see themselves as custodians for the next generation.

Whatever assurances, contacts, agreements, guarantees these companies have to get these built, it won't happen. We the people will not allow it.

I've never witnessed such widespread anger over such a project .

The companies should make a clever business decision and opt out. England has done enough harm around here already. You may say it's in the past, they should be paying for our fuel for what they did to our own flesh and blood.

Froststop

Awakening2014 wrote: »

Does anyone else think that it is a disgrace that the two wind-farm companies expect people to welcome the construction of massive windmills that will entirely change the scenery of the midlands? All for the benefit of exporting power to Britain, who themselves have banned windmills due to the fact they are eyesores.

If I was the two companies involved I'd cut my losses and apologize to the people for coming up with such a crazy scheme in the first place. Everyone without a vested interest is completely against the scheme. People may own there land but they don't own the skyline.

With the level of opposition they will never be granted planning permission anyway.

I wouldn't pray for them not to get planning, there is alot of them in the west cork area in scenic areas. The locals will have to stand their ground and fight to stop them if necessary. I was unaware they were baned in the UK. We get the sh.t end of the stick as usual.

Awakening2014

Froststop wrote: »

I wouldn't pray for them not to get planning, there is alot of them in the west cork area in scenic areas. The locals will have to stand their ground and fight to stop them if necessary. I was unaware they were baned in the UK. We get the sh.t end of the stick as usual.

I d join a subversive group even to stop them. Or strap gelignite to them. No way are these going up. I see these as a direct attack on our sovereignty.

Mainstream beware don't waste your money you've lost enough already. You ll notice why you should nt build them. Things are going to get difficult. In strange ways you don t even understand.

BaronVon

Awakening2014 wrote: »

I d join a subversive group even to stop them. Or strap gelignite to them. No way are these going up. I see these as a direct attack on our sovereignty.

I wouldn't be getting too up in arms about it. One thing about them is they are not permanent, bar the concrete foundation. I doubt they do much permanent damage to an area.

It seems to be they typical Irish protest at the moment, 'down with this sort of thing'!

And you'd risk long term imprisonment, locked away from all your family and friends, rather than have the inconvenience of having to look at some windmills?

roosterman71

Awakening2014 wrote: »

There s not a hope of them being built.

I think you need to catch up here. They are already being built

Awakening2014

roosterman71 wrote: »

I think you need to catch up here. They are already being built

Without planning permission? Where? How come it's not in the paper. "typical Irish protest" bit of a generalisation.

You'd have to catch me first

Are the guards getting beer from mainstream as well as shell?

Zubeneschamali

If you drive through France you'll see plenty of giant wind turbines standing around, I think they look good.

I'm sure the OP would prefer them to the Nuclear stations you also see about the place in France.

roosterman71

Awakening2014 wrote: »

Without planning permission? Where? How come it's not in the paper. "typical Irish protest" bit of a generalisation.

You'd have to catch me first

Are the guards getting beer from mainstream as well as shell?

Ya can find this yourself using Google
Midland Tribune Article
Planning permission

Your full of talk to be honest, and if I may say so, a bit of a keyboard warrior. You have a thread blasting the building of these things (and in some ways I agree) but your knowledge of what's happening/planned/completed is very bad

This thread is just you ranting, and is becoming pointless

Tordelback

Awakening2014 wrote: »

That's a joke, close a bog supplying local energy needs to build a windfarm to supply power to Britain.

An acre per turbine, including access road etc. That is bugger-all footprint compared to large-scale peat extraction. And the real advantage is that that is all that will ever be needed during the life of the turbine, and when it's dismantled the bog will still be there around the site. Unlike with turbary power generation.

Like it or not, windfarms are coming - may not be Greenwire or the other crowd, and it may not be next year, but it's going to happen, and the midlands and offshore banks are prime sites.

The notion that it's wrong because we are exporting power is daft - the more of anything renewable we can export the better for all of us, as long as it's not our kids. Ensuring that we get the best deal with the minimum impact is the real issue.

nice_guy80

I read a report in a Roscommon paper where a family living close to a turbine had to move to Leitrim due to the effect it was having on their family's health

GP advised them to move

wind turbines might look 'nice' from far off, but if built close to your home or school, what then?

Outkast_IRE

nice_guy80 wrote: »

I read a report in a Roscommon paper where a family living close to a turbine had to move to Leitrim due to the effect it was having on their family's health

GP advised them to move

wind turbines might look 'nice' from far off, but if built close to your home or school, what then?

Trust me when I say, when they are deciding on the turbine placement how it affects houses near them is a serious consideration, if there is any shadow flicker or noise pollution they usually take steps to sort it or buy you out.

Greensleeves

It's hard to see these wind farms going ahead given the amount of local opposition.

They have been discussed on two other threads on here:

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056863858&page=111
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056940749&page=14

Greensleeves

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

If you drive through France you'll see plenty of giant wind turbines standing around, I think they look good.

