Executing a will -Just say no !

jos28

Having the MOST stressful week and all because I agreed to be an executor.
4 beneficiaries of which I am one. 2 of them are insisting that I settle the estate and they are correct to do so as it is 3 years since the person died. The remaining beneficiary is insisting on the house being sold to her offspring at a ridiculously reduced price. On the instructions of the 2 anxious ones I contacted an estate agent and it is going on the market next week. Everyone has been given the same communication about what is happening. 2 are thrilled and the other one has daggers out for me. I am SO sorry I ever agreed to do this.
Heed my warning folks - say no !

Jellybaby1

What a nightmare! Being asked to sell low just to please one family when there are other beneficiaries is just plain nasty. Daggers after a death, how sad. Hope you get things sorted soon and get out of it safely. I'm curious, was there a legal or logistical reason why the house is only being sold three years after the death?

jos28

Thanks for the sympathy Jellybaby, I am tearing my hair out at this stage.
The house wasn't sold because said beneficiaries' offspring was 'minding' the house with an option to eventually buying it. They cannot raise the funds and realistically have no chance of ever doing so. In the meantime they have moved their partner in without permission and I am the bad guy
Big family function on this weekend and I was really looking forward to it but now I am terrified that it will all kick off. Absolutely worn out with it all

Jellybaby1

Well you can only do your best to honour your commitment. Hope you get it sold soon for a realistic price. With the property market the way it is at the moment it will take a drop anyway. If it was me I'd just communicate via email until the war is over! Keep your head down and carry on. Good luck.

jos28

Good advice about the email communication and hopefully the 'dissenter' will be happier when we get more than expected. Cheers Jellybaby - I just needed a rant !

Jellybaby1

Rant away, it quiet in here at this hour as everyone is tucked up and wearing earplugs! I'm off now too.

hytrogen

Sell high, split evenly & head for the hills cuz the tax man will be after ya otherwise for his cut! good luck

Teagwee

Your advice re saying no to being an executor is sound - where there's a will, there's a WAIL, in my experience It's impossible to please everyone and it continues to amaze me how the claws come out when it comes to inheritances. The worst of these spats even occur before the 'willing' one is even dead!!!
Having said that, this too will pass and as long as you've done the best thing (which is definitely settling things up now for the good of all) you can pat yourself on the back for a job well done. The discontented people in this instance can offer for the house on the same basis as anyone else - if they have the money, they can buy; if not, they will get their share. It's the only fair way to finding the true market value.
Go to the family function and hold your head high - you've done your best and no one can argue that.

jos28

Brilliantly said Teagwee, every word rings true. I don't do confrontation, but it all came to a head today. I pointed out very clearly and unemotionally exactly what you say. I have done everything in the best interests of all. I pointed out that I am legally obliged to dispose of the assets for the highest possible value and if they have the money then put in a bid !
My trump card was a threat to hand the executor duties over to the solicitor and they can pay him to do what I have been doing for months for free. Dissenter completely backed down and agreed they were out of order. The keys will be given to the estate agent on Monday. The air has been cleared (for now) and I can look forward to the party. Thanks everyone for all the advice and most of all for listening.

Jellybaby1

Ah, the 'ould level-headedness wins 'em over every time. Congratulations and well done!

Teagwee

Well done, Jos28 - you said and did exactly the right thing to make them take notice. If they didn't like what you were doing, someone else could be employed to do it (at a considerable) cost, which would come out of the proceeds. Not only that, they knew it would result in exactly the same thing: house on the market, highest bidder wins. Kudos

GarIT

I'd email the three other beneficiaries and offer two options. They can have the house valued and sold on the market or sell the house to the offspring at 75% of the market price on the condition that their parent gets nothing and the three of you split the money three ways, basically they would be gifting their quarter to their offspring.

