Standard of life as an Atheist

bogwalrus

As an atheist do you live a good, happy and full life? Is god punishing you silently in some way or has he interfered with your life plan in some way to punish you because you are not a believer?

If you could record the lives of a group of believers beside a group of non believers which group would look on paper to have had fuller happier lives? Or is such an experiment possible. Would the results make sense?

I imagine believers would feel that non-believers should have less happier lives since god is not present in their lives but do they also believe that god is helping them on a daily basis to lets say, pass that driving test, get that new job etc?


If they do believe god is looking out for them then surely on paper if you put believers beside non believers then one side will have a better life than the other no?

So maybe people (atheist & christian) could post what they view their standard of life is on a scale 1-10? People can then elaborate if they want.

I'll go first sure.

Solid 8 for me.

Happy out would not change a thing=)

Sarky

Let's see... Dream job, guilt-free sex with rather adventurous ladies, rapidly dwindling stain of Catholic shame and self loathing, nice accommodation, trustworthy friends, more amazing parties than I care to count, fame in the Irish games convention writing circuit (Hey, it's a big deal! Most non-Irish cons don't have near the standards of formatting and legibility we have over here!)... Oh, and one time I got Thelma 'Live At 3' Mansfield's autograph.

My life is f*cking awesome since I gave up on that religion crap. Keeps on improving as I discard the last poisonous vestiges. OK, fine, I'm in a bit of a dry spell for the second item right now, but meh, you can't have everything and I'm not greedy...

I fondly remember a Catholic poster (Donatello, I think?) ask us something similar ages ago. He got quite annoyed that we generally had fun lives with no gaping Jesus-shaped hole in our hearts and tried to tell us that no, we were actually miserable and unfulfilled and we just didn't realise it. Poor guy. He seemed awfully bitter. :pac:

kylith

I have a great life. Granted I'm looking for a job right now, but other than that I have a loving partner, a nice house, and I'm happy and fulfilled. Plus I get to sleep in on Sundays.

Basically my life is like this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7qSirgWPKMg

Cienciano

I'm an athiest and my wife isn't. Similar to kylith, sleeping in on a sunday morning is great. She gets up at 9am and takes the kids to church, I stay in bed.

lazygal

We have a great life. We've gotten over the guilt about anything and everything, and I'm really, really happy we're raising our children without all the stuff and nonsense we were fed. Sundays are open season for family time and we don't have to organise any christenings and do the whole 'godparent selection' silliness. We also didn't make our wedding guests sit through a boring mass when we got married, for which we got profuse thanks. We just get on with things and appreciate what we have, without needing to worry about imaginary sky people watching what we're up to.

eireannBEAR

Guys its the 21st century most of us are atheist,''wow we dont believe in god'',its certainly not something to celebrate its just the norm.

ah i see a few militant atheists here from another thread,if you want some group to be a part of become a humanist. its atheistism with out the feminist/atheist style militantism.

lazygal

eireannBEAR wrote: »

Guys its the 21st century most of us are atheist,''wow we dont believe in god'',its certainly not something to celebrate its just the norm.

ah i see a few militant atheists here from another thread,if you want some group to be a part of become a humanist. its atheistism with out the feminist/atheist style militantism.

Oh you!


By the way, what's a militant atheist?

seamus

bogwalrus wrote: »

If you could record the lives of a group of believers beside a group of non believers which group would look on paper to have had fuller happier lives? Or is such an experiment possible. Would the results make sense?

Since people can flip-flop between belief and non-belief, any experiment would be extraordinarily difficult to construct.

There's also the cart before the horse thing to consider. Studies have shown that there is a correlation between non-belief and suicide. Does this mean that non-belief leads to an unhappier life? Or does it mean that an unhappy life leads to non-belief (i.e. "If God existed, I would be happier")?

Corollary to the above is that there is also a correlation between suicide and IQ, and between IQ and non-belief. So is it just incidental that those without belief are more likely to commit suicide?

Afaik, there have been a couple of studies that have shown that believers are generally more content, but then sure ignorance is bliss, right?

