Finally the Irish Justice system has gotten something right.

Probably has been covered already, but fair play to the High Court for not giving in to America -

High Court refuses US request for Snowden arrest warrant
Monday, July 08, 2013 - 05:45 PM

Ireland has denied the US an arrest warrant for whistleblower Edward Snowden in case he lands in the country, it has been revealed.

The High Court in Dublin ruled that Washington DC security chiefs failed to show where alleged crimes had been committed by the former intelligence contractor.

The US applied for a provisional arrest warrant on Friday through its Ballsbridge embassy.

Officials made the move after former spy Mr Snowden contacted 21 countries, including Ireland, seeking asylum.

There were concerns the fugitive intelligence officer, who has been living in the transit section of Moscow's Sheremetyevo-2 airport, would pass through Shannon Airport en route to South America.

A request for asylum in Ireland can only be considered if Snowden makes an application on arrival in the country.

Source: Irish Examiner

So, if Snowden manages to get over to here, do you think they'll follow through and grant him his asylum?

Fukuyama

boneyarsebogman wrote: »

Probably has been covered already, but fair play to the High Court for not giving in to America -



Source: Irish Examiner

So, if Snowden manages to get over to here, do you think they'll follow through and grant him his asylum?

If he got here I imagine he'd be on the next plane.

Fcuking with the US is the last thing Ireland needs.

bumper234

boneyarsebogman wrote: »

Probably has been covered already, but fair play to the High Court for not giving in to America -



Source: Irish Examiner

So, if Snowden manages to get over to here, do you think they'll follow through and grant him his asylum?

Not a chance, Irish gov would hand him over within 48 hours tops.

crazy cabbage

I would hope that we give him asylum if he does land here. Just because America is a big country doesn't mean that we can't stand up for what we believe is right.


Lets be clear. Obama passes a Whistleblower Protection Bill. I mean wtf????

Riddle101

If he's passing through, to get to South America then I think he could do it. If the court denied the arrest warrant, then he should be allowed to pass through. However, as far as living here goes it would be a big mistake. Not just for Snowden, but us as well for granting asylum.

Nolimits

Riddle101 wrote: »

If he's passing through, to get to South America then I think he could do it. If the court denied the arrest warrant, then he should be allowed to pass through. However, as far as living here goes it would be a big mistake. Not just for Snowden, but us as well for granting asylum.

I'd agree that it would be a bad idea to give him asylum. You know there would be a lot of pressure on US companies to get out of Ireland. Americans as we all know can be very nationalistic, I'm not sure it's worth the hassle.

And I hate myself for thinking that.

RobbingBandit

Someone should send him an Irish Passport, Ollie North and his friends used them in the 1980's, something tells me the USA goon squad have some nasty stuff in store for this guy and anyone that helps him.

If/when the do catch him if the put him in that hell hold on Cuba Obama should lose that Noble Peace Prize he got for promising to close it down.

BNMC

Don't bite the hand that feeds you.

oppenheimer1

boneyarsebogman wrote: »

Probably has been covered already, but fair play to the High Court for not giving in to America -



Source: Irish Examiner

So, if Snowden manages to get over to here, do you think they'll follow through and grant him his asylum?

It was ruled out only on a technicality. If the Americans get their request in order the high court will grant it.

bumper234

BNMC wrote: »

Don't bite the hand that feeds you.

Better to die on your feet than live on your knees:rolleyes:

Sir Humphrey Appleby

If the US refuse to deport Drumm and Dunne back here then we should grant Snowden asylum, after all they are harbouring two of our biggest crooks!

zenno

If the american government gives us any static, then all we have to do is deny american military rendition flights to refuel in shannon or any other part of this country and that will learn them. Maybe.

suicide_circus

bumper234 wrote: »

Better to die on your feet than live on your knees:rolleyes:

the battle cry of many a dead man

bumper234

suicide_circus wrote: »

the battle cry of many a dead man

Metaphorically speaking of course

Renegade Mechanic

Old and grey wrote: »

If the US refuse to deport Drumm and Dunne back here then we should grant Snowden asylum, after all they are harbouring two of our biggest crooks!

Exactly!!! Sounds like a fair exchange.

zenno

Renegade Mechanic wrote: »

Exactly!!! Sounds like a fair exchange.

But those two Irish fugitives will never spend time in prison even if we got them sent over.

Renegade Mechanic

Renegade Mechanic wrote: »

Exactly!!! Sounds like a fair exchange.

I'm not seeing the familiarities between Snowden and Drumm/Dunne.

jos28

Old and grey wrote: »

If the US refuse to deport Drumm and Dunne back here then we should grant Snowden asylum, after all they are harbouring two of our biggest crooks!

My sentiments entirely. I reckon we should grant Snowden temporary asylum and hang on to him while Enda rings Obama and arranges a swap.