Have you considered not selling and renting to the offspring? It could cause more hassle but could make them happy as they still have a place to live.

jos28

GarIT, we have gone through the option of letting the person gift their share to their offspring seeing as they are so anxious to have it. I even arranged a meeting with a financial advisor to go through the options. Surprisingly they didn't take up the offer
We have been to renting to said offspring for half the going rate with the option to purchase at the end of a one year lease. That agreement ended 10 months ago and they really have no chance of getting a mortgage. An ex with a seriously dodgy past has also moved in (without our permission). It has all got very messy and it is time to bring things to a head and move on. It might sound cruel but the offspring has had nearly 2 years to raise the finance. My solicitors have advised me that if we offer the house to that person, then the same offer has to be put to all remaining grandchildren. I apparently cannot show undue favour to one grandchild. So you can see why I am tearing my hair out. However, since the air was cleared things are better. The 'dissenter' has realised that just because her child wants something doesn't mean she will get it. We would gladly sell to her at market value if she got loan approval but she didn't after 3 attempts. We all have disappointments in life and have to deal with it.

Outkast_IRE

Sounds like your going about things the correct way anyway, do your duty correctly and there will be no issues down the line.
If you gave it to demands there could be legal battles lined up and a ****storm for years

jos28

Thanks for the reassurance Outkast. I am going to stick rigidly to correct procedure, end of story.
I have the duties of an executor pinned up in front of my desk. It has become like a mantra at this stage

Mollywolly

Your thread is scaring me half to death jos :eek: Fair play to you though for handling it well.

Last year my brother and his wife (both in their 60's) asked me to be their Executor, along with the wife's niece. They live in the UK and I know it will be a pain in the a$$ so I tried (politely) to say no.

Their reasons for asking me were because my OH was executor for his aunt's will some years ago and they thought this would give me an advantage because I'd already been through it. Yeah right....and promised myself "never again".

Anyhoo, being a useless lump and not wanting to offend anyone, I reluctantly agreed but I'm really dreading it and your post, well, now I DO have the eebie-jeebies.

Making a will is all well and good for them departing this earth but for those left behind it can create all kinds of bother. I'm getting round it by spending every penny I have and I want to end my days in rented accommodation so there's no property to dispose of. Gosh, my nephews and nieces will be very disappointed, won't they

jos28

Ah Molly,
You have to leave them something to fight over
I am not through the process yet but hopefully I am on the right track.
My biggest mistake was letting the person move into the house in the first place, but hindsight is a great thing. I thought I was doing a good turn.
If I was starting over again I would not give into any requests whatsoever. I would leave as much work as possible to the professionals. I would stick strictly to the guidelines which would be to dispose of the assets asap for full market value without showing any favours to ANYONE. I would be much firmer and tell people that my decisions are final and that's that !!

Just a note to cheer you up - You know that your duties as an executor do not end when the cheques are handed out - You remain executor until you die yourself :eek:

hoplon

Teagwee wrote: »

Your advice re saying no to being an executor is sound - where there's a will, there's a WAIL, in my experience It's impossible to please everyone and it continues to amaze me how the claws come out when it comes to inheritances. The worst of these spats even occur before the 'willing' one is even dead!!!.

As much as it sounds like hassle, Id prefer to be an executor and know I would honestly carry out the wishes in the will, rather than someone else become one and them have no compunction of doing otherwise.
I believe an executor can only carry out the will as it is and that no one else has a right to even see whats in the will or how its being apportioned or try determine the outcome. Does a solicitor have to be involved, I assumed so and that the executor was just there to move things along and deal with the solicitor.

downonthefarm

oh crap I am the excecutar* of my parents will ..I hope when the time comes we can all sort it out between ourselves.
good luck with your situation! !

pwurple

Having just come through it myself for the second time, I'm convinced it's a job that nearly needs paying!

Official copies of death certificates going here there and everywhere. Trying to figure out life policies and pensions and bank accounts. Banks freezing accounts so you suddenly can't pay the blooming electricity bill.

And then trying to prep and clear a house for sale on top of everything else, with someone living in it, who doesn't want to go anywhere.

