Lamb Faecal Samples Results

Conmaicne Mara

grassroot1 wrote: »

The testing is the problem area our lambs showed up not worm eggs (zero) before and after testing. I would not read in too much to the report in the journal, just lads trying to justify the expence they put farmers to

I don't think so, there are significant problems if you ask NZ farmers, to the point where chemists need to specially mix different drug families to get worm doses to work at all.

I found the test good and intend to do more testing. Prefer to know I don't have an issue and not treat for it, than throwing money back a lambs throat when it's either not needed or it won't work.

Will be trying out a white (forgotten the technical name right now, tired) wormer this year. Used Chanaverm + last year and test says it's effective on my farm.

grassroot1

No con I am not disagreeing with the need for testing, we get ours done as routine saves a lot of money but the lab we use did not have the experience.
The department has used these tests for the figures in their survey and I have not confidence in them.

Conmaicne Mara

Just home from our STAP meeting, a bit on coccidiosis. I acted in haste last year on the above FEC results and bought vecoxan. Apparently there was no need to as after ten weeks of age lambs have developed an immunity to coccidiosis. Dosing them with vecoxan when there's no need to hurts their immunity to it.

Username John

Conmaicne Mara wrote: »

Just home from our STAP meeting, a bit on coccidiosis. I acted in haste last year on the above FEC results and bought vecoxan. Apparently there was no need to as after ten weeks of age lambs have developed an immunity to coccidiosis. Dosing them with vecoxan when there's no need to hurts their immunity to it.

I disagree - had older lambs get a bad dose of coccidia last summer in the dry weather.

FEC done mid august on march born lambs gave a result of "Coccidia - TNTC" (TNTC = too numerous to count)

razor8

Username John wrote: »

I disagree - had older lambs get a bad dose of coccidia last summer in the dry weather.

FEC done mid august on march born lambs gave a result of "Coccidia - TNTC" (TNTC = too numerous to count)

Agreed but I would think if they are clean up to 10 weeks then they are ok, but if they are dirty at 5/8 weeks and not done until 10 it will build up over that time.

Like yourself UJ I had lambs with it last year into August, some needed two doses, it's something that needs to be tackled early to prevent massive build ups, will be keeping a watchful eyes from now on and fec if they show signs

eire23

Dung sampled my replacement ewe lambs during the week and they came back 150 for strongyle and 200 for nemotidirus.
What are peoples thoughts on this, would they need a dose? Been 5-6 weeks since their last dose.

rangler1

eire23 wrote: »

Dung sampled my replacement ewe lambs during the week and they came back 150 for strongyle and 200 for nemotidirus.
What are peoples thoughts on this, would they need a dose? Been 5-6 weeks since their last dose.

150 is low for strongyle, we don't dose till they're 500, but we do dose if there's any nematodirus present.
Opinions differ, Teagasc say that nema only affects them up to 10-12 weeks,
yet we get farmers coming here with dung samples saying they have lost a few older lambs and the lab diagnosed nematodirus and there could be a good few deaths in a few days, hopefully greysides will advise

Cran

rangler1 wrote: »

150 is low for strongyle, we don't dose till they're 500, but we do dose if there's any nematodirus present.
Opinions differ, Teagasc say that nema only affects them up to 10-12 weeks,
yet we get farmers coming here with dung samples saying they have lost a few older lambs and the lab diagnosed nematodirus and there could be a good few deaths in a few days, hopefully greysides will advise

My vet recommended dosing at over 300 for Strongyle, always worked off the 500 previously what do people think? My sample this week came back with Cocci oocysts present as they are just 14 weeks is it correct not to dose as immunity should be present? Also had Moniezia expansa eggs present.

greysides

rangler1 wrote: »

150 is low for strongyle, we don't dose till they're 500, but we do dose if there's any nematodirus present.
Opinions differ, Teagasc say that nema only affects them up to 10-12 weeks,
yet we get farmers coming here with dung samples saying they have lost a few older lambs and the lab diagnosed nematodirus and there could be a good few deaths in a few days, hopefully greysides will advise

Just read through this thread. While I personally like sheep I deal very little with them so I'm not as up to date as I might otherwise be. Just bear that in mind with my comments, bring up anything that doesn't smell right and I'll check it out as best as possible.

