Why is cycling so popular in the Netherlands?

Jawgap

From the Beeb.....

There are more bicycles than residents in The Netherlands and in cities like Amsterdam and The Hague up to 70% of all journeys are made by bike. The BBC's Hague correspondent, Anna Holligan, who rides an omafiets - or "granny style" - bike complete with wicker basket and pedal-back brakes, examines what made everyone get back in the saddle.

The 70s velo-rution
Before World War II, journeys in the Netherlands were predominantly made by bike, but in the 1950s and 1960s, as car ownership rocketed, this changed. As in many countries in Europe, roads became increasingly congested and cyclists were squeezed to the kerb.

The jump in car numbers caused a huge rise in the number of deaths on the roads. In 1971 more than 3,000 people were killed by motor vehicles, 450 of them children.

In response a social movement demanding safer cycling conditions for children was formed. Called Stop de Kindermoord (Stop the Child Murder), it took its name from the headline of an article written by journalist Vic Langenhoff whose own child had been killed in a road accident.

Interesting to contrast the Irish response to improving road safety to the Dutch response.

ednwireland

Jawgap wrote: »

From the Beeb.....



Interesting to contrast the Irish response to improving road safety to the Dutch response.

this was on newsnight last night wasnt it, there was a quote from some motoring lobby guy saying that cycling was possibly the most dangerous thing you could do and that everyone should use public transport (no doubt car drivers). pretty much says it all

it also showed how bad londons clue cycle lanes were. too narrow and blocked with traffic

it definitly showed how entrenched anti commuting cyclling views are (and i'm guessing its the same here, i saw 2 cars on my cycle to work so i doubt i'm in much of a postion to comment on what cycling facilities are like as i dont have any )

juansheet

Its flat

nordicb

It's overpopulated country - easiest way to get to the destination is by bike.

Also their taxes are based on car weight and diesels in contrast to Ireland are way more expensive to tax. Fuel prices are among the highest in Europe.

Have to add, they have quite developed infrastructure for cycling, can cycle from city to city on cycling paths. I've read somewhere they have about 70m of cycle path per person in the country. However it is a highway based and a very restrictive country too. It means if you got a road bike you may never fulfill your desire of going fast as most roads do not allow cycling on them and cycling paths are too slow, or too uneven. Ireland is much more enjoyable to cycle despite having no cycling paths and it also got hills Oh wait, they might "get" one too here!

galwaycyclist

Jawgap wrote: »

From the Beeb.....



Interesting to contrast the Irish response to improving road safety to the Dutch response.

This is the issue. The Stop de Kindermoord campaign got the support of the Dutch National media who highlighted what was going on and made life uncomfortable for the politicians. Eventually the central government paid for people from Stop de Kindermoord to work in the local authorities to advise on making Dutch towns and cities safer.

To compare and contrast with Ireland, in 1998 we had the highest child pedestrian death rate in Western Europe. From memory we kept that record in 1999 and 2001. There was no media campaign. The newspapers and broadcast media did not "investigate" or "demand action". At the time, and to be fair to them, the old National Safety Council (precursors to the RSA) did acknowledge the issue in their press releases on Ireland's safety record. However, I recall this awkward fact being left out of newspaper articles based on those same press releases.

In Ireland we have a journalism profession and a National Media who are open to the accusation that they see themselves as motorists first and as journalists second. They could be accused of treating Irish children's safety as expendable in pursuit of their own lifestyle choices and the commercial interests of key advertising sectors i.e. the motor trade.

This ties in with other themes such as the role of the Irish media in fueling and pushing the property bubble that has left the country in such a mess.

It is also useful to compare and contrast the historical lack of media urgency about child deaths on the roads with the current hand-wringing over cyber bullying and the associated teen suicides.

sbsquarepants

2 words.
NO MOUNTAINS

DirkVoodoo

Dublin is not a hilly city to get around, the success of the Dublin bike scheme has showed that.

The problem is that many people still cling to their cars as the best way to get around, or as some kind of identity/status symbol.

