Noonan: Property Tax wont be used for Local Services

greenpilot

Just heard this on Today fm but I cannot find a link anywhere to it.

If this is true then we are all a bunch of fools.

:mad:

Can anyone shed any light on it?

markbld65

i heard it on another radio station too,

if its true and can be confirmed it 100% proves this goverment are out and out crooks

banana republic big time

byte

I sense a hint of surprise.

force eleven

Was on Newstalk - cant find a link - was it a Senan Molony story? In any case, I knew this would happen. Anyone who believed their 100 euro would go to help fund local services was misguided. Noonan had ringfenced that nice lump sum to help as part of the bail out and never guaranteed it would go to the councils. People need to wake up. Do not believe what they tell you, ever, with regards to finances.

markbld65

byte wrote: »

I sense a hint of surprise.

not a surprise as such more like a growing rage :mad:

if it is true then as a country we really need to do something about it, i don't know what but it's camels back and stray time me thinks

biko

As much was clear in December 2012

TDs furious that property tax won't be spent locally
http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/tds-furious-that-property-tax-wont-be-spent-locally-28946955.html
All the property taxes paid will go into a central pot, rather than being guaranteed to go to the respective areas.

Tin Foil Hat

What the fukk did ye expect?

Beruthiel

Didn't see that coming at all.
Totally shocked I am....

CardBordWindow

Policitians Screw Public in Shocking Twist from the Norm! :pac:

Davidth88

biko wrote: »

As much was clear in December 2012

TDs furious that property tax won't be spent locally
http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/tds-furious-that-property-tax-wont-be-spent-locally-28946955.html
All the property taxes paid will go into a central pot, rather than being guaranteed to go to the respective areas.

that is how I remembered it.

What they said IIRC was that if a certain area ( county ) had bad take up on the LPT then their funding would be reduced ... so it was stick not carrot.

Mint Sauce

Sure didn't we know that already.

The Backwards Man

Do people just pretend to be outraged at things that were always going to happen round here or what?

It gets a bit tiresome after a while.

force eleven

Well, when Rabbitte gets his broadcasting tax from you all, you CAN guarantee RTE mega stars like Marian and Pat will continue to get paid....

markbld65

lots of replys stating
surprised/shocked etc

yes i'm bloody surprised/shocked at their bare faced cheek , don't get me wrong i don't believe a word from them but this scam is just above the lot

and yet we see/hear all the corruption eg court case charges being quashed
current TD/junior minister up for defaulting on loans he took out only 2 years ago
the list is endless and not just this goverment past and present all the same

i honestly give up seriously just had enough of this crap from leinster house

keeponhurling

There was something in the news a few years back about our government bailing out some banks and their bondholders, so hence we need to raise cash in any way possible.

These billions that "we" have to repay have to come from somewhere

BeerWolf

biko wrote: »

All the property taxes paid will go into a central pot, rather than being guaranteed to go to the respective areas.

Home rules - land on free parking, get all the taxed money... :pac:

Gran Hermano

Meh, totally expected. Same as how the motor tax i pay to SDCC goes into a central fund to subsidise the likes of Leitrim county council.

Dum_Dum

What angers me more is that the political class are now at a stage that they feel comfortable enough to persistently lie and deceive in the full knowledge that nothing will come of it.

We sit here and take it. And they know it.

RiverOfLove

This news isn't a surprise to me.

What gets to me are the large number of peasants who follow them blindly and believe every word the government says, time and time and time again giving the government a license to do what they want, when they want to suit themselves and themselves and themselves.

MadameGascar

I don't think they ever said it was going towards local services, I think we were just threatened that local councils services would get even ****ter.

niallo27

We need another hunger striker.

Dravokivich

Dum_Dum wrote: »

What angers me more is that the political class are now at a stage that they feel comfortable enough to persistently lie and deceive in the full knowledge that nothing will come of it.

We sit here and take it. And they know it.

Did they ever claim it was for local amenities?

jimgoose

Frankly I am shocked and stunned that anyone could be shocked and stunned by this.

jimgoose

Gran Hermano wrote: »

Meh, totally expected. Same as how the motor tax i pay to SDCC goes into a central fund to subsidise the likes of Leitrim county council.