Given the size of France I was surprised at how few wind turbines there are and at how small the ones I have seen are compared to the 185m turbines proposed for the Irish midlands. The French anti-wind group Vent de Colère, or "Wind of Anger" has battled against the development of the sector for years and last year contested France's onshore wind tariffs effectively bringing the wind energy industry to a halt for the moment.

http://www.thenational.ae/business/energy/french-wind-power-spun-into-knots

Fuzzy Clam

Strange that in my area I've heard very little opposition to these farms. Maybe one reason is because we've moved on from the anti Brit ranting which seems to be the main focus of some of those opposed to them.

Fuzzy Clam

Fuzzy Clam wrote: »

Strange that in my area I've heard very opposition to these farms. Maybe one reason is because we've moved on with the anti Brit ranting which seems to be the main focus of some of those opposed to them.

Hopefully, it's a realization that if we want to continue with our expensive (energy wise) lifestyles, then it is going to cost us!
Fossil fuels are being depleted at an ever increasing rate and in some cases are reaching their maximum extraction rate, after which the only way is down (in the case of some fuels very rapidly)
The energy has to come from somewhere, either renewables or we revert to a lower energy lifestyle.

Fuzzy Clam

Awakening2014 wrote: »

I d join a subversive group even to stop them. Or strap gelignite to them. No way are these going up. I see these as a direct attack on our sovereignty.

Mainstream beware don't waste your money you've lost enough already. You ll notice why you should nt build them. Things are going to get difficult. In strange ways you don t even understand.

If you didn't come across as a total moron, you might have an argument against windfarms. But your pathetic rantings do nothing for your cause.

nice_guy80

Fuzzy Clam wrote: »

Strange that in my area I've heard very little opposition to these farms. Maybe one reason is because we've moved on from the anti Brit ranting which seems to be the main focus of some of those opposed to them.

so we're facilitating energy generation for the UK with very little benefit to our own economy, with huge tax breaks in the UK for these energy companies

while ruining our own countryside, dividing communities and causing environmental problems for houses and families up and down the country

nice_guy80

nice_guy80 wrote: »

so we're facilitating energy generation for the UK with very little benefit to our own economy, with huge tax breaks in the UK for these energy companies

while ruining our own countryside, dividing communities and causing environmental problems for houses and families up and down the country

If any government ministers have any sense, then there will be a decent tax take from this scheme.

nice_guy80

Deleted User wrote: »

If any government ministers have any sense, then there will be a decent tax take from this scheme.

Ray Burke?
he was a good 'un.
oil exploration, etc

Froststop

Deleted User wrote: »

If any government ministers have any sense, then there will be a decent tax take from this scheme.

There's a great idea!
If we had that from wind farms and the oil we'd be laughing like the Norwegians.

Greensleeves

On Monday the 12th of August Scottish Conservative Euro MP Struan Stevenson addressed a protest rally against wind turbines in Athlone organised by Marian Harkin, Independent MEP for Ireland’s North West constituency.

Speaking after the event, Struan Stevenson, a well-known and outspoken critic of the Scottish Government’s wind energy policy and author of a recent book ‘SO MUCH WIND – The Green Energy Myth’, said:

“This rally proved an enormous success and I was happy to share my views about Scotland’s disastrous wind energy policy with the people of the Irish Midlands, where one of the world’s largest wind factory developments is being proposed. This project, called Greenwire, will see over 1,100 onshore and 1,300 offshore installations of the biggest turbines on the planet tower from 157 to 184 metres high over at least 50 separate industrial wind parks and offshore arrays, to supply Britain with electricity. The project will not even be connected to the Irish electricity grid, but will involve thousands of kilometres of underground cabling dug along the sides of Irish roads and two giant undersea cables, to link it to the UK national grid in North and West Wales."

There is more...

http://www.struanstevenson.com/media/news-release/scottish_mep_brings_anti-windfarm_message_to_hundreds_at_rally_in_ireland/

Fuzzy Clam

nice_guy80 wrote: »

so we're facilitating energy generation for the UK with very little benefit to our own economy, with huge tax breaks in the UK for these energy companies

while ruining our own countryside, dividing communities and causing environmental problems for houses and families up and down the country

To address those last comments, Ruining our countryside: yes, of course there are areas where these turbines would not be acceptable. But believe me, not all of Westmeath are areas of outstanding beauty.
Dividing communities: The only people doing this are the anti brigade. As I've already stated, not much opposition around these parts that I've heard.
As for environmental issues, from what I gather there have been only a very small number of issues where windfarms already exist.
And speaking of ruining our countryside, who is going to remove the ugly "No windfarm" signs that have appeared in some of the towns/villages around here?

Zubeneschamali

Greensleeves wrote: »

The project will not even be connected to the Irish electricity grid

That's mad stuff, Ted, mad.

Eoin247

First of all wind farms are most certainly not banned in the UK. In fact a simple google search will show that they have huge numbers of turbines being built in the UK as we speak. The OP is spouting nonsense in this regard.

