What happens if I dont pay a medical bill ?

Jumboman

I was in a private hospital last week I had few medical tests done to try and find the cause of the health issue I have, I payed for all the tests but I got a bill today for 200euro for a "consultation" I had with a consultant.

I only spoke to the consultant for about 5 minutes he told me he was not able to find the cause of the illness I have.

Anyway I find it extortion that I'm been asked to pay 200euro for a 5 minute "consultation" and he is not even able to find the cause of my illness.

I'm wondering what will happen if I dont pay this money will I end up in court ?

I dont see why I should pay for a service I'm not happy with. I'd gladly stand up in court and say I dont want to pay the bill because he has not helped me or found the cause of my illness If i spoke to him for 30 minutes than the 200euro could be justified but not 5 minutes. This to me isnt much better than a scam.

RobFowl

You pay for the consultants time and expertise. Presumably you were aware of the charge before you went and could have chosen not to go.
Most now send bad debts to debt collection agencies so if you don't pay up expect numerous letters, visits possible court appearances and a mark on your credit rating.


Edit €200 is taking the p*ss

shamrock55

Op i wouldnt pay either thats a disgrace, if you were told the cause of your problem you wouldnt mind the lack of time, these consultants get payed far too much money anyway its crazy

Vorsprung

If you had an issue with your car and ended up going to a few mechanics, with the problem only sorted by say the 3rd mechanic, would you not pay the first 2 because they couldn't figure it out?

aaakev

RobFowl wrote: »

You pay for the consultants time and expertise. Presumably you were aware of the charge before you went and could have chosen not to go.

Thats a pretty big assumption... Iv been in that situation where i got an unexpected bill for the same thing, didnt pay and sorted it out over the phone. I was not told i had to pay for having a chat with someone so i sure as hell was not going to pay afterwards!

El_Dangeroso

Vorsprung wrote: »

If you had an issue with your car and ended up going to a few mechanics, with the problem only sorted by say the 3rd mechanic, would you not pay the first 2 because they couldn't figure it out?

Most mechanics don't charge you if they don't fix the problem

OP you'll have to pay unless you want it to affect your credit rating. Although I agree 200 euro for 5 minutes and no benefit is a complete rip-off.

RobFowl

aaakev wrote: »

Thats a pretty big assumption... Iv been in that situation where i got an unexpected bill for the same thing, didnt pay and sorted it out over the phone. I was not told i had to pay for having a chat with someone so i sure as hell was not going to pay afterwards!

OP stated it was a private hospital. Would have been free if public.
All the consultants I know make people aware of the charge in advance.

aaakev

RobFowl wrote: »

OP stated it was a private hospital. Would have been free if public.
All the consultants I know make people aware of the charge in advance.

I had a minor procedure last year, 9 months wait for public or 3 weeks private at a cost of €1,200. I went private and was called back after for a quick checkup with the surgon/ consultant, no mention of an extra charge for this and he said he just wanted to check how it healed. Got a bill for about €250 a week later! I called and refused to pay it because i could have gone to my gp for this at a fifth of the cost. They agreed to leave it at that

Jumboman

Vorsprung wrote: »

If you had an issue with your car and ended up going to a few mechanics, with the problem only sorted by say the 3rd mechanic, would you not pay the first 2 because they couldn't figure it out?

Well if you payed a mechanic to do a number of tests on your car then at end of it he has a 5 minute "consultation" with you telling you he cant find the cause of the problem, you then get hit by a bill for 200euro for this "consultation" which is on top of the other bills you have already payed to have him look at the car, would you not think this is a compete rip off bordering on a scam ?

Anthony16

If it ends up in court you will definitely lose and will have to pay your solicitors fees as well as the solicitors fees of the person suing you(the hospital i assume) plus any interest which may have built up on the bill. Best thing is to pay the money and move on

Squiggle

Jumboman wrote: »

I was in a private hospital last week I had few medical tests done to try and find the cause of the health issue I have, I payed for all the tests but I got a bill today for 200euro for a "consultation" I had with a consultant.

