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Abortion Bill Signed by Michael D

  • 30-07-2013 12:41pm
    #1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,770 ✭✭✭


    Folks,
    We are finally out of the Dark Ages!


«1

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,894 ✭✭✭lertsnim


    Those prayers outside the Aras yesterday didn't work so.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,669 ✭✭✭✭Grayson


    So it's all over........till it starts again.

    I give it 5 minutes


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 10,076 ✭✭✭✭Czarcasm


    greenpilot wrote: »
    Folks,
    We are finally out of the Dark Ages!


    Don't kid yourself, we are in our hole "out of the dark ages".

    Also - merge, megathread, sticky.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 43,037 ✭✭✭✭SEPT 23 1989


    I wonder what the far right Catholic headbangers will do next?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,894 ✭✭✭lertsnim


    I wonder what the far right Catholic headbangers will do next?

    Blow a fortune in court probably


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,228 ✭✭✭podgemonster


    I have yet to receive my miniature flag?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,308 ✭✭✭downonthefarm


    well the law was passed right or wrong,and the sky didnt cave in.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,678 ✭✭✭I Heart Internet


    I wonder what the far right Catholic headbangers will do next?

    Be relatively happy that Ireland still has one of the most pro-life legislative regimes in the world.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,147 ✭✭✭PizzamanIRL


    greenpilot wrote: »
    Folks,
    We are finally out of the Dark Ages!

    Not until people stop saying 'folks'


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,369 ✭✭✭LostBoy101


    Hopefully that will shut up the far right catholic supporters.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,829 ✭✭✭Nemeses


    So wait.... Did he sign the bill FOR or AGAINST abortion?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,302 ✭✭✭**Vai**


    This Abortion Bill fella sounds like quite the hoot.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,678 ✭✭✭I Heart Internet


    LostBoy101 wrote: »
    Hopefully that will shut up the far right catholic supporters.

    Hopefully it'll protect the lives of women and babies during pregnancy. That was the aim wasn't it??


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 10,250 ✭✭✭✭bumper234


    The court cases will soon start don't worry
    The Irish Independent learned that former President Mary Robinson and former Taoiseach both recommended that the contentious bill should be signed into law – and allow it to be challenged in the courts through individual cases.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,957 ✭✭✭miss no stars


    bumper234 wrote: »
    The court cases will soon start don't worry

    yeah but how's it gonna be challenged?

    "Your Honour, I want an injunction to prevent my wife/daughter/sister/girlfriend/granddaughter being provided with a termination who will die without the termination"


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,788 ✭✭✭tritium


    LostBoy101 wrote: »
    Hopefully that will shut up the far right catholic supporters.

    Silly me I forgot we all had to be pro or anti. There was I happily sitting here with the majority who want something in the middle ground.

    Won't shut up anyone on either extreme. You'll still have Binchy and Bacik whining on that its too much/ not enough.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,678 ✭✭✭I Heart Internet


    yeah but how's it gonna be challenged?

    "Your Honour, I want an injunction to prevent my wife/daughter/sister/girlfriend/granddaughter being provided with a termination who will die without the termination"

    This was not, and won't be now, grounds to prevent a termination of a pregnancy.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 38 GreenGables


    greenpilot wrote: »
    Folks,
    We are finally out of the Dark Ages!

    Yay!! Now I can move to Ireland!! :)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,943 ✭✭✭✭the purple tin


    I have yet to receive my miniature flag?
    I'm still waiting for my government cheese.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,848 ✭✭✭✭padd b1975


    I'm still waiting for my government cheese.
    My iodine tablets are out of date.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,214 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    I'm still waiting for my government cheese.

    I got government butter last month

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,943 ✭✭✭✭the purple tin


    I got government butter last month
    Ssshhh! Don't spread it about :pac:


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 10,076 ✭✭✭✭Czarcasm


    Ssshhh! Don't spread it about :pac:


    I got a block of cheese, I couldn't believe it wasn't butter :(


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,465 ✭✭✭Sir Humphrey Appleby


    Czarcasm wrote: »
    I got a block of cheese, I couldn't believe it wasn't butter :(

    milking the system, huh!:D


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,373 ✭✭✭Executive Steve


    greenpilot wrote: »
    Folks,
    We are finally out of the Dark Ages!



    We're still in the Dark Ages.


    The fight to repeal the 8th starts here.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,224 ✭✭✭alaimacerc


    lertsnim wrote: »
    Blow a fortune in court probably
    bumper234 wrote: »
    The court cases will soon start don't worry
    The Irish Independent learned that former President Mary Robinson and former Taoiseach both recommended that the contentious bill should be signed into law – and allow it to be challenged in the courts through individual cases.

    One wonders if these facts are at all related.

    "So lads, pros and cons?"

    "If we refer it to the SC ourselves, and it's upheld, it's bombproof! No one can can challenge it ever again!"

    "OK then, so. And that's on whose dime?"

    "Eh, ours, boss."

    "And if we don't refer it?"