I remember at school there was a teacher who cycled in every day, students used to ask why he couldn't afford a car. We still have the perception that bikes are for poor people and cars show you are a success. Must be a hangover from the Celtic Tiger, but I know people who will drive even a walking distance.

Granted, in parts of rural Ireland it just isn't that feasible to cycle everywhere.

Squidgy Black

Town isn't hilly, but the suburbs are, the Netherlands are flat like a pancake. Less of a social pressure to drive as well.

ford2600

Lots of social reasons, but also cycling is much cheaper. Every see a dutch person buy a round?

Morgan

Here's an interesting episode of The Bike Show covering Dutch cycling:

http://thebikeshow.net/what-it-really-means-to-go-dutch/

monument

To all those saying the Netherlands is flat --

This might be a reason for you or a reason in your mind why others don't cycle, but, at a population level, survey after survey ranks danger far, far higher a reason why more people don't cycle here.

Tails142

It's flat, hills are dangerous... dangeously tiring

hfallada

In Dublin in the 1950s a lot of people used to cycle everywhere. Look at a old photo of O Connell St. and there a ton of people on bikes but only a few on cars. But back then a majority of people living in the city only were really only 4/5kms from the city centre.

I went to School in Germany for 4 weeks and everyone in small towns cycle everywhere. Outside most shops is a proper bicycle rack( good luck finding a chain a bike to in Dublin 1). In the school there was space for over 300 bicycles in the yard and the basement had over 300 more sheltered from the rain. All footpaths have a lane for bicycles meaning you arent dodging trucks like in Dublin.

I would cycle to town more, but I find it hand to find a place to chain a bike. There is very few new bicycle racks to chain a bike to in Dublin. But yet there is more bikes than ever in it. Its a pity that DCC wouldnt replace some of the useless tiny grass strips in the city with places to park bicycles.

PerrDub

I would say Dublin is reasonably hilly in places...

Cycling around Dutch cities you hardly break a sweat it's so flat...

But to answer the OP's question... It's embedded in the culture over there, however don't be fooled, the Motoring lobby is still powerful and is always battling with the local government and cycling groups for more access to town/city centres and more controls on cyclists....

Chips Lovell

Dutch cycling numbers have always been very high when compared to other countries, even going back to the beginning of the 20th century.

So while stuff like Stop de Kindermoord that the BBC mentioned probably helped halt and reverse somewhat the slide in cycling numbers, they were coming off a much, much higher base than most other European countries.

Cyclepath

Dutch motorists don't appear to believe they have a superior right to use the road. In my experience cycling in the Netherlands (both rurally and in the city) cars and bikes have equal status. Motorists don't think they can blow their horn simply because a bike is in front of them, nor do they exhibit exaggerated responses to the slightest perceived mistake on the part of a cyclist.

It's about status and rights in the public mindset. The excellent infrastructure for cyclists reinforces this notion of equality for all road users.

DirkVoodoo

Where is Dublin hilly? Seriously, show me.

I cycled in Sydney last year, that is seriously hilly. Not so much long drags, but short sharp 20% type inclines. Those are seriously tiring when you are commuting. Long drags are not so bad: Foster's Avenue, etc. and can mostly be bypassed.

The city centre is as flat as a pancake.

monument

hfallada wrote: »

In Dublin in the 1950s a lot of people used to cycle everywhere. Look at a old photo of O Connell St. and there a ton of people on bikes but only a few on cars. But back then a majority of people living in the city only were really only 4/5kms from the city centre.

In 2006 almost 100,000 people in Dublin drove 4km or less to work!

We really have to get past the myth that the majority are now doing really long commutes.

EB_2013

They also cycle those old style dutch bikes which I hear rarely get nicked and they can leave them unlocked so that probably helps encourage a bit towards the high numbers cycling.

ford2600

EB_2013 wrote: »

They also cycle those old style dutch bikes which I hear rarely get nicked and they can leave them unlocked so that probably helps encourage a bit towards the high numbers cycling.

Bike theft in Amsterdam is mental

PerrDub

Maybe not hilly to someone like you Dirk...I meant more of an average commuter...