I only spoke to the consultant for about 5 minutes he told me he was not able to find the cause of the illness I have.

Anyway I find it extortion that I'm been asked to pay 200euro for a 5 minute "consultation" and he is not even able to find the cause of my illness.

I'm wondering what will happen if I dont pay this money will I end up in court ?

I dont see why I should pay for a service I'm not happy with. I'd gladly stand up in court and say I dont want to pay the bill because he has not helped me or found the cause of my illness If i spoke to him for 30 minutes than the 200euro could be justified but not 5 minutes. This to me isnt much better than a scam.

Did you not get a letter from the consultant with details of your appointment and his consultation fee? Who ordered the tests?

0lddog

Some time ago, in my day job, we did a small amount of work for a consultant in a south Dublin private clinic ( to support some new test gizmo that he had got for his consulting room ) .

When all was complete and working he refused to pay. ( saying that he had not asked us to do the work ! ).

Having a medical degree and being a right chancer are not mutually exclusive

Vorsprung

El_Dangeroso wrote: »

Most mechanics don't charge you if they don't fix the problem

Can I have the number of your mechanic??

The issue isn't the price, I'm not exactly a fan of private medicine but the fact that it is so prevelant is due to an ineffective public system (a rant for another day).

If it came to legal proceedings, I can't imagine that the case would be found in your favour, regardless of the ethics behind it.

Jumboman

Squiggle wrote: »

Did you not get a letter from the consultant with details of your appointment and his consultation fee? Who ordered the tests?

I was told I would have a consultation but I expected it would be in his office and last atleast 30mins like the last time I saw him I spoke to him for the best part of an hour.
I dont consider it a "consultation" coming to talk to me for 5mins just after he has done tests on me.

Jumboman

Vorsprung wrote: »

Can I have the number of your mechanic??

The issue isn't the price, I'm not exactly a fan of private medicine but the fact that it is so prevelant is due to an ineffective public system (a rant for another day).

If it came to legal proceedings, I can't imagine that the case would be found in your favour, regardless of the ethics behind it.

Would they really bring me to court for 200euro ? If it does go to court it could create a lot of bad publicity for the doctor in question.

Vorsprung

Jumboman wrote: »

Would they really bring me to court for 200euro ? If it does go to court it could create a lot of bad publicity for the doctor in question.

Haven't a clue! They all cost about 150-200 for a consult anyway!

Agnieszka_88

Jumboman wrote: »

Would they really bring me to court for 200euro ? If it does go to court it could create a lot of bad publicity for the doctor in question.

Only if the media pick up your story. You have no guarantee that they will, 200e is not enough money for the big media players and small newspapers get overlooked.

To be honest, I don't think they'd bring you to court. They'll probably sell your debt to a private debt company and they will wait it out until interest grows and then they will make sure that you pay it all back.

Make an official complaint to whoever is responsible for the billables in that hospital, send them a letter. If they decide you should pay the fee after looking into it, do it.

Jumboman

Agnieszka_88 wrote: »

They'll probably sell your debt to a private debt company and they will wait it out until interest grows and then they will make sure that you pay it all back.

Would they use violence to try and get the money back ?

If a private company came looking for money I would just tell them any issue over unpaid debt is between me and the doctor in question and has nothing what soever to do with them.

Murt10

Agnieszka_88 wrote: »

Only if the media pick up your story. You have no guarantee that they will, 200e is not enough money for the big media players and small newspapers get overlooked.

To be honest, I don't think they'd bring you to court. They'll probably sell your debt to a private debt company and they will wait it out until interest grows and then they will make sure that you pay it all back.

They cannot charge interest until it goes to court. Also I am sure that Boards members would be willing to email a few journalists and ask them to cover the case.

