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lillywhite2012

A good few years ago I joined the army in Dublin and upon joining I took an oath of allegance to the constitution and also not to be involved in any political party
Anyways off I was sent to Gormanston Camp for my recruit training and it really was a dream come true giving alot of my family were in the military
About three weeks into my training my platoon commander asked me in private whom i supported politically and my first response was that I was non political,which he completely dismissed. and further question me So I told him straight out I supported Fine Gael
Anyways it was kind of the death of my army life cos after saying that I was kind of bullied out of the army by not being finally approved at the end of my training
I tried to rejoin an number of times but they wouldnt hear of it. I also applied for my file under the Freedom of information and I noticed alot of lies were wrote in my recruit training diary. I tried every avenue possible to get back in but I could not get any joy
Just wondering Did anyone out their
suffer any similar expierance

Topper Harley

lillywhite2012 wrote: »

A good few years ago I joined the army in Dublin and upon joining I took an oath of allegance to the constitution and also not to be involved in any political party
Anyways off I was sent to Gormanston Camp for my recruit training and it really was a dream come true giving alot of my family were in the military
About three weeks into my training my platoon commander asked me in private whom i supported politically and my first response was that I was non political,which he completely dismissed. and further question me So I told him straight out I supported Fine Gael
Anyways it was kind of the death of my army life cos after saying that I was kind of bullied out of the army by not being finally approved at the end of my training
I tried to rejoin an number of times but they wouldnt hear of it. I also applied for my file under the Freedom of information and I noticed alot of lies were wrote in my recruit training diary. I tried every avenue possible to get back in but I could not get any joy
Just wondering Did anyone out their
suffer any similar expierance

I'm intrigued. What sort of lies were written about you?

I'd be very surprised if anyone actually cared about your political inclinations, let alone have it influence their evaluation of you unless they thought you were some kind of extremist nutcase.

Is it possible that the lies are in fact shortcomings that you have but won't admit to yourself? I'm not trying to have a go but some people aren't very self aware and don't take criticism too well.

goldie fish

You should be taking this to the Defence Forces Ombudsman.

Frosty McSnowballs

I'm fairly sure this didn't happen.

CorsendonkX

Senor Fancy Pants wrote: »

I'm fairly sure this didn't happen.

If it did he be an officer or Commander of the Defense forces by now!:pac:

lillywhite2012

oh it did happen back in 99 and 2 things that sicken me is that it was when i was asked why i did not support the gov at that time was that i felt the country completely over inflated plus some of these who ousted me have gone on to hold senior positions in the army

Frosty McSnowballs

lillywhite2012 wrote: »

oh it did happen back in 99 and 2 things that sicken me is that it was when i was asked why i did not support the gov at that time was that i felt the country completely over inflated plus some of these who ousted me have gone on to hold senior positions in the army

I know you are lying.

100% lying

lillywhite2012

**** u it did happen

AllthingsCP

Senor Fancy Pants wrote: »

I know you are lying.

100% lying

Could not agree more with you Senor Fancy,

This story seems flawed, Too many people involved to just make up lie's.

Basic training could have 8 Nco's 1 Sgt 1 Lt, Then the Captain the Commandant so on so forth in regards to a Recruits LA89 Discharge Papers.

Maybe you just did not prove capable enough to the officers over you. Basic training is difficult and you are always been watched and reports coming and going about you and your fellow recruits.

I'm 100 percent sure you where not booted over you political backing.

lillywhite2012

and i never knew their was a defence forces ombudsman and i will be updating u after i finish with them

Frosty McSnowballs

lillywhite2012 wrote: »

**** u it did happen

Lol no it didn't.

I trained in the ONLY Recruit Platoon that went through Gormanston in 1999.

Everyone who made it through were finally approved. Those who "ousted" you, the Pl Sgt is retired and the Pl Comd is now a Comdt.....so neither hold "senior positions in the army"

Come back with a better story next time

AllthingsCP

lillywhite2012 wrote: »

**** u it did happen

What year did you enlist? I had a family member trained in the same camp.

Frosty McSnowballs

AllthingsCP wrote: »

What year did you enlist? I had a family member trained in the same camp.

"1999"..... Just like me

AllthingsCP

Senor Fancy Pants wrote: »

Lol no it didn't.

I trained in the ONLY Recruit Platoon that went through Gormanston in 1999.

