Cyclists in bus lanes (cut from 'giving way to buses' thread)

Surveyor11

So not only do cyclists break lights, act the maggot on a bike and generally hold up motorists, now they don't pay taxes that pay for their cycle routes. I give up.:rolleyes:

ThisRegard

Zebra3 wrote: »

What do you mean by "pinko"?

I think his ire is directed at members of the T-Mobile pro cycling team.

mitosis

bmaxi wrote: »

Just the other day I came across three buses stuck behind a bicycle in the bus lane on Stillorgan Road, even though there is a perfectly good cycle lane on the footpath. .

I bet he had a helmet camera also.

Chiparus

Jack Kyle wrote: »

I see that the pinko cyclist lobby are up to their usual tricks.

Road tax = Motor tax

The terms are interchangeable.

The salient point is that motorists pay dearly for the "privilege" of using their vehicles on our roads while cyclists are free to cause mayhem and constantly moan about it without putting their hand in their pocket once.

Again all cyclists pay tax, many of them also pay motor tax.

Count every cyclist who passes you in a traffic jam and think how far further back you would be if they all decided to take their cars to work.

mitosis

seamus wrote: »

That's a pretty big sense of entitlement you've got there Jack. Your attitude is that cyclists' existence on the road is an "obstruction" to motorists, which implies that motorists have priority.

Which of course is incorrect. The existence or not of a cycle lane is immaterial. When you're stuck behind a convoy of trucks on a N-road, do you complain that they're not using the perfectly good L-roads which will bring them to their destination?

The problem is this notion in the individuals' heads that the road is for them and for no-one else, and therefore anyone going slower than you is in your way and should get out of it.

That's the idiot who's being inconsiderate and holier-than-thou.

That's the nail on the head, and it applies directly to the cyclist in the OP. As a motorist I could be prosecuted for obstructing the progress of other road users unnecessarily. The cyclist could and should have got out of the way.

Surveyor11

mitosis wrote: »

That's the nail on the head, and it applies directly to the cyclist in the OP. As a motorist I could be prosecuted for obstructing the progress of other road users unnecessarily. The cyclist could and should have got out of the way.

Agree, common manners apply no matter what you're using on the road. And could be open to prosecution, just because they're on a bike doesn't make them immune.

The whole cyclist / motorist debate is a circular argument - both feel equally entitled to use the roads. People need to respect each other a bit. Blowing people off the road or being verbally abusive is no way to live.

Surveyor11

ThisRegard wrote: »

I think his ire is directed at members of the T-Mobile pro cycling team.

Could be this kit?

markpb

mitosis wrote: »

That's the nail on the head, and it applies directly to the cyclist in the OP. As a motorist I could be prosecuted for obstructing the progress of other road users unnecessarily. The cyclist could and should have got out of the way.

Has any driver in Ireland ever been prosecuted for obstructing the progress of other road users?

Thujrog

Jack Kyle wrote: »

Are you for real?

I'm talking about situations where a motorist could comfortably drive past one cyclist but is forced to sit behind two or more cyclists cycling abreast.

You seem to be approaching this from a perverse viewpoint that it's perfectly fine for a cyclist to cycle in the middle of the road at (say) 20mph and obstruct traffic because "he's as much right to be there".

Bullsh1t. Common courtesy and common sense dictate otherwise.

Cyclists are, in the main, a menace.

I know this is now well off the point of the original topic, but I'd like to address the idea of "comfortably" driving past one cyclist. The reason that many cyclists travel two abreast or single cyclists cycle out from the side of the road is that too many drivers think it is always safe to pass a cyclist. Have a look at this stretch of road https://maps.google.com/?ll=52.659986,-9.529181&spn=0.045032,0.111494&t=m&z=14&layer=c&cbll=52.660227,-9.529436&panoid=VIUTkf2v7Zznrg3gi_-6vQ&cbp=12,348.01,,0,0.48

I often cycle this road. My position is to have my wheel around 4 inches to the right of the yellow line. Most cars will not pass unless the RHS of the road is clear. But I frequently encounter (at least one every 2 or 3 trips) drivers that will squeeze past at 50-60 mph with cars coming the other direction. As you can clearly see from the image there is no margin for error. It is extremely dangerous. This is why many cyclists will cycle 4 feet out in the lane, to prevent this happening.

The real menaces are those who squeeze past and beep their horn as they go past trying to scare you.

bmaxi

No Pants wrote: »

What' the on average speed of a bus in Dublin vs. the average speed of a cyclist?