The embarrassment for the consultant to have to stand in court and say"I'm earning C200,000+ pa for my public work, plus whatever I can screw out of my private patients (which is a lot). I ordered tests which he paid for. I still don't know what is wrong with this man. Now I want my E200 for my consultation, (despite the fact, that by definition I must have ordered the wrong tests)"

I'd nearly take a 1/2 day off to go to that case myself

Anthony16

It doesnt matter what the person is earning. The fact is you paid for a service(a consultation,albeit a brief one) and are now refusing to pay. Was there anybody in the consultation room with you?Its your word against his I guess.
Now,do I think they will actually go after u for it?I doubt it.U will receive a letter in the post from their solicitor giving u a final chance to pay if they pursue it.
However,if u get that letter then I would pay at that stage as they can screw u with interest and sometimes attach it to any of your assets so that when u transfer it over to your children/nieces/nephews they will have to pick up the tab.The latter has happened in my area albeit over a bill of 1500euro

Murt10 wrote: »

They cannot charge interest until it goes to court. Also I am sure that Boards members would be willing to email a few journalists and ask them to cover the case.

The embarrassment for the consultant to have to stand in court and say"I'm earning C200,000+ pa for my public work, plus whatever I can screw out of my private patients (which is a lot). I ordered tests which he paid for. I still don't know what is wrong with this man. Now I want my E200 for my consultation, (despite the fact, that by definition I must have ordered the wrong tests)"

I'd nearly take a 1/2 day off to go to that case myself

Jumboman

Anthony16 wrote: »

Was there anybody in the consultation room with you?Its your word against his I guess.

Yes the nurse waited outside the room when the doctor came in to talk to me.

However,if u get that letter then I would pay at that stage as they can screw u with interest and sometimes attach it to any of your assets so that when u transfer it over to your children/nieces/nephews they will have to pick up the tab.The latter has happened in my area albeit over a bill of 1500euro

I dont have much money but if I wanted to give my money to someone I'd just give them cash, their is no way they could trace where the money has gone.

RobFowl

Murt10 wrote: »

They cannot charge interest until it goes to court. Also I am sure that Boards members would be willing to email a few journalists and ask them to cover the case.

The embarrassment for the consultant to have to stand in court and say"I'm earning C200,000+ pa for my public work, plus whatever I can screw out of my private patients (which is a lot). I ordered tests which he paid for. I still don't know what is wrong with this man. Now I want my E200 for my consultation, (despite the fact, that by definition I must have ordered the wrong tests)"

I'd nearly take a 1/2 day off to go to that case myself

Just because the tests di not confirm a diagnosis does not mean they were the wrong tests. Thats just nonsense. Excluding certain conditions is as important as diagnosing them at times.

Bottom line is that in private healthcare you have to pay to see a doctor. If you want to pay only for results you're happy with then by all means find a doctor willing to go along with that.

Generally the consultant won't bring you to court but offload the debt to a debt collection agency who certainly will....

Squiggle

Jumboman wrote: »

I was told I would have a consultation but I expected it would be in his office and last atleast 30mins like the last time I saw him I spoke to him for the best part of an hour.
I dont consider it a "consultation" coming to talk to me for 5mins just after he has done tests on me.

AFAIK a consultant has a set fee for a consultation regardless of whether it takes 5 mins, 10 mins or 25 mins. Did he charge you more for the " best part of an hour appointment " ? You accepted the appointment and I'd be surprised if you weren't advised of the fee in the appointment letter so you are liable. An appointment doesn't come with the proviso that the consultant will spend a certain length of time with you. That aside I don't think that a debt of €200 will be litigated in court. It will probably be passed to a debt collector who, BTW, must act within the law ! They can't harass you or threaten you in any way. Call the guards immediately if they do. The only way they can legally get the money from you is through the courts.

Jumboman

Squiggle wrote: »

AFAIK a consultant has a set fee for a consultation regardless of whether it takes 5 mins, 10 mins or 25 mins. Did he charge you more for the " best part of an hour appointment " ? You accepted the appointment and I'd be surprised if you weren't advised of the fee in the appointment letter so you are liable. An appointment doesn't come with the proviso that the consultant will spend a certain length of time with you. That aside I don't think that a debt of €200 will be litigated in court. It will probably be passed to a debt collector who, BTW, must act within the law ! They can't harass you or threaten you in any way. Call the guards immediately if they do. The only way they can legally get the money from you is through the courts.

