So its quiet around here

clairefontaine

I know about Frances healthcare. It's fabulous and its bursting at the seams financially. Also goes with french taxes. You like paying 80%?

Would never work in the USA. We are too customer oriented, I want my own birth room with a 48" tv, cable, a doula, a foot messager, and a birthing pool. Don't forget the double bed with 600 thread count Pima cotton sheets. Ok exaggerating but its along those lines.

The French would laugh at you and tell you to piss off. If you did that in the US the patient would have you in front of the medical board in no time.

It's a completely different philosophy around medicine, like a vocation, a public service.

InTheTrees

clairefontaine wrote: »

I know about Frances healthcare. It's fabulous and its bursting at the seams financially. Also goes with french taxes. You like paying 80%?

Would never work in the USA. We are too customer oriented, I want my own birth room with a 48" tv, cable, a doula, a foot messager, and a birthing pool. Don't forget the double bed with 600 thread count Pima cotton sheets. Ok exaggerating but its along those lines.

The French would laugh at you and tell you to piss off. If you did that in the US the patient would have you in front of the medical board in no time.

It's a completely different philosophy around medicine, like a vocation, a public service.

SO you're resigned to the $300 check up then?

Nothing can be done, right?

clairefontaine

InTheTrees wrote: »

SO you're resigned to the $300 check up then?

Nothing can be done right?

Nope. I don't go to the doctor.

Transparency in the medical professions would be a start. I want to see a list of prices on websites and is the reception area.

Make them be competive like other businesses. Get them on padding and price fixing too.

And open up the border so you can buy your pills from Canada.

InTheTrees

clairefontaine wrote: »

Nope. I don't go to the doctor.

Transparency in the medical professions would be a start. I want to see a list of prices on websites and is the reception area.

Make them be competive like other businesses. Get them on padding and price fixing too.

And open up the border so you can buy your pills from Canada.

Ouch.

So just hope you dont get sick?

Is that an adequate healthcare "system" for a civilized country?

And who pays for your treatment if you're hit by a bus and bleeding in the street? Should those people be left to die?

clairefontaine

InTheTrees wrote: »

Ouch.

So just hope you dont get sick?

Is that an adequate healthcare "system" for a civilized country?

And who pays for your treatment if you're hit by a bus and bleeding in the street? Should those people be left to die?

Yeah I know. It's pretty nuts.

I was talking to one small business over, sells used cars, who said if he got sick, everything he has would be confiscated. He can't afford insurance. And yet when Obama care kicks in, he'll have to let employees go because he can't afford that either.

InTheTrees

clairefontaine wrote: »

Yeah I know. It's pretty nuts.

I was talking to one small business over, sells used cars, who said if he got sick, everything he has would be confiscated. He can't afford insurance. And yet when Obama care kicks in, he'll have to let employees go because he can't afford that either.

The law is that if its over fifty employees then he has to buy it. Otherwise not. SO either he has over fifty employees or he's confused or he's lying to you.

And if he has over fifty employees and doesnt provide any insurance at all then, thats unusual and he needs to go to business school.

InTheTrees

clairefontaine wrote: »

Yeah I know. It's pretty nuts.

Well you only have another month or two before the new insurance plans will be available. Although I think the benefits dont start until Jan 1st.

I believe Washington State's Insurance options wont be available until the end of this month. But Oregon already has its web page up for buying the insurance plans and estimating how much you'll have to pay, check it out:

http://www.coveroregon.com/calculators/individual-calculator/

Stingerbar

clairefontaine wrote: »

I know about Frances healthcare. It's fabulous and its bursting at the seams financially. Also goes with french taxes. You like paying 80%?

There are a lot of myths surrounding this.

For example, I'm in a bordering country, and if I were to earn let's say approx 4000 per month, I would pay about 1300 tax. It's just less than a third really. Quite a bit. However for that tax I get..

A very complete healthcare system with no nasty clauses, pretty much covers everything, all the way from doctors visits and perscription drugs up to serious hospital treatment.