It's a bit of a loaded question. One statistic loved by anti-divorce groups is that a married couple are less likely to break up than an cohabiting one. The forgotten part of this statistic is that these are not discrete groups - happy cohabiting couples are likely to get married, thereby reducing the number of happy cohabiting couples.
Similar would happen in this kind of study where unhappy believers become non-believers, thereby skewing whatever it is you're trying to measure.

So maybe people (atheist & christian) could post what they view their standard of life is on a scale 1-10? People can then elaborate if they want.

9.99. That 0.01 is where it would be nice to be 5kg lighter (hey, I'm working on it), 2 inches taller, have a big house and get paid €1m a year for nothing more than spending time with my family, riding my bike and playing my guitar.

I hope the 0.01 reflects just how utterly insignificant these "nice to have" things are to me in the overall evaulation of my life.

Solid 8 for me.

Happy out would not change a thing=)

"Would not change a thing". So why only an 8?

magicbastarder

lazygal wrote: »

By the way, what's a militant atheist?

weapons grade atheism.

Beruthiel

Love, love, LOVE my life. Wouldn't change a thing.
Well, maybe more money.
More money means I could travel more. Says she who has been out of the country 3 times this year already and will be off to Gay Paree in 5 weeks to see my favourite Jrock band.
If I could get my hands on the guitarist for the night, I could die happy.

eireannBEAR

lazygal wrote: »

Oh you!


By the way, what's a militant atheist?

An atheist who believes they are in a strong moral fight against the church and believes they must do every thing in their power to discredit them.

when really all they are doing is making the church relevant.

28064212

eireannBEAR wrote: »

Guys its the 21st century most of us are atheist

"Most" people are not atheist.

eireannBEAR wrote: »

''wow we dont believe in god'',its certainly not something to celebrate its just the norm.

Who was celebrating?

eireannBEAR wrote: »

ah i see a few militant atheists here from another thread

What's a militant atheist?

eireannBEAR wrote: »

if you want some group to be a part of become a humanist. its atheistism with out the feminist/atheist style militantism.

wat

Geomy

eireannBEAR wrote: »

Guys its the 21st century most of us are atheist,''wow we dont believe in god'',its certainly not something to celebrate its just the norm.

ah i see a few militant atheists here from another thread,if you want some group to be a part of become a humanist. its atheistism with out the feminist/atheist style militantism.

Sometimes people need to celebrate their detachment from God or organised religion as it had a detrimental effect on their lives and in some ways it was slavery to have to go along with something that was against the grain.

Rather like being free of drink, drugs, dodgy relationships etc

The initial freedom and detachment can be very liberating....

I remember when I had my confirmation, my parents sat me down and told me as far as religion was concerned it's up to me if I want to go to mass or not...

My mums alacart Catholic, my dad's agnostic/spiritual like myself.

lazygal

eireannBEAR wrote: »

An atheist who believes they are in a strong moral fight against the church and believes they must do every thing in their power to discredit them.

when really all they are doing is making the church relevant.

Oh you!

I couldn't care less what 'the church' (to which 'church' are you referring anyway? I think there's more than one knocking about) does, as long as it has no impact on my life, that of my children or anyone else who doesn't follow its teachings.


I think 'the church', such as the Catholic church, does a fine job discrediting itself. No need for militancy, just exposing what they've been up to.

HurtLocker

eireannBEAR wrote: »

Guys its the 21st century most of us are atheist,''wow we dont believe in god'',its certainly not something to celebrate its just the norm.

ah i see a few militant atheists here from another thread,if you want some group to be a part of become a humanist. its atheistism with out the feminist/atheist style militantism.

God damn militant athiest blowing up trains, starting wars I get you man, world needs more truth tellers like you. You need a bigger platform. I'd consider starting your own church.

eireannBEAR

lazygal wrote: »

I think 'the church', such as the Catholic church, does a fine job discrediting itself. No need for militancy, just exposing what they've been up to.

exactly church bashing is 50 years to late and if anything,will cause people to become die hard christians just like in the us,some atheists should stop attacking peoples beliefs and let the church play out the rest of its history.

lazygal

eireannBEAR wrote: »

exactly church bashing is 50 years to late and if anything,will cause people to become die hard christians just like in the us,some atheists should stop attacking peoples beliefs and let the church play out the rest of its history.