Peregrine

Snowden won't look for asylum in Ireland, he's not stupid.

It would be unwise for him to seek and unwise for us to grand it.

jos28 wrote: »

My sentiments entirely. I reckon we should grant Snowden temporary asylum and hang on to him while Enda rings Obama and arranges a swap.

You would hand over a man who is wanted for only telling the truth to his country?

aloyisious

I've been wondering about Enda's statement last week when he was asked about Snowden seeking asylum from the Irish State and he (Enda) said Snowden would have to be in Ireland to do so. Could Snowden ask for asylum if he entered an Irish Embassy anywhere, let alone Moscow?

zenno

aloyisious wrote: »

I've been wondering about Enda's statement last week when he was asked about Snowden seeking asylum from the Irish State and he (Enda) said Snowden would have to be in Ireland to do so. Could Snowden ask for asylum if he entered an Irish Embassy anywhere, let alone Moscow?

Good point, I always assumed you can get asylum in any embassy if you asked, but snowden doesn't have a passport so not sure how that would play out.

Sir Humphrey Appleby

Deleted User wrote: »

I'm not seeing the familiarities between Snowden and Drumm/Dunne.

Snowden is accussed of being a traitor, the other two are traitors!

zenno

Old and grey wrote: »

Snowden is accussed of being a traitor, the other two are traitors!

Absolutely 100% correct.

Cody Pomeray

boneyarsebogman wrote: »

Probably has been covered already, but fair play to the High Court for not giving in to America

It's not a matter of giving into America. The superior courts take questions of fundamental rights very seriously in this country, arguably moreso than most other European states. Personal liberty is about as serious as a fundamental right gets.

In fact, the way in which fundamental or other constitutional rights are taken so seriously in this country is probably why so many people sigh at some decisions, or feel that judges are out of touch.

It's hard to imagine that this decision was anything other than inevitable.

Gatling

zenno wrote: »

If the american government gives us any static, then all we have to do is deny american military rendition flights to refuel in shannon or any other part of this country and that will learn them. Maybe.

They'd laugh at us

zenno

Gatling wrote: »

They'd laugh at us

They can laugh all they like because Irish law on asylum supersedes the US intervention on our laws.

Great work the judge done in explaining this...... Judge Colm Mac Eochaidh refused the request for an arrest warrant on the grounds that no information had been given by the US authorities about where the alleged offences took place.

The ruling also stated that the decision was taken because the US failed to show where the theft of government property took place or what had been stolen.

Peregrine

zenno wrote: »

If the american government gives us any static, then all we have to do is deny american military rendition flights to refuel in shannon or any other part of this country and that will learn them. Maybe.

And Shannon Airport will be a worse position than it is now


Shut down one of our largest airports with the longest runway on the island and the only airport other than Dublin to have transatlantic flights and put more of our people out of jobs..that'll teach 'em!

clairefontaine

Well done Ireland!

Nimrod 7

Nimrod 7 wrote: »

And Shannon Airport will be a worse position than it is now


Shut down one of our largest airports with the longest runway on the island and the only airport other than Dublin to have transatlantic flights and put more of our people out of jobs..that'll teach 'em!

All great rivers have a source.

zenno

Nimrod 7 wrote: »

And Shannon Airport will be a worse position than it is now


Shut down one of our largest airports with the longest runway on the island and the only airport other than Dublin to have transatlantic flights and put more of our people out of jobs..that'll teach 'em!

?. I don't get you. Who said anything about shutting down shannon airport, all you would be doing is shutting down american military rendition flights from refuelling at said airport, all other flights from america will be as is.

KingOfFairview

Gatling wrote: »

They'd laugh at us

Well, they can laugh at us all they like but if they forcibly land warplanes here to refuel they are invading us and are at war with us. don't think they'll do that somehow.

Dave!

Sounds like it was just declined on the basis of a technicality. They'll apply again, it'll be approved, and order will be restored to the universe.

zenno

Dave! wrote: »

Sounds like it was just declined on the basis of a technicality. They'll apply again, it'll be approved, and order will be restored to the universe.

Just NO.

CastingCouch

Fair play.

Pat Mustard

Edward Snowden has obviously revealed the Prism thingy and the world is outraged at the USA. Fair enough.

The Brits have been at this eavesdropping lark for years with Echelon, except my limited understanding is that it had to do with phone calls. I'm not saying that it's right. It's not. It's completely unacceptable.

Despite that fact that what the USA has done is unacceptable, do people not see that it is also wrong that Snowden has informed on his own country?

If somebody is working to assist the defence of their country, shouldn't they keep their mouths shut and attempt to use proper channels to protest, or simply resign if they can't agree with what's going on?

Even in Ireland, Civil Servants have to sign Official Secrets Act declarations. Maybe not all of them, I don't know.