    "Then it might be challenged at at time by some forcedbirther loon! No-one will know until then if it's constitutional!"

    "And who pays for that?"

    "Eh, the Hierarchy and some US Fundie Prods."

    "Right, then. Pass me that pen there..."


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,201 ✭✭✭✭_Kaiser_


    The Catholic Church isn't giving up yet it seems - now they're refusing to comply with the legislation:
    A priest on the board of governors of the Mater hospital in Dublin said it "cannot comply" with the Protection of Life During Pregnancy Act.
    Speaking to the Irish Times, Father Kevin Doran said the hospital cannot carry out abortions because it goes against its Catholic ethos.

    So not only have they forced generations of women to go to the UK and recently said a big FU to the others they abused and exploited in their laundries, but now they reckon they're above the law of the land.

    Someone should remind this crowd it's not the 1930s anymore. :mad:


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,067 ✭✭✭Gunmonkey


    Kaiser2000 wrote: »
    The Catholic Church isn't giving up yet it seems - now they're refusing to comply with the legislation:



    So not only have they forced generations of women to go to the UK and recently said a big FU to the others they abused and exploited in their laundries, but now they reckon they're above the law of the land.

    Someone should remind this crowd it's not the 1930s anymore. :mad:

    Was there ever a point they thought they had to obey Irish law?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,201 ✭✭✭✭_Kaiser_


    Gunmonkey wrote: »
    Was there ever a point they thought they had to obey Irish law?

    Probably not, but it's even more of a reason to remove their charity status, tax them like any other business and expel them from any positions of authority where they might be able to influence (or harm) a child or put a woman's life at risk.

    Normally I'm pretty much "live and let live" when it comes to religion, but their response to the above two issues would convince me that it's time to remove this out-of-touch organisation entirely from Irish life (Thanks for that Dev) :mad:

    devkissesring.jpg (taken from this thread)


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  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 12,554 Mod ✭✭✭✭Amirani


    The Mater should be forced to permit treatment to patients that they're entitled to under Irish law or else have all state funding withdrawn. Screw this bull**** about a "catholic ethos" in a state-funded hospital.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,722 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui


    greenpilot wrote: »
    Folks,
    We are finally out of the Dark Ages!

    I doubt 4,000+ women a year would agree with you.

    The only way to get Ireland out of the dark ages would be to nationalise and secularise all the schools and hospitals, starting tomorrow with the Matter.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,597 ✭✭✭gctest50


    You'd also have this shower knocking around in the "shadows" : http://www.cngi.ie/recent-news




    .


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 12,456 ✭✭✭✭Mr Benevolent


    Be relatively happy that Ireland still has one of the most pro-life legislative regimes in the world.

    ...except the legislation that allows for full term abortions when the mother threatens suicide. Yeah, really pro-life.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 231 ✭✭remsburgsgirl


    greenpilot wrote: »
    Folks,
    We are finally out of the Dark Ages!

    We've gone backwards in a different direction...I have no faith in Ireland being capable of anything else.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,678 ✭✭✭I Heart Internet


    ...except the legislation that allows for full term abortions when the mother threatens suicide. Yeah, really pro-life.

    Heh, I'm not a fan of it either but thankfully that should be an extraordinarily rare occurance....if it occurs at all.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,465 ✭✭✭Sir Humphrey Appleby


    ...except the legislation that allows for full term abortions when the mother threatens suicide. Yeah, really pro-life.

    Shocking the bizarre lies and misrepresentations that are posteed here by the YD mob.
    A "Full Term" abortion carried out under this legislation would actually be a ceasarian section or induced birth, both the full term baby and mother survive.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,678 ✭✭✭I Heart Internet


    Fr Doran should have emphasised that the Mater's ethos would be entirely compatible with 90% of the new law. Life saving procedures are beign carried out in catholic hospitals very regularly that, unfortunetly, result in the termination of pregnancies and, often, the death of unborn babies.

    The only bit that would be an issue for the Mater, I presume, is the suicide element.....you know, the bit that NO medical expert could be found to support in the January hearings, the bit based on the advice of a single psychologist (not psychiatrist) back in 1992.

    An institution has a right to an ethos and the board have a legal obligation to defend that ethos.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,678 ✭✭✭I Heart Internet


    Shocking the bizarre lies and misrepresentations that are posteed here by the YD mob.
    A "Full Term" abortion carried out under this legislation would actually be a ceasarian section or induced birth, both the full term baby and mother survive.

    To be fair, that's not specified in the legislation. A lot of stuff isn't specified in the legislation - with good reason - but neither is that. So you can't actually be sure.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 12,456 ✭✭✭✭Mr Benevolent


    Shocking the bizarre lies and misrepresentations that are posteed here by the YD mob.
    A "Full Term" abortion carried out under this legislation would actually be a ceasarian section or induced birth, both the full term baby and mother survive.