Also I personally find them to be somewhat visually appealing in the environment in moderation. They look far better than 90% of country houses and roads in my opinion. I have lived in the Mullingar countryside all my life, and I don't oppose progression.

nice_guy80

Fuzzy Clam wrote: »

To address those last comments, Ruining our countryside: yes, of course there are areas where these turbines would not be acceptable. But believe me, not all of Westmeath are areas of outstanding beauty.
Dividing communities: The only people doing this are the anti brigade. As I've already stated, not much opposition around these parts that I've heard.
As for environmental issues, from what I gather there have been only a very small number of issues where windfarms already exist.
And speaking of ruining our countryside, who is going to remove the ugly "No windfarm" signs that have appeared in some of the towns/villages around here?

you need to read more into problems with windfarms.
where have these huge wind turbines been built before on land? nowhere!

the companies are dividing communities with their tactics to get landowners on board with confidentiality clauses

you must have missed the march in Mullingar a few weeks back, and the protests outside the Dail too

Zubeneschamali

nice_guy80 wrote: »

you must have missed the march in Mullingar a few weeks back, and the protests outside the Dail too

If you promised to hand a million quid to everyone in the country, somebody would march on the Dail to protest. They always do.

Greensleeves

Eoin247 wrote: »

First of all wind farms are most certainly not banned in the UK. In fact a simple google search will show that they have huge numbers of turbines being built in the UK as we speak. The OP is spouting nonsense in this regard.

No they are not banned in the UK but they cause such public outcry that getting planning for a windfarm on the scale of what is being proposed for the Irish midlands would be nigh on impossible.

Here's how the UK Independent newspaper reported the news:

UK to outflank objectors with wind farms in Ireland

Faced with fervent and growing opposition to onshore wind farms in the UK, Tory MPs are backing a plan to site those facilities in Ireland – and then export the renewable energy generated back to Britain using cables running under the Irish Sea, to Wales.
...
More importantly, such a development could take the pressure off the need for many more wind farms in the British countryside and save David Cameron from the wrath of his backbenchers who are in revolt at the Government's current plans. The scheme, called Greenwire, is the brainchild of an American company called Element Power.
...
It says the Irish have a less reactionary attitude to onshore wind turbine developments than the British and points out that it would provide significant economic developments to the republic, while solving the UK Government's political conundrum. "From the Tory side, this is something that addresses their concerns about further onshore wind farm development, while at the same time bringing them closer to green growth," said Mike O'Neill, the president of Element Power. "And in Ireland people appear to be less concerned about the construction of wind farms and place greater emphasis on the economic growth they can bring.
...
But what is yet untested is the reaction of the Irish people to the plan. Wind may be an unlimited resource but the countryside is not and some experts predict resentment of what could be perceived as a fresh British land-grab.

http://www.independent.co.uk/environment/green-living/uk-to-outflank-objectors-with-wind-farms-in-ireland-8202948.html

kjkkments

I think they look great better than a big lump of a peat powered station anyway .Some people will resist change/progress no matter now good a case is made for it.

Greensleeves

kjkkments wrote: »

I think they look great better than a big lump of a peat powered station anyway .Some people will resist change/progress no matter now good a case is made for it.

There doesn't seem to be a good case for the midlands windfarms; go ahead and make a convincing case if you can.

kjkkments

Greensleeves wrote: »

There doesn't seem to be a good case for the midlands windfarms; go ahead and make a convincing case if you can.

I dont really have to if the business case works for the investors then thats it. My point is that I think they look good they create clean renewable energy and do very little harm. I was also saying that with any new tech you will always get begrudgers who will resist progress regardless of the potential benefits. You get the same type of intransigence with all sorts of things eg hunting, orange marches motorway construction its just some peoples way I guess.

Awakening2014

It's not a democracy they will not be built. Fuzzy clam you don't have a clue. I don't think Britain will be needing our power anyway. Just cause they messed up our economy and ancestors does not mean they messed up our soul. I'm afraid the days of rule are coming to an end. By the way Fuzzy Clam what is your vested interest. No one cares about windfarms unless they have a soul and hate them or are getting money from them. I will not stand for them in our county.

FULL STOP
It will be another red line

Awakening2014

If you want to cross me that's your prerogative. Live by the sword be prepared to die by it too.

A Primal Nut

huey1975 wrote: »

That's two in favour and one against. In a democracy I think that means we can look forward to cheaper renewable low emission energy. As my son would say "tough titties"

They are definitely not cheaper, they are being heavily subsidised by our electricity bills. In order to operate they require large amounts of reliable energy produced by fossil fuels as an input. Then they produce highly irregular electricity which is very expensive to work smoothly into the grid.

The practical benefits (turning off other forms of energy) are nil. They are there to make politicans look good.

nice_guy80

one nuclear plant in the UK would produce the same amount of electricity, for Britain