Abortion Bill Signed by Michael D

greenpilot

Folks,
We are finally out of the Dark Ages!

lertsnim

Those prayers outside the Aras yesterday didn't work so.

Grayson

So it's all over........till it starts again.

I give it 5 minutes

Czarcasm

greenpilot wrote: »

Folks,
We are finally out of the Dark Ages!

Don't kid yourself, we are in our hole "out of the dark ages".

Also - merge, megathread, sticky.

SEPT 23 1989

I wonder what the far right Catholic headbangers will do next?

lertsnim

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

I wonder what the far right Catholic headbangers will do next?

Blow a fortune in court probably

podgemonster

I have yet to receive my miniature flag?

downonthefarm

well the law was passed right or wrong,and the sky didnt cave in.

I Heart Internet

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

I wonder what the far right Catholic headbangers will do next?

Be relatively happy that Ireland still has one of the most pro-life legislative regimes in the world.

PizzamanIRL

greenpilot wrote: »

Folks,
We are finally out of the Dark Ages!

Not until people stop saying 'folks'

LostBoy101

Hopefully that will shut up the far right catholic supporters.

Nemeses

So wait.... Did he sign the bill FOR or AGAINST abortion?

**Vai**

This Abortion Bill fella sounds like quite the hoot.

I Heart Internet

LostBoy101 wrote: »

Hopefully that will shut up the far right catholic supporters.

Hopefully it'll protect the lives of women and babies during pregnancy. That was the aim wasn't it??

bumper234

The court cases will soon start don't worry

The Irish Independent learned that former President Mary Robinson and former Taoiseach both recommended that the contentious bill should be signed into law – and allow it to be challenged in the courts through individual cases.

miss no stars

bumper234 wrote: »

The court cases will soon start don't worry

yeah but how's it gonna be challenged?

"Your Honour, I want an injunction to prevent my wife/daughter/sister/girlfriend/granddaughter being provided with a termination who will die without the termination"

tritium

LostBoy101 wrote: »

Hopefully that will shut up the far right catholic supporters.

Silly me I forgot we all had to be pro or anti. There was I happily sitting here with the majority who want something in the middle ground.

Won't shut up anyone on either extreme. You'll still have Binchy and Bacik whining on that its too much/ not enough.

I Heart Internet

miss no stars wrote: »

yeah but how's it gonna be challenged?

"Your Honour, I want an injunction to prevent my wife/daughter/sister/girlfriend/granddaughter being provided with a termination who will die without the termination"

This was not, and won't be now, grounds to prevent a termination of a pregnancy.

GreenGables

greenpilot wrote: »

Folks,
We are finally out of the Dark Ages!

Yay!! Now I can move to Ireland!!

the purple tin

podgemonster wrote: »

I have yet to receive my miniature flag?

I'm still waiting for my government cheese.

padd b1975

the purple tin wrote: »

I'm still waiting for my government cheese.

My iodine tablets are out of date.

Annasopra

the purple tin wrote: »

I'm still waiting for my government cheese.

I got government butter last month

the purple tin

mango salsa wrote: »

I got government butter last month

Ssshhh! Don't spread it about :pac:

Czarcasm

the purple tin wrote: »

Ssshhh! Don't spread it about :pac:

I got a block of cheese, I couldn't believe it wasn't butter

Sir Humphrey Appleby

Czarcasm wrote: »

I got a block of cheese, I couldn't believe it wasn't butter

milking the system, huh!:D

Executive Steve

greenpilot wrote: »

Folks,
We are finally out of the Dark Ages!

We're still in the Dark Ages.


The fight to repeal the 8th starts here.

alaimacerc

lertsnim wrote: »

Blow a fortune in court probably

bumper234 wrote: »

The court cases will soon start don't worry

The Irish Independent learned that former President Mary Robinson and former Taoiseach both recommended that the contentious bill should be signed into law – and allow it to be challenged in the courts through individual cases.

One wonders if these facts are at all related.

"So lads, pros and cons?"

"If we refer it to the SC ourselves, and it's upheld, it's bombproof! No one can can challenge it ever again!"

"OK then, so. And that's on whose dime?"

"Eh, ours, boss."

"And if we don't refer it?"

"Then it might be challenged at at time by some forcedbirther loon! No-one will know until then if it's constitutional!"

"And who pays for that?"

"Eh, the Hierarchy and some US Fundie Prods."

"Right, then. Pass me that pen there..."

