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Free hand shooting and ur reason for doing/ not doing it

  • 15-07-2013 1:28pm
    #1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,008 ✭✭✭


    Hey guys just reading true threads there seem to be a pattern of lad not taking free hand shots and relying on bipods and the likes . And just wondering what distances your comfortable taking shots at free hand or do u even try !

    When I'm lamping 85% of the shots taken would be free hand and with my set up I'd be very comfortable out to about 200 yards , with an instance kill shot .

    The last of these shots I can remember was a fox I shot at 140 yards free hand while running away from me up hill , I hit him in the rib cage on left side and exited just in front of right shoulder !

    I was always encouraged to take free hand shots when I use to shoot rabbit with my first magnum rifle and I think my confidence stems from that !

    I never use a bipod lamping and only ever use one deer stalking when I'm up on the mountain !

    Is it just that most of us shooting rifles never tryed or dont have the confidence in ours selves !


Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,249 ✭✭✭One shot on kill


    I never use a bipod I have one on the 243. But find it a bit small in the field. I'd always try lie down or rest the stock anyway.

    When you say free hand do you mean standin of the shoulder or what exactly.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,008 ✭✭✭TriggerPL


    I never use a bipod I have one on the 243. But find it a bit small in the field. I'd always try lie down or rest the stock anyway.

    When you say free hand do you mean standin of the shoulder or what exactly.

    Yea bud I mean standing off the shoulder , no using anything to prop my self !


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,249 ✭✭✭One shot on kill


    Hard done

    My best on I can remember was standing unaided hit a rabbit 130 paces away. I was very shakey. 100 yards maybe for me but if I had to. I'm not the best at it.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,008 ✭✭✭TriggerPL


    Hard done

    My best on I can remember was standing unaided hit a rabbit 130 paces away. I was very shakey. 100 yards maybe for me but if I had to. I'm not the best at it.

    That the point I was trying to make " is it that we don't do it enough or practice it enough and rely on aids "

    Don't get me wrong I was a long time getting the confidence I have in my self with a lot of missed rabbits but that the beauty of rabbits a miss means nothing as you will get another shot at them


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,082 ✭✭✭bravestar


    TriggerPL wrote: »
    Hey guys just reading true threads there seem to be a pattern of lad not taking free hand shots and relying on bipods and the likes . And just wondering what distances your comfortable taking shots at free hand or do u even try !

    When I'm lamping 85% of the shots taken would be free hand and with my set up I'd be very comfortable out to about 200 yards , with an instance kill shot .

    The last of these shots I can remember was a fox I shot at 140 yards free hand while running away from me up hill , I hit him in the rib cage on left side and exited just in front of right shoulder !

    I was always encouraged to take free hand shots when I use to shoot rabbit with my first magnum rifle and I think my confidence stems from that !

    I never use a bipod lamping and only ever use one deer stalking when I'm up on the mountain !

    Is it just that most of us shooting rifles never tryed or dont have the confidence in ours selves !

    I always try to use a proper shooting sling for things like this. As we are not in combat, and therefore don't HAVE to take shots, the little bit of time it takes to sling up I think is only fair to whatever quarry your shooting, out of respect and not wanting to blow its leg off.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,034 ✭✭✭✭It wasn't me!


    I'd say I can count on one hand the number of people I've seen at the range practising from anything other than prone off a bipod or sitting at the bench. From having practised shooting offhand, I know my limitations are pretty severe, so I certainly wouldn't be chancing anything much further than eighty or a hundred yards, but with practice that can certainly be extended quite a long way too. With a sling and from sitting though, I'm comfortable out to a fairly useful distance, and I carry sticks if i need to make a longer shot from standing.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,008 ✭✭✭TriggerPL


    bravestar wrote: »
    I always try to use a proper shooting sling for things like this. As we are not in combat, and therefore don't HAVE to take shots, the little bit of time it takes to sling up I think is only fair to whatever quarry your shooting, out of respect and not wanting to blow its leg off.

    Ur still not using anything like a car or post or shooting sticks so although ur using a sling ur still shooting unsupported as regard nothing station !

    Are you not ?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,008 ✭✭✭TriggerPL


    I'd say I can count on one hand the number of people I've seen at the range practising from anything other than prone off a bipod or sitting at the bench. From having practised shooting offhand, I know my limitations are pretty severe, so I certainly wouldn't be chancing anything much further than eighty or a hundred yards, but with practice that can certainly be extended quite a long way too. With a sling and from sitting though, I'm comfortable out to a fairly useful distance, and I carry sticks if i need to make a longer shot from standing.

    With my magnum it was alway under 100 yards but my 243 has a 6-24 victory scope which has really boosted my confidence in longer shots !


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,034 ✭✭✭✭It wasn't me!


    TriggerPL wrote: »
    Ur still not using anything like a car or post or shooting sticks so although ur using a sling ur still shooting unsupported as regard nothing station !

    Are you not ?

    You can use a properly set up sling to stabilise your hold a great deal when shooting standing.