It's a big ask for anyone, and made 10 times worse if you are a beneficiary as well. I've changed my own will to have two executors, both friends, not family and assigned a fixed sum of money to them in my will from my savings to them, rather than proceeds of anything.

Hopefully that will make it easier for them. But I doubt it!

zl1whqvjs75cdy

Its so sad that the settling of estates causes so much fighting and nastiness, especially in families. Thankfully I haven't experienced many deaths in my family but there is always drama whenever there is one. I am so grateful its just me and my sister in our family so when the old pair do pass on it will hopefully be a smooth process. Last thing you need at a time of grieving is some dickhead looking for the family silver.

Jellybaby1

I think its wise to include a payment for the executors as its a huge responsibility, and one more thing we O & O's need to be aware of, as well as what to leave to whom!

niallb

I'm involved in a probate process at the moment, and the executor is not a beneficiary, but a family friend.
Having a separate executor is probably a good idea if there are a number of beneficiaries.
Makes it easier for them to remember it's the will of the deceased, and not the will of the beneficiaries that needs to be performed.

In this case there is a specific percentage of the estate assigned to the executor to pay for proceedings with a surplus left over for their personal use.
It's up to the person making the will who to select as an executor, but if you're at the stage of making one, make a specific provision for the executor!

Teagwee

Most of us would prefer to think that our families would never act in crass and callow ways after our deaths but in the last few years I've had my eyes opened in shock and horror at the behaviour of some people - the last thing I'd have expected from what I had previouslyconsidered to be decent, respectable, upright folk. Many of these were not short of a crust of their own but turned into selfish, avaricious monsters on the death of a relative with something to leave in a will.

Houses being emptied of valuables within hours of a funeral - long before an executor had a hope of cataloguing anything or apportioning appropriately. Claims that such and such an item belonged to them, was meant for their daughter/son, was only lent to the deceased etc. Disputes about family pets, jewellery, garden ornaments, holiday homes, where the grave ought to be - even how the grave was to be maintained into the future. I once witnessed a family feud start (still ongoing) over who should have a load of turf in an outhouse! The bitterness can be unbelievable

I know we're supposed to have all this sorted and allocated in advance, but if it's so hard for us to keep on top of it all when we're alive, pity the poor executor who has to navigate through this minefield and make judgements out of 6 different versions of events from interested parties. Some things can't realistically be sold/divided and that's's where many problems begin. You may think that you have it all sorted and written down - but have you recorded who will get the coal remaining in the shed or be responsible for the cat????

Mollywolly

I know exactly what you mean about crass behaviour Teagwee.

As I mentioned in an earlier post, my husband was executor for his aunt, who lived in the UK, which meant it was pretty awkward for him to deal with things. The aunt's remaining sister kept dropping hints about things that her children had been promised which drove me nuts! Every now and then we'd get a phone call, "did you see those two silver salt cellars - Dermot would like those as a memento" and "don't forget that Marie promised Brendan that he could have her car"......sheesh!

We had to go over a few times to keep a check on the house and systematically dispose of furniture and the like, but one time we went over and discovered two thumping great holes in the wall where an old pendulum clock had been hanging. The aunt's sister still had a key to the house (she lived on the same road) and had sent her husband down to remove it "as it was promised to Michael and I didn't want you throwing it out with the rubbish". :eek:

The husband was aware of this, but we were trying to leave most of the fixtures attached during the sale of the house, so it didn't look too shabby, and had every intention to take it down ourselves and pass it on once the house was sold.

The whole process made me despair in human nature, which is why I'm not looking forward to being my brother's executor either.

Jellybaby1

Teagwee wrote: »

...Houses being emptied of valuables within hours of a funeral - long before an executor had a hope of cataloguing anything or apportioning appropriately...

I just had a vision of that Steptoe & Son episode! Funny at the time, but not in real life. An elderly lady told me recently that she was 'getting shut of everything' and 'hated keeping anything' these days. I think she is in the process of making 'preparations'. Wise lady.