On the work related side, I get up to 40 days holiday a year (translates into about 7 to 8 weeks paid holidays), paid career breaks, very solid job security and a good social welfare safety net if I were to lose my job.

I'm not saying one system is better than the other, but I just feel there is this residual paranoia in the States of anything resembling communism socialism and a huge reluctance to change the status quo.

Obviously I'd love to pay less tax, but for pure peace of mind, I prefer the "European" model.

Amerika

InTheTrees wrote: »

Hmm. SO you're aware of alternatives but you don't want to share then with us? Or did you forget?

Here are a few for your reading enjoyment. Testing will take place in two days.

2009
http://www.cbsnews.com/htdocs/pdf/GOPHealthPlan_061709.pdf

Paul Ryan’s plan
http://paulryan.house.gov/healthcare/#.UhYNYtJJOuI

2013 (H.R.2300 )
http://tomprice.house.gov/sites/tomprice.house.gov/files/HR%202300%20Section%20by%20Section.pdf

InTheTrees

Amerika wrote: »

Here are a few for your reading enjoyment. Testing will take place in two days.

2009
http://www.cbsnews.com/htdocs/pdf/GOPHealthPlan_061709.pdf

Paul Ryan’s plan
http://paulryan.house.gov/healthcare/#.UhYNYtJJOuI

2013 (H.R.2300 )
http://tomprice.house.gov/sites/tomprice.house.gov/files/HR%202300%20Section%20by%20Section.pdf

My reading enjoyment? They are your parties alternative to the leglslation we were talking about. SO which do you think is the most viable?

Amerika

InTheTrees wrote: »

My reading enjoyment? They are your parties alternative to the leglslation we were talking about. SO which do you think is the most viable?

ObamaCare is the law of the land (although the Obama regime believes they can keep changing the law to suit themselves). All the GOP proposals are nothing more than a moot point and worthless as ObamaCare will not be repealed or replaced until our economy crumbles or we move into a single payer system. We've got to just learn to live with the train wreck for now.

InTheTrees

Stingerbar wrote: »

There are a lot of myths surrounding this.

If there's one thing the US right wingers really really hate its comparing the United States unfavorably with any other country. On any topic. They never do it. And they'll heap scorn on anything who tries.

SO that some of them are under the impression the french pay 80% tax, or that their economy is collapsing, is understandable, because they've been told this by people who know they'll never check.

And the criticisms you'll see here, seemingly incomplete and barely thought out, actually reflect pretty closely the opposition within the US. Its just distortions and half truths and spin, covered in regurgitated buzz words like Communism and Tax that are designed to scare people.

This ties in with the theme of this thread too because rational debate is getting harder and harder to find, so people dont really bother.

InTheTrees

Just to illustrate here's a great story about republicans in Louisana. 29% of them blame Obama for the lacklustre hurricane katrina response even though it was 3 ears before he took office. Classic:


"A large number of Louisiana Republicans think President Barack Obama is to blame for the federal government's poor response to Hurricane Katrina, according to a new Public Policy Polling survey released Wednesday -- despite the fact that the storm occurred three years before he took office.
The Democratic-leaning polling firm, which provided its results to Talking Points Memo, found that 29 percent of Louisiana Republicans said Obama was responsible for the Katrina response. Twenty-eight percent put the blame on President George W. Bush, whose administration did in fact oversee the federal response to Katrina. Nearly half (44 percent) of the Louisiana Republicans polled didn't know who to blame."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/08/21/obama-hurricane-katrina_n_3790612.html?utm_hp_ref=politics

Amerika

InTheTrees wrote: »

If there's one thing the US right wingers really really hate its comparing the United States unfavorably with any other country. On any topic. They never do it. And they'll heap scorn on anything who tries.

SO that some of them are under the impression the french pay 80% tax, or that their economy is collapsing, is understandable, because they've been told this by people who know they'll never check.

