Sexism on television

Panthro

I wonder is this worthy of it's own thread.

Sexism on telly, should we have a discussion thread about what shows portray men in a negative light? From shows to adverts there are plenty of examples.
I'll share two off the top of my head:
I think "Don't tell the Bride" is one of the most sexist tv shows going at the moment. Every single episode the Groom is made out to be "one of the lads" thicko who goes drinking at every opportunity, while the future bride panics over what the groom has planned. Then when you think he's about to eff it all up monumentally, he some how turns it around. Just for the sake of it RTE, try showing us an episode where the guy actually gives a fiddlers about the Big Day. (Of course, that show probably wouldn't pull in the ratings)
I think it's one of the most fabricated BS shows going at the minute.

The second example is "Take me Out". Now, I know it's a game show and supposed to be a bit of a laugh and light entertainment, but Jesus, some of the absolute tripe the lads are subjected to is beyond ridiculous. Again, for once, lets change up the format a bit, have 30 lads verbally tear strips off one girl, commenting on every thing from her clothes choice to her physical features and see what the reaction is. You can bet your bottom dollar there would be a public outcry.

The lads seem to set themselves up for what can only be described as a monumental pish taking on National television, I can't understand why anyone would allow themselves to go through that. Are the oul 15 mins of fame really worth it?

PingO_O

I know what you mean, whoever narrates that show has a really condescending tone of voice!

Like when they cut to see what the groom to be is up to and she says something like " meanwhile Barry has other things on his mind" she may as well be saying "lets see what the useless man man is up to, probably nothing".

I find the UK take me out to be alright though, I've seen the Irish one and its just bloody cringey.

I think men are very poorly portrayed in advertisements. From being useless, inept housekeepers for whom the simplest of tasks, like operating a mop or washing machine, is a huge challenge they need instruction in from a woman, to their portrayal as the 'fun, but slightly reckless and irresponsible parent' who tells them to keep secrets from their mother.

As for the Lynx ads...

Panthro

Panthro wrote: »

The second example is "Take me Out". Now, I know it's a game show and supposed to be a bit of a laugh and light entertainment, but Jesus, some of the absolute tripe the lads are subjected to is beyond ridiculous. Again, for once, lets change up the format a bit, have 30 lads verbally tear strips off one girl, commenting on every thing from her clothes choice to her physical features and see what the reaction is. You can bet your bottom dollar there would be a public outcry.

I think it was Paddy McGuinness actually said that exact same thing, people wouldn't stand for it. Despite people arguing that women are judged more etc. etc., people wouldn't go for something like that.

Probably my pet hate is crime shows. Guys are manipulative, controlling and completely in control of what they're doing, women generally are either righting a wrong or under someone's thumb. There'll be a rare case when they'll have a woman being portrayed as a supreme manipulator but it's not often.
Actually another point on that is similar to real-life portrayal of things. Have a couple who regularly beat the crap out of each other and it's the guy who's the bad one. Self-defence is a lot more readily accepted when it's a woman who claims it.

MaxWig

Candie wrote: »

I think men are very poorly portrayed in advertisements. From being useless, inept housekeepers for whom the simplest of tasks, like operating a mop or washing machine, is a huge challenge they need instruction in from a woman, to their portrayal as the 'fun, but slightly reckless and irresponsible parent' who tells them to keep secrets from their mother.

As for the Lynx ads...

I hear you, but I think they're slightly more offensive to women.

While the men are portrayed like egits, its the women who continue to clean because us men 'just aren't up to it'.

It reminds me of getting a kid to do an errand for you, and you say 'I'll time you, to see how fast you are'.

The implication is that women are so naturally adept at cleaning houses, that they should just be left to it

um7y1h83ge06nx

Yeah, two shows that are quite sexist alright.

Don't Tell the Bride really portrays men as secondary to the whole proceedings. The portrayal being that if they weren't put on the spot in this programme to do things all they would do for the wedding is have a stag and turn up on the day.