Which atheists, exactly? I don't see a rush to die hard Christianity in Ireland on the part of the majority. I think people are reluctant to replace one form of religiousness with another, even more strident form.

lazygal

HurtLocker wrote: »

God damn militant athiest blowing up trains, starting wars I get you man, world needs more truth tellers like you. You need a bigger platform. I'd consider starting your own church.

He could use a special K as a symbol.

eireannBEAR

lazygal wrote: »

Which atheists, exactly? I don't see a rush to die hard Christianity in Ireland on the part of the majority. I think people are reluctant to replace one form of religiousness with another, even more strident form.

Which atheists exactly....what,are you looking a few million names??

lazygal

eireannBEAR wrote: »

Which atheists exactly....what,are you looking a few million names??

Yes, please. You're claiming 'some' of them need to back off lest people convert to die hard christianity. Which ones need to back off?

HurtLocker

eireannBEAR wrote: »

exactly church bashing is 50 years to late and if anything,will cause people to become die hard christians just like in the us,some atheists should stop attacking peoples beliefs and let the church play out the rest of its history.

The nonsense they spouted during the abortion debate and the bits I'm starting to hear against gay marriage you can take a hike if you think in going to sit quietly for the rest of my life so they can vocally spout sh*t unchallenged.

Geomy

I think what eireannBEAR means is the more people verbally denounce or go against the church and make a public scene about it, the more it's going to insight anger and a strong reaction from the more militant and aggressive type of religious people.

eireannBEAR

HurtLocker wrote: »

The nonsense they spouted during the abortion debate and the bits I'm starting to hear against gay marriage you can take a hike if you think in going to sit quietly for the rest of my life so they can vocally spout sh*t unchallenged.

Science my friend science,should of won the abortion argument,but no,people believe it was right for abortion on the grounds of the mothers health when really more irish people die from abortion,than die from being refused one.

eireannBEAR

Geomy wrote: »

I think what eireannBEAR means is the more people verbally denounce or go against the church and make a public scene about it, the more it's going to insight anger and a strong reaction from the more militant and aggressive type of religious people.

They very well know this,they are just out on the attack for the sake of it.

lazygal

eireannBEAR wrote: »

Science my friend science,should of won the abortion argument,but no,people believe it was right for abortion on the grounds of the mothers health when really more irish people die from abortion,than die from being refused one.

What science should 'of' won the abortion argument?

What statistics show more Irish people die from abortion than being refused one? Early abortion of pregnancy is a very safe medical procedure, and its not like women never have complications or die during pregnancy, labour and birth.

Geomy

eireannBEAR wrote: »

They very well know this,they are just out on the attack for the sake of it.

Im a lover not a fighter, lol I can defend myself but if I don't say anything that will insight a fight 9 times out of 10 I'll never have to defend myself....

There's disadvantages of sitting on the fence, it's probably more lonely than being on either side but sure im happy out :-D

bogwalrus

seamus wrote: »

Since people can flip-flop between belief and non-belief, any experiment would be extraordinarily difficult to construct.

There's also the cart before the horse thing to consider. Studies have shown that there is a correlation between non-belief and suicide. Does this mean that non-belief leads to an unhappier life? Or does it mean that an unhappy life leads to non-belief (i.e. "If God existed, I would be happier")?

Corollary to the above is that there is also a correlation between suicide and IQ, and between IQ and non-belief. So is it just incidental that those without belief are more likely to commit suicide?

Afaik, there have been a couple of studies that have shown that believers are generally more content, but then sure ignorance is bliss, right?

It's a bit of a loaded question. One statistic loved by anti-divorce groups is that a married couple are less likely to break up than an cohabiting one. The forgotten part of this statistic is that these are not discrete groups - happy cohabiting couples are likely to get married, thereby reducing the number of happy cohabiting couples.
Similar would happen in this kind of study where unhappy believers become non-believers, thereby skewing whatever it is you're trying to measure.

I take your point and your spot on. Instead of bits of study's here and there and analysing them separate having one big study on a larger group of people where then some formula is applied to take under account all those variables you mentioned above would give a good enough answer.

It would be a difficult bit of research but not beyond the capabilities of science.

