Do tourists matter more than residents?

southsiderosie

The IT reported today that the Dublin Chamber of Commerce wants the city and the Garda to do something about the aggressive beggars and drug dealing in central Dublin because it is 'putting off tourists'.

I left Dublin two years ago, but I remember being shocked by seeing people dealing drugs out of baby strollers in front of the Abbey Theater and the DART stops in the city center. I also used to wonder why there was always a police officer in front of the GPO, but never further up towards Parnell Street where feral children used to harass people on a regular basis.

That said, why do proposed changes always have to be about tourism? At what point does the decline in the quality of life for locals become enough of a problem to get national attention? Certainly a lot of cities have this problem, but how can it be fixed - especially in a place like Dublin where the local government doesn't actually have a lot of power?

Christ the Redeemer

Alan Cooke, owner of John J Cooke’s silversmith in Fownes Street, said yesterday an Englishman had been in his shop on Wednesday and had spent €550 on two small trophies to award among golfing friends staying at the K Club in Co Kildare this week.
“He was staying at the Clarence hotel for a night, having dinner in Shanahan’s on the Green. He came in here and dropped €550 on a few little prizes for his friends. He said to me that he really liked Ireland but he would never be back in Dublin because of the aggressive begging and the junkies. He said he had never experienced anything like it.

A RICH GUY! yes, it's time to act Garda. This cannot go on.

(though, I agree something needs to be done, this kinda tweaked my ****)

Chips Lovell

Feck the tourists. Where am I going to buy my drugs if they chase all the dealers away?

Sunglasses Ron

It is an Irish attitude as old as the hills. When I was young the family houses would get a mini renovation (licks of paint, new furniture) whenever "the yanks" were coming for one of their twice per decade visits from New York. Be it at government or family level the Irish hate our foreign cousins to think we are still living like Angela's Ashes and always have done.

I don't think they knew they were casually referred to s "the yanks" either

griffdaddy

Tourists bring money with them into the country. That money wasn't in the country before they came here. It's hardly rocket science.

Valetta

There is a big problem in our cities with drugs and anti-social behaviour.

To fix this problrm, lots of resources- mostly financial are required.

Tourism brings in loads of money from outside the country. New money that isn't being raised by taxes and charges which only serve to move around our existing pot of money.

Tourists are put off by these very problems, and won't come and spend money.

Join up the dots, folks.......

Hownowcow

I work in the city centre and I always feel sorry for the tourists when I see them being hassled. That said the beggars don't discriminate, they hassle everyone.

I really don't care what reason is used to stamp it out just so long as it is stamped out.

Talib Fiasco

They do in Kilkenny anyway.

IRLConor

As some one who lives in the city centre I don't care what excuse is used if it helps to improve the quality of life for people who live here.

Wompa1

Sunglasses Ron wrote: »

I don't think they knew they were casually referred to s "the yanks" either

I doubt it, most people foolishly believe that the Irish are friendly people

Valetta

Wompa1 wrote: »

I doubt it, most people foolishly believe that the Irish are friendly people

Are we not?

Wompa1

Valetta wrote: »

Are we not?

Not really. Some of the people living out in the country are still nice and friendly. People who live in the bigger towns and cities are d1cks. Refer to the 5,000 threads about the Celtic Tiger

Valetta

Wompa1 wrote: »

Not really. Some of the people living out in the country are still nice and friendly. People who live in the bigger towns and cities are d1cks. Refer to the 5,000 threads about the Celtic Tiger

That's a very sweeping statement.

Any specific examples of these "dicks" and what makes then so unfriendly?

Karl Stein

Hamsterdam yo.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GOHkrZECnfs

Bowlardo

Cathal Cloch wrote: »

Hamsterdam yo.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GOHkrZECnfs

I think that is actually a plausible idea. The city centre is scandalous. There is no other city (that I have been to) as bad as dublin for junkies and homeless. Through something down the arse end of dublin port and let them off.

The GF'scousin was over and we went around dublin on the bank holiday monday (when the bus stirkes were on) and the place was lovely because the lack of scum unable to get in to the city centre.

fishy fishy

griffdaddy wrote: »

Tourists bring money with them into the country. That money wasn't in the country before they came here. It's hardly rocket science.

so do drugs :D

Karl Stein

Bowlardo wrote: »

I think that is actually a plausible idea.

It's a no-brainer. The indefatigable Joe Duffy brigade would be outraged though.