It's not just Don't Tell the Bride, any young guy brought up watching TV is told that however mental a woman goes about a wedding it's perfectly acceptable and sure **** it, who needs savings?

shopaholic01

I've never watched 'Don't Tell The Bride' so can't comment. I have seen 'Ask Me Out' a couple of times. When I do see it I criticise the female contestants though!

The make-up, hair and false tan - I just want to get a scrubbing brush at them.

Their attitude and how they portray themselves really makes me cringe though. It's a bitch-fest, in fact it's so extreme I have to wonder how scripted the whole thing is. I think it also shows 'herd mentality' at it's finest. We're all attracted to different looks, styles, personalities etc., but it seems that a lot of the time none of the contestants want to admit to it. In saying that, the guys must realise what they are signing up for.

As for ads, yes, a lot of them are sexist. Women = competent and mad for house work/men = incompetent or ruled by their penis. It's just a sign of lazy advertising though, so I don't find it offensive.

Standman

It's not necessarily the sexist tv itself that bothers me the most -there is all kinds of mindless drivel on tv that I don't need to watch - it's the double standard and the people thinking that it's all ok as long as the man is on the receiving end.

nicowa

Mavis Glamorous Designer wrote: »

Yeah, two shows that are quite sexist alright.

Don't Tell the Bride really portrays men as secondary to the whole proceedings. The portrayal being that if they weren't put on the spot in this programme to do things all they would do for the wedding is have a stag and turn up on the day.

From what I've seen of the Irish one, that seems to be true. From the one episode I remember of the British one the groom was well into it, and created a wonderful themed wedding for about 10,000 for a largish group of people. Though he got the dress really wrong and the bride was very upset. She ended up paying for the dress he choose and then borrowing/renting a different one from the same shop....

As for the portrayal of scheming women and men, it's easier to still "like" the scheming man, but for some reason I can't "like" the scheming woman. Though it can depend on the actor. Watching the Following at the moment and while I don't "like" the nanny I do like watching her. She's interesting. But (and I don't really watch soaps) any of the schemers on the likes of Eastenders turn my stomach - but that could also be the acting...

Zulu

During the olympics the P&G "Proud sponsors of mums" always left me thinking that british dad's must be terrible. Either that or all families are single families over there. Heathens.

source

The double standards in advertising really annoys me.

Take for example the minstrels ad with two women at a male strip show, or any of the diet coke ads. These show men as nothing more than sex objects, but apparently it's okay for women to stare at a topless man.

Then you have the likes of the hunky dorys ad or club orange ad with scantily clad women, and there's outcry, the ads are deemed sexist and pulled.

RDM_83 again

source wrote: »

The double standards in advertising really annoys me.

Take for example the minstrels ad with two women at a male strip show, or any of the diet coke ads. These show men as nothing more than sex objects, but apparently it's okay for women to stare at a topless man.

Then you have the likes of the hunky dorys ad or club orange ad with scantily clad women, and there's outcry, the ads are deemed sexist and pulled.

I agree with your point but I thought a lot of the stink about the hunky dorys ad was about the objectification of woman in sports (still shouldn't have been pulled though)

speedboatchase

One moments spring to mind from reality TV. Don't baulk, those types of shows are teaching people how to act, dress, speak etc.

Made in Chelsea: I don't watch it but remember about a guy called Spencer was accused of cheating by her girlfriends on a night out. One of them, Millie, absolutely wallops him with a slap out of nowhere. A few headlines on it:

Let's watch Millie Mackintosh slap Spencer Matthews again and again in this Made in Chelsea preview

Slapintosh!