Well, I almost feel good about the bowel-evacuating amount of road tax I pay, because I recently got two new flyovers on the South Ring road in Cork, which saves me about ten minutes per day and about a fiver in de peteral a week. And all just for me!

death1234567

Quelle surprise. All tax goes into a central pot so the Minister's can have control over it. 'Ringfencing' is just spin used by the government to appease the masses.

Robbo

In before...

"It is unfair and beastly to tax a man's home. Moreover Brian O'Driscoll should have started the final Lions test. Also, some guy in the pub told me it was unconstitional and he should know these things, being an adequate replacement for a Supreme Court"

-- Enda Kenny addressing the Diet of Worms, Gettysburg 1852

Cantona's Collars

Dravokivich wrote: »

Did they ever claim it was for local amenities?

Over and over they made claims that it was for local amenities,they even went as far as sending out glossy flyers about it,so glad now that I didn't pay.

fishy fishy

the dogs on the street knew that.

when are people going to wise up and realise its all lies lies lies.

I wonder can people sue for their money back. After all, it is called a property tax

Cantona's Collars

I see the champions of this tax are very thin on the ground here this morning.

Kinzig

Comes as no shock..anyone think that the crowd of wasters in leinster house has any say over our finances is fooling themselves..weve been sold down the river , get used to more of it being shoved up your ass:pac::pac:

squod

To everyone who insisted this wouldn't happen in various property tax threads on boards........


In yer face people.

seamus

I'm waiting until someone actually posts up a relevant link before making any comment.

You know, cos commenting on something before you've even seen it is just plain stupid.

Like those idiots who tell you a movie is crap 3 months before it's even been released.

Irishcrx

Did anybody seriously believe that it would? And I mean really, did you think it was going to go to any kind of service.

I always just thought of it as another tax being forced on me to recoup money for our debt and that it was just called 'Property tax' could have been called 'popcorn tax' or 'Painting interier room in house tax' same idea, I'll never see any use of the money other than servicing debt.

It was just a way around not supercharging USC and income tax, the same way USC is income tax, they think were all muppets and by branching them all out we'll think were gaining something but it's really just all one big tax.

Next up.......Universal social media tax.

donegal_road

fool me once..shame on you etc

_Kaiser_

As I find myself saying an increasing amount lately (whenever the latest scandal/farce emerges from our "leaders")...

Remind me again why it's so important we have our Independence?

Cause it seems all we've managed to do with it was:

- first hand it to the Church for them to abuse generations of innocent kids, treat others as slave labour (and then give the same people a big F.U when called to pay for it), and hold the social development of the country back for decades

- then hand it to the EU who subsequently forced our gombeen teachers/lawyers/publican TD's to socialise private debt onto the next generation or two of Irish people

- elect the aforementioned gombeen TD's time and again thinking that something might change this time (flipping between FF and FG will never change this btw - two sides of the same coin.. they might as well merge and get it over with!), and whinging when they unsurprisingly fill their pockets with our taxes, as well as the pockets of their friends and relatives too of course!

- set up a system that's inefficient, hugely expensive and rotten to the core where everything runs on the "who you know" approach combined with the "ah shure it'll be grand.." attitude

Didn't even take 100 years to wreck the place either. I guess we achieved something anyway!

So again, why should we be let at the controls of a country again?

Jester252

Doesn't matter to me as the goverment doesn't supply anything in my area.

squod

Jester252 wrote: »

Doesn't matter to me as the goverment doesn't supply anything in my area.

They're supplying themselves with your wage packet.

Akrasia

Is Noonan talking about the 'property tax' that was brought in as an intermediate tax and is now gone, or the 'Household Charge' which is the current property tax?

On the household charge website, the banner of the website states
"Household Charge, Funding your local services"

https://www.householdcharge.ie/default.aspx

squod

Also.....Nessa Childers has resigned. Labour MEP quits.

Letter from Nessa Childers MEP to Eamon Gilmore TD

24 Jul 2013

24th July 2013

Dear Eamon,

I am writing to inform you of my resignation from the Labour party and to state my reasons for doing so.