Anywhere West of D1, D2, parts of D4 is defo quicker one way than the other... I'm not saying it's San Franciso, but still, compared to a flat Dutch city there are plenty of places where your average commuter would have to use a lower gear...

PerrDub

ford2600 wrote: »

Bike theft in Amsterdam is mental

Yes... that's why everyone cycles those ancient old bikes, rarely will you ever see someone on a shiny new bike unless they are out training, defo not commuting on a modern hybrid bike

EB_2013

ford2600 wrote: »

Bike theft in Amsterdam is mental

Is it that bad? I thought that with so many bikes nobody would bother. Also the bikes are pretty basic.

Squidgy Black

DirkVoodoo wrote: »

Where is Dublin hilly? Seriously, show me.

I cycled in Sydney last year, that is seriously hilly. Not so much long drags, but short sharp 20% type inclines. Those are seriously tiring when you are commuting. Long drags are not so bad: Foster's Avenue, etc. and can mostly be bypassed.

The city centre is as flat as a pancake.

Majority of the northside as you head north from town isn't flat. The Malahide road, Swords road and Gracepark road are all a pain in the arse when you're cycling home full clothed after a days work.

Bike theft in Amsterdam is mental, much worse than over here.

Chips Lovell

ford2600 wrote: »

Bike theft in Amsterdam is mental

EB_2013 wrote: »

Is it that bad? I thought that with so many bikes nobody would bother. Also the bikes are pretty basic.

Over 100,000 bikes stolen in the Netherlands in 2011.

5,176 stolen in Ireland in 2011.

Those figures would needs to be weighted for population (16.6 million vs 4.6m million) and bike ownership levels

DirkVoodoo

stetyrrell wrote: »

Majority of the northside as you head north from town isn't flat. The Malahide road, Swords road and Gracepark road are all a pain in the arse when you're cycling home full clothed after a days work.

Bike theft in Amsterdam is mental, much worse than over here.

Yeah, but no one cycles on the northside, right?

I had to commute from Paddington to Mosman in Sydney 4-5 days per week. That was torture on a singlespeed, even a geared bike made it hard. Constantly up and down the whole way, very little flat if any.

Dublin is far easier by comparison, the hardest part is the wind here can be tough at times.

Squidgy Black

DirkVoodoo wrote: »

Yeah, but no one cycles on the northside, right?

It's all changing now, easier to get away from the Garda on our bikes now, and we get new bikes any time we visit Drury street.

monument

Vladimir Kurtains wrote: »

Dutch cycling numbers have always been very high when compared to other countries, even going back to the beginning of the 20th century.

So while stuff like Stop de Kindermoord that the BBC mentioned probably helped halt and reverse somewhat the slide in cycling numbers, they were coming off a much, much higher base than most other European countries.

I guess you're thinking or half thinking of this chart or one like it: http://mighkwilson.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/10/dutch-cycling-history.jpg

The numbers cycling in many cities in the Netherlands keeps rising -- some notable rises too.

In many ways the current Dutch cycling numbers are as or more impressive than figures from the 50s etc... As today they have on adverage far longer commutes, wide-spread access to cars and the likes of Amsterdam has metro lines and good rail services.

Across Ireland cycling has some hope of getting people out of cars while public transport can't be provided well in many of our cities, never mind towns. In Co Dublin cycling numbers could well reach bus user type modal share within the next decade - that should be a wake up call. So-far cycling paths and lanes are dismal but yet cycling share is climbing despite what's in the ground!

seamus

We should probably have gotten this out of the way earlier. Someone else can post the links:

Myths:

1. Dublin is too hilly (the elevation difference between two points inside the M50 boundary is rarely more than 0.5%, which is practically flat)
2. It rains too much in Dublin (rains more in Amsterdam)
3. Bike theft in Dublin is too big*
4. Commutes are too long (the majority of commutes are 10km or less)

Any others?