Everyone who made it through were finally approved. Those who "ousted" you, the Pl Sgt is retired and the Pl Comd is now a Comdt.....so neither hold "senior positions in the army"

Come back with a better story next time

Brother passed out 28 Aug 1998 along with 51st 52nd and 53rd so you must have been in the next intake?

lillywhite2012

I agree with what ur saying about training and yes I think as an 18 year old i was unsuitable. I was to rebelious to rules and yes maybe i deserved to be discharged. But my point is 3 other recruits were found to be unsuitable as well and all 3 got back in. And it is often said that 20 is the right age to join the army

Frosty McSnowballs

lillywhite2012 wrote: »

I agree with what ur saying about training and yes I think as an 18 year old i was unsuitable. I was to rebelious to rules and yes maybe i deserved to be discharged. But my point is 3 other recruits were found to be unsuitable as well and all 3 got back in. And it is often said that 20 is the right age to join the army

PM your service number and the names of the 3 that got back in.

Sure, PM me the name of your Sgt or Cpls

Otherwise, you are just taking the piss out of us.

AllthingsCP

lillywhite2012 wrote: »

I agree with what ur saying about training and yes I think as an 18 year old i was unsuitable. I was to rebelious to rules and yes maybe i deserved to be discharged. But my point is 3 other recruits were found to be unsuitable as well and all 3 got back in. And it is often said that 20 is the right age to join the army

I join in 2005 at 17 left end of 2010 try to get back in at the last recruitment passed ever thing but failed interview just to keep me off panel, that is the way it works in your case maybe they did not want to take the risk as a lot of time and money go's into training and you failed first time around so give someone else ago, Or go North and try the BA, If you want a Military Career take the step that is what my further holds unless the BA thinks i wont cut it

lillywhite2012

and no he is not a comdt,Hes retired and the sergent went off to oz

AllthingsCP

Senor Fancy Pants wrote: »

PM your service number and the names of the 3 that got back in.

Sure, PM me the name of your Sgt or Cpls

Otherwise, you are just taking the piss out of us.

Remember Service numbers tell a lot to those that understand them so do not try and pull one from the sky. Not saying you will

Frosty McSnowballs

lillywhite2012 wrote: »

and no he is not a comdt,Hes retired and the sergent went off to oz

A few Sgts from that time went to Oz.

Look man, it looks like you are taking the piss. If you could PM me any type of info to prove you served I may be of some assistance to you.

I have NEVER heard of ANYONE being questioned about politics in the DF. And not to be finally approved because of it is absurd.

None of this rings true....prove me wrong please.

AllthingsCP

Senor Fancy Pants wrote: »

A few Sgts from that time went to Oz.

Look man, it looks like you are taking the piss. If you could PM me any type of info to prove you served I may be of some assistance to you.

I have NEVER heard of ANYONE being questioned about politics in the DF. And not to be finally approved because of it is absurd.

None of this rings true....prove me wrong please.

Their is 100's of areas he could have failed on but political rejection is just silly, and really seems the OP is just using it as a reason as to his failure.

lillywhite2012

you pm your initials and the three corporals names and ur section commander and then ill know ur not taking the piss

Frosty McSnowballs

lillywhite2012 wrote: »

you pm your initials and the three corporals names and ur section commander and then ill know ur not taking the piss

LOL is that all you can come up with?

Ok, here's some non personal questions that you can answer.

How we're you paid in recruit training and what was the procedure?
Where did you go to be finally approved?
How many accommodation blocks are in the camp?
Where are the female lines?

I'm hoping for correct answers as I genuinely want to help you out here.

AllthingsCP

Senor Fancy Pants wrote: »

LOL is that all you can come up with?

Ok, here's some non personal questions that you can answer.

How we're you paid in recruit training and what was the procedure?
Where did you go to be finally approved?
How many accommodation blocks are in the camp?
Where are the female lines?

I'm hoping for correct answers as I genuinely want to help you out here.

Honestly give a bit to receive some helpful information, Otherwise trot on down to Shatter office and promise him vote it was all the rage few years back.

Midnight Oil

He has PMd me the name of his Pl Comdr, who did train a recruit Pl at that time

AllthingsCP

A quick google names PL Comdr for that platoon. Abit more information please

lillywhite2012

we were paid cash intitally and then by cheque 105 pound a week I , theirs 2 accom blocks a and b block. the female lines were on ground floor and we were accomadated in the block right in front of guard room i think a block

Frosty McSnowballs

Midnight Oil wrote: »

He has PMd me the name of his Pl Comdr, who did train a recruit Pl at that time

In Gormanston, in 1999?

