Pre Game handshakes?

mooonpie

feargale wrote: »

Couldn't agree more. You wouldn't expect it from pre-teens. I'm thinking of opening a thread called " Baboon of the week" to deal with it. You don't see it in rugby. Why? Because rugby is a man's game, where men take hard knocks, but don't dish out gratuitous ones. Yes, sometimes tempers flare - not to condone it, but that will happen in a physical contact game. But this pre-game yob " I'm here" intimidation reflects no credit on the Irish character. If it were happening in English soccer or among " the other side " in Northern Ireland we would never hear the end of it. Please don't tell them it happens here. It's embarrassing enough as it is.

Just on the bolded point, you don't see it in rugby because when a sub comes on in rugby he's going to join the rest of his team on their side of the offside line.

In GAA when a sub comes on they're going to their patch of the pitch where they're going to try best the single opposition player also in that patch of the pitch ... or else they're the goal keeper

feargale

Realt Dearg Sec wrote: »

True enough, but have you ever met anyone at a gaa game who would regard jostling as barbaric?

Boorish is the word I used.

Realt Dearg Sec wrote: »

A jostle at the start of the game is nothing more than a statement of intent

intending what?

Realt Dearg Sec wrote: »

There's nothing malicious, harmful or dirty in it at all

So if I jostle you on the street you will respond with a friendly "howya" ?

Realt Dearg Sec wrote: »

and I would suspect anyone who thinks otherwise is simply not really a fan,

That's me, I think otherwise, travelled to see Kerry hurl Mayo, 100 miles hoping to see another weak county go where they hadn't gone before, went to Croke Park once to see Louth hurlers, but I'm not really a fan, huh?

Realt Dearg Sec wrote: »

since such a huge misunderstanding

I think you mean dissent from your view

Realt Dearg Sec wrote: »

]is otherwise inexplicable. Hence, no need to take his view seriously

If an Irish guy attended one bull-fight in Spain and came home saying it was barbaric he wouldn't be dismissed thus. Likewise, if ethical saw just one GAA game in his life, as a paying customer he has a perfectly valid view. It's a game, not a religion.

feargale

antoobrien wrote: »

ethical behaviour, boorish, wtf are you on? It's not chess it's a contact sport![\quote]
You are missing something again. ethical is the name of a previous poster. You should demand your money back for those speed-reading lessons.

antoobrien wrote: »

Considering neither of them have jobs that would include the spreading of muck, calling either of them a "muckdspreader" is the height of ignorance. [\quote]
Talk to ethical about that. They were his words.

antoobrien wrote: »

I think you'll find that the physical contact of a "howya" shoulder is not mutually exclusive with "sporting behaviour" in that those that are sporting do not go out to intentionally harm their competitors. [\quote]
As the fundamentalist said in defence of Khomeini, he didn'e intend to kill Rushdie, just to frighten him.

antoobrien wrote: »

I can't remember the exact Jack Yeats quote but it goes something like:
Rugby is a game for ruffians, played by gentlemen.
Soccer is a game for gentlemen, played by ruffians.
Gaelic is a game for ruffians played by ruffians.
Hurling is a game for gentlemen, played by gentlemen.} [\quote]
Good night.

antoobrien wrote: »

Apparently so did Jack Lynch and he'd have gotten away with far worse than anything we see on the pitch today.

And off the pitch too, no doubt. Those were the days!

feargale

mooonpie wrote: »

Just on the bolded point, you don't see it in rugby because when a sub comes on in rugby he's going to join the rest of his team on their side of the offside line.
In GAA when a sub comes on they're going to their patch of the pitch where they're going to try best the single opposition player also in that patch of the pitch ... or else they're the goal keeper

Tell me another sport where you see that immature "getting to know you " nonsense.

Big Pussy Bonpensiero

Pointless exercise, you're not giving respect when you're forced to shake hands. All it does if provide players to lay down a marker, for example what Suarez did last year.