OldNotWIse

Tourists bring money. Also who cares why the problem is sorted out so long as it IS sorted out.

c_man

Dublin has an awful problem with tolerence for junkies and scumbags. Anytime I say it to a dub they laugh it off. Seriously, people shooting up on public transport is not the norm in any big city I've been.

Ray Palmer

Valetta wrote: »

There is a big problem in our cities with drugs and anti-social behaviour.

To fix this problrm, lots of resources- mostly financial are required.

.

The first thing they need to do is change the constitution. A barrister brought a case against the state on behalf of a beggar who was being fined for begging. He successfully had the laws on begging thrown out because it is against our constitution. We actually would need to have a referendum to change this in order to have anti-begging laws again.

That is why the problem got so bad so quickly. They could of course brought in constitutionally valid laws for certain behaviour or actually use the asbo system but I think they made such a mess of that it is unworkable

Wompa1

Valetta wrote: »

That's a very sweeping statement.

Any specific examples of these "dicks" and what makes then so unfriendly?

Land in Dublin Airport. Get to border control, say hello, Garda doesn't say anything and gestures his hand, you push your passport forward. The guy doesn't lift his head any more, doesn't say boo. Without making eye contact pushes the passport back and waves you on. I've had to travel a lot for work, every time without fail, when I fly back home there's no friendly face to welcome you to the country. I flew into the UAE once, even with armed guards on both sides, the border patrol was still friendly.

When you go to a country, odds are you'll use a taxi. I can't count how many times I've been told about how foreign drivers are cheating the system e.g. Nigerian taxi drivers scamming the system by registering multiple cars in different towns with the one license. Had a driver tell me about bringing some yank out past the K Club when he wanted to go to a place in South Dublin.

Went to a Wrestelmania, two Irish lads were mocking the crowd while the national anthem of the country they were in and chose to come to, was playing. Nobody was forcing them to sing the f'kin thing or even stand up, but they could have shown a little respect for their hosts.

I was reading a blog by two Phillipino nurses working in a hospital in Ireland talking about the racial abuse they get from the patients.

Went into a Chinese restaurant in a small place in Galway at 1:30am on a Saturday night and a group of lads were mocking the owner of the place for cooking cats and making cat noises at him, while other customers are coming in, hearing all of that.

I worked in a Toy Shop for a year. I could write a book with the amount of abuse I got, not just complaining about a product or service, but personal insults and usually they were in the wrong.

Worked in a large multi-national, dealing with offshore teams and also doing work for offshore clients. The people (not just some, pretty much all, including management) all knew better than all of the offshore people, usually making remarks about their nationalities or cultures being a reason why they were incompetent compared to 'us'

How many people on here have sh!t on Americans, sh!t on Spanish students, sh!t on Nigerians, sh!t on Polish, sh!t on the Brits etc. ? I get people have e-balls but I've heard it all plenty of times from people in person too.

Just a few. Now, go ahead and make a comment about generalizing. That seems to be the go to response.

It's alright. Hopefully the majority of the A-holes are over in Australia by now.

Valetta

You said-

Wompa1 wrote: »

People who live in the bigger towns and cities are d1cks.

You still haven't backed up the generalisation contained in that statement.

Isolated incidents don't make it true.

ScumLord

southsiderosie wrote: »

That said, why do proposed changes always have to be about tourism?

Because saying it's affecting tourism will read as "OMG we're hemorrhaging money! Somebody shot the homeless!" to an Irish person. The media break everything down to cost which is what they think is most important to every greedy Irish person.

thecatspjs

Wompa1 wrote: »

Land in Dublin Airport. Get to border control, say hello, Garda doesn't say anything and gestures his hand, you push your passport forward ...

Such generalisations!!!:P

Seriously though, there do be ignorant cúnts everywhere. Not just in Ireland. I don't think that were any nicer or friendlier than any other country however.

Wompa1

Valetta wrote: »

You said-




You still haven't backed up the generalisation contained in that statement.

Isolated incidents don't make it true.

ahh I see, so how do you rate the friendliness of people? Since you can't use your own judgement and your own experiences? The above were just examples. I lived in Ireland from 1986-2012. People were extremely friendly right up until about the early 2000's.

Sinfonia

Wompa1 wrote: »

Land in Dublin Airport. Get to border control, say hello, Garda doesn't say anything and gestures his hand, you push your passport forward. The guy doesn't lift his head any more, doesn't say boo. Without making eye contact pushes the passport back and waves you on. I've had to travel a lot for work, every time without fail, when I fly back home there's no friendly face to welcome you to the country. I flew into the UAE once, even with armed guards on both sides, the border patrol was still friendly.