_Kaiser_

The Catholic Church isn't giving up yet it seems - now they're refusing to comply with the legislation:

A priest on the board of governors of the Mater hospital in Dublin said it "cannot comply" with the Protection of Life During Pregnancy Act.
Speaking to the Irish Times, Father Kevin Doran said the hospital cannot carry out abortions because it goes against its Catholic ethos.

So not only have they forced generations of women to go to the UK and recently said a big FU to the others they abused and exploited in their laundries, but now they reckon they're above the law of the land.

Someone should remind this crowd it's not the 1930s anymore. :mad:

Gunmonkey

Kaiser2000 wrote: »

The Catholic Church isn't giving up yet it seems - now they're refusing to comply with the legislation:



So not only have they forced generations of women to go to the UK and recently said a big FU to the others they abused and exploited in their laundries, but now they reckon they're above the law of the land.

Someone should remind this crowd it's not the 1930s anymore. :mad:

Was there ever a point they thought they had to obey Irish law?

_Kaiser_

Gunmonkey wrote: »

Was there ever a point they thought they had to obey Irish law?

Probably not, but it's even more of a reason to remove their charity status, tax them like any other business and expel them from any positions of authority where they might be able to influence (or harm) a child or put a woman's life at risk.

Normally I'm pretty much "live and let live" when it comes to religion, but their response to the above two issues would convince me that it's time to remove this out-of-touch organisation entirely from Irish life (Thanks for that Dev) :mad:

(taken from this thread)

Amirani

The Mater should be forced to permit treatment to patients that they're entitled to under Irish law or else have all state funding withdrawn. Screw this bull**** about a "catholic ethos" in a state-funded hospital.

cnocbui

greenpilot wrote: »

Folks,
We are finally out of the Dark Ages!

I doubt 4,000+ women a year would agree with you.

The only way to get Ireland out of the dark ages would be to nationalise and secularise all the schools and hospitals, starting tomorrow with the Matter.

gctest50

You'd also have this shower knocking around in the "shadows" : http://www.cngi.ie/recent-news




.

Mr Benevolent

I Heart Internet wrote: »

Be relatively happy that Ireland still has one of the most pro-life legislative regimes in the world.

...except the legislation that allows for full term abortions when the mother threatens suicide. Yeah, really pro-life.

remsburgsgirl

greenpilot wrote: »

Folks,
We are finally out of the Dark Ages!

We've gone backwards in a different direction...I have no faith in Ireland being capable of anything else.

I Heart Internet

Mr Benevolent wrote: »

...except the legislation that allows for full term abortions when the mother threatens suicide. Yeah, really pro-life.

Heh, I'm not a fan of it either but thankfully that should be an extraordinarily rare occurance....if it occurs at all.

Sir Humphrey Appleby

Mr Benevolent wrote: »

...except the legislation that allows for full term abortions when the mother threatens suicide. Yeah, really pro-life.

Shocking the bizarre lies and misrepresentations that are posteed here by the YD mob.
A "Full Term" abortion carried out under this legislation would actually be a ceasarian section or induced birth, both the full term baby and mother survive.

I Heart Internet

Fr Doran should have emphasised that the Mater's ethos would be entirely compatible with 90% of the new law. Life saving procedures are beign carried out in catholic hospitals very regularly that, unfortunetly, result in the termination of pregnancies and, often, the death of unborn babies.

The only bit that would be an issue for the Mater, I presume, is the suicide element.....you know, the bit that NO medical expert could be found to support in the January hearings, the bit based on the advice of a single psychologist (not psychiatrist) back in 1992.

An institution has a right to an ethos and the board have a legal obligation to defend that ethos.

I Heart Internet

Sir Humphrey Appleby wrote: »

Shocking the bizarre lies and misrepresentations that are posteed here by the YD mob.
A "Full Term" abortion carried out under this legislation would actually be a ceasarian section or induced birth, both the full term baby and mother survive.

To be fair, that's not specified in the legislation. A lot of stuff isn't specified in the legislation - with good reason - but neither is that. So you can't actually be sure.

Mr Benevolent

Sir Humphrey Appleby wrote: »

Shocking the bizarre lies and misrepresentations that are posteed here by the YD mob.
A "Full Term" abortion carried out under this legislation would actually be a ceasarian section or induced birth, both the full term baby and mother survive.

What's YD? Under the act in case of threatened suicide abortion can be carried out at any time. Point me to a time limit related to abortion in the case of threatened suicide and I'll retract my statement.

lazygal

Mr Benevolent wrote: »

What's YD? Under the act in case of threatened suicide abortion can be carried out at any time. Point me to a time limit related to abortion in the case of threatened suicide and I'll retract my statement.