*Bike theft in Netherlands is also big, but a post here a while back suggested that there was a kind of pseudo-sharing scheme in operation. Go to a Dutch city and you will see hundreds, literally, of bikes parked at the side of the road unlocked. Etiquette if you find your bike has been stolen, is to simply take the closest bike to it which is unlocked and cycle off. Because there are so many bikes, bike theft basically becomes a non-problem because nobody is left without a bike. If you have a bike that you really want to hold onto, you either don't ride it into the city or you lock it

Squidgy Black

seamus wrote: »

We should probably have gotten this out of the way earlier. Someone else can post the links:

Myths:

1. Dublin is too hilly (the elevation difference between two points inside the M50 boundary is rarely more than 0.5%, which is practically flat)
2. It rains too much in Dublin (rains more in Amsterdam)
3. Bike theft in Dublin is too big*
4. Commutes are too long (the majority of commutes are 10km or less)

Any others?

*Bike theft in Netherlands is also big, but a post here a while back suggested that there was a kind of pseudo-sharing scheme in operation. Go to a Dutch city and you will see hundreds, literally, of bikes parked at the side of the road unlocked. Etiquette if you find your bike has been stolen, is to simply take the closest bike to it which is unlocked and cycle off. Because there are so many bikes, bike theft basically becomes a non-problem because nobody is left without a bike. If you have a bike that you really want to hold onto, you either don't ride it into the city or you lock it

Parts of the Malahide road hit 4% according to mapmyride. Amsterdam also has much better facilities for cyclists, with a lot of bike paths that aren't on roads, so the myth of cycling being extremely dangerous is non existent over there, in fact helmets are a rare commodity. Bike theft in Dublin isn't a problem if people just lock their bikes properly, how many posts in the Stolen Bikes thread have we seen that people are still using cheap cable locks and combo locks?

Iwannahurl

seamus wrote: »

We should probably have gotten this out of the way earlier. Someone else can post the links:

Myths:

1. Dublin is too hilly (the elevation difference between two points inside the M50 boundary is rarely more than 0.5%, which is practically flat)
2. It rains too much in Dublin (rains more in Amsterdam)
3. Bike theft in Dublin is too big*
4. Commutes are too long (the majority of commutes are 10km or less)

Any others?

*Bike theft in Netherlands is also big, but a post here a while back suggested that there was a kind of pseudo-sharing scheme in operation. Go to a Dutch city and you will see hundreds, literally, of bikes parked at the side of the road unlocked. Etiquette if you find your bike has been stolen, is to simply take the closest bike to it which is unlocked and cycle off. Because there are so many bikes, bike theft basically becomes a non-problem because nobody is left without a bike. If you have a bike that you really want to hold onto, you either don't ride it into the city or you lock it

Correct: topography is a red herring, imo.

For that to be a real causal factor you would have to see a consistent correlation in and between countries in terms of modal share for cycling versus 'hilliness'.

You'd also have to factor in time trends. The modal share for cycling in Ireland dropped inexorably over many years.

According to the CSO, close to 20,000 fewer people cycled to work in 2011 compared with 1986, when the number of cyclists was at its peak. The share of commuters cycling to work in 2006 was 2.4 per cent, as opposed to 7.2 per cent recorded in 1986.

With regard to children cycling the CSO says in its 2011 report on commuting patterns:

The number of secondary school students travelling to school on a bicycle has decreased from a peak of 50,648 in 1986 to 6,592 in 2011, a fall of 87 per cent. The decline in the number of girls using a bicycle has been particularly stark, falling from over 19,000 in 1986 to only 529 in 2011.

Likewise the proportion of Third Level students cycling to college dropped precipitously from around 25% in 1986 to 5% in 2006.

Did Ireland suddenly start to get hillier in the 70s and 80s? No, it was societal change that made the difference.

A point made earlier was that there was already a substantial number of cyclists in the Netherlands. They were, like Irish cyclists, put under serious pressure by mass motorisation, but in the Netherlands the civic and political response was clearly different.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XuBdf9jYj7o

enas

For those of you who think Dublin is too hilly, I'd like to see you cycle against those massive headwinds they get in the Netherlands. It's so flat that nothing stops it. And of course, that's on a heavy upright Dutch bike, no drop bars allowed...

f1dan

Has anybody mentioned the weather? Galway is the perfect city for making short commuter trips by bicycle but the wind and rain in the west would put off even the hardiest of folk.

dubrov

There is little doubt that a lot more people would cycle in Ireland if the cycling infrastructure was similar to the Netherlands.

