Another suicide linked to Ask.fm, what are ye opinions on this?

The Black Oil

Terribly sad, of course. At the moment, it is rather fashionable to attack the internet and social media for simply existing. I can't imagine any politician disagreeing with a parent who has been bereaved by suicide. However, a ban is not the answer. It will only shift the problem elsewhere.

I don't blame politicians and parents for not understanding the web if they didn't grow up with it - many can barely turn on a PC. But this is not a valid excuse, imo. You don't hear people going around saying 'well, I didn't check my son's school diary for the past 2 weeks, so I presumed he had no homework'. Not good enough, wake up. You have to educate yourself. Get your friend, brother, young cousin, neighbour to show you have to install appropriate tools on your family PC. Do a course. Get advise from the anti-bullying centre, or Webwise. Talk to the parents' association in your school, see if the school's IT co-ordinator has some advice.

A while ago there was someone proposing (school principal, I think) the idea of having a national helpline that schools could ring in the event of online bullying. Another stupid proposal, imo. Some solutions should stay local. A couple of staff members from different schools in one locality or region could get together and network to discuss the challenges and then inform senior staff or management about what might work. If a school doesn't have have an IT (acceptable use) policy, that's not good enough, really, and it should perhaps be updated to include social media. I'm aware that in some cases blocks are already in place (Youtube is often filtered out, for example) and I'm OK with that because I think you need some controls in place at a school level, in part to stop people wasting time online. Don't get me wrong, I recognise that a lot of this goes on outside of school time, and I get the 'hook' of why people like to stay anonymous, but cracking down on that is short sighted. I also appreciate why people are reluctant to talk about being attacked online, and then how this might spiral into depression.

Instead of banning we should:

- Teach resilience skills to young people. This should not just fall to teachers, and will hopefully stand to the kids when they grow into adults
- Deliver better mental health awareness in schools
- If we tell kids not to cross the road without looking both ways then can't we have them have some sort of mental filter for using the web? Green, go ahead, red - I'm being trolled/abuse - therefore, disengage, do not respond. Report, delete.
- Ensure Wheaton's law is more well-known

Liamario

If you're going to blame ask.fm, you might as well blame the Internet as well.

Parents should pay more attention to what their kids are doing online and if they don't know how it all works, they should bloody find out.

KwackerJack

Its not the sites fault and a person could just not log on BUT

The owners/management of that site have an obligation to make sure that bullying,threat's or and abuse are removed asap and if necessary the ip address blocked and reported!

There is no point in saying the parents blaa blaa..... Every heat of internet cafes and wifi enabled mobiles?

a0ifee

I think the pull from these websites is that people hope they'll get messages like "I've a crush on you"/"you're so pretty" etc unfortunately it's the opposite in most cases. people like to talk about themselves and its the interview likeness and the curiousty of what you might get asked that draws you to the website

I don't think ask.fm should be shut down. there are other places people can receive abuse on the internet, and I guarantee that if ask.fm were to close, a copycat would be up in five minutes. But really I think schools should make more of an effort of teaching about the effects of cyber bullying and stuff like that. everytime we've been taught, it's always felt very outdated, pictures of girls getting texts on phones from 2003 saying UR DEAD etc. so no one takes it seriously its a bit of a joke lesson. people should be made more aware of the internet, we use it everyday but I don't think a lot of people realise the extent of it

Femme_Fatale

The Black Oil wrote: »

At the moment, it is rather fashionable to attack the internet and social media for simply existing.

It's also fashionable to victim-blame. It's stupid for anyone to want to shut down Ask.fm, that's obviously not going to solve anything and it's not fair on those who use the site just for a bit of fun, but it can't be allowing people to get away with harassment on it.

gobnaitolunacy

up for anything wrote: »

I don't understand why kids set up ask.fm accounts.

They're young, stupid and think they know better. We've all been there.

Kid told smoking is bad, goes smoking with mates at the back of the bike shed.
Kid told drinking is bad, tries it anyway.
Don't swim in the canal/river/quarry...you get the picture.

SweepTheLeg

gobnaitolunacy wrote: »

They're young, stupid and think they know better. We've all been there.