Midnight Oil

AllthingsCP wrote: »

A quick google names PL Comdr for that platoon. Abit more information please

Okay so, you PM me the names of the Pl Comdrs from that time and we will see.

Given that you joined six years later, in fact I am pretty sure that this Pl Comdr was already practising law at that stage, how would you know?

BTW the Pl Comdr he claims trained him later ran for election and currently holds a position at local level within a political party that was in power at the time, not that I claim that his accusations are true

AllthingsCP

lillywhite2012 wrote: »

we were paid cash intitally and then by cheque 105 pound a week I , theirs 2 accom blocks a and b block. the female lines were on ground floor and we were accomadated in the block right in front of guard room i think a block

Just for taught, What is it you want to achieve in making a complain? Surly your over the age too enlist so what do you want to achieve, I hope you do not make false complains on why you where discharge tainting current serving soldier's career's. As in my opinion it was not a political discharge.

Frosty McSnowballs

lillywhite2012 wrote: »

we were paid cash intitally and then by cheque 105 pound a week I , theirs 2 accom blocks a and b block. the female lines were on ground floor and we were accomadated in the block right in front of guard room i think a block

See that wasn't so hard.

Now, you say you were questioned on your political views then you were not finally approved because of them. It's not like you were canvassing for Sinn Fein or anything.

Why on Earth would this stop you from passing out. It makes no sense at all.

Was there anything else that happened?

endacl

AllthingsCP wrote: »

Just for taught, What is it you want to achieve in making a complain? Surly your over the age too enlist so what do you want to achieve, I hope you do not make false complains on why you where discharge tainting a current serving soldier's career. As in my opinion it was not a political discharge.

Isn't a 'political discharge' what happens when a politician opens their gob?!?

AllthingsCP

endacl wrote: »

Isn't a 'political discharge' what happens when a politician opens their gob?!?

Sorry i mean discharged over his political view's.

Midnight Oil

AllthingsCP wrote: »

Sorry i mean discharged over his political view's.

That is not one of the grounds for discharge within the DF, there is a finite list of about 24 grounds to discharge someone

lillywhite2012

i am over the age to enlist but i was done and i know it

AllthingsCP

Midnight Oil wrote: »

That is not one of the grounds for discharge within the DF, there is a finite list of about 24 grounds to discharge someone

Thats is what i am try to tell the OP. The OP reckons he was discharged over his political view's and wants to make a complaint

lillywhite2012

read my origanal first posting please

Midnight Oil

lillywhite2012 wrote: »

i am over the age to enlist but i was done and i know it

But why wait 14 years to open your mouth? By now you must be at least 32 (if you were 18 at the time, I dont know how old you were)

AllthingsCP

Midnight Oil wrote: »

But why wait 14 years to open your mouth? By now you must be at least 32 (if you were 18 at the time, I dont know how old you were)

The Blue's are in Government now lol, Better hurry up before the sinners are back.

lillywhite2012

I did not wait 14 years I made complaints under the foi act a number of years back. and its a thing that has bothered me giving i have had family whom served since and even before the foundation of the state and i always felt shafted U called my bluff and i responded to ur pm but u never answered mine I dont believe u were in that platoon

Midnight Oil

You are right I was not in that platoon.

I am not questioning your honesty, just curious as to why you now want to bring it to light, I am not sure what it would achieve?

Don't feel bound to answer that as your motives are your own :cool:

goldie fish

lillywhite2012 wrote: »

and i never knew their was a defence forces ombudsman and i will be updating u after i finish with them

You must not have been paying attention during basic training so. It's one of the first lectures you attend.

lillywhite2012

Their was no ombudsman back then I never knew one existed but i imagine it was brought in after a guy produced a thesis for his college
course on bullying within the df and i can tell u that report made front page news

Morpheus

You need to click this link:

http://www.odf.ie/

Thats the website for the defence forces ombudsman

call their number once you've familiarised yourself with their website and role.

01 6633222

Its the best way for you to take this anywhere. posting up here will not really help as we cannot really comment on something that we weren't privvy to and in fairness, although you feel hard done by, there are always two sides to every story so you need to find out the defence forces take on your discharge.

