Pine Martens

TriggerPL

Birdnuts wrote: »

AFAIK most mammalian predators like foxes, stoats etc. will stockpile if given the chance. As for bringing them from Canada, if that happened, I doubt is was done by any licenced/official body since the species was already here and so was a needless act that might threaten the native genepool of Irish Pine Martins.

From what I read at the time it was an introduction buy coilte, or some other organising planting trees to tackle the grays !

Now like everything this article was in a shooting magazine and could have been someone's opinion or view and how true or untrue it is , is unknown !

But there is never smoke with out fire !

And I personally think the reason we have a huge increase in pinemartin is because of the huge increase in forestry!

PLAIN and simple !

TriggerPL

Half-cocked wrote: »

The American Marten is quite different, smaller for a start. If it's been introduced here (and there doesn't seem to be any evidence it has) it may or may not hybridize with the native Pine Marten. Why would anyone introduce it? Didn't we learn a hard lesson from the mink introduction?

And to ans ur question do the Irish people learn anything ever !

Prime example is the country going to **** it's self !

Birdnuts

TriggerPL wrote: »

From what I read at the time it was an introduction buy coilte, or some other organising planting trees to tackle the grays !

Now like everything this article was in a shooting magazine and could have been someone's opinion or view and how true or untrue it is , is unknown !

But there is never smoke with out fire !

And I personally think the reason we have a huge increase in pinemartin is because of the huge increase in forestry!

PLAIN and simple !

No doubt that the increase in forestry helped the PM, as it has the likes of deer etc. However I would be a bit wary about what I read in certain shooting mags about such matters, some have a habitat of quoting random stuff from the internet as if its hard facts. I guess the only way to clear this issue up is to put in an FOI request to Coillte.

TriggerPL

Birdnuts wrote: »

However I would be a bit wary about what I read in certain shooting mags about such matters, some have a habitat of quoting random stuff from the internet as if its hard facts. .

Haha no to unlike on this forum , like every thing it good to get different views on things !

I've noticed this forum has got a lot more user friendly and arguments don't occurred as much anymore in threads

Long may it continue

Birdnuts

TriggerPL wrote: »

Haha no to unlike on this forum , like every thing it good to get different views on things !

I've noticed this forum has got a lot more user friendly and arguments don't occurred as much anymore in threads

Long may it continue

Indeed - I always try to have an open mind on whatever topic is being discussed. I'm always open to be convinced either way. The most important thing for me is hard scientific evidence. Over the years I've changed my mind on a wide range of subjects based on the above principle.

4200fps

dodderangler wrote: »

I agree. I would think the bite to the neck and moving into next victim is traits of mink.
Pine marten numbers are rising slowly but seeing them about is quite rare. Mink are alot more numerous so I'd think it was more mink than pine.
Besides the pine marten is doing the job on the grey squirrel.

Pinemartin for sure. Brown with a yellow belly she said and she lives beside forestry. Just cause a mink would do the same doesn't mean a pinemartin doesn't. How do they kill grey squirrels?

DEMOLISHER

you wouldn't no the difference between them it was a mink

4200fps

DEMOLISHER wrote: »

you wouldn't no the difference between them it was a mink

Your right they don't have any difference in color :rolleyes: Typical anti who wouldn't hear a bad word said about martin lol

TriggerPL

4200fps wrote: »

Pinemartin for sure. Brown with a yellow belly she said and she lives beside forestry. Just cause a mink would do the same doesn't mean a pinemartin doesn't. How do they kill grey squirrels?

No silly they use there nuts to attract them in and then attack ! Everyone know this !