Top Daily Mail comments on their article on it:

'She hit the perfectly dressed Matthews so hard it knocked his gelled back hair out of place'-LOVE IT!
- mk, brighton, United Kingdom, 25/12/2012 4:56

Wheather he cheated or not....nobody deserves a slap more than that arrogant so and so!
- Tracy, Chelsea, 25/12/2012 13:04

it was amazing, millie made my christmas wish come true!
- Cat, London, United Kingdom, 25/12/2012 4:23

this is the best thing to ever happen. her whole body weight went behind that smack too. love it.
- Hannah, London, 26/12/2012 17:39

Panthro

Panthro wrote: »

Sexism on telly, should we have a discussion thread about what shows portray men in a negative light? From shows to adverts there are plenty of examples.

I would say that almost all TV is sexist. We're all living in a sexist culture, and TV is going to reflect our culture. Everything from how the men in Desperate Housewives are treated like pawns, to more extreme examples of cleaning products suggesting that every household needs a woman to clean it, contain and propagate sexist ideas which have often totally innocently slipped into the broadcast. I think it's a great idea for a thread to point out examples of this kind of discrimination, because IMO sexism's strength is in how it is not always being recognised.

Again, for once, lets change up the format a bit, have 30 lads verbally tear strips off one girl, commenting on every thing from her clothes choice to her physical features and see what the reaction is. You can bet your bottom dollar there would be a public outcry.

I have to say, while I have said that I think most TV contains some sexism, I don't really see the huge problem with Take Me Out. The man puts himself out there to a room of women, who then answer questions they might be asked about him. Once the women who aren't interested are eliminated, it's then the man's turn to critique and choose from the women. So it goes both ways. While I can imagine it's more uncomfortable for the guy than for the women, he does choose to put himself in that position and I don't think it's really a sexist issue. As for verbally tearing strips off women causing a public outcry, you must never have seen America's Next Top Model! Women are criticised right down to the pixel on that show. I think it's probably more helpful to examine sexism against men in media as a single issue rather than wrapping it up with the idea that women aren't experiencing similar discrimination.

Keith300

true-or-false wrote: »

I would say that almost all TV is sexist. We're all living in a sexist culture, and TV is going to reflect our culture. Everything from how the men in Desperate Housewives are treated like pawns, to more extreme examples of cleaning products suggesting that every household needs a woman to clean it, contain and propagate sexist ideas which have often totally innocently slipped into the broadcast. I think it's a great idea for a thread to point out examples of this kind of discrimination, because IMO sexism's strength is in how it is not always being recognised.


I have to say, while I have said that I think most TV contains some sexism, I don't really see the huge problem with Take Me Out. The man puts himself out there to a room of women, who then answer questions they might be asked about him. Once the women who aren't interested are eliminated, it's then the man's turn to critique and choose from the women. So it goes both ways. While I can imagine it's more uncomfortable for the guy than for the women, he does choose to put himself in that position and I don't think it's really a sexist issue. As for verbally tearing strips off women causing a public outcry, you must never have seen America's Next Top Model! Women are criticised right down to the pixel on that show. I think it's probably more helpful to examine sexism against men in media as a single issue rather than wrapping it up with the idea that women aren't experiencing similar discrimination.

Women criticising women's appearance is acceptable.

Women criticising men's appearance is acceptable.

Men criticising women's appearance is GASP!

I wonder if one of the men on take me out broke down in tears as the women criticisized his appearance what the reaction would be.

Keith300

Keith300 wrote: »

Women criticising women's appearance is acceptable.

Women criticising men's appearance is acceptable.

Men criticising women's appearance is GASP!

I wonder if one of the men on take me out broke down in tears as the women criticisized his appearance what the reaction would be.

And I wonder if one of the women on take me out broke down in tears as the man rejected them what the reaction would be. I don't see the sexism.

There's definitely an argument for Take Me Out being a cruel show, but I don't see where you're getting the above claims from. Not only do I think they're untrue, but they're also not at all constructive. If you want to talk about sexism against men, it's hardly helpful to focus the conversation on "women have it easy". Men and women have their appearance criticised all the time, it's hardly a novel concept.