Kid told smoking is bad, goes smoking with mates at the back of the bike shed.
Kid told drinking is bad, tries it anyway.
Don't swim in the canal/river/quarry...you get the picture.

Not the same thing, I'm sure they are having a great time drinking, smoking with their friends. That's why they carry on doing it.

But why keep going back to a website that's just people abusing you and upsetting you.

gobnaitolunacy

SweepTheLeg wrote: »

Not the same thing, I'm sure they are having a great time drinking, smoking with their friends. That's why they carry on doing it.

But why keep going back to a website that's just people abusing you and upsetting you.

Doesn't necessarily follow EVERYONE on ask.fm gets bullied.

The popular kids garner the kudos, the less popular ones get targeted.

If you're not on it, you may be seen as being a loser and not 'with it' anyway.

IMHO it's a rather pointless site anyway, though I suppose the addictive part is like the kid version of sending/checking tweets/facebook profiles every 10 mins.

BeerWolf

Hannah’s father, David Smith, said those who run the website should face murder or manslaughter charges and called for more regulation of social networking sites.

This father needs to get real, as tragic as it is that his daughter committed suicide... in NO WAY was the site responsible of other people's actions...

jayobray

Poison pen letters have existed for many years, doesn't mean that An Post or the Royal Mail should be shut down because they deliver them

Judgement Day

Despite being a well traveled internet user I'd never heard of Ask.fm until yesterday -That said, I do have an aversion to social media despite having three Facebook accounts! Anyway, having taken a quick look at it last night, it will be yet another site - including Facebook - which I will discourage my kids from having anything to do with. A site full of **** slagging off each and everybody - like a trailer trash version of the comment page on Yahoo and that's really saying something.

Plazaman

Reminds me of the time Napster was shut down and the next day there was an exact copy of the site set up under a new name. If on the off chance that the internet campaigns get Ask.fm to shut, I'd give it less than a week before there'd be a million kids with new accounts open on a mirror site.

Since I am not a teenage girl, I do not understand the compulsion to remain on a website where you get blasted with abusive comments most days. A daughter of my friend has been subjected to abuse but yet continues to use the site.

From a quick look at the site and reading the news articles about it (I can't seem to locate the one I read but this item is similar where a reporter poses as a teen) the tormentors/trolls seem to post the same insults, multiple times whether or not the know the account holder. I suppose the only modicum of power that a spotty frustrated 14 year old boy has locked in his room, is his keyboard warrior antics to calls girls fat, ugly and tell them to kill themselves.

I think also the fact that these type of comments have been highly publicised in the press because of the tragedies of these teen girls deaths, it is unfortunately fuelling more such comments to the extent that they will be par for the course in the near future.

Amirani

Femme_Fatale wrote: »

It's also fashionable to victim-blame. It's stupid for anyone to want to shut down Ask.fm, that's obviously not going to solve anything and it's not fair on those who use the site just for a bit of fun, but it can't be allowing people to get away with harassment on it.

Yeah, this is essentially my view on the matter.

I'm all for "free-speech" in the sense that you should have the ability to say what you want, in terms of the platforms available. However, there is and should be consequences for things that you say.

In this case, Ask.fm is obviously a service that many people enjoy using and that many people use as intended. If there's widespread abuse being perpetrated on the site then people should be putting pressure on the owners to curtail that abuse or else switch to similar platforms. I'm not just talking about the victims either, impartial observers should be putting pressure on. The obvious boards comparison is the report posts function, which I use far more for reporting abuse against others than abuse against myself.

In short, shutting down Ask.fm is a stupid solution. Better to pressure the site owners by either contacting them about abuse or taking your business elsewhere. There is and should continue to be support avenues in place for victims of online bullying.

Amirani

Judgement Day wrote: »

Despite being a well traveled internet user I'd never heard of Ask.fm until yesterday -That said, I do have an aversion to social media despite having three Facebook accounts! Anyway, having taken a quick look at it last night, it will be yet another site - including Facebook - which I will discourage my kids from having anything to do with. A site full of **** slagging off each and everybody - like a trailer trash version of the comment page on Yahoo and that's really saying something.

I'm the same really. I spend a minimum of 8-10 hours a day on the internet between work/college and other stuff and hadn't heard of it until these suicide cases started coming up. I really don't get the appeal in using them, particularly if you're getting harassed.