The question is really why the infrastructure is so poor here compared to other countries.

Politicians in the past have generally been ant-cycling but they just reflect the views of the population that they serve.

My own personal opinion is that corruption in Irish politics over the years (especially the key period when cars became popular) has resulted in very little taxpayer money being spent on initiatives that generate a real benefit to the public but little profit for the state.

The poor cycling infrastructure here has led to a general public opinion that cycling is dangerous and unnecessary.

I do think opinions are beginning to change though as more and more people are starting to cycle and seeing the benefits for themselves.

Iwannahurl

f1dan wrote: »

Has anybody mentioned the weather? Galway is the perfect city for making short commuter trips by bicycle but the wind and rain in the west would put off even the hardiest of folk.

Was the weather responsible for the decline in cycling in the Netherlands up to the 1970s, and its subsequent revival? Did the wind and rain get substantially worse in Galway between 1986 and 2006?

dubrov wrote: »

There is little doubt that a lot more people would cycle in Ireland if the cycling infrastructure was similar to the Netherlands.

The question is really why the infrastructure is so poor here compared to other countries.

Politicians in the past have generally been ant-cycling but they just reflect the views of the population that they serve.

Of importance in this regard are the inter-related phenomena of path dependence, network effects, technological lock-in and institutional inertia, as recognised academically by economists and sociologists and at gut level by politicians.

In broad terms path dependence means that once particular decisions are made or innovations occur, certain outcomes are more likely down the line.

Networks effects (or network externalities) occur when increasing adoption of, for example, a technological innovation brings benefits to individuals using that technology. Telephones and the internet spring to mind. The more people use the technology the more infrastructure is created to service it, which makes using that technology more attractive.

Lock-in means that once a technology has been widely adopted it's costly and troublesome to switch to something new, even if the alternative is more efficient or otherwise preferable. The classic example often used is the QWERTY keyboard. Microsoft Windows might be another. Fossil fuel dependence is the biggest lock-in on the planet, perhaps, and a huge barrier when trying to prevent runaway climate change.

Institutional inertia is just a fancy term for group-think. Why did the civil engineers cross the road? Because that's what they did last year.

A huge technological, infrastructural, political and social apparatus was built up around private motorised transport in the 20th Century, with the result that we have become physically, psychologically and socially dependent on cars.

Car users benefit from being part of the huge drivers' club, and as the network effects increase so do the advantages of being a motorist. Urban areas are developed for vehicular access. Built-up areas spread out, and facilities and services are located in order to be readily accessible by car. For non-drivers it's the opposite. Pedestrians, cyclists and bus users are disadvantaged by the increased distances, general inaccessibility, sheer weight of traffic and the inadequacy of public transport services in conditions of inexorable sprawl. There is a thus strong incentive to join the car-owners' club. As the club increases in size more benefits accrue for the members, which exacerbates the disadvantages for non-members, who then seek to join the club. That's called the cycle of car dependence.

For many politicians it's just a numbers game: how many current voters are motorists, and how many are cyclists? I recall a local politician a few years ago dismissing objections to a highly questionable road "upgrade" because cyclists were a mere 3% of the population. The Councillors voted for this travesty at the time.

Cookie_Monster

ford2600 wrote: »

Bike theft in Amsterdam is mental

EB_2013 wrote: »

Is it that bad? I thought that with so many bikes nobody would bother. Also the bikes are pretty basic.

seamus wrote: »

*Bike theft in Netherlands is also big, but a post here a while back suggested that there was a kind of pseudo-sharing scheme in operation. Go to a Dutch city and you will see hundreds, literally, of bikes parked at the side of the road unlocked. Etiquette if you find your bike has been stolen, is to simply take the closest bike to it which is unlocked and cycle off. Because there are so many bikes, bike theft basically becomes a non-problem because nobody is left without a bike. If you have a bike that you really want to hold onto, you either don't ride it into the city or you lock it

As Seamus says this is what goes on. I was interested in it and asked the hotel owner about it the last time I was there. Combined with the "take a bike, leave a bike" system that operates the council and Rail company clear dozens of old bikes a day but it doesn't seem to make a dent of the numbers left around. You will not see nice road bikes though as they wouldn't last long, everyone seems to have the horrible upright ones for commuting.