Anyway, I came on here to say 'According to Jim' was on this morning. I don't think either gender is represented well on that show. Jim and his brother in law (the only two men on the show), bumble their way through life trying to drink as much beer and eat as much food as possible. While Jim interacts with his kids and loves them, he's never seen to be trusted to care for them, he's never given any real responsibilities, and when he does get a simple task to do, he messes up and inevitably ends up having to grovel to his wife to forgive him/fix it for him. He's the main breadwinner, but once he gets home he's treated like an over-sized child. He fits into about a billion unhealthy male stereotypes and he's constantly belittled for being unable to break out of them.

Zulu

true-or-false wrote: »

Men and women have their appearance criticised all the time, it's hardly a novel concept.

Indeed, it is well accepted/established that when women are objectified it is "sexism". Yet, weirdly, your position seems to be that the same can't be true for men (as pointed out by Keith): it's simply "untrue". Why is that?

OnTheCouch

Keith300 wrote: »

I wonder if one of the men on take me out broke down in tears as the women criticisized his appearance what the reaction would be.

Unfortunately I feel the general reaction in the populist media would be one where he is told to 'man up' or something equally stupid. Even though there would be a substantial minority who would have sympathy for him.

You can argue that Take Me Out works both ways all right, but the man is generally criticised at the start, often quite harshly and he is seen as a figure of fun. Whereas a successful man who succeeds in all the rounds does get to choose a woman at the end over others, the rejected woman usually gets some sort of meek apology and a general excuse of 'Well I would have chosen you but...the other girl is so stunning etc etc.' Shrug of the shoulders and so on. I don't think it's quite the same as the man who gets publicly mocked and laughed at because he isn't tall enough or wears dodgy clothes.

Keith300

true-or-false wrote: »

And I wonder if one of the women on take me out broke down in tears as the man rejected them what the reaction would be. I don't see the sexism.

There's definitely an argument for Take Me Out being a cruel show, but I don't see where you're getting the above claims from. Not only do I think they're untrue, but they're also not at all constructive. If you want to talk about sexism against men, it's hardly helpful to focus the conversation on "women have it easy". Men and women have their appearance criticised all the time, it's hardly a novel concept.

Anyway, I came on here to say 'According to Jim' was on this morning. I don't think either gender is represented well on that show. Jim and his brother in law (the only two men on the show), bumble their way through life trying to drink as much beer and eat as much food as possible. While Jim interacts with his kids and loves them, he's never seen to be trusted to care for them, he's never given any real responsibilities, and when he does get a simple task to do, he messes up and inevitably ends up having to grovel to his wife to forgive him/fix it for him. He's the main breadwinner, but once he gets home he's treated like an over-sized child. He fits into about a billion unhealthy male stereotypes and he's constantly belittled for being unable to break out of them.

You don't see the sexism?

It is acceptable to harshly criticise a man's looks yet not acceptable to harshly criticise a woman's looks. That's the sexism.

Can you imagine the roles were reversed and a guy said that a woman was too fat or skinny or lanky or strange looking for example. Then can you imagine it being a light hearted atmosphere after he said that where people chuckled at the slagging.

I certainly can't realistically imagine that.

stoneill

source wrote: »

The double standards in advertising really annoys me.

Take for example the minstrels ad with two women at a male strip show, or any of the diet coke ads. These show men as nothing more than sex objects, but apparently it's okay for women to stare at a topless man.

Then you have the likes of the hunky dorys ad or club orange ad with scantily clad women, and there's outcry, the ads are deemed sexist and pulled.

Exactly - I was going to use the minstrels ad as a prime example of blatant sexism.

Galwayguy35

Various TV series and films I have watch over the years:

Woman says or does something a man doesn't like and he hits her, he rightly gets charged with assault.

Man says or does something a woman doesn't like, she hits him and nothing happens or everyone feels he "deserved it".