    As to optics, I like much lower powered scopes for shooting from anything other than prone really. I also think field of view, which is obviously far better at low magnification, is a more important consideration than a lot of people seem to think. Rifle weight and balance is the most important thing for shooting from field positions to my mind. It needs to be light enough not to fatigue the muscles, including from carrying it, but heavy enough and with the weight properly distributed through the build to slow and steady the hold when aiming. If the rifle is moving too fast, shots are going to be snatched, same for excessive visible wobble. That's another reason to really like low-powered optics. High magnification creates a feedback loop. The more visible movement you perceive, the more you try to subconsciously correct for, and the more movement and momentum you introduce to the system, exacerbating the problem. You can hold steadier with less magnification as a result, and hit more reliably with more confident shot releases. For example, look at long distance target shooting with iron sights. From a sling, groups are possible with irons that are at least as good as those with optics, as there's not so much visual feedback to work against. The principle is well worth relating to sporting rifles as well.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,008 ✭✭✭TriggerPL


    You can use a properly set up sling to stabilise your hold a great deal when shooting standing.

    As to optics, I like much lower powered scopes for shooting from anything other than prone really. I also think field of view, which is obviously far better at low magnification, is a more important consideration than a lot of people seem to think. Rifle weight and balance is the most important thing for shooting from field positions to my mind. It needs to be light enough not to fatigue the muscles, including from carrying it, but heavy enough and with the weight properly distributed through the build to slow and steady the hold when aiming. If the rifle is moving too fast, shots are going to be snatched, same for excessive visible wobble. That's another reason to really like low-powered optics. High magnification creates a feedback loop. The more visible movement you perceive, the more you try to subconsciously correct for, and the more movement and momentum you introduce to the system, exacerbating the problem. You can hold steadier with less magnification as a result, and hit more reliably with more confident shot releases. For example, look at long distance target shooting with iron sights. From a sling, groups are possible with irons that are at least as good as those with optics, as there's not so much visual feedback to work against. The principle is well worth relating to sporting rifles as well.

    I totally agree my scope is never used above 12 power and nearly alway at 8 I was referring more to the fact those things are easier with a gud scope .


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,301 ✭✭✭yubabill1


    I shoot freehand when there is no other option. Mostly I like some kind of support - gate, fence etc. like everyone else.

    Found knee a good compromise for Irish conditions - gets you above the grass and out of the wet.

    Definitely recommend a sling for freehand. Col Jeff Cooper said it gives 33% accuracy improvement, I don't doubt it.

    The freehand shots are the most memorable, especially at running/moving quarry (and remember, a running fox at 20yds is more difficult than one at 200), but freehand should not be the first shot option IMHO.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,616 ✭✭✭FISMA


    TriggerPL,
    I am a big advocate of being able to lift and shoot a rifle using only the sling when deer hunting.

    I practice at most 100ya and believe that you should be able to hit a 8 or 10" paper plate consistently given seconds to lift, steady, and shoot.

    Many times in the field you'll get a shot at or inside of 100yards.
    Deploying sticks or bipod isn't always possible or recommended. I've spooked a few too while steadying sticks when I should have gone freehand.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 258 ✭✭silverfox1


    I would definitely agree that practice is the key. Also beginners should be encouraged to try shooting without bipods. When I bought my first rifle I was advised to put a bipod on. Which I did. I shot grand like that for a couple of years until I went after deer. Wicklow is not always the most comfortable places to have a lie down. Also deer are not always so obliging as to hang around till you set up your bipod and get into the prone position, so I try leave it off now. Not an easy thing to shake though when you get used to using one.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 284 ✭✭valerossi


    I shoot allot free hand and even with iron sights when my scope gets a knock or something. When I need a steady shot I use a trick my dad showed me which is stick your knife in a tree and rest the barrel on it or wrap your gun sling around your back and tension it with your elbow so the stock is pulled tight to your shoulder (don't no if the army showed him it or what), he also said never shoot offhand if you can rest your barrel, never shoot standing if you can go prone and so on and so on.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,082 ✭✭✭bravestar


    valerossi wrote: »
    I shoot allot free hand and even with iron sights when my scope gets a knock or something. When I need a steady shot I use a trick my dad showed me which is stick your knife in a tree and rest the barrel on it or wrap your gun sling around your back and tension it with your elbow so the stock is pulled tight to your shoulder (don't no if the army showed him it or what), he also said never shoot offhand if you can rest your barrel, never shoot standing if you can go prone and so on and so on.

    Sounds like what's called a hasty sling, and I use it when I don't have time to put my arm in the loop. Thumbs up to your dad, sling shooting seems to be somewhat of a lost art and I also have to agree with his thoughts on positions.

    The only thing, resting your barrel on something may affect your poi at extended ranges. I would rest the front fore end of the stock rather than the barrel itself.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 284 ✭✭valerossi


    bravestar wrote: »
    I always try to use a proper shooting sling for things like this. As we are not in combat, and therefore don't HAVE to take shots, the little bit of time it takes to sling up I think is only fair to whatever quarry your shooting, out of respect and not wanting to blow its leg off.