And the criticisms you'll see here, seemingly incomplete and barely thought out, actually reflect pretty closely the opposition within the US. Its just distortions and half truths and spin, covered in regurgitated buzz words like Communism and Tax that are designed to scare people.

This ties in with the theme of this thread too because rational debate is getting harder and harder to find, so people dont really bother.

Hmmm... We do know France is in an economic crisis. France's manufactured products cost far too much to produce compared with competing goods from its neighbors and Asia, and the rapid deterioration in its foreign trade is the result. Taxes keep going up to pay for government spending, which is now 57% of GDP, and increasing. The lowering of social benefits is inevitable, wouldn't you agree?

The right wing as you call us might not know all that France does and faces, but yes… we simply refuse to worship the quicksand they walk on, no matter how good their health care is today.

clairefontaine

InTheTrees wrote: »

If there's one thing the US right wingers really really hate its comparing the United States unfavorably with any other country. On any topic. They never do it. And they'll heap scorn on anything who tries.

SO that some of them are under the impression the french pay 80% tax, or that their economy is collapsing, is understandable, because they've been told this by people who know they'll never check.

And the criticisms you'll see here, seemingly incomplete and barely thought out, actually reflect pretty closely the opposition within the US. Its just distortions and half truths and spin, covered in regurgitated buzz words like Communism and Tax that are designed to scare people.

This ties in with the theme of this thread too because rational debate is getting harder and harder to find, so people dont really bother.

In the trees, yes some do pay 80%. Why do you think Deppardieu left France. Others too.

And ask anyone, the French system can't go on. They are bursting at the seams with it.

InTheTrees

clairefontaine wrote: »

In the trees, yes some do pay 80%. Why do you think Deppardieu left France. Others too.

And ask anyone, the French system can't go on. They are bursting at the seams with it.

"Ask anyone" really doesnt mean much. The modern equivalent would be to google it right?

Did you? If you did you would see some negative numbers for August but generally there's growth right? The country is not by any measure collapsing, imploding or heading into recession.

Right?

And anyway, how does that relate to the efficiency of the healthcare system? Are you implying the healthcare system in france is draging the economy down with it?

SO alright. You (and fox news) hate France and their socialist distopia, is there any country in the world that has a system that is better than the current US system?

InTheTrees

Amerika wrote: »

The right wing as you call us might not know all that France does and faces, but yes… we simply refuse to worship the quicksand they walk on, no matter how good their health care is today.

QED

clairefontaine

InTheTrees wrote: »

"Ask anyone" really doesnt mean much. The modern equivalent would be to google it right?

Did you? If you did you would see some negative numbers for August but generally there's growth right? The country is not by any measure collapsing, imploding or heading into recession.

Right?

And anyway, how does that relate to the efficiency of the healthcare system? Are you implying the healthcare system in france is draging the economy down with it?

SO alright. You (and fox news) hate France and their socialist distopia, is there any country in the world that has a system that is better than the current US system?

I love France, and have availed of their healthcare myself. Have apent a lot of time in France. But it can't continue. The French know this too.

Let me tell you, I'd you want to be rich, become a French pharmacist. You can't leave a French doctors office without a prescription for piles of creams and pills. The lines in the pharmacy are always long and slow. Plus there are serious restrictions on what days and hours they can be open too.

You think Walgreens would take nicely to being told they can't open on a Sunday? Or the Feast of the Assumption?

Amerika

InTheTrees wrote: »

QED

QED??? That sounds rather "incomplete and barely thought out" if you ask me.

InTheTrees

Amerika wrote: »

QED??? That sounds rather "incomplete and barely thought out" if you ask me.

*sigh*

Google it.

No, its more about you two making my point;

You havent presented any argument except anecdotes (France is collapsing and all the french hate the place? yeah right.). And seem completely unable to. Probably because Fox News doesnt go into it with any more depth than that either.

The right wingers have nothing except blanket knee-jerk negativity against Obama. "Blah blah blah taxes blah blah blah communism blah blah blah". On and on and on.

Which is why Obamacare will go ahead and be implemented.

Its also the reason for this thread.