To give my opinion on the above: I would be dubious about ascribing an age to when animals are no longer affected by one species or another. There may be rules of thumb but the exceptions can be significant. Nematodirus is known to affect animals outside of the normal spring time. Immunity to coccidia will depend on exposure so what happens if exposure occurs at an older age than normal?

Vecoxan is a preventative. It works similarly to Imizol for Redwater. Stops the organism in it's tracks without killing it while the immune system catches up and takes over. An effect like vaccination but without any immune-generating material in the medicine. This means that the environment must provide the material. Mistiming the administration means its' effects may be over before exposure occurs, or its' given too late and ..... it's not a treatment.

Another confounding issue with coccidia is that not all species present in an animal are pathogenic. Some of those counts may well be counting eggs from apathogenic species. The lab has/may have a way to differentiate the species but that's not done as standard.

Just to pick up a point made earlier, the eggs when they leave the animal develop on the ground and hatch to produce an L1 larva which develops into an L2. The L2 live in the droplets of moisture on grass, rising and falling on the blade of grass as the heat of the day develops and wanes. They are ingested with the grass.

Moniezia species are generally regarded as apathogenic but no doubt there may be exceptions too. They are not the tapeworm picked up from dogs which exists in sheep in a 'juvenile' form; they are in sheep in an 'adult' form, the intermediate host is an Orbatid pasture mite living in the grass matt.

eire23

rangler1 wrote: »

150 is low for strongyle, we don't dose till they're 500, but we do dose if there's any nematodirus present.
Opinions differ, Teagasc say that nema only affects them up to 10-12 weeks,
yet we get farmers coming here with dung samples saying they have lost a few older lambs and the lab diagnosed nematodirus and there could be a good few deaths in a few days, hopefully greysides will advise

Might as well give them a dose so, cheers rangler

rangler1

eire23 wrote: »

Might as well give them a dose so, cheers rangler

As I say your strongyle is low for 5 or 6 weeks dosed....did you use cydectin or are you grazing them with cattle.
200 is a high count for Nematodirus. Teagasc say they should have immunity at that age
We're probably too particular

eire23

rangler1 wrote: »

As I say your strongyle is low for 5 or 6 weeks dosed....did you use cydectin or are you grazing them with cattle.
200 is a high count for Nematodirus. Teagasc say they should have immunity at that age
We're probably too particular

No only sheep here, no cattle at all. They got a white drench last time,oxfencare i think it was. Meant to have been a clear drench but had none to hand so went with the white, would you go with a yellow drench now and leave the clear one till later on?

rangler1

eire23 wrote: »

No only sheep here, no cattle at all. They got a white drench last time,oxfencare i think it was. Meant to have been a clear drench but had none to hand so went with the white, would you go with a yellow drench now and leave the clear one till later on?

First drench of the year here is a cheap white dose every year ( targeting nematodirus only in may) after that we stick to whatever dose is set for that year, it's the turn of the clear dose here this year, next year we'll use the white right through the year, just simpler that way.
But switching them in the year works the same, any of them will work on nematodirus so just use the cheapest, might be better to leave the clear till last when there'd be more strongyle about

rachmartin33

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/89463147#Comment_89463147

That makes a lot of sense. Resistance is definitely becoming a bigger issue, especially here in NZ where farmers have relied heavily on drenches for years. Doing regular fecal egg count tests is the smartest way to go—you know exactly what you’re dealing with and avoid wasting money on treatments that won’t work. Sounds like you’ve got a good handle on it.

rachmartin33

Good approach. The “white” drenches are the benzimidazoles, and rotating them with other families can definitely help manage resistance. Since your tests show Chanaverm+ is still effective on your farm, that’s a win. It’s great you’re taking the testing route instead of blanket drenching—it’s better for the sheep, the pasture, and long-term resistance management.