I would really love an answer to the question about whether religion hinders ambitions in any way. Since you put energy in this life to try get to heaven that must surely take away from other ambitions no?

seamus wrote: »

"Would not change a thing". So why only an 8?

If i was to give a 9 or 10 I would need to have a bit more cash in the bank and maybe be a few kg lighter. I might very well be a 9.5 in a few years and that's progress=)

kylith

Now I'm not in the middle of breakfast I'll answer a bit more fully.

bogwalrus wrote: »

As an atheist do you live a good, happy and full life?

I do my best to live a good life, and it is happy and full of love.

Is god punishing you silently in some way or has he interfered with your life plan in some way to punish you because you are not a believer?

If he is then it's the crappiest punishment ever since it's completely unnoticable. If I'm being punished it seems of the "May you forget where you put your keys" and "Thou shalt wake up 5 minutes before your alarm goes off" type.

If you could record the lives of a group of believers beside a group of non believers which group would look on paper to have had fuller happier lives? Or is such an experiment possible. Would the results make sense?

Such an experiment is probably impossible. One would have to have all other things being equal except religious belief.

I imagine believers would feel that non-believers should have less happier lives since god is not present in their lives

You imagine wrong.

but do they also believe that god is helping them on a daily basis to lets say, pass that driving test, get that new job etc?

How can I believe that something I don't believe exists helps me? Do you believe that fairies help you pass your driving test? That unicorns help you get a new job?

Do you hear atheists say 'Thank God'? Yes, but that's force of habit, not belief.

If they do believe god is looking out for them then surely on paper if you put believers beside non believers then one side will have a better life than the other no?

Again, too many variables. Is an Irish atheist having a better life than a Christian in Zimbabwe? Almost certainly. Better than a Christian lotto winner in the US? Probably not.

So maybe people (atheist & christian) could post what they view their standard of life is on a scale 1-10? People can then elaborate if they want.

Big ol' 8.5

Bannasidhe

I am not too happy right now as I have a very sick rescue foster dog (congenital and chronic ailment) to mind and I am worried about him, my OH's leg is in a cast for at least another week (5 weeks now) so all the household chores are falling to me leaving me little time and I am still on a borrowed laptop as a dog (not the sick one) chomped through my charger lead.

Religious belief will not cure the dog, OH's leg or my laptop charger so I don't see how being of a religious persuasion would make me feel any better tbh. OH is religious and prays every night but still things are as they are. From my perspective, no matter how much I believed I couldn't pray away the broken things. Instead I am researching surgical options for sick dog and planning a fund raising drive to pay for same if it is possible; OH did the same for me when I was out of action for ages due to surgery - minding each other is what one does in a relationship, religion has nothing to do with that; and I will eventually get to the shop and purchase a new laptop charger - around the same time as OH returns my automatic car which she needs to get to work (it's her left foot and she is cursed with a work ethic).

Maybe the belief in a big Daddy in the sky gives people comfort - me, I prefer to rely on my own abilities and those of my friends to accomplish what needs to be done. I see that as being part and parcel of being a grown-up. I could pray and convince myself I am 'doing' something positive - or I can email UCD vet hosp and make inquiries...

Apart from those things I mentioned - I'm pretty happy thanks. I still have loads of episodes of Deadwood to watch, I'm going to Jersey next month with my got over his homophobia Dad as, to his joy, I managed to track down the details of his grandfather who died before my grandmother was born and unearthed a wealth of information on that side of the family so we are going to go see where they lived and died and it looks like I am going to have a bumper crop of blackberries and apples this year.

bogwalrus

kylith wrote: »

You imagine wrong.

Really? I always feel people who believe in god feel sorry for those that don't. That because god is missing in our lives we must be miserable. I get it from my mother all the time. She says extra prayers for me.:D

kylith wrote: »

How can I believe that something I don't believe exists helps me? Do you believe that fairies help you pass your driving test? That unicorns help you get a new job?

The whole asking god to help me in a time of need compared to just doing the hard work are two very different ways of accomplishing a task. Over the course of a lifetime it would make for interesting results. As an example imagine a believer and non believer working in an office. One prays for the promotion the other works that extra bit hard to get it. Who do you think is going to get the job? The same can be said for tonnes of other lifetime scenarios.

kylith wrote: »

Again, too many variables. Is an Irish atheist having a better life than a Christian in Zimbabwe? Almost certainly. Better than a Christian lotto winner in the US? Probably not.