People may argue that flash points are extremely rare, but if a pointless exercise can cause a flashpoint then it's should be done away with tbh.

There was lots of articles written last questioning the importance of the handshake, most of which were arguing against the routine. Can't be bothered to google them but they shouldn't be too hard to find.

antoobrien

feargale wrote: »

Tell me another sport where you see that immature "getting to know you " nonsense.

See it plenty in local rugby.

Realt Dearg Sec

feargale wrote: »

Boorish is the word I used.

intending what? So if I jostle you on the street you will respond with a friendly "howya" ?

That's me, I think otherwise, travelled to see Kerry hurl Mayo, 100 miles hoping to see another weak county go where they hadn't gone before, went to Croke Park once to see Louth hurlers, but I'm not really a fan, huh?

I think you mean dissent from your view

If an Irish guy attended one bull-fight in Spain and came home saying it was barbaric he wouldn't be dismissed thus. Likewise, if ethical saw just one GAA game in his life, as a paying customer he has a perfectly valid view. It's a game, not a religion.

First of all, boorish was the word you used, but I wasn't talking about you. Barbaric is the word "ethical" used, and that was who I was talking about.

Is "what would be appropriate to do to a complete stranger on the street" going to be your criteria for what should be acceptable in a sport? Applying your logic, a rugby tackle is "boorish" since it would be inappropriate to do it to someone in the street. Actually, for that matter, going up to a complete stranger in the street and shaking their hand for no reason is pretty inappropriate. Quite obviously, if you are playing a sport, you have made an implicit agreement to be a part of what goes on. If you can't take a jostle, then you really aren't going to like what comes later on in the game. Anyone playing the game knows this, so to say it isn't appropriate because you wouldn't do it to someone in the street is patent nonsense.

As for asking "intending what?"...seriously? Do I have to actually spell out that you would be giving an indication of your intention to play hard and with full intensity, that the opposite man can expect the game to be full throttle? Because if I have to explain that, then really there is no point talking at all.

Regarding your travels, good on you, keep it up. Please tell me that at the start of these matches you tell people around you that the lads jostling each other are being "boorish". I would love to see the reaction.

Regarding your last point, if an Irish guy went to one bull fight and called it barbaric without showing any understanding of the traditions underpinning it, its cultural significance in Spain, its artistic/aesthetic elements, then yes, he should be dismissed because he has demonstrated no real comprehension of it. It is just a game, and in that regard every opinion is valid, but I wouldn't argue that every opinion is equally valid. Just because I have an opinion on the banking collapse doesn't mean my opinion is worth the same as that of a university economist. In any case, I would hardly compare the killing of an animal with a shoulder before the whistle, would you?

mooonpie

feargale wrote: »

Tell me another sport where you see that immature "getting to know you " nonsense.

The only other sport I can think of that pairs up opposition players and puts them all over the pitch before the game even starts is aussie rules, and I wouldn't be shocked to hear the same stuff happens in that.

Every other team contact sport I can think of has some sort of offside line that players have to stay the correct side of before the game starts (soccer, rugby, american football, ice hockey) and for the more physical of those (rugby and american football) that offside line is between the 2 teams for the entire game. You simply don't get the opportunity to be stood beside your marker in one corner while everyone's attention is at the other end of the pitch.

And if we're talking about "boorish" behaviour off the ball, I'll comfortably say all the sports I've mentioned above have plenty examples of boorish behaviour. What nonsense happens in box before a corner is taken in soccer? How often do you see a player at the base of a ruck in rugby being held down just a little bit longer than necessary after play has moved on? How often do you see linemen in NFL do similar? And most people expect a fight in an ice hockey game.

And ya can add to that all the smack talk and the likes of standing on a lad's toes that goes on too. It's a part of all contact sports - if I can make you play worse, I've a better chance of being better than you and if I'm better than you, my team has a better chance of winning.