Another problem I have with this "consultation" is that I had just been given an anesthetic and I was not in a fit state to properly communicate with him.

dissed doc

You feel bad because you got the advice of an experienced medical specialist without paying for it.

Dr Turk Turkelton

dissed doc wrote: »

You feel bad because you got the advice of an experienced medical specialist without paying for it.

The experienced medical specialist doesn't seem to be that experienced in medicine if he can't come up with an answer for the op!

Also private debt collection agencies have no legal standing in Ireland-just bin their letters with nothing to worry about or hang up the phone.

dissed doc

Cuchulainn1. wrote: »

The experienced medical specialist doesn't seem to be that experienced in medicine if he can't come up with an answer for the op!

Also private debt collection agencies have no legal standing in Ireland-just bin their letters with nothing to worry about or hang up the phone.

Doesn't matter. YOu want a specialist opinion, you have to pay for it. That goes for plumbers, hairdressers, or doctors.

beeno67

You may not need to pay this but thread carefully and don't go in with all guns blazing. You had a test that required sedation/anaesthetic. If you had health insurance the fee for the test would include all pre and post procedure care which would include consultation with the consultant (assuming he was the one doing the test). Therefore as he would be unable to charge you if you had health insurance it would be difficult for him to argue he can charge you just because you don't. Often these bills are simply sent out by the secretary without the consultants explicit knowledge. Don't ignore the bill. Phone the consultants secretary and discuss it in a calm manner. It may be easily sorted.

beeno67

aaakev wrote: »

I had a minor procedure last year, 9 months wait for public or 3 weeks private at a cost of €1,200. I went private and was called back after for a quick checkup with the surgon/ consultant, no mention of an extra charge for this and he said he just wanted to check how it healed. Got a bill for about €250 a week later! I called and refused to pay it because i could have gone to my gp for this at a fifth of the cost. They agreed to leave it at that

Just on this and as follow up to my previous post. If you have a procedure performed it includes all pre and post op care. Many consultants after surgery will tell you to attend your GP for removal of stitches or change of dressings. However you will obviously have to pay the GP. You can elect to return to the consultant who must remove the stitches or change dressings for free (I.e. you have already paid for it). You may be happy for the convenience of going to your GP and be willing to pay for this. If you are not simply return to the consultant and refuse to accept any nonsense that they will have to charge you.

Dr Turk Turkelton

dissed doc wrote: »

Doesn't matter. YOu want a specialist opinion, you have to pay for it. That goes for plumbers, hairdressers, or doctors.

Sorry but people who live in the real world do not charge a fee for spending five minutes telling you that they cant find a problem after getting paid to find said problem in the first place.

If I was a plumbing specialist and I couldn't find the cause of someones heating problem I would be embarrassed not charging them again.

"Specialist" my ass.

Alun

Cuchulainn1. wrote: »

Sorry but people who live in the real world do not charge a fee for spending five minutes telling you that they cant find a problem after getting paid to find said problem in the first place.

If I was a plumbing specialist and I couldn't find the cause of someones heating problem I would be embarrassed not charging them again.

"Specialist" my ass.

Rubbish. If someone has a medical condition where it isn't immediately obvious what the cause is, it can take visits to a number of different specialists to arrive at a correct diagnosis. Believe me I've been there, done that.

Each specialist is exactly that, a specialist in his own very specific field, not just a 'medical' specialist, and if he, for example, is a neurologist, and finds absolutely nothing neurological as a suitable explanation for someone's symptoms, there's nothing more he can do.

The only solution then is to go back to your GP and get another referral to a specialist in the next most likely field, for example, a rheumatologist, and so on until you get a diagnosis.

RobFowl

It's private heathcare so the bottom line is if you don't want to pay, fine don't go and see them.......

locum-motion

Cuchulainn1. wrote: »

Sorry but people who live in the real world do not charge a fee for spending five minutes telling you that they cant find a problem after getting paid to find said problem in the first place.