That's why you would have to take the groups from the exact same demographic. Maybe couples in their 40's from the same area. Finding the right candidates should not be too hard if you did it in a particular highly populated state in America as more numbers to play with.


I just found a happiness index online: http://www.happyplanetindex.org/data/#map-view

It seems Vietnam is the place to be happy.


Also this article says that yes religious people are happier and explains the reason why. http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/death-love-sex-magic/201212/are-religious-people-happier-non-religious-people

robindch

Bannasidhe wrote: »

I still have loads of episodes of Deadwood to watch [...]

Broadchurch isn't too bad either. A bit slow-moving in places, and with some dreadfully predictable lines + subplots, but overall, quite enjoyable.

Bannasidhe

robindch wrote: »

Broadchurch isn't too bad either. A bit slow-moving in places, and with some dreadfully predictable lines + subplots, but overall, quite enjoyable.

Was watching that then life interfered and I missed the vital whodidit penultimate episode - damn unrecordable 'other' channels :mad:.

I also failed to record the first 3 episodes of The Killing III - wonder if I prayed hard enough would some deity send me a linky to them?

endacl

I'm grand OP. Life is tickety boo.

robindch

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Was watching that then life interfered and I missed the vital whodidit penultimate episode - damn unrecordable 'other' channels

In Broadchurch, the murderer was revealed in the ultimate episode, not the penultimate one

Bannasidhe

robindch wrote: »

In Broadchurch, the murderer was revealed in the ultimate episode, not the penultimate one

Possibly - things were hectic at the time but I seem to recall the last episode dealt with the fall out surrounding the identity of the murderer ... and I did not know who it was for ages as it had been revealed in the previous

swampgas

I've had some ups and downs over the years (as do we all) but I can confidently say that I've coped better with whatever life has thrown at me as an atheist than I ever did as a believer. I'm quite relaxed about life in general, and pretty relaxed about my own mortality as well. All in all, I'm pretty happy with my lot in life.

Corkfeen

Well my standard of living is pretty high and I'm working my way up to being overqualified. Admittedly, I suffer from depression(which i'm slowly learning to cope with) but I really have no urge to use morally questionable deities to sort it out. Therapy would strike me as far more beneficial than repetition of a weekly practise of falling asleep during mass. So I'd probably say I'm around a 6.5. I'd suspect Catholic guilt tripping would have more of a negative impact upon my well being.

robindch wrote: »

In Broadchurch, the murderer was revealed in the ultimate episode, not the penultimate one

I'll watch Broadchurch while you work your way through Deadwood. Fair exchange!

Bannasidhe

Corkfeen wrote: »

Well my standard of living is pretty high and I'm working my way up to being overqualified. Admittedly, I suffer from depression(which i'm slowly learning to cope with) but I really have no urge to use morally questionable deities to sort it out. Therapy would strike me as far more beneficial than repetition of a weekly practise of falling asleep during mass. So I'd probably say I'm around a 6.5. I'd suspect Catholic guilt tripping would have more of a negative impact upon my well being.


I'll watch Broadchurch while you work your way through Deadwood. Fair exchange!

and I'll watch The Killing III.

kylith

Bannasidhe wrote: »

I also failed to record the first 3 episodes of The Killing III - wonder if I prayed hard enough would some deity send me a linky to them?

Yeah my child, if thou wouldest make clear thy willingness to receive a PM I canst guide thee to a wonderous land which floweth with stuff like that. Verily.

I watched series 1, hated the family, and didn't bother with series 2. I don't mind slow paced stuff, but The Killing took the frigging biscuit (but it was easy to get back because The Killing is soooooo ssssslllooooowwwwww).

eviltwin

Much, much happier since I've given up on religion.

I feel a lot more liberated, maybe that's because I'm being me rather than the me my family wanted me to be. I feel pretty good that I'm raising my kids without religion and without all the baggage that can go with a religion.

I still have the same everyday concerns I always had but don't we all?

Bannasidhe

kylith wrote: »

Yeah my child, if thou wouldest make clear thy willingness to receive a PM I canst guide thee to a wonderous land which floweth with stuff like that. Verily.