JustAThought

It's hard to imagine the upset & trauma of a child sitting watching someone typing their horrible spiteful sentences & sending them out for all the victims friends & school to see. It's natural for people to try and respond to defend themselves - this fuels the spite fullness & things get worse & worse . I remember school & the ones that would pick on others -the snide comments & spiteful remarks . Can you imagine how bad that could be when it's not a few local listeners that hear it, but the whole year/school .

No, you can't bar the Internet & the deeply disturbing moves the government are making to censor the Internet here & broadcasters is deeply worrying . The Broadcast Authority of Ireland edict which has already gome out to ALL radio stations forbidding broadcasters on radio to make comments on subjects " of interest" under threat of the station loosing their license has already this year (2013) been brought in . This was done by a government appointed committee of politicians & their appointed colleagues . This is one of the most sinister & dark moves by a government in ' modern' Europe since Hitler did something similar in the 1938's. Russia has such laws. And Korea. And China. And now Ireland.

the govt now has stated that it wants to censor comments on online journal /news sites -the Internet & social media - and we think this is not political censorship ? . It's a dark & distrusting trend. Bad alone that RTE is the/ANY governments official PR agency with barely any impartiality or political integrity.

Barring sites -no. But why has this site not brought in stricter policy measures since the last terrible double tragedy? Cost - legal liability - you can be sure its that.
You wont change that worldwide.
Not to take from the terrible situation, parents often can't & dont know what their teens are up to.
But in the name of God where is the parental controls & at least a basic into every household guide on it . Lots of parents simply don't know or realise. We could go it for " nuclear threat" a few years ago & iodine tablets. A few million - lets see some spend there on protecting children and informing people who may not know otherwise or understand how to do it.

Let's also see regular civil & social & anti bullying programmes & education programmes in schools. It's about prioritising building a society with a common foundation of respect and values.


Those poor parents & that poor girl. Nightmare.

ash23

I asked my niece why she bothered with askfm when it is so unbelievably hateful. Her logic (all 14 years of her) was that the nice things that were said made her feel good. I pointed out that for every bad thing she was told about herself it would probably take 100 nice things to make up for it and that just isn't happening.

Fact is that telling kids (and yes, they are kids) not to go on askfm is like asking Dougal not to push the big red button. We were all at it when we were kids. From writing notes to asking friends "did he say anything about me?".

Kids, teens especially, tend to be insecure and hold the opinion of others in high regard. I don't think that the "I don't give a fupp what anyone thinks of me" comes until a later age.
Teens I think care more about what their peers think than their family and their self esteem can be torn asunder easily enough. Add to that the gang mentality, where one person can be ostracised and turned against by one person who in turn can sway most of the school/class/group to do the same and you're left with very fragile children, thinking everyone hates them and having it reaffirmed 24/7.

I can't understand why these little trolls on sites like askfm are not having their IPs blocked etc.

Also, internet safety is a minefield. I've a ten year old who signed up to some virtual world which is aimed at children. And she was told to f-off, that she was a fat cow and a b!tch by some random person who she simply said "hi" to.
I reported said little fecker and their account was deleted and an email sent to the "parents" address.

Amirani

ash23 wrote: »

I asked my niece why she bothered with askfm when it is so unbelievably hateful. Her logic (all 14 years of her) was that the nice things that were said made her feel good. I pointed out that for every bad thing she was told about herself it would probably take 100 nice things to make up for it and that just isn't happening.

Fact is that telling kids (and yes, they are kids) not to go on askfm is like asking Dougal not to push the big red button/ We were all at in when we were kids. From writing notes to asking friends "did he say anything about me?".

Kids, teens especially, tend to be insecure and hold the opinion of others in high regard. I don't think that the "I don't give a fupp what anyone thinks of me" comes until a later age.
Teens I think care more about what their peers think than their family and their self esteem can be torn asunder easily enough. Add to that the gang mentality, where one person can be ostracised and turned against by one person who in turn can sway most of the school/class/group to do the same and you're left with very fragile children, thinking everyone hates them and having it reaffirmed 24/7.

Very true.

Roger_007

If the offensive material was written as graffiti on a wall, would we blame the wall or the owner of the wall?