.223forme

pine marten's are well adapted killing machines,,personally think it's b.s that they're fully protected! Should be like the fox whereby you're allowed to control them if they are reeking havok in an area there's going to be a serious problem in this country if and when their population spreads nationwide god knows all groud nesting birds and many songbird species are already in grave danger of extinction as it is without the addition of another 'untouchable ' serious predator to decimate their stocks further like the sparrowhawk, cat, buzzard ,badger etc.,, thats on top of the inevitable future increase in habitat loss which very much opens a window for predation...biodiversity in ireland is f###ed the people at the top need to get their heads out of their arses and start seeing the signs before it's too late! As i've said time and time again ,,we dont have a top order predator in ireland to help thin out such predators numbers unlike north america ,scandanavia etc. i.e coyotes,wolves, golden eagle hence allowing such predators free reign in our countryside ,,risks to pheasant/poultry is only one side to this arguement we need to look at the effects this ever increasing predator population is inflicting on our more vulnerable wildlife! Whats happened to most of our partridge, lapwing, plover, curlews, finches etc. in recent years? and dont lecture me on habitat loss alone because we all know this is not the only factor.... #rantover

Birdnuts

.223forme wrote: »

pine marten's are well adapted killing machines,,personally think it's b.s that they're fully protected! Should be like the fox whereby you're allowed to control them if they are reeking havok in an area there's going to be a serious problem in this country if and when their population spreads nationwide god knows all groud nesting birds and many songbird species are already in grave danger of extinction as it is without the addition of another 'untouchable ' serious predator to decimate their stocks further like the sparrowhawk, cat, buzzard ,badger etc.,, thats on top of the inevitable future increase in habitat loss which very much opens a window for predation...biodiversity in ireland is f###ed the people at the top need to get their heads out of their arses and start seeing the signs before it's too late! As i've said time and time again ,,we dont have a top order predator in ireland to help thin out such predators numbers unlike north america ,scandanavia etc. i.e coyotes,wolves, golden eagle hence allowing such predators free reign in our countryside ,,risks to pheasant/poultry is only one side to this arguement we need to look at the effects this ever increasing predator population is inflicting on our more vulnerable wildlife! Whats happened to most of our partridge, lapwing, plover, curlews, finches etc. in recent years? and dont lecture me on habitat loss alone because we all know this is not the only factor.... #rantover

Conservation has to be based on scientific research and hard facts. Not rants that distract from the real issues. Following your logic we should be culling the likes of Red Squirrels, Woodpeckers, Cuckoos etc. since they are occasional predators of nestlings/eggs etc. Commonsense and a modern understanding of how nature actually works tells us that such an approach has no logic and would be highly destructive of the recent advances in the conseravation of certain species as well as totally failing to address the problems other species face.

EG. The vast majority of buzzards live prey is vermin like rats, magpies and crows. http://duhallow.blogspot.ie/p/buzzards-in-duhallow.html. Similar studies in the UK back this up.

Based on these studies the return of native raptors like buzzards can only be of benefit to the likes of songbirds and ground nesting species. Buzzards only returned to this country in the late 1990's, many years after Partridges disappeared and the main declines in Curlew and Plovers.


The main predators of ground nesting birds are the likes of foxes,crows and mink which has been proven by the success of the Boora project in which not alone a healthy wild population of partridges have been estaiblished by legal vermin control and habitat work, but also the return of breeding Lapwings and Curlew to the area. I have seen similiar results thanx to the good work of the Blessington Game Conservancy with the likes of Lapwing and Curlew now breeding in wetlands and quarries around the lake. Both these areas have a healthy buzzard population which proves my first point.

As for Sparrowhawks, they do take the odd songbird but there again there is no evidence that this native bird which only has a few thousand pairs in the whole country is a factor in any declines. Indeed many songbirds populations are on the increase in this country including the likes of Goldfinches, Linnets, Siskins etc.. Check out the latest UK and Ireland Breeding Bird Atlas if you don't beleive me.



Feral cats are a totally different kettle of fish as they are a non-native invasive predator on a par with mink to which native wildlife are not adapted.


If your that concerned about native wildlife you should be more concerned by the activities of the likes of Teagasc and the Dept of Agriculture which for decades now have encouraged farmers to destroy vast amounts of bird rich habitats like scrub, wetlands and wildflower meadows. Not to mention the millions of litres of pesticides used on farmland every year which has hit the populations of not just birds but everything from butterflies to bees. That is not me farmer bashing btw(I farm part time myself)....I'm simply pointing out the damage the likes of the CAP policies has done to wildlife in this country.