    Using every aid in the world will not ensure a clean kill. Knowing your limitations before hunting live game and never taking shots your not sure you will make is the height of respect for any game regardless how you choose to take the shot.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 284 ✭✭valerossi


    bravestar wrote: »
    Sounds like what's called a hasty sling, and I use it when I don't have time to put my arm in the loop. Thumbs up to your dad, sling shooting seems to be somewhat of a lost art and I also have to agree with his thoughts on positions.

    The only thing, resting your barrel on something may affect your poi at extended ranges. I would rest the front fore end of the stock rather than the barrel itself.

    He was the finest hunter I have ever met, knowledge that could only come from years of listening to others, perfect practice and patience. Shame I never wrote down all he thought me because when these men go so does most of their knowledge.
    Note to all young guns you no noting so shut up and listen haha no but seriously learn where you can and never shrug of advice


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,719 ✭✭✭German pointer


    I shoot free hand only when I cant get a good rest for the rifle. If I can use the bipod or some other support I do If not I do it free hand. The max I freehand the rabbits is about 50 to 60 yards and the deer is about 100 to 120 or there abouts. In saying that I shot 3 goats about a year or so ago squatting down resting my elbow on my knee. I shot all 3 in about 10 or 15 seconds while there were running away from me. IIRC the closeted one was about 100 yards and the furthest was about 130 or 140 yards away:D:D. I have also used the shoulder of my hunting buddy to rest the rifle from time to time.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,759 ✭✭✭cookimonster


    The majority of my shots are rested using natural rests or bipods, sticks etc and often fellow shooters shoulders.
    With out the use of aids such as bipods, sticks and rests I can certainly see my grouping and accuracy opening up as I move from prone to kneeling/sitting and standing.

    Just a point, both the HCAP and military shooting disciplines move from the prone position through the sitting / kneeling to standing as the distance to targets reduces.


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 28,696 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cass


    When I started shooting rifle I would have a bipod. The reason was the rifle was heavy as sin and free handed shots were almost impossible. As time has gone on and I got my set up lighter and more suited to hunting only. I've ditched the bipod, the high mag scope, and find my free handed shots are improving. I'm comfortable at 80 to 100 yards completely free hand but would push to 200 if in a kneeling position. Never bother with sticks. I'm basically training myself out of the target shooting mindset. My mate and my father are more hunting orientated shooters so their free hand shot is far better than mine with my Father taking a fox on Saturday night at 184 yards with the 243.
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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 163 ✭✭mike91


    Ive never taken a shot free hand I shoot foxes and the rifle is too heavy :( haha I want to get a sling now and practice since everybody is talkin about it take the bipod off Im sure it will help with the weight :)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,008 ✭✭✭TriggerPL


    mike91 wrote: »
    Ive never taken a shot free hand I shoot foxes and the rifle is too heavy :( haha I want to get a sling now and practice since everybody is talkin about it take the bipod off Im sure it will help with the weight :)

    What rifle are you using


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 163 ✭✭mike91


    TriggerPL wrote: »
    What rifle are you using

    Savage edge with a bushnell banner scope and a wildcat mod and a bipod :)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,008 ✭✭✭TriggerPL


    mike91 wrote: »
    Savage edge with a bushnell banner scope and a wildcat mod and a bipod :)

    Loose the bipod and start small lad work ur way up the edge is about 7lb in weight so it not a heavy rifle and the more ya practice the lighter it will feel .

    Just one bit of advice don't take stupid shots ur not happy with , there will alway be more foxs


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 163 ✭✭mike91


    TriggerPL wrote: »
    Loose the bipod and start small lad work ur way up the edge is about 7lb in weight so it not a heavy rifle and the more ya practice the lighter it will feel .

    Just one bit of advice don't take stupid shots ur not happy with , there will alway be more foxs
    its big to me ok >:[ hahaha yeah I will to be honest its the mod more than anythin it was ok before I got it although I still never took a shot free hand I think I will practice on targets first without the bipod and mod it should be fine but its very top heavy with the mod I will invest in a lighter one at some stage


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,008 ✭✭✭TriggerPL


    mike91 wrote: »
    its big to me ok >:[ hahaha yeah I will to be honest its the mod more than anythin it was ok before I got it although I still never took a shot free hand I think I will practice on targets first without the bipod and mod it should be fine but its very top heavy with the mod I will invest in a lighter one at some stage

    Practice with the mod ! Ul be using it in the Feild and remember you don't have to be shooting .5moa if you able to put bullets in and around an inch square then ur laughing !

    Ul remember ur first free hand kill I garrantee you !


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 163 ✭✭mike91


    TriggerPL wrote: »
    Practice with the mod ! Ul be using it in the Feild and remember you don't have to be shooting .5moa if you able to put bullets in and around an inch square then ur laughing !

    Ul remember ur first free hand kill I garrantee you !
    yeah I was going to leave on the mod and take off the bipod lookin forward to this now


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