Funny, my pregnancy was terminated at 39 weeks, or full term, and my 14 month old is hale and hearty.

The pregnancy is terminated, not the baby. No doctor would deliver a live baby to save the life of a woman and then kill the baby during or post delivery in Ireland.

Once again the idiots who fought to include the unnecessary constitutional provision on the right to life of a zygote failed to realise that one cannot legally put a time limit on a constitutional right, thereby ensuring the right to a termination of pregnancy for a woman who's life is in danger cannot be subject to time limits.

jaja321

lazygal wrote: »

Funny, my pregnancy was terminated at 39 weeks, or full term, and my 14 month old is hale and hearty.

The pregnancy is terminated, not the baby. No doctor would deliver a live baby to save the life of a woman and then kill the baby during or post delivery in Ireland.

Once again the idiots who fought to include the unnecessary constitutional provision on the right to life of a zygote failed to realise that one cannot legally put a time limit on a constitutional right, thereby ensuring the right to a termination of pregnancy for a woman who's life is in danger cannot be subject to time limits.

How many times does this have to be explained?! Seriously.

I Heart Internet

lazygal wrote: »

Funny, my pregnancy was terminated at 39 weeks, or full term, and my 14 month old is hale and hearty.

The pregnancy is terminated, not the baby. No doctor would deliver a live baby to save the life of a woman and then kill the baby during or post delivery in Ireland.

Once again the idiots who fought to include the unnecessary constitutional provision on the right to life of a zygote failed to realise that one cannot legally put a time limit on a constitutional right, thereby ensuring the right to a termination of pregnancy for a woman who's life is in danger cannot be subject to time limits.

A more interesting/distressing question is, what would happen where a termination is deemed to be required at, say, 21 weeks. What happens then? Terminate and let the baby take it's chances?

lazygal

I Heart Internet wrote: »

A more interesting/distressing question is, what would happen where a termination is deemed to be required at, say, 21 weeks. What happens then? Terminate and let the baby take it's chances?

Yes. If the woman dies, the baby dies too. Is it better to let the woman take her chances and continue the pregnancy when there's a risk to her life? Not every woman would want the pregnancy terminated though, some are happy to take on substantial risks to continue a pregnancy, regardless of other options. I fully support the right to make that decision too.

PopePalpatine

Why are people getting worked up about the lack of term limits on abortion in this Bill? It's not as if someone waves a wand at 20 weeks and declares, "Your life will not be threatened for the rest of this pregnancy!"

lazygal

PopePalpatine wrote: »

Why are people getting worked up about the lack of term limits on abortion in this Bill? It's not as if someone waves a wand at 20 weeks and declares, "Your life will not be threatened for the rest of this pregnancy!"

Wouldn't it be handy if Jesus came back and did just that? Problem solved!

RobertKK

PopePalpatine wrote: »

Why are people getting worked up about the lack of term limits on abortion in this Bill? It's not as if someone waves a wand at 20 weeks and declares, "Your life will not be threatened for the rest of this pregnancy!"

The problem is suicide.

Most psychiatrists say abortion is not a treatment for suicidality.

Amirani

I Heart Internet wrote: »

An institution has a right to an ethos and the board have a legal obligation to defend that ethos.

An institution does have a right to an ethos. However, if that is neglecting their duty of care to patients as it clearly is in this instance, then state-funding to that institution should be stopped. I'd rather my tax money go to institutions that actually provide the medical care that patients are entitled to under Irish law.

Basically, **** their "ethos" if it's denying patients the care they need and deserve.

gcgirl

Mr Benevolent wrote: »

What's YD? Under the act in case of threatened suicide abortion can be carried out at any time. Point me to a time limit related to abortion in the case of threatened suicide and I'll retract my statement.

Cmon ! When the fetus becomes viable its a csection ! Same if pre eclampsia was diagnosed and tell me this in all honesty when does a woman become suicidal, personally its as soon as those 2 lines come up at the pregnancy test not 7 months in, personal experience but I'm gifted with a family who do not stigmatize having kids outside marriage and have been a constant support

gcgirl

RobertKK wrote: »

The problem is suicide.

Most psychiatrists say abortion is not a treatment for suicidality.

There is no treatment for suicide

And in fairness Ireland has a massive problem with suicide

lazygal

RobertKK wrote: »

The problem is suicide.

Most psychiatrists say abortion is not a treatment for suicidality.

Yeah, we better just not offer abortions to suicidal pregnant women because they won't kill themselves. And if they do, sure at least we didn't take the chance on abortion.