How many passengers does a bike carry vs. a bus?

BostonB

mitosis wrote: »

That's the nail on the head, and it applies directly to the cyclist in the OP. As a motorist I could be prosecuted for obstructing the progress of other road users unnecessarily. The cyclist could and should have got out of the way.

Thats if the cyclist the didn't have a reason for being there.

Most motorists have no experience of cycling and why a cycle lane might be unsuitable, to cause a cyclist to need to be in the road. They just see cycle lane stop thinking any further about it.

runawaybishop

markpb wrote: »

Has any driver in Ireland ever been prosecuted for obstructing the progress of other road users?

Yes - farmer was given an on-the-spot fine for failing to pull in and allow traffic past. He subsequently got a years disqualification for refusing to pay it.

Chiparus

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0mETVR2534s

TheChizler

bmaxi wrote: »

How many passengers does a bike carry vs. a bus?

If the bike is going faster than the bus than it could be carrying 200 emergency transplantees and it wouldn't make a bit of difference.

BostonB

bmaxi wrote: »

How many passengers does a bike carry vs. a bus?

Whats your point here, having more motor vehicles, buses to ease congestion?

dublinbikes, founded in 2009, reached the 1 million journey milestone in August 2010, less than one year after it had been introduced. The busiest day last month was 29th March when 6,594 dublinbikes rentals were made. dublinbikes has over 44,600 long term subscribers to date and is one of the most successful bike share rental schemes in the world.

Do you think moving all these journeys to buses would ease congestion.

If you want to speed up buses, take cars out of the city center and have more bus lanes and better cycle lanes to encourage cycling. The odd cyclist in front of a bus isn't causing congestion, or any serious delays to a bus.

Most of the time a bus is much slower over the same journey in traffic and across the city than a bicycle.

ezra_pound

Zebra3 wrote: »

What do you mean by "pinko"?

The trotskyist pro cycling politicos not to be mixed up with Boris Johnson or david Cameron.

SeanW

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

people are lazy. why do you think obesity is such a big issue in Ireland (and the rest of the developed world).

Because of buses? (That was the intimation)

Combined with most workplaces not even having a shower or changing room its hardly ideal for many.

So there's actually a good reason then?

SeanW

runawaybishop wrote: »

Yes - farmer was given an on-the-spot fine for failing to pull in and allow traffic past. He subsequently got a years disqualification for refusing to pay it.

You can also fail your driving test for failing to make due progress ... hmm ... driving test ...

Because you're not allowed out on your own in a car until you've demonstrated a competence at it. Another thing cyclists can safely ignore.

LeinsterDub

SeanW wrote: »

Because you're not allowed out on your own in a car until you've demonstrated a competence at filling in the provisional licence application..

FYP

runawaybishop

SeanW wrote: »

You can also fail your driving test for failing to make due progress ... hmm ... driving test ...

Because you're not allowed out on your own in a car until you've demonstrated a competence at it. Another thing cyclists can safely ignore.

Not the same thing and brings nothing to the argument.

SeanW

LeinsterDub wrote: »

FYP

Firstly it's illegal to drive on your own on a Learner Permit (there hasn't been a "provisional license" in a long time) you also have to pass a Driver Theory Test before you get it. There are also some new regulations on LP users since any of that affected me.

hardCopy

SeanW wrote: »

You can also fail your driving test for failing to make due progress ... hmm ... driving test ...

Because you're not allowed out on your own in a car until you've demonstrated a competence at it. Another thing cyclists can safely ignore.

Because cars can like, kill people and stuff.

Granolite

SeanW wrote: »

You can also fail your driving test for failing to make due progress ... hmm ... driving test ...

Because you're not allowed out on your own in a car until you've demonstrated a competence at it. Another thing cyclists can safely ignore.

Yes, and as part of the privilege of owning and driving a car the driver, as part of the overall competency arrived at on obtaining a driving license, should ensure they command a level of respect for other road user's rather than engage in what i can only interpret as mean-mouthed outbursts on this forum by you and a few choice others.

Your posts strike of deep seated animosity rather than any kind of concern/respect for fellow road user's. There's a number of bad apples out there who routinely flout laws and common courtesy be they on foot, on two wheels, or four for that matter but I don't come on forums like this one to invest in outpouring of miserableness to others who don't share my mode of transport on the roads..and I speak as a driver, a cyclist and as a pedestrian when i say that.