Amirani

Roger_007 wrote: »

If the offensive material was written as graffiti on a wall, would we blame the wall or the owner of the wall?

Neither, the person who wrote the graffiti.

hoodwinked

ash23 wrote: »

I asked my niece why she bothered with askfm when it is so unbelievably hateful. Her logic (all 14 years of her) was that the nice things that were said made her feel good. I pointed out that for every bad thing she was told about herself it would probably take 100 nice things to make up for it and that just isn't happening.

Fact is that telling kids (and yes, they are kids) not to go on askfm is like asking Dougal not to push the big red button/ We were all at in when we were kids. From writing notes to asking friends "did he say anything about me?".

Kids, teens especially, tend to be insecure and hold the opinion of others in high regard. I don't think that the "I don't give a fupp what anyone thinks of me" comes until a later age.
Teens I think care more about what their peers think than their family and their self esteem can be torn asunder easily enough. Add to that the gang mentality, where one person can be ostracised and turned against by one person who in turn can sway most of the school/class/group to do the same and you're left with very fragile children, thinking everyone hates them and having it reaffirmed 24/7.

i cannot agree wit this more!

ash23 wrote: »

I can't understand why these little trolls on sites like askfm are not having their IPs blocked etc.

Also, internet safety is a minefield. I've a ten year old who signed up to some virtual world which is aimed at children. And she was told to f-off, that she was a fat cow and a b!tch by some random person who she simply said "hi" to.
I reported said little fecker and their account was deleted and an email sent to the "parents" address.

thats how this should be handled a simple report button that even if you don't know who posted it that the site admins do, its a much more sensible option than just "shut down the site"

The Black Oil

The Black Oil wrote: »

- Teach resilience skills to young people. This should not just fall to teachers, and will hopefully stand to the kids when they grow into adults
- Deliver better mental health awareness in schools
- If we tell kids not to cross the road without looking both ways then can't we have them have some sort of mental filter for using the web? Green, go ahead, red - I'm being trolled/abuse - therefore, disengage, do not respond. Report, delete.
- Ensure Wheaton's law is more well-known

This times a billion. It's absolutely ludicrous that people are even discussing banning things on the internet. There has always been bullies and there always will be bullies. Teenagers committing suicide isn't anything new - but now we have a chance to change it. But unfortunately society won't make the steps it should and instead just ban everything. This won't solve anything. The internet is incredibly hard to police and this isn't going to change any time soon.

mrsbyrne

No emotionally healthy happy teenager was ever bullied at 3 oclock and committed suicide at half past three.
Your teenager had to be behaving differently, quiet, withdrawn, teary even moodier then ever.
We parents cant keep glancing at our kids and saying "oh its just teenage hormones. leave well enough alone" and go back to watching Coronation Street.
Your teenagers mental health is your resonsibility. Not the States. or Ask.fms
My daughter doesnt like me being "all up in her business" but, sorry, i am. Shes 16 her business is my business. Shes sending me to an early grave and ive gone totally grey but i intend to keep fighting on.
If these poor girls had been bullied by text message would there be calls for Vodafone to be shut down?

hoodwinked

mrsbyrne wrote: »

No emotionally healthy happy teenager was ever bullied at 3 oclock and committed suicide at half past three.
Your teenager had to be behaving differently, quiet, withdrawn, teary even moodier then ever.
We parents cant keep glancing at our kids and saying "oh its just teenage hormones. leave well enough alone" and go back to watching Coronation Street.
Your teenagers mental health is your resonsibility. Not the States. or Ask.fms
My daughter doesnt like me being "all up in her business" but, sorry, i am. Shes 16 her business is my business. Shes sending me to an early grave and ive gone totally grey but i intend to keep fighting on.
If these poor girls had been bullied by text message would there be calls for Vodafone to be shut down?

this is the bottom line, i think too many parents start seeing their children as fully grown adults at 15-17 when in fact they are vulnerable teenagers acting like fully grown adults,

they need re-assurance and support, and parenting (even when they rebel against it).

ash23

How many adults commit suicide without their partners or families or colleagues knowing what is going on?

I think it's really unfair to assume that a teenager who is depressed is going to be moping around and the parents will automatically know something is wrong. Suicide is really complex.

mrsbyrne wrote: »

Your teenagers mental health is your resonsibility. Not the States. or Ask.fms
?