I have increasingly found myself discouraged and prevented from advocating a distinctive social democratic position within the party. While I have remained constant in my views, the Labour leadership has drifted away from a progressive policy approach. My attitude is vilified as disloyal or opportunistic when, in fact, I am defending and promoting the party’s core values. For example, a particularly low point for me was when I was abandoned by the party leadership for taking a principled stance of opposition to the appointment to the EU Court of Auditors of Mr Kevin Cardiff, who was Secretary General of the Department of Finance when the bank bailout was decided on.

In 2009 I stood for election to the European Parliament in support of progressive and social democratic policies that were designed to put people, jobs and fairness at the heart of Europe. I stood for a progressive Europe, working in the interests of its people. In our manifesto, the number one priority was to safeguard jobs, create new ones and promote smart, environmentally sustainable growth.

I still believe in those principles and policies. Since my election, I have consistently worked in Europe and at home to support and achieve those aims. However, I believe that my ability to work for the policies I was elected on, and still support, is no longer compatible with membership of the party.

I did not support the decision to enter into coalition with Fine Gael in 2011 but I still hoped that Labour would shape its policy in accordance with our social democratic values and help bring the country back from bankruptcy and rebuild our economy in a way that would be fair and would support communities. I acknowledge that Labour ministers have done some good work. However, the government’s overall policy now seems to be one of never-ending, pointless austerity for austerity’s sake – a reckless pursuit of moveable economic targets that has failed on unemployment and emigration and is imposing unfair and frankly unsustainable pressures on hundreds of thousands of men, women and children. It is a policy of cutting services like health, education and social protection, while bankers, big corporates and the wealthy are allowed dodge their share of the burden.

This is a profoundly immoral way to run our country. It is not compatible with Labour’s traditional policies or with the manifesto on which I was elected with the Socialists and Democrats Group of the European Parliament. Unfortunately, the party leadership seems determined to pursue that course in the hope that ‘it will all sort itself out’ in time for an election in 2016, even though it has manifestly failed.

The policy of austerity is discredited in Europe and, increasingly, at home. Reputable bodies like TASC, the Nevin Economic Research Institute and Social Justice Ireland have demonstrated that there is a viable alternative to the policies of ‘slash and cut’:

no more cuts in public spending,
an increase in social protection,
make the wealthiest ten per cent pay more taxes,
make banks pay more through a Financial Transactions Tax,
make sure multinationals pay a minimum of 10% in profits tax,
and invest in a jobs/economic stimulus package.
Last April, I made an initial stand against the government’s direction by resigning from the Parliamentary Labour Party. I said that I no longer wanted to support a government that is implementing harmful, conservative policies and is actually hurting people. Since then, Labour’s failure in government has gone from bad to worse and the party has committed to even more austerity in the next Budget and beyond. Since that point I have experienced what could be termed a progressive destruction of hope that the situation would improve. Therefore I am following through on my earlier decision and from now on I intend to work independently within the Socialists and Democrats Group for the principles and policies I believe in.

Unlike the Labour leadership, I want to fight for a progressive and fairer alternative to austerity and I want to continue to work for it in the European Parliament with my Social Democratic colleagues. As you discovered recently in the negotiations on the EU Budget, the Parliament now has robust lawmaking powers and is arguably more influential on our lives than even the Dáil.

I know that there are many party members who believe as I do about government policy. I wish them well in their continuing membership of the party, and will continue to be available to them, and work with them, as their elected representative in Europe but, regrettably, I cannot remain in the party. For the sake of our people, it is critical that the 2014 elections to the Parliament are a first step in breaking the conservative free-marketers majority in the Parliament, the Council of Ministers and the Commission. That is what I plan to work and campaign for, and in next year’s European elections I will do so as an independent candidate within the European Socialists and Democrats Group.

Yours sincerely,

Nessa Childers MEP

bumper234

Didn't pay

http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQZkBs3VMxS0q64Kq8SjwgAQwTQ6MRewCJyNUzpwWEBBV6p-Sdp

bbam

squod wrote: »

To everyone who insisted this wouldn't happen in various property tax threads on boards........


In yer face people.

zerks wrote: »

I see the champions of this tax are very thin on the ground here this morning.