I can only assume your position on the matter from what I've read here can only translate to an aggressive approach in your driving etiquette also, as so eloquently and robustly put by poster Jack Kyle who perhaps merely lacks any pretense to know any basic understanding of the ROTR.

seamus

SeanW wrote: »

Because you're not allowed out on your own in a car until you've demonstrated a competence at it. Another thing cyclists can safely ignore.

That's a strawman argument. It's like saying because guns can kill people but so can knives, the same rules should apply to knife ownership as apply to gun ownership.

SeanW

Granolite wrote: »

Yes, and as part of the privilege of owning and driving a car the driver, as part of the overall competency arrived at on obtaining a driving license, should ensure they command a level of respect for other road user's

Correct.

rather than engage in what i can only interpret as mean-mouthed outbursts on this forum by you and a few choice others.

The driving test does not require you to have the "correct" political views, it requires you to show consideration for other road users and drive with competence. Both of which I do routinely.

I can only assume your position on the matter from what I've read here can only translate to an aggressive approach in your driving etiquette also, as so eloquently and robustly put by poster Jack Kyle who perhaps merely lacks any pretense to know any basic understanding of the ROTR.

And you would be dead wrong. I cannot speak for Mr. Kyle, but on the road, I make it a point to treat other road users with respect.

Any animosity that I have towards cyclists is mere reciprocal animosity, because it tends to be cyclists that have the most hateful and agressive views about how motorists should be allowed to use the road, cyclopath2001 was a fine example of this before he closed his account, but there are a few current members whose views would be broadly similar.

So as a pedestrian and motorist, when I'm walking legally on the footpath or crossing the street, I have to play "dodge the twat" with some cyclist who thinks knows the ROTR don't apply to them, but as a motorist I have to contend with cycling hardliners who complain bitterly about the use of the colloquial term "road tax" more so than any other colloquial term, support ever more punishing regulation and taxes against motorists, always look for ways to make everything as motorist hostile as possible, give the impression that if they could blame motorists for the Black Death, they would do so, and are absolutely devoid of any level of common sense or any ability to give-and-take.

So I am routinely faced with extreme hostility from cyclists both as a pedestrian and a motorist. On boards, I respond in kind.

But I assure you that I do not do so when behind the wheel, because I understand that as a motorist it is my duty to rise above the hateful pettiness and to consider respect and safety of others.

beauf

SeanW wrote: »

Correct.
The driving test does not require you to have the "correct" political views, it requires you to show consideration for other road users and drive with competence......

That someone managed to pass the test doesn't mean they will drive the same way afterwards. Which is reflected in the accident statistics.

Spook_ie

Chiparus wrote: »

I paid 100k in direct taxes plus over 3k in motor tax, now can I have a cycle lane to a similar standard as the bus lane?

But YOU as a cyclist haven't paid any where near the tax required to build and maintain cycle lanes of the standard they are, let alone a similar standard.

I suppose next you'll be complaining that they used your taxes to pay for something else other than your old age pension, hospital, fire station, garda station etc.

beauf

SeanW wrote: »

... "dodge the twat"....

... and people ignoring the rules and laws is very common with motorists also.

beauf

Spook_ie wrote: »

But YOU as a cyclist haven't paid any where near the tax required to build and maintain cycle lanes of the standard they are, let alone a similar standard.

I suppose next you'll be complaining that they used your taxes to pay for something else other than your old age pension, hospital, fire station, garda station etc.

There are benefits to the economy of reduced congestion, pollution, and health benefits by more people cycling. Whats the cost if all those people drove instead.

Spook_ie

steve-o wrote: »

It's far from excellent. As a cyclist, when I start off from the previous lights with a bus behind me, people waiting to get on the bus are blocking the bike lane. So I stay on the road past the bus stop. There are no ramps up onto the bike lane, so I stay on the road and rejoin the bike lane when I can. Maybe you expect bikes to wait at bus stops while people get on and off or come to a stop after and lift their bike up the kerb. But it's not going to happen.

Because ( particularly in the case of the illustration on the N11 ) there are yield signs on the cyclepath but of course cyclists are allowed to ignore them as well as change their routing to avoid them, so lets have some honesty here for a change what you really mean is YOU don't want to be inconvenienced because YOU don't have a cycle path that allows YOU to take precedence over bus passengers so YOU would rather hold the bus up