If I was a plumbing specialist and I couldn't find the cause of someones heating problem I would be embarrassed not charging them again.

"Specialist" my ass.

If you call out a plumber to look at your heating, and he looks and checks the pipes and says he can find nothing wrong, then you pay his call out fee.

You then call the gas fitter, who also has a look and says that the problem isn't the gas fittings, and you also pay his call out fee.

You then call out the electrician to see if the problem is in his area of expertise...

You see where this is going, don't you?

Of course, in all of this, the role of the GP is that of the handyman that you had in to put up a shelf and touch up the paint on the skirting board, and to whom you said "Here, have a gawk at that oul' boiler while you're here, will ya?" He had a look, and said "Ah, now... You need to get in a plumber... or a gas fitter... or an electrician. I'd say you should try the plumber first." Of course, you've to pay the handyman too!

dissed doc

Clearly the reality is: some people feel it's okay to not pay doctors and get free healthcare. Entitlement culture, there you have it in the face.

Jumboman

dissed doc wrote: »

Clearly the reality is: some people feel it's okay to not pay doctors and get free healthcare. Entitlement culture, there you have it in the face.

Thats not true I had already payed him 700euro for the tests.

MrCreosote

locum-motion wrote: »

Of course, in all of this, the role of the GP is that of the handyman that you had in to put up a shelf and touch up the paint on the skirting board, and to whom you said "Here, have a gawk at that oul' boiler while you're here, will ya?" He had a look, and said "Ah, now... You need to get in a plumber... or a gas fitter... or an electrician. I'd say you should try the plumber first." Of course, you've to pay the handyman too!

Hey! A GP isn't a handyman! A GP is a "specialist of generalism!":p

Anyway OP you're stuck with that bill I'm afraid. It sounds excessive alright but the specialist can pretty much set their fees. Maybe if you're not happy you could say about the anaesthetic and try to get an extra fee appointment to discuss things and get more bang for your buck.

One other thing- you didn't pay the consultant 700 for the tests, he just ordered them. Nothing is free- just that you're not paying directly in the public system.

gctest50

Jumboman wrote: »

Thats not true I had already payed him 700euro for the tests.

You did well there, a room private would be way more than that :

"For semi-private patients, €889 is charged in addition to the statutory fee of €75 per night. For fully private patients €1,017 is charged in addition to the statutory fee of €75 per night. "

http://www.stjames.ie/Patients/PatientCharges

Jumboman

gctest50 wrote: »

You did well there, a room private would be way more than that :

"For semi-private patients, €889 is charged in addition to the statutory fee of €75 per night. For fully private patients €1,017 is charged in addition to the statutory fee of €75 per night. "

http://www.stjames.ie/Patients/PatientCharges

I was only in a room for about 15 minutes the test took less than 10 minutes.

gctest50

Jumboman wrote: »

I was only in a room for about 15 minutes the test took less than 10 minutes.

I was just pointing out how much just the room alone would be (private) if you wanted one overnight.


You are just unhappy with whatever tests you had because once again you are "out in the wilderness" and wondering what it could be ?

Jumboman wrote: »

The main issue I have with a doc is that he wont let me get blood tests done. Theirs a condition I think I may have but the only way to rule it in or out is to have a blood test done but he says I dont need them......

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=85550631

There is only a few possible answers :

1) - Its in all your head - serious this - the stress of not knowing would make bits of you.

2) - Its a bit obscure/ being masked / behaving itself on test day - what test do ya do next ? you need the skills of a doctor for this

OMD

Jumboman wrote: »

I was only in a room for about 15 minutes the test took less than 10 minutes.

Why don't you tell us what the test was? Did the consultant perform the test or was it performed by someone else?
Was the €700 you paid to the consultant or could it have been the hospital portion of the bill? For example for a test like a colonoscopy you would have to pay the hospital about €700 and you would still have to pay the consultant seperately for doing the test.