I'll come out and say I paid up.
I didn't chanpion the tax , nor did I come on insisting this farce definitely wouldn't happen..

I did beleive the lies that were spun about using local money to maintain local amenaties. I provide my own water and sewerage but we extensively use our local library, playgrounds etc.
In an effort to be an upstanding citizen I paid up..

I can't say that I'm shocked, I have memory enough that politicians can't really be trusted in anything they say.. I'm supprised in the openness in which it happens now, it seems very casual and easy for those in power to collect our money under false pretences, one wonders now was this the plan all along - they aren't really in a position to deny this was the intention, honesty and trustworthy aren't exactly what they are building a reputation of..

So what happens now ??

I shouted at the radio in my jeep quite a bit when I herd it... Moaned a bit over morning coffee.. Yet here I am at my desk as ever.. there in lies the problem!!
My bigest protest will be I'm done voteing. On anything, it seems to matter less what we do as there are no options to replace our current corrupt system with anyone, as those waiting in the wings are made of the dame dubious stuff..

donegal_road

its on the front of todays Daily Mail. I think this might decide things for me, we have been talking about moving out of the Ireland this last year or so.

seamus

donegal_road wrote: »

its on the front of todays Daily Mail. I think this might decide things for me, we have been talking about moving out of the Ireland this last year or so.

Can you post up something which actually contains readable text?

zerks wrote: »

I see the champions of this tax are very thin on the ground here this morning.

Very difficult to comment on something which doesn't exist.

squod

So last week we found out the Dept of Finance was aiding and abetting Quinn's Contracts for Difference gamble on Anglos share price, today we find out that Revenue is scamming people out of their money to give to some 'aul bank.

Whats next? Should PS workers just start roaming the streets in gangs and start mugging old dears for their pension?

It's time the Army took control of this place in some kind of military coup, 'till law and order is restored.

jimgoose

squod wrote: »

...Should PS workers just start roaming the streets in gangs and start mugging old dears for their pension?

That's hardly necessary, is it? There's an entire framework facilitating this already, and it's 100% legal!

donegal_road

seamus wrote: »

Can you post up something which actually contains readable text?Very difficult to comment on something which doesn't exist.

sorry Seamus, thats as clear as I can find it. I will take a photo of the front page when Im down in the shop and will post it up here in a while.

The sub-heading reads:

'All of the €175 million paid in property tax so far, is going towards our bailout debt, and not - as was promised - to fund badly needed local services.'

it goes on:

'Michael Noonan has admitted that the money has been kept in the state coffers and will be used to reduce the deficit. However as recently as January the Finance Minister insisted that the proceeds of the local property tax will be given to local authorities, and will support local services'

I am one or two words out, but that is the jist of it.

As I type this, there is a fella from the council taking pictures of the water meters and then he is taking a picture of each house.

Why is he taking a pic of the house and shouldn't he be asking my permission first? It's a private estate and the council have not taken over the road.

seamus

donegal_road wrote: »

'Michael Noonan has admitted that the money has been kept in the state coffers and will be used to reduce the deficit. However as recently as January the Finance Minister insisted that the proceeds of the local property tax will be given to local authorities, and will support local services'

I am one or two words out, but that is the jist of it.

Unfortunately the devil is in the details, I don't trust a journalist's reinterpretation of whatever has been said to represent the situation fairly.

I imagine that was Noonan has said is that €175m less will be paid to local authorities out of the central fund.

As I type this, there is a fella from the council taking pictures of the water meters and then he is taking a picture of each house.

Why is he taking a pic of the house and shouldn't he be asking my permission first?

You'll have to ask him what he's doing, but taking pictures in public is perfectly legal unless he's trying to take pictures of the inside of your house.

Ray Palmer

bumper234 wrote: »

Didn't pay

Yet. You won't avoid it and you will pay the fines.

squod

Ray Palmer wrote: »

Yet. You won't avoid it and you will pay the fines.

Jayzus........

mr kr0nik

jimgoose wrote: »

Frankly I am shocked and stunned that anyone could be shocked and stunned by this.

I am shocked and stunned that anyone could be shocked and stunned by people being shocked and stunned by this.