When you go to a country, odds are you'll use a taxi. I can't count how many times I've been told about how foreign drivers are cheating the system e.g. Nigerian taxi drivers scamming the system by registering multiple cars in different towns with the one license. Had a driver tell me about bringing some yank out past the K Club when he wanted to go to a place in South Dublin.

Went to a Wrestelmania, two Irish lads were mocking the crowd while the national anthem of the country they were in and chose to come to, was playing. Nobody was forcing them to sing the f'kin thing or even stand up, but they could have shown a little respect for their hosts.

I was reading a blog by two Phillipino nurses working in a hospital in Ireland talking about the racial abuse they get from the patients.

Went into a Chinese restaurant in a small place in Galway at 1:30am on a Saturday night and a group of lads were mocking the owner of the place for cooking cats and making cat noises at him, while other customers are coming in, hearing all of that.

I worked in a Toy Shop for a year. I could write a book with the amount of abuse I got, not just complaining about a product or service, but personal insults and usually they were in the wrong.

Worked in a large multi-national, dealing with offshore teams and also doing work for offshore clients. The people (not just some, pretty much all, including management) all knew better than all of the offshore people, usually making remarks about their nationalities or cultures being a reason why they were incompetent compared to 'us'

How many people on here have sh!t on Americans, sh!t on Spanish students, sh!t on Nigerians, sh!t on Polish, sh!t on the Brits etc. ? I get people have e-balls but I've heard it all plenty of times from people in person too.

Just a few. Now, go ahead and make a comment about generalizing. That seems to be the go to response.

It's alright. Hopefully the majority of the A-holes are over in Australia by now.

While I'm not doubting any of the above, and obviously none of it is good, I've seen examples of all of it in nearly any city I've been to (off the top of my head, I'd say about 15 in Europe and 15 in North America).

The fact that this 'Englishman' had 'never seen anything like' the 'aggressive begging and junkies' in Dublin, seems mind-boggling to me, as though he's never been to a major city before; London's much worse for a start!

ScumLord

Sinfonia wrote: »

The fact that this 'Englishman' had 'never seen anything like' the 'aggressive begging and junkies' in Dublin, seems mind-boggling to me, as though he's never been to a major city before; London's much worse for a start!

In London they start crying when you don't give them anything. I'd much prefer a verbal assault from an Irish beggar than watching a grown man cry.

Wompa1

Sinfonia wrote: »

While I'm not doubting any of the above, and obviously none of it is good, I've seen examples of all of it in nearly any city I've been to (off the top of my head, I'd say about 15 in Europe and 15 in North America).

The fact that this 'Englishman' had 'never seen anything like' the 'aggressive begging and junkies' in Dublin, seems mind-boggling to me, as though he's never been to a major city before; London's much worse for a start!

Won't be popular but, I've been to a lot of major cities and am living in a place with a high homeless population. But I've never ecountered so many homeless people sleeping on the streets as I have in Dublin. Maybe it's because they are sleeping in places right around the 'touristy' parts of the city, though. It's sad, where I am at the moment, there's an empty lost with a bunch of tents setup with homeless people living there. It can get up to 50 degrees during the summer. There's shelters too but I guess they get filled up quick.

Valetta

Wompa1 wrote: »

ahh I see, so how do you rate the friendliness of people? Since you can't use your own judgement and your own experiences? The above were just examples. I lived in Ireland from 1986-2012. People were extremely friendly right up until about the early 2000's.

How do you figure I can't use my own judgement or experiences?

I haven't made any sweeping generalisations.

I find the Irish to be in the main a freindly and welcoming people to foreigners, whether they be tourists or immigrants. This is backed up by my experiences of meeting people abroad and their stories of visits to Ireland.

Of course there are exceptions.

southsiderosie

Ray Palmer wrote: »

The first thing they need to do is change the constitution. A barrister brought a case against the state on behalf of a beggar who was being fined for begging. He successfully had the laws on begging thrown out because it is against our constitution. We actually would need to have a referendum to change this in order to have anti-begging laws again.