You seem most annoyed that nothing abnormal was found. Now this could be because the consultant was totally incompetent or it could have been that there was nothing abnormal to find and your symptoms are nothing to worry about.

MicraBoy

Dude thinks he went to see Dr. House or something.

Vorsprung

OMD wrote: »

Why don't you tell us what the test was?

Mod Note

Just on this comment alone, please don't ask people to post their personal information on a public forum.

cypressg

OP this has happened to me before with a consultant and I never paid,then I started getting letters from a debt collection agency which I ignored and eventually they stopped.I think it's not worth their while taking you to court unless it's over 300 or something.The key is to never acknowledge anything-ie.don't reply to any letters.
It's theft yeah but I wouldn't feel too bad as the you're stealing from someone who is minted.

Anthony16

By "worth their while" I hope u mean the consultant is so minted that 300 is nothing to him which is probably true. However,in this case the consultant would win hands down if they decided to fully pursue it. You could then spend time in jail if u still refuse to pay,as an alternative. The ball is in their court

Jumboman

cypressg wrote: »

OP this has happened to me before with a consultant and I never paid,then I started getting letters from a debt collection agency which I ignored and eventually they stopped.I think it's not worth their while taking you to court unless it's over 300 or something.The key is to never acknowledge anything-ie.don't reply to any letters.
It's theft yeah but I wouldn't feel too bad as the you're stealing from someone who is minted.

I'd agree with everything you said expect the comment about theft. If their is any "theft" its the on the consultants part who is trying to pull a quick stroke.

Jessibelle

Is the €200 fee directly payable to the consultant though? Or does it include deductions for the medical secretary, rent of rooms, insurance etc? I'd be curious as to what the exact break down is, because if it's a case that after all that, they only come out with 50 euro, then it's roughly what you're paying to see a GP for the same amount of time, whereas if it's that in total to them, I'd wonder how they value their time, that it can come out so high?

gctest50

Jumboman wrote: »

I'd agree with everything you said expect the comment about theft. If their is any "theft" its the on the consultants part who is trying to pull a quick stroke.

Whatever about the bill for the minute ( too easy to say - i'm not the one getting shafted)

What about the most important thing ? Sorting your health out

You need to keep going until you find an answer. ( again way too easy to say)

The earlier you find out what it is and treat it, the better.

Otherwise you may run out of time and suffer needlessly and/or die.

beeno67

Jumboman wrote: »

I was only in a room for about 15 minutes the test took less than 10 minutes.

So you had a test that required an anaesthetic that made you drowsy. You then partially awoke from the anaesthetic. All this took less than 10 mins and then you had a 5 minute "consultation" and then immediately left the hospital. Really?

Mucco

Jumboman wrote: »

.......
Anyway I find it extortion that I'm been asked to pay 200euro for a 5 minute "consultation" and he is not even able to find the cause of my illness.
.......
If i spoke to him for 30 minutes than the 200euro could be justified but not 5 minutes. This to me isnt much better than a scam.

€200 sounds a lot, but we don't know what went into and before the 5 min consultation.
What struck me is that, if he spent 30 mins telling you he couldn't find the cause of you illness, you would be happy. But, because he only spent 5 minutes telling you he couldn't find the cause of you illness, you're upset. The outcome is the same either way, why does spending an extra 25 minutes make it better?

People normally spend more money for faster service: train v bus (in most countries), high speed train v slow train, express check-in at airports etc..... why does that not apply here?

Creasy_bear

Ring his receptionist, explain to her that you're not working at the moment and that if you knew you were going to be charged €200, there's no way you would have gone.

They won't chase you for the money, unless he's a proper Cnut.

Jumboman

beeno67 wrote: »

So you had a test that required an anaesthetic that made you drowsy. You then partially awoke from the anaesthetic. All this took less than 10 mins and then you had a 5 minute "consultation" and then immediately left the hospital. Really?

I was awake the whole time it was a mild anaesthetic, I left the hospital about 10 mins after speaking to the consultant.