The bike park at the main station is something to see, 2,500 spaces!

Suckfisher

Big one not seen mentioned here is they ahve proper bike lanes.

Maybe not i Amsterdam but most of the country.

The road will be at a higher level and a bike lane may run parallell to a canal ata lower level
no to going to hit parked car or fear for your life.

Bike theft is widespread bought many a bike of a junkie for 10 guilders in the late 90s in Utrecht

mossym

lived in the bay area for a few years. for anyone arguing that it's about hills, bike use in San Francisco is far higher than dublin. and i doubt anyone can reasonably argue that dublin is on par with san francisco for hills.

McTigs

f1dan wrote: »

Has anybody mentioned the weather? Galway is the perfect city for making short commuter trips by bicycle but the wind and rain in the west would put off even the hardiest of folk.

I cycle salthill to liosban (bout 2 miles) and back five days a week, 12 months of the year. It actually doesn't rain as much as you think.

And even in the worst weather i'd sooner be making that journey on the bike, i'd be half the day getting home otherwise.

monument

mossym wrote: »

lived in the bay area for a few years. for anyone arguing that it's about hills, bike use in San Francisco is far higher than dublin. and i doubt anyone can reasonably argue that dublin is on par with san francisco for hills.

Cycling modal share is around the same in both cities.

del_boy13

Another point that was made in that programme was that on average the Dutch spend £30 per capita on cycling infrastructure each year. In the UK it was around £2. Does anyone know what it is in Ireland?? Would guess its less than the UK

mossym

monument wrote: »

Cycling modal share is around the same in both cities.

could be, but most people in san fran don't own cars and cycle every day, i wonder how many of the cyclists lsited for dublin only cycle 1 or two days.

anyway, even if it's the same, to me it still negates the hills arguments. people are right .holland is flat. but Dublin doesn't have hills. san fran is an example that even if it did, it doesn't put people off. similar numbers, having to cope with these:

DirkVoodoo

And not a bike in sight

At home, the big arguments are:

1) I prefer driving
2) Not at my age
3) It's slow
4) It's sweaty
5) I'm not having more bikes in the house

And the big one: "It's too dangerous!"

I was quite pleased that my brother, the one who watches the Tour with me but mocks cycling the rest of the time, came back from inter-railing this summer and said they rented bikes to get around parts of Europe and that he now wanted a bike for college. I think this is part of the problem: We were never allowed cycle to school, my one moment of exposure to cycling was a class trip in secondary school where we cycled out to Wicklow and back on whatever mountain bike was kept in the garage. I enjoyed it, but the trip was cancelled after that because it was deemed "dangerous". After that, we always got lifts, car pooled and finally a private bus was organised by several parents in the area. A few people in my school cycled. Out of 600 I would say the number was probably less than 20, and most lived within 2km. No one is given the opportunity or the training to cycle in Dublin, so when you reach college and adulthood, cycling is almost an exotic, esoteric concept. Only poor people cycle, or hippies trying to save the planet. The big thing about turning 17 (at least where I came from) was learning to drive. Once you learn to drive, why bother cycling? It's dangerous!

I'd like to see more organisation at school level, I don't know how really, I'd imagine a large peloton of parents and children could be a little tricky to manage, but maybe the government could organise a "bike to school" program, get parents and kids on bikes together. I'd really love if my parents cycled and had introduced me to it, I'd imagine it's a fantastic thing to share with a child.

The only mention of cycling in School were those "wear high viz and lights" posters.

monument

mossym wrote: »

i wonder how many of the cyclists lsited for dublin only cycle 1 or two days.

Very few.

The main Dublin modal share figures are from the 2011 census and the cycling figures are only supposed to record commuters who use bicycles as their main mode of transport (ie those who drive three days and cycle two days are excluded, as are those who mainly travel on a bus or train and then cycle a shorter distance at one end of the trip, ie lots of DublinBike users).