Galwayguy35

The Damien/Suzanne story in Fair City being a prime example, if it was him battering her and there was no charges brought against him there would be uproar.

GalwayGuy2

Man says or does something a woman doesn't like, she hits him and nothing happens or everyone feels he "deserved it".

Yes, it's especially annoying when you see a woman kicking a man in the testicles because "he deserved it." I only really realized how much of a big deal that was after reading about testicular torsion. :eek:

tempnam

true-or-false wrote: »

And I wonder if one of the women on take me out broke down in tears as the man rejected them what the reaction would be. I don't see the sexism.

There's definitely an argument for Take Me Out being a cruel show, but I don't see where you're getting the above claims from. Not only do I think they're untrue, but they're also not at all constructive. If you want to talk about sexism against men, it's hardly helpful to focus the conversation on "women have it easy". Men and women have their appearance criticised all the time, it's hardly a novel concept.

Anyway, I came on here to say 'According to Jim' was on this morning. I don't think either gender is represented well on that show. Jim and his brother in law (the only two men on the show), bumble their way through life trying to drink as much beer and eat as much food as possible. While Jim interacts with his kids and loves them, he's never seen to be trusted to care for them, he's never given any real responsibilities, and when he does get a simple task to do, he messes up and inevitably ends up having to grovel to his wife to forgive him/fix it for him. He's the main breadwinner, but once he gets home he's treated like an over-sized child. He fits into about a billion unhealthy male stereotypes and he's constantly belittled for being unable to break out of them.

Not just 'According To Jim'.... Also 'Everybody Loves Raymond' & 'King Of Queens' are more or less the same format.

Doctor DooM

To be fair, I find the most sexist TV is also the lowest common denominator TV, in general, whether it's aimed at men or women. I hate it from either side. It's lazy and stupid.

I do have to say I had a little titter at someone reading a brain dead woman's magazine and laughing at the men in the "aint fellas daft" section. Least they don't buy the same magazine with different names every week that tells them how independant they are on one page when the next has 5 top tips on how to keep your man.

tsiehta

Keith300 wrote: »

Women criticising women's appearance is acceptable.

Women criticising men's appearance is acceptable.

Men criticising women's appearance is GASP!

I wonder if one of the men on take me out broke down in tears as the women criticisized his appearance what the reaction would be.

There have been several male judges on America's Next Top Model.

Encrustment

Stop watching shyte on TV. Problem solved.

Panthro

Few off topic posts have been deleted folks, lets all try sticking to the thread title, please and thank you.

Gandhi

I saw something very subtle on TV a few hours ago.

I was in the gym at lunchtime, where they have the TV on with the sound off, and one of those Jerry Springer-type shows was on. I think it was Maury Povich.

At the start of the show they were showing a man and woman (separately) backstage who were going to have their dispute on stage, and were interviewing. At first, I thought the man was being interviewed from inside a prison cell, and then I realized that the backdrop was a black trellis against a blue wall.

The woman was sitting in front of part of it with some vertical, horizontal, and diagonal beams that actually looked like a decorative trellis. The man was sitting in front of part of it that only had horizontal beams, and the more I looked at it the more I thought it was meant to look like prison bars. The thickness and spacing were bang-on, and there was a cluster that were out of sequence and looked like a prison cell door.

They also had all these incidental shots of the man standing there with folded arms and an angry look on his face, while the incidental shots of the woman were of her sitting in a chair with a forlorn woe-is-me expression.

I couldn't hear what they were actually saying, but it was interesting how they were using camera angles to frame the man as the villain before they even got on stage. Obviously, they were also being sexist to the woman by portraying her as a helpless little victim.

Sulla Felix

Candie wrote: »

to their portrayal as the 'fun, but slightly reckless and irresponsible parent' who tells them to keep secrets from their mother.

If that's the ad I'm thinking of, the very last "scene" has the tables turned with the mother doing the very same thing, so, 50/50 on that I reckon.