I think that Snowden did wrong by his own country.

Frank Black

We're just trying to lure him over so that when he gets off the plane - BAM!
We knock the traitorous mo-fo upside the head, shackle him, drive him over to the Google offices, call up the American ambassador, get them to come over, Enda's gets photo-op with him standing with foot planted on his head like a big-game hunter as he's handed back.
It's going to be beautiful.

Dave!

The Mustard wrote: »

Edward Snowden has obviously revealed the Prism thingy and the world is outraged at the USA. Fair enough.

The Brits have been at this eavesdropping lark for years with Echelon, except my limited understanding is that it had to do with phone calls. I'm not saying that it's right. It's not. It's completely unacceptable.

Despite that fact that what the USA has done is unacceptable, do people not see that it is also wrong that Snowden has informed on his own country?

If somebody is working to assist the defence of their country, shouldn't they keep their mouths shut and attempt to use proper channels to protest, or simply resign if they can't agree with what's going on?

Even in Ireland, Civil Servants have to sign Official Secrets Act declarations. Maybe not all of them, I don't know.

I think that Snowden did wrong by his own country.

Ehh, "the country" is more than the government and security agencies. Doesn't he also have an obligation to the citizens of the country, and indeed the world, to let them know that they're being spied on without their knowledge or consent? Seems to me that keeping your mouth shut is what would be doing wrong by your country.

zenno

The Mustard wrote: »

Edward Snowden has obviously revealed the Prism thingy and the world is outraged at the USA. Fair enough.

The Brits have been at this eavesdropping lark for years with Echelon, except my limited understanding is that it had to do with phone calls. I'm not saying that it's right. It's not. It's completely unacceptable.

Despite that fact that what the USA has done is unacceptable, do people not see that it is also wrong that Snowden has informed on his own country?

If somebody is working to assist the defence of their country, shouldn't they keep their mouths shut and attempt to use proper channels to protest, or simply resign if they can't agree with what's going on?

Even in Ireland, Civil Servants have to sign Official Secrets Act declarations. Maybe not all of them, I don't know.

I think that Snowden did wrong by his own country.

Firstly, his release of this information was targeted to US citizens of which is more important than the corrupt government they have now and is, and was, the correct approach.

The government of the united states are already traitors to the US citizen in my opinion spying on their own people, all snowden done was educate and inform his people of what it's corrupt government was doing to it's people.

I'd shake the mans hand if i ever bumped into him.

Cienciano

bumper234 wrote: »

Better to die on your feet than live on your knees:rolleyes:

It depends. Hypothetically, imagine Obama or the US Senete could pass a bill that closed any loophole that made Ireland an attractive place for american companies to base offices. They give Enda a call and say they'll pass it if we give Snowden asylum. Don't, and things will stay the same. Is it really worth it?

Pat Mustard

To be honest, I didn't think that too many people were going to agree with me.

I just wondered if anybody else did.

I can see that Snowden may have done what might popularly be agreed to be the right thing.

I may have a particularly tribal outlook when it comes to these things compared to others, I don't know. I may not have a million principles, but among those that I have is loyalty to friends, family, work colleagues and clients/customers.

I can accept that what he did was for what he regarded as the greater good of mankind. But I can't agree with what he did because he informed on his own country. I can't accept that.

I would imagine that most of the world's powers are up to the same thing. Of course it is wrong. But if you don't agree with it, don't join the intelligence industry or the Army or anything to do with defence. These people are not Care Bears. They are there to defend their country.

clairefontaine

The Mustard wrote: »

Edward Snowden has obviously revealed the Prism thingy and the world is outraged at the USA. Fair enough.

The Brits have been at this eavesdropping lark for years with Echelon, except my limited understanding is that it had to do with phone calls. I'm not saying that it's right. It's not. It's completely unacceptable.

Despite that fact that what the USA has done is unacceptable, do people not see that it is also wrong that Snowden has informed on his own country?

If somebody is working to assist the defence of their country, shouldn't they keep their mouths shut and attempt to use proper channels to protest, or simply resign if they can't agree with what's going on?

Even in Ireland, Civil Servants have to sign Official Secrets Act declarations. Maybe not all of them, I don't know.

I think that Snowden did wrong by his own country.

I can see what you are saying.

But he is a patriot, saving Americans from their own government when it crosses too many lines. See Thomas Paine.

Saab Ed

Riddle101 wrote: »

If he's passing through, to get to South America then I think he could do it. If the court denied the arrest warrant, then he should be allowed to pass through. However, as far as living here goes it would be a big mistake. Not just for Snowden, but us as well for granting asylum.

My bollocks it would. Money runs America and too many influential people might be pissed off if we get fcuked around too, never forget that. They run money through Ireland like water down a river. We'd get a very public drubbing down and that's it.

clairefontaine

The Mustard wrote: »

To be honest, I didn't think that too many people were going to agree with me.