Teagwee

Amidst the doom and gloom in this thread, I remember one occasion after a death when all went reasonably smoothly, by accident and good leadership rather than design. The following is an option I'm thinking of putting into my will - I'm interested to see what others think.

The man who died lived in rented accommodation, so the house had to be cleared quickly straight after the funeral. This was handy, as all parties involved were still around. The executor took charge with a type of lottery and everything and everybody concerned was assembled for the event in 2 rooms and the hall on the ground floor. Everything was sorted into lots and labelled, with everyone (11 assorted adults & teens) pitching in.

A lottery then took place to establish the order of choosing and each individual was allowed to pick one thing/lot in turn until there was almost nothing left. The item(s) of choice had to be removed and/or stored somewhere else within 24 hours. The remaining stuff was then sorted into 3 further piles, recycling, charity shop and rubbish. Everything was cleared in less than 4 hours and there was no dissent or bad feeling.

I have too much fiddly stuff in my life to spend quality time deciding who gets what. I'd rather they chose what they wanted. I know this won't work for everything, but it should cover all but the major things like money, house and land, which I will deal with specifically for whoever I choose. If someone can't attend the sweepstake (asap after the funeral as possible) they can appoint a rep for themselves.

How would potential executors feel about this methodology? I'd appreciate any insight - I'm sure there are holes in my strategy

The Bishop Basher

Where there's a will....there's family.

jos28

I love the lottery idea Teagwee, I could just imagine all my friends and family drawing tickets for my jewellery and handbags when I'm gone. Hilarious !

annieoburns

Years ago a colleague who was one of 12 siblings told me of how his parents possessions were distributed. A valuer catalogued the contents and valued same. Then the siblings sat around table minus their spouses and chose in turn according to their age with the list circulating the table until all items that people wanted were chosen. This method meant that the oldest child had first pick and that all could see the value of each item and could chose it on that basis or a less valuable item if they wished it.

As for the duty of being an executor, I regard it as a final act of love for the person who died. I think a non family person should be adequately rewarded for the hassle involved. But I doubt if anyone who has not been involved in a probate realises what this might mean. What happens when a professional person is appointed such as a solicitor? Does he charge a percentage of the estate like an auctioneer or for his time ? Or is this an old fashioned idea from back in the day when the bank manager was a family friend.

changeling

This thread has really opened my eyes to all the work an executor has to do , particularly in my case, where my bro in law is executor of my dad's will. I now appreciate all the work that has to be done, but in my case I would appreciate some feedback as to our situation.

Apparently there are some problems at the moment as my dad didn't put anything in my mum's name (who is still with us) and as there is land involved there are some difficulties with boundaries or something. We (the children) aren't being informed of ANYTHING about what is happening, there are four children, myself, my two sisters and my brother. My eldest sister , however, whose husband is the executor, is privy to all the information. Her husband, the executor, apparently made five copies of the will , one each , for my mother and the four of us, which he promptly gave to my mother to hand out, which she has not done.

This means that my eldest sister now has all the information about the will but the rest of us are still in the dark. My mother has not been left alone since my dad died, we are all taking turns to go stay with her, but my eldest sister has been playing a cruel game leaving my mother alone when it was her turn to be there, in an effort to bully her into moving in with her. The whole situation smacks of unfairness, not to mention the total lack of respect the executor showed the rest of us by not handing to us, or in some way furnishing the rest of the siblings with a copy of the will, I realise he is not legally obliged to do this, but surely it is wrong to have one sibling in this position of power over the rest? I am thinking it is motivating her cruel and passive aggressive behaviour towards my elderly mother. And my sister is a doctor!!! I also don't understand why my mother is keeping the will from us.

Can I just add that I really am not interested in seeing the will, but the whole way this has been handled by the executor, plus the fact that his wife, my sister, know everything but the rest of us are kept in the dark, is really galling.