Selling a silencer/moderator?

johnnymolloy

Hi,

I was thinking about selling a silencer but im not sure if i can just sell it, is it like a firearm where paperwork is involved or is it just a straight trade?

1shot16

Can only be sold to someone with a S on their licence.

Sparks

It is selling a firearm, legally.

Section one of the firearms act where it defines what a firearm is, says:

“firearm” means—

...

(g) except where the context otherwise requires, any component part of any article referred to in any of the foregoing paragraphs and, without prejudice to the generality of the foregoing, the following articles shall be deemed to be such component parts:

(i) telescope sights with a light beam, or telescope sights with an electronic light amplification device or an infra-red device, designed to be fitted to a firearm specified in paragraph (a), (b), (c) or (e),
(ii) a silencer designed to be fitted to a firearm specified in paragraph (a), (b) or (e), and
(iii) any object—

(I) manufactured for use as a component in connection with the operation of a firearm, and
(II) without which it could not function as originally designed,

johnnymolloy

thanks mate that was quick!

One shot on kill

1shot16 wrote: »

Can only be sold to someone with a S on their licence.

Don't know if that's completely true and here is my reason.

In my local RFD the other day I asked the same question he told me he can sell it to me but it is illegal if I use it on the rifle with out the s. I've bought 2 with no paperwork just money.

They are fairly bang on with there info but this to me is a shady area anyway. So that's my reason for doubting.

Sorry lad not trying to sound smart.

1shot16

One shot on kill wrote: »

Don't know if that's completely true and here is my reason.

In my local RFD the other day I asked the same question he told me he can sell it to me but it is illegal if I use it on the rifle with out the s. I've bought 2 with no paperwork just money.

They are fairly bang on with there info but this to me is a shady area anyway. So that's my reason for doubting.

So you can buy them without an S on the licence but it would be illegal to be using it?

johnnymolloy

One shot on kill wrote: »

Don't know if that's completely true and here is my reason.

In my local RFD the other day I asked the same question he told me he can sell it to me but it is illegal if I use it on the rifle with out the s. I've bought 2 with no paperwork just money.

They are fairly bang on with there info but this to me is a shady area anyway. So that's my reason for doubting.

weird thing is i have no 's' on my license but it was marked that i required one on the application and it was never denied to me with a reason stating why(my gun was sold as a deal with silencer). Its incredibly vague...

One shot on kill

That the info I got because when I asked I was told I could by one but it was up to me if I wanted to break the law by using it. I have the s now anyway.

Just to say this is info that was shared with me by a person selling the gear I'm not saying its fact or bible. Just what I was informed. This area is a mine field for info quotes and tales.

Op just go back to your FO and ask him you applied for one and would like to know if it was refused. Or a mistake.

Sparks

One shot on kill wrote: »

In my local RFD the other day I asked the same question he told me he can sell it to me but it is illegal if I use it on the rifle with out the s. I've bought 2 with no paperwork just money.

Your RFD is wrong. If he sells you a mod without you having a licence for it (that's what the S is effectively) then you're in possession of an unlicenced firearm. Bit of a no-no, that, and the law doesn't punish the RFD for it because it's your responsibility to have all the paperwork sorted.

johnnymolloy

One shot on kill wrote: »

That the info I got because when I asked I was told I could by one but it was up to me if I wanted to break the law by using it. I have the s now anyway.

Just to say this is info that was shared with me by a person selling the gear I'm not saying its fact or bible. Just what I was informed. This area is a mine field for info quotes and tales.

Op just go back to your FO and ask him you applied for one and would like to know if it was refused. Or a mistake.

believe it or not my FO is a pain in the arse my brother had been refused a silencer with a reason so he appealed it and was waiting 6 months for a decision then it was granted with absolutely stupid rules to where he was allowed to use it, i'd rather avoid the hassle...

Sparks

johnnymolloy wrote: »

i'd rather avoid the hassle...

Then don't use a silencer. Sorry, but you don't have any other legal option here.

Mind you, don't listen to the FO if he's fobbing you off, it's not his call, it's purely the Super's. That's not my advice either, it's the Gardai's (specifically the Firearms Policy Unit's).

johnnymolloy

i didn't see the other post before i posted that so i suppose i'll have to go up and sort things out or i'll soon be deaf.

One shot on kill

Sparks wrote: »

Your RFD is wrong. If he sells you a mod without you having a licence for it (that's what the S is effectively) then you're in possession of an unlicenced firearm. Bit of a no-no, that, and the law doesn't punish the RFD for it because it's your responsibility to have all the paperwork sorted.

Here your ans johnny even if you do sell its up to the other person to abide by the law.

I know the whole thing around legally its a firearm an all but if its not the same level of paper work and all then is it or is it only when it is put onto the barrel.

That post from the law you quoted sparks would you say that's very vague or straight to the point.
But no you don need to fill in fca1 and all that crap. If it were me I'd see the FO and get it on the license sure your aswell have it and not use than want it and not have it.

Sparks

It's pretty straight to the point really. It defines a moderator as a firearm, no ifs, ands or buts about it. You need some form of licence or authorisation to possess one, doesn't matter if it's screwed onto the barrel or not. Originally this was done with a letter from the Super; now it's done with the S on a licence. Ether way, without authorisation or licence, possession of a moderator is possession of an unlicenced firearm and that's a max of five years and €10k of fines, so they're not kidding about it.

johnnymolloy

If i do decide sell it i will be getting another one that is lighter so i do need to get it sorted thanks guys!

Cass

Lads,

Just reminding people that this is not the for sale section. So no selling of goods. We have a for sale section for that.

zen260

Sparks wrote: »

Your RFD is wrong. If he sells you a mod without you having a licence for it (that's what the S is effectively) then you're in possession of an unlicenced firearm. Bit of a no-no, that, and the law doesn't punish the RFD for it because it's your responsibility to have all the paperwork sorted.

this is not entirely true either,,,the definition of a firearm in irish law is any gun including an air gun incorporating a barrel with a muzzle energy greater than 1 joule is defined as a firearm,,I can vouch for this as I had to take a case to court in march of this year to reiterate this,,an incident where a cop confiscated a SLINGSHOT -AIRSOFT GUN AND COMPOUND BOW,saying the required a licence,needless to say all items were returned and heads were rolled,The law can be and is very messy in this area in Ireland,A silencer itself is not classed as a firearm because it is none of they above,,,meaning it dosent have a barrel ect

Sparks

zen260 wrote: »

this is not entirely true either,,,the definition of a firearm in irish law is any gun including an air gun incorporating a barrel with a muzzle energy greater than 1 joule is defined as a firearm

This isn't correct zen. The definition of firearm in Irish law is enormously wide - strictly speaking even a nut or bolt from the action would be considered a firearm in and of itself legally speaking (and yes, that's been a common point raised with the DoJ and they're aware of it but there was never any opportunity to fix it). Common sense gets used for things of that nature most of the time, but silencers are specifically mentioned in section (g) and don't get leeway; and yes, this has been discussed with the DoJ and the Gardai and that's their position on it.