I just wondered if anybody else did.

I can see that Snowden may have done what might popularly be agreed to be the right thing.

I may have a particularly tribal outlook when it comes to these things compared to others, I don't know. I may not have a million principles, but among those that I have is loyalty to friends, family, work colleagues and clients/customers.

I can accept that what he did was for what he regarded as the greater good of mankind. But I can't agree with what he did because he informed on his own country. I can't accept that.

I would imagine that most of the world's powers are up to the same thing. Of course it is wrong. But if you don't agree with it, don't join the intelligence industry or the Army or anything to do with defence. These people are not Care Bears. They are there to defend their country.

I would wholeheartedly agree with you if the cia and the police werent increasingly militarised.

Ash.J.Williams

Frank Black wrote: »

We're just trying to lure him over so that when he gets off the plane - BAM!
We knock the traitorous mo-fo upside the head, shackle him, drive him over to the Google offices, call up the American ambassador, get them to come over, Enda's gets photo-op with him standing with foot planted on his head like a big-game hunter as he's handed back.
It's going to be beautiful.

Enda at the airport with a bowl of shamrock "cead meeeela failte Eddy" "get em in the bag" then off to guantanamo

Ash.J.Williams

Shatter has already told them to reapply, the judge practically told them it was a minor technicality, which he could have turned a blind eye to.

coolhull

Old and grey wrote: »

If the US refuse to deport Drumm and Dunne back here then we should grant Snowden asylum, after all they are harbouring two of our biggest crooks!

There is no warrant out for Drumm or Dunne, and I doubt if the Government wants one. Too many skeletons in the cupboard.......

Pat Mustard

clairefontaine wrote: »

I can see what you are saying.

But he is a patriot, saving Americans from their own government when it crosses too many lines. See Thomas Paine.

Just googled him so I have a snapshot rather than anything in depth.

I wasn't aware of his standpoint against tyranny.

Interesting view from a man who is regarded as a US patriot.

zenno

The Mustard wrote: »

To be honest, I didn't think that too many people were going to agree with me.

I just wondered if anybody else did.

I can see that Snowden may have done what might popularly be agreed to be the right thing.

I may have a particularly tribal outlook when it comes to these things compared to others, I don't know. I may not have a million principles, but among those that I have is loyalty to friends, family, work colleagues and clients/customers.

I can accept that what he did was for what he regarded as the greater good of mankind. But I can't agree with what he did because he informed on his own country. I can't accept that.

I would imagine that most of the world's powers are up to the same thing. Of course it is wrong. But if you don't agree with it, don't join the intelligence industry or the Army or anything to do with defence. These people are not Care Bears. They are there to defend their country.

I would say, what he did was inform his country's citizens on a spying operation that is being used against it's people. Logic comes to mind.

Pat Mustard

zenno wrote: »

I would say, what he did was inform his country's citizens on a spying operation that is being used against it's people. Logic comes to mind.

Yes, he did. And considering that what the USA is doing is wrong, there is certainly a strong argument to be made in his favour.

He also betrayed his own country and broke US law to reveal the information.

He gave up his own country, his own employers, which is something that I think is wrong for a person in a position of responsibility regarding national defence.

Whether or not the public is glad that the news has broken, I don't think that it was Snowden's place to decide to give up the information. I think that a person working as a soldier or working somehow connected to national defence has to do his job rather than sacrificing his duty in favour of his own personal beliefs.

I am curious to know what US citizens think of what he did.

zenno

The Mustard wrote: »

Yes, he did. And considering that what the USA is doing is wrong, there is certainly a strong argument to be made in his favour.

He also betrayed his own country and broke US law to reveal the information.

He gave up his own country, his own employers, which is something that I think is wrong for a person in a position of responsibility regarding national defence.

Whether or not the public is glad that the news has broken, I don't think that it was Snowden's place to decide to give up the information. I think that a person working as a soldier or working somehow connected to national defence has to do his job rather than sacrificing his duty in favour of his own personal beliefs.

I am curious to know what US citizens think of what he did.

He didn't break any law whatsoever. What law did he break, what crime did he unjustly do ? As was said by the Judge "again".....

Judge Colm Mac Eochaidh refused the request for an arrest warrant on the grounds that no information had been given by the US authorities about where the alleged offences took place.

The ruling also stated that the decision was taken because the US failed to show where the theft of government property took place or what had been stolen.

I don't think that it was Snowden's place to decide to give up the information

Someone had to do it so why not himself.

hfallada

Ireland wanted an American citizen arrested and sent to Ireland as he helped in a assisted suicide of a depressed women. The us state decided they didn't want to grant it as assisted suicide was legal in that state. I finally glad a court is showing america that extraditions can't system where America gets people they want, but never hand over anyone