    What's YD? Under the act in case of threatened suicide abortion can be carried out at any time. Point me to a time limit related to abortion in the case of threatened suicide and I'll retract my statement.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,644 ✭✭✭✭lazygal


    What's YD? Under the act in case of threatened suicide abortion can be carried out at any time. Point me to a time limit related to abortion in the case of threatened suicide and I'll retract my statement.

    Funny, my pregnancy was terminated at 39 weeks, or full term, and my 14 month old is hale and hearty.

    The pregnancy is terminated, not the baby. No doctor would deliver a live baby to save the life of a woman and then kill the baby during or post delivery in Ireland.

    Once again the idiots who fought to include the unnecessary constitutional provision on the right to life of a zygote failed to realise that one cannot legally put a time limit on a constitutional right, thereby ensuring the right to a termination of pregnancy for a woman who's life is in danger cannot be subject to time limits.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 793 ✭✭✭jaja321


    lazygal wrote: »
    Funny, my pregnancy was terminated at 39 weeks, or full term, and my 14 month old is hale and hearty.

    The pregnancy is terminated, not the baby. No doctor would deliver a live baby to save the life of a woman and then kill the baby during or post delivery in Ireland.

    Once again the idiots who fought to include the unnecessary constitutional provision on the right to life of a zygote failed to realise that one cannot legally put a time limit on a constitutional right, thereby ensuring the right to a termination of pregnancy for a woman who's life is in danger cannot be subject to time limits.

    How many times does this have to be explained?! Seriously.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,678 ✭✭✭I Heart Internet


    lazygal wrote: »
    Funny, my pregnancy was terminated at 39 weeks, or full term, and my 14 month old is hale and hearty.

    The pregnancy is terminated, not the baby. No doctor would deliver a live baby to save the life of a woman and then kill the baby during or post delivery in Ireland.

    Once again the idiots who fought to include the unnecessary constitutional provision on the right to life of a zygote failed to realise that one cannot legally put a time limit on a constitutional right, thereby ensuring the right to a termination of pregnancy for a woman who's life is in danger cannot be subject to time limits.

    A more interesting/distressing question is, what would happen where a termination is deemed to be required at, say, 21 weeks. What happens then? Terminate and let the baby take it's chances?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,644 ✭✭✭✭lazygal


    A more interesting/distressing question is, what would happen where a termination is deemed to be required at, say, 21 weeks. What happens then? Terminate and let the baby take it's chances?

    Yes. If the woman dies, the baby dies too. Is it better to let the woman take her chances and continue the pregnancy when there's a risk to her life? Not every woman would want the pregnancy terminated though, some are happy to take on substantial risks to continue a pregnancy, regardless of other options. I fully support the right to make that decision too.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,090 ✭✭✭✭PopePalpatine


    Why are people getting worked up about the lack of term limits on abortion in this Bill? It's not as if someone waves a wand at 20 weeks and declares, "Your life will not be threatened for the rest of this pregnancy!"


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,644 ✭✭✭✭lazygal


    Why are people getting worked up about the lack of term limits on abortion in this Bill? It's not as if someone waves a wand at 20 weeks and declares, "Your life will not be threatened for the rest of this pregnancy!"

    Wouldn't it be handy if Jesus came back and did just that? Problem solved!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,770 ✭✭✭✭RobertKK


    Why are people getting worked up about the lack of term limits on abortion in this Bill? It's not as if someone waves a wand at 20 weeks and declares, "Your life will not be threatened for the rest of this pregnancy!"

    The problem is suicide.

    Most psychiatrists say abortion is not a treatment for suicidality.


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 12,554 Mod ✭✭✭✭Amirani


    An institution has a right to an ethos and the board have a legal obligation to defend that ethos.

    An institution does have a right to an ethos. However, if that is neglecting their duty of care to patients as it clearly is in this instance, then state-funding to that institution should be stopped. I'd rather my tax money go to institutions that actually provide the medical care that patients are entitled to under Irish law.

    Basically, **** their "ethos" if it's denying patients the care they need and deserve.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,044 ✭✭✭gcgirl


    What's YD? Under the act in case of threatened suicide abortion can be carried out at any time. Point me to a time limit related to abortion in the case of threatened suicide and I'll retract my statement.

    Cmon ! When the fetus becomes viable its a csection ! Same if pre eclampsia was diagnosed and tell me this in all honesty when does a woman become suicidal, personally its as soon as those 2 lines come up at the pregnancy test not 7 months in, personal experience but I'm gifted with a family who do not stigmatize having kids outside marriage and have been a constant support


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,044 ✭✭✭gcgirl


    RobertKK wrote: »
    The problem is suicide.

    Most psychiatrists say abortion is not a treatment for suicidality.

    There is no treatment for suicide

    And in fairness Ireland has a massive problem with suicide


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,644 ✭✭✭✭lazygal


    RobertKK wrote: »
    The problem is suicide.

    Most psychiatrists say abortion is not a treatment for suicidality.

    Yeah, we better just not offer abortions to suicidal pregnant women because they won't kill themselves. And if they do, sure at least we didn't take the chance on abortion.


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