All the best, I hope you get some form of closure on this issue.

lillywhite2012

Thanks lad I was looking at their webpage and It seems I cannot complain cos it was before 2005,But I will highlight whenever i can cos i know I was done and i know from talking to old sweats that the army at that time that the army hated fine gael and i can look anyone in the face and say the reason i was done was my political beliefs

AllthingsCP

lillywhite2012 wrote: »

Thanks lad I was looking at their webpage and It seems I cannot complain cos it was before 2005,But I will highlight whenever i can cos i know I was done and i know from talking to old sweats that the army at that time that the army hated fine gael and i can look anyone in the face and say the reason i was done was my political beliefs

Ok. What did it say for reason of discharge.

Hedgemeister

In all my years in the Army I never heard as much as a whisper about politics, let alone asked for my political views.
Soldiers despise politicians,all of them, regardless of Party or be they be Independent, and I suspect, the feeling is (or was) mutual.

During my 28 yrs service we had many Governments, and many Min of Def...all of them gob****es, of every Party , that didn't know their arse from their elbow, a Tank from an APC, a Mortar from a .5 HMG, nor did any one of them gaie a rat's ass about the soldiers welfare, pay, food, (we were fed horsemeat before it became fashionable) equipment, or living conditions, but then again, maybe they were only reflecting the feelings of the general population, which, in my experience, was fairly similar.
The best Minister was Paddy Donegan (FG) and the worst was from the PDs. Now there was a particular fool amongst fools, who demanded that no soldier should be visible in Athlone as he passed through the Town from his home in the wild west to Dail Eireann. Maybe this is why they built the bypass in case his eyes be offended by the uniform?
Another bugbear of his lordship was that the Military Police signs on our MP Vehicles should be in Irish; because during the Papal visit to Knock he got 'upset' (allegedly) to see these signs in the language of the auld enemy, enough to issue an Edict from on high.. to change the offending signs, fortwith.
Paddy Donegan was a bit different. Paddy understood the soldier, and was man enough to take note of the ****-end of the stick the soldier was getting from successive Governments & we got some new equipt during his term. Not great stuff, but it was a start. Mind you, some of the 'stuff' was a disaster, ie, the Sanglas motorcycles, the infamous 'banana' combat boots and (the one size fits all) Hungarian steel helmets (flowerpots) but our Def Budget increased after that, but not by a whole lot.

Anyway, getting back to the OP. I don't believe for a second that somebody got hounded out of the Army in that fashion, for that reason. People were Not Finally Approved (NFA) for a myriad of reasons...we had one chap who couldn't hold the right step for ten paces, but could hold the wrong one all day. (NFA) Another guy (ex-FCA) thought he knew more than the Instructor . He didn't, and was also NFA.

lillywhite2012

Are u saying to me that during the 60s 70s and 80s that Dr fitzgerald and Alan dukes were not saying that this country did not need an army. Whilst Charlie Haughey was not saying that every country needed an Army TRUE OR FALSE

Hedgemeister

If you are asking me what politicians said or thought back then, well, I've no recollection of them saying anything of the sort.
Charley was too busy pandering to the 'other army' and feathering his own nest while at the same time boasting about being "an officer in the Defence Forces." (The little crook was in the FCA at some stage so he would be an expert at all things military)
It might suit some folks to attempt to ''lable" the Army as favouring one political party over another but there's no truth or evidence to support that theory.

lillywhite2012

yeah ur right their lad No evidence THE ARMY WERE ALWAYS GOOD AT THAT , and as for Charlie, Sure it was not long ago that all these lads who could reach deep into their pockets were saying He had done great things for the country and if U know something u should keep ur mouth shut about it, Well look whats happened since and when a young lad speaks his mind and could see the country was ****ed he was done , AND he never claimed to be military It was his father who was an army officer who died young and Charlie thus availed of a charitable education in the brothers and like all the other liberal fianna fail crowd abused it to leave this country ****ed

Midnight Oil

You appear to bear quite a few grudges which unfortunately has left you rather bitter.

To be honest, you spent a few weeks in the DF 14 years ago and have made some spurious claims against what you think perceive to be a conspiracy against you.

While someone may have casually asked you about your political beliefs I am pretty sure it was contextually relevant at the time. I can categorically tell you that you were not discharged as a result of this belief!

My best advice to you is to just put your experience behind you and move on.