Having said that, I have no issue with the organised pre-game handshake. I think it's unnecessary but ultimately it's harmless. I'll still shake my opponents hand when we get to our patch of the field and wish him luck ... then I'll put my glove back on and for the next 60 minutes I'll try to outplay him and wreck his head any way I can ... until the final whistle goes and then I'll shake his hand again and either thank him for the game or congratulate him.

feargale

mooonpie wrote: »

The only other sport I can think of that pairs up opposition players and puts them all over the pitch before the game even starts is aussie rules, and I wouldn't be shocked to hear the same stuff happens in that. [\quote] Our boys tried it against them a few years ago and got their comeuppance. Did you ever see a big, growling dog running with its tail between its legs?

mooonpie wrote: »

And if we're talking about "boorish" behaviour off the ball, What nonsense happens in box before a corner is taken in soccer?

No point in looking at the ills of soccer while Blatter is around

mooonpie wrote: »

How often do you see a player at the base of a ruck in rugby being held down just a little bit longer than necessary after play has moved on? How often do you see linemen in NFL do similar? And most people expect a fight in an ice hockey game.

Things happen in the heat of the fray, and referees deal with them.

mooonpie wrote: »

Having said that, I have no issue with the organised pre-game handshake.

Followed by a hurley jab in the ribs before the ball is thrown in? Ugh. No, i'm against compulsory handshakes, curtsies or arrse embraces. If people want to shake hands, ok, but don't add hypocrisy to the mix.

feargale

Quote anto "calling Joey Boland, who got 620 points for his LC, or John Lee - a doctor "
anto seems to imply that these two stars engage in what I complain of. I don't know if they do, but anto is upholding a good Irish tradition which says if pillars of the community do it it's ok, e.g. tax evasion for decades.

Realt Dearg Sec wrote: »

I would hardly compare the killing of an animal with a shoulder before the whistle, would you?

I never did so. I've expressed no opinion on the merits of bull-fighting. Keep it simple please.

Realt Dearg Sec wrote: »

Regarding your travels, good on you, keep it up. Please tell me that at the start of these matches you tell people around you that the lads jostling each other are being "boorish". I would love to see the reaction.

I have a better idea. Next time you're at a match, if you see a guy with a hand-held loudspeaker shouting "baboon" during every other substitution, come over and say hello/shake hands, but ffs don't jostle me, at least not before the ball is thrown in.

Now i've made all my points and I'm outa here. I feel like a missionary in a very remote place, sitting in a boiling pot and trying to convert the cooks.

Realt Dearg Sec

feargale wrote: »

Now i've made all my points and I'm outa here. I feel like a missionary in a very remote place, sitting in a boiling pot and trying to convert the cooks.

Yes and you've acted with all the sense of moral and intellectual superiority that this comparison implies.

Regarding bull-fighting: you were the one who brought it up, so obviously you regard it as a valid comparison. Telling me to keep it simple, as though I were the one who raised this utter red-herring about bull-fighting and not you, is ridiculous.

Why do you shout baboon over a loud speaker during substitutions? Sounds more "boorish" than any of what you've been whining about on here to be honest.

antoobrien

feargale wrote: »

anto seems to imply that these two stars engage in what I complain of.

Yes both lads do it when it is required of them, and no they are not boorish louts, but actually two very approachable guys - like many of the people that you want to tar with slurs like the utter bs that you are coming out with.

feargale wrote: »

I don't know if they do, but anto is upholding a good Irish tradition which says if pillars of the community do it it's ok

Bulls**t and other less savoury words & concepts.

I objected to calling people muckspreaders for doing something that is, not only perfectly acceptable in the game, but WITHIN THE RULES OF THE GAME.


If one doesn't like that then one should take one's business to sports where there is no physical contact.

premierstone

feargale wrote: »

Now i've made all my points and I'm outa here.

We can but be gratefull for small mercies