I watched series 1, hated the family, and didn't bother with series 2. I don't mind slow paced stuff, but The Killing took the frigging biscuit (but it was easy to get back because The Killing is soooooo ssssslllooooowwwwww).

Gadzooks with a hey-nonny-nonny, I thank thee most sincerely and profusely for thine offer of largess but the lord hath moved in mysterious ways and promptly provided a non-believer to fulfill mine desire - yet verily, if thee could provide guidance to this wondrous land beyond Ultima Thule which containeth and floweth with such diverse stuff like that then, I say onto thee, t'would be most excellent.

bogwalrus

eviltwin wrote: »

I still have the same everyday concerns I always had but don't we all?

Of course we all have the same day to day problems facing us but the way we go about sorting them out can be different and a lifetime of these decisions will lead to different outcomes.

My granny used to keep getting these awful eye infections. I remember at one point they were considering an operation where she might lose some of her vision.

To cut a long story short my Aunt noticed her dabbing holy water on her eyes at night to help them get better. The holy water obviously had some nasty crap in it.

Her blind faith (nup;)) could have lead to her eyes being lost.

krudler

lazygal wrote: »

Oh you!


By the way, what's a militant atheist?

magicbastarder wrote: »

weapons grade atheism.

Weapons of mass deduction

Bannasidhe

bogwalrus wrote: »

Of course we all have the same day to day problems facing us but the way we go about sorting them out can be different and a lifetime of these decisions will lead to different outcomes.

My granny used to keep getting these awful eye infections. I remember at one point they were considering an operation where she might lose some of her vision.

To cut a long story short my Aunt noticed her dabbing holy water on her eyes at night to help them get better. The holy water obviously had some nasty crap in it.

Her blind faith (nup;)) could have lead to her eyes being lost.

I think it comes down to how one defines 'doing something' - I imagine a believer would be certain that appealing to a higher power is 'doing something' and that can bring comfort and hope which are positive things but that does have a flip side when the higher power fails to help and this can lead to feeling of despair and abandonment. ' My God, My God - why hast thou foresaken me???' and all that.

Atheists, having no belief in a higher power, just get on with it. This can mean sometimes they feel alone and overwhelmed but it can also make them feel empowered and personally responsible rather than living life at the whim of some supernatural and invisible father figure.

doctoremma

bogwalrus wrote: »

As an atheist do you live a good, happy and full life?

It is mostly happy, mostly good and mostly full. Sometimes, it is boring, stressful, and annoying. I think this is normal.

bogwalrus wrote: »

Is god punishing you silently in some way or has he interfered with your life plan in some way to punish you because you are not a believer?

As an atheist, this does not compute.

bogwalrus wrote: »

So maybe people (atheist & christian) could post what they view their standard of life is on a scale 1-10? People can then elaborate if they want.

For my own personal feelings, I'm a 9-10. I am a happy person. The things that make me feel more like a 9 than a 10 are things that happen to me (a job, an illness and so on), not because I am unhappy in myself.

Sarky

krudler wrote: »

Weapons of mass deduction

I'd be up for a bit of mass disruption. Mass is bloody boring.

Bannasidhe

Sarky wrote: »

I'd be up for a bit of mass disruption. Mass is bloody boring.

Mass = Pilates for the elderly.

:pac:

gaynorvader

I'm happy most of the time. I'm generally content with my life as it's progressing.

jank

Life is good at the moment and I know I am lucky. To be honest I would not swap it with anyones. If I were to die tomorrow I would not have any regrets as I have done so many things with my life. The thing is though every year brings it new challenges and rewards.

There are of course somethings I cannot control and wish to change if I could but one has to try to accept the things they cannot change and do the best they can with the things they can change.

ShooterSF

One thing that has improved in my life is the realisation that "everything happens for a reason" is a crock of excrement. Some things happen by chance, others happen by events out of your control and others happen because of your actions or lack there of and focusing on those and questioning where you did right or wrong is much more healthy imo than trying to figure out why something random happened or attributing something to a sign of some destiny you have. I think I'm much more calm about life.

endacl

Tis great actually. Every Sunday is completely free, and I never worry that there's 'somebody watching me'.