Also, even when the parents do notice something and seek help, have you any idea how crap the mental health services are in this country?
Saying the state don't have any role is ridiculous. Unless the parents are qualified therapists then the state absolutely have a role and an obligation to our young people with mental health issues.

Isn't it also impossible to take down ask.fm? If I recall correctly, their server is based in another country? I could be wrong. If that's the case, then it depends on that specific country's laws and regulations. It's why a few years back where there were complaints about racist remarks made from the white supremacist website, Stormfront, about a contestant at the Rose of Tralee, but it couldn't be shut down because of the country their server was located in.

You can get the ISPs to block it, sure, but I can't see why they would.

Just did a quick check; ask.fm is based in Latvia, so I would assume that's where their server is based too.

And to add - instead of wasting money on blocking sites and other witchhunts, the government should invest money in producing pamphlets/websites/whatever else, teaching parents how to correctly monitor their children's online presence and also how to keep them safe online.

Mike 1972

When a kid suicides because they were bullied at school we dont close down the school.

hoodwinked

ash23 wrote: »

Also, even when the parents do notice something and seek help, have you any idea how crap the mental health services are in this country?
Saying the state don't have any role is ridiculous. Unless the parents are qualified therapists then the state absolutely have a role and an obligation to our young people with mental health issues.

they aren't as crap as you think, they are just a bit over loaded but once you are in they are exceptionally helpful, the state isn't going to notice if your child needs help, the only cases they become aware of is when hospitalisation is required, so then it is up to the parents to notice before something happens, they are the only ones around the child on a daily basis


surely if you have an open communication with your child you would notice something is amiss anyway?

mrsbyrne

ash23 wrote: »

How many adults commit suicide without their partners or families or colleagues knowing what is going on?

I think it's really unfair to assume that a teenager who is depressed is going to be moping around and the parents will automatically know something is wrong. Suicide is really complex.



Also, even when the parents do notice something and seek help, have you any idea how crap the mental health services are in this country?
Saying the state don't have any role is ridiculous. Unless the parents are qualified therapists then the state absolutely have a role and an obligation to our young people with mental health issues.

The teenager may not be moping around but their will definitely be a change in behaviour.
Likewise, if it is your teenager who is the vile little b***ix posting this venom it is that childs parents that are to blame, not two Latvian blokes.
The State have a duty to provide mental health services to all its citizens.
But it is the childs parents who have to take responsibility for seeing that their child is looked after. It is the childs parents who are responsible for observing their child and looking after their child and supervising their child. Its a recent phenomena that many parents are delegating the responsibility to the school and the health service and the state in general. "its not my fault the system let me down". "theres nothing for kids to do around here" " you cant watch them 24/7". Rubbish. There has been a steady erosion of personal responsibility in Ireland which is leading us deeper and deeper into the catastrophe.
Parenting teenagers is very hard today. Its actually alot of hard work. But it has to be done and it has to be done by the parent of the teenager.

ash23

hoodwinked wrote: »

they aren't as crap as you think, they are just a bit over loaded but once you are in they are exceptionally helpful, the state isn't going to notice if your child needs help, the only cases they become aware of is when hospitalisation is required, so then it is up to the parents to notice before something happens, they are the only ones around the child on a daily basis

surely if you have an open communication with your child you would notice something is amiss anyway?

Once you are in is the key word. I know of a teen family member who was waiting for an assessment for over 6 months and is still waiting for counselling many months later. Like any of these services, once you're in, yeah great. But how long will it take?

So the parents are aware their child is depressed, is being bullied and is failing in school, miserable and self harming.......and there is nothing that they can do about it but wait for an appointment?

So not every child will show signs of depression. Some do a great job at hiding it from their families. As do many adults.

And then when the person does open up and look for help or the parent does look for help, they get put on a waiting list unless they actually attempt suicide.
The state don't prioritise mental health services unfortunately. That is what I mean when I say they have an obligation.

ash23

Another failing of the state is when the parents go to the school about the bullying and the school don't act on it. Which also happens. Not as common now as it used to be but that is also another obligation of the state. To keep kids safe while they are in our schools.