Dublin actually seems to be somewhat above San Fran.... Co Dublin is at 5.1% while Dublin City is at 7.6%.

In San Fran in 2011, cycling was at 3.5% of "all trips" - different ranking than the census which records commuter trips, so not directly comparable.

What makes you think Dublin is lower than SF?

Image attached from the infograph in the centre of this: http://cyclingindublin.com/in-print/inprint-edition-2/

Seweryn

DirkVoodoo wrote: »

The only mention of cycling in School were those "wear high viz and lights helmet" posters.

Sad, but true...

Squidgy Black

San Francisco is actually grand for cycling, most people just use 'The Wiggle', which is a route which bypasses any major hills.

f1dan

McTigs wrote: »

I cycle salthill to liosban (bout 2 miles) and back five days a week, 12 months of the year. It actually doesn't rain as much as you think.

And even in the worst weather i'd sooner be making that journey on the bike, i'd be half the day getting home otherwise.

I cycle myself from Westside to Mervue every day. There is definitely a perception about the weather though cos it's the main reason why people I work with, who make shorter trips, all travel by car.

thebionicdude

Iwannahurl wrote: »

With regard to children cycling the CSO says in its 2011 report on commuting patterns:

The number of secondary school students travelling to school on a bicycle has decreased from a peak of 50,648 in 1986 to 6,592 in 2011, a fall of 87 per cent. The decline in the number of girls using a bicycle has been particularly stark, falling from over 19,000 in 1986 to only 529 in 2011.

Likewise the proportion of Third Level students cycling to college dropped precipitously from around 25% in 1986 to 5% in 2006.

Those stats are depressing.

Do you know are there also stats for walking, being driven to school and taking public transport for the same years to put these stats in greater perspective?

Ironically, the roads are less safe for children biking to school because parents insist on driving them, adding greatly to congestion.

In addition, one would think parents would want their kids to make their own way to places to save them the hassle. It's annoying to hear parents complain of being taxi-drivers for all their kids' activities.

We have developed a culture of worrying about the worst-case scenario. Before media/marketers could prey on our fears we weren't as worried about things. The fear of being an irresponsible parent must play on parents' minds greatly if they don't wish to school them in safely making their own way to class and home again when they are mature enough.

When one considers the distance involved in most commutes, there is little reason for people not to either walk, cycle or avail of public transport. The reason we don't owes to both bad habits and our perception of what is convenient. There are a lot of inconveniences associated with having a car but culturally these aren't challenged. People accept them the way we cyclists accept the inconvenience of small hills, wind and rain. People make the switch both ways, these are the people we need to hear from as their views are likely less entrenched.

It's up to people to make their own choices but it helps if they are informed ones as opposed to simply cultural ones. The idea that whole generations of kids don't discover the mobility and independence a bike gives them for free scares me greatly. Clearly, cyclists face serious headwinds in twenty years time in terms of public policy if cycling does become this esoteric thing, which it clearly is at risk of becoming.

Iwannahurl

thebionicdude wrote: »

Those stats are depressing.

Do you know are there also stats for walking, being driven to school and taking public transport for the same years to put these stats in greater perspective?

To depress you some more: http://www.cso.ie/en/census/

To cheer you up again: http://www.flickr.com/groups/dublincyclechic/

mossym

monument wrote: »

What makes you think Dublin is lower than SF?

nothing other than personal observation, always seemed to be much more cyclists on the roads in SF than I've seen in Dublin, but happy to stand corrected in the face of actual stats. my observation could be based on the quote below, greater concentration on some routes to avoid hills

stetyrrell wrote: »

San Francisco is actually grand for cycling, most people just use 'The Wiggle', which is a route which bypasses any major hills.

exactly, hills don't deter people, they just find routes around them if they want.

mossym

DirkVoodoo wrote: »

And not a bike in sight

At home, the big arguments are:

1) I prefer driving
2) Not at my age
3) It's slow
4) It's sweaty
5) I'm not having more bikes in the house

And the big one: "It's too dangerous!"

i'd accept any of those excuses over the hills argument any day