That is why the problem got so bad so quickly. They could of course brought in constitutionally valid laws for certain behaviour or actually use the asbo system but I think they made such a mess of that it is unworkable

I'm less bothered by panhandlers than I am by the drug dealers, the zombies looking for them, and anti-social behavior. And here's the thing I don't get: you get shooed along for sitting on the grass in St Stephen's Green, but nobody moves you along when you are dealing out of a pram or shooting up by the river. But I guess it is easier to shoo away confused tourists than to deal with junkies and hoodlums. :mad:

I just think it's sad that when local people complain about stuff they get ignored, but if foreigners (i.e. British or Americans) and/or people with money raise a stink, all of a sudden it's a priority? If the US State Department tomorrow put out a travel advisory on Dublin, that would have more effect on local patrolling than a week of protests. Which stinks.

Wompa1

Valetta wrote: »

How do you figure I can't use my own judgement or experiences?

I haven't made any sweeping generalisations.

I find the Irish to be in the main a freindly and welcoming people to foreigners, whether they be tourists or immigrants. This is backed up by my experiences of meeting people abroad and their stories of visits to Ireland.

Of course there are exceptions.

Because I can't use my own experiences. I find the Irish to be in the main a very quiet, passive and unfriendly people who rely on alcohol as a social crutch. While sober, people are unlikely to express any real emotion other than anger. People pass judgement on out-going behavior, unless you are drunk or they are drunk. You have to go out to the country to find people who will hold an actual conversation with you and exchange in small talk and pleasentries.

Somehow my opinion is a generalization, likely because it's negative, while yours, being more positive, is not?

I think it was Freud who may have said something like the Irish are the only people on earth who cannot be psycho-analyzed. But who would listen to that guy, eh? that f**ker was generalizing

southsiderosie

Wompa1 wrote: »

Because I can't use my own experiences. I find the Irish to be in the main a very quiet, passive and unfriendly people who rely on alcohol as a social crutch. While sober, people are unlikely to express any real emotion other than anger. People pass judgement on out-going behavior, unless you are drunk or they are drunk. You have to go out to the country to find people who will hold an actual conversation with you and exchange in small talk and pleasentries.

Somehow my opinion is a generalization, likely because it's negative, while yours, being more positive, is not?

I think it was Freud who may have said something like the Irish are the only people on earth who cannot be psycho-analyzed. But who would listen to that guy, eh? that f**ker was generalizing

Your opinion, as you've presented it, is a generalization. You're just speaking to your experience; other people would feel differently.

clairefontaine

In think the question is why is the motivation to improve city live for the tourists? Why can't the motivation be for the people of the city?

Wompa1

southsiderosie wrote: »

Your opinion, as you've presented it, is a generalization. You're just speaking to your experience; other people would feel differently.

Yeah but this site is about discussion...and giving your opinion and insight. What I posted is my opinion. I'm not trying to put in a decree that it be noted by all and accepted by all that this is FACT. It's an opinion.

Figure that was pretty clear. Plus the fact I said there are friendly people would mean it's not all that much of a sweeping generalization.

April O Neill

c_man wrote: »

Seriously, people shooting up on public transport is not the norm in any big city I've been.

In my 8 years in Dublin (2002-2010), I never once saw that happen.

c_man

April O Neill wrote: »

In my 8 years in Dublin (2002-2010), I never once saw that happen.

Fair enough. But what stuff reported in a recent thread

April O Neill

Wompa1 wrote: »

Won't be popular but, I've been to a lot of major cities and am living in a place with a high homeless population. But I've never ecountered so many homeless people sleeping on the streets as I have in Dublin. Maybe it's because they are sleeping in places right around the 'touristy' parts of the city, though. It's sad, where I am at the moment, there's an empty lost with a bunch of tents setup with homeless people living there. It can get up to 50 degrees during the summer. There's shelters too but I guess they get filled up quick.

San Francisco, bud. Prague. LA. Those three spring to mind as having plenty of homeless people.

I'll never understand why people want homeless people out of view anyway. They're people too. Where's the humanity? Any of us could end up on the street.

April O Neill

c_man wrote: »

Fair enough. But what stuff reported in a recent thread

I never said it never happened. I've just never seen it myself, and that is with getting a lot of public transport through, or originating from, disadvantaged areas over the years.

mattjack

c_man wrote: »

Fair enough. But what stuff reported in a recent thread

It would be extremely difficult to either smoke or IV inject heroin on a moving public bus.
To use intravenously needs time to prepare ... mix up water and citric etc,find a vein etc.
Smoking it involves quite a bit of a concentration , almost a balancing act and takes time as well.The smell is very distinct too.