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Is the "friend zone" concept a bit sexist?

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  • 01-07-2013 10:54am
    #1
    karaokeman
    Registered Users Posts: 3,328 ✭✭✭


    I was thinking about this recently because you always hear about girls putting guys in the friend zone because they waited too long to ask them out and not the other way around.

    I know a lot of guys can take 8 months to ask an attractive girl out due to shyness, but if its the other way around people always tell the guy he's in the friend zone.

    But it is not a matter of a person saying "You waited too long, I'm not attracted to you anymore". If they turn you down, its because they never liked you more than a friend to begin with, I think anyway.

    Personally I think the friend zone is hypothetical as a concept, it is a nice way of telling someone the object of their attraction doesn't love them back. It is a way of encouraging guys to be more confident and assertive with women, that is why it is always said to guys and never to girls.


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    #2
    Rev Hellfire
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,346 ✭✭✭Rev Hellfire


    I thought the point about the 'friend zone' is that the individual puts themselves into it. They're in the friend zone because they never made the move.

    Since men are the ones who society expects to make the initial move they're the ones who get stuck it.


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    #3
    OnTheCouch
    Registered Users Posts: 526 ✭✭✭OnTheCouch


    karaokeman wrote: »
    But it is not a matter of a person saying "You waited too long, I'm not attracted to you anymore". If they turn you down, its because they never liked you more than a friend to begin with, I think anyway.

    I think the above is for some reason not publicised very much as being a reason for girls turning someone down.

    On the other hand, there are unquestionably situations where a girl does feel attraction for someone, but he, for whatever reason, doesn't get round to asking her out. This subsequently tends to cool the initial spark as he comes across as indecisive. Which inevitably leads him being put in the friend zone or simply not be a part of her life any longer.


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    #4
    Dravokivich
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Music Moderators, Politics Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 22,360 CMod ✭✭✭✭Dravokivich


    What I don't get is why such a literal definition of boundaries such as "Friend Zone" is required. I understood it as something that started of from a joke but whenever I read about it here on boards it sounds like a very serious thing. One which is considered problematic as well.


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    #5
    iwantmydinner
    Registered Users Posts: 3,246 ✭✭✭iwantmydinner


    I'm a girl, and I've definitely been friendzoned on occasion. I've also been the friendzoner (!) once or twice. It's usually (I hazard a guess) due to one party simply not liking the other in any way other than as a friend - not so much because one took too long to ask the other out. Don't think it could really be called sexist tbh!

    That's just my two cents anyway!


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    #6
    Starokan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 746 ✭✭✭Starokan


    I think its just a phrase thats become generally used; i would not see it as sexist.


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    #7
    jaffacakesyum
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,207 ✭✭✭jaffacakesyum


    I don't think it's sexist, I just think it's a stupid excuse people (generally men) use as to why they're not with the person they fancy. I've never friendzoned anybody; I could claim I've been friendzoned but I know it's not true - it's simply that the other person didn't feel the same way about me, regardless of how long we've known each other or how late I made the move.


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    #8
    entropi
    Moderators, Education Moderators Posts: 21,730 Mod ✭✭✭✭entropi


    The "friend zone" is a fallacy imho. I honestly believe it was created by PUA types to promote their mostly useless ways of trying to get a woman interested in you, and if you leave it too long "you're in the friend zone". I call bull tbh.

    You can only go about this two ways: you're interested in someone for more than a platonic relationship, or you're not. Reciprocation is all that is needed. It really is that simple, but so much labelling happens that it seems to have stuck as a needless indicator that they don't find you sexually attractive.


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    #9
    Malari
    Registered Users Posts: 18,150 ✭✭✭✭Malari


    I think there's something to it if neither party makes a move, in terms of the risk of losing a friend if things don't work out when you try to take a further step.

    But that would mean both people were in the friendzone. I see it as a noun more than a verb.


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    #10
    cantdecide
    Registered Users Posts: 11,465 ✭✭✭✭cantdecide


    I think the 'friendzone' phenomenon may often point to a personality type. The friendzone guy. You should only worry if you often find yourself in the friendzone. It would be very frustrating to be there over and over and I'm sure it can lead to stresses in one's other relationships.

    Sexism doesn't come into it.


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    #11
    karaokeman
    Registered Users Posts: 3,328 ✭✭✭karaokeman


    Dravokivich wrote: »
    What I don't get is why such a literal definition of boundaries such as "Friend Zone" is required. I understood it as something that started of from a joke but whenever I read about it here on boards it sounds like a very serious thing. One which is considered problematic as well.

    It happened in an episode of Friends, Ross wanted to ask Rachel out and Joey was like "you waited too long to make your move and now your in the 'friend zone'". I wouldn't think this was the earliest example (1994), but I know it made the phrase a lot more popular.


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    #12
    seachto7
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,863 ✭✭✭seachto7


    It's hanging around with exes I don't get. I just don't get it. But the Friend Zone is a load of auld tosh as well.
    I had female work colleagues, who I would go for lunch with or work nights out, but I wouldn't hang around with then, simply because they weren't my friends. If I were attracted to them, I wouldn't have done anything about it anyhow as they were work colleagues.

    "I liked you, but you never did anything about it" is what you would hear a lot of ladies say. Well, I would say that's their loss they never did anything about it.

    Friend zone is a no-no..... It can't work if one person is attracted to the other.


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    #13
    Galwayguy35
    Registered Users Posts: 16,349 ✭✭✭✭Galwayguy35


    I've a different take on the friend zone, was seeing someone for the past 2 months and got a txt last night saying "lets just be friends".


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    #14
    OnTheCouch
    Registered Users Posts: 526 ✭✭✭OnTheCouch


    Galwayguy35 wrote: »
    I've a different take on the friend zone, was seeing someone for the past 2 months and got a txt last night saying "lets just be friends".

    Would that not be more a case of her wanting to let you down gently? Like she was attracted to you initially but for whatever reason the spark had diminished.

    I think the 'friend zone' is slightly different, insofar as there either was never any attraction or he never asked her out, which I imagine is not the same as your situation.

    Sorry to hear that by the way, it's always fairly tough to hear something along those lines.


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    #15
    seachto7
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,863 ✭✭✭seachto7


    Galwayguy35 wrote: »
    I've a different take on the friend zone, was seeing someone for the past 2 months and got a txt last night saying "lets just be friends".

    My response to that would be "No thanks. I already have lots of friends."


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    #16
    Pawwed Rig
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 22,316 CMod ✭✭✭✭Pawwed Rig


    OnTheCouch wrote: »
    it's always fairly tough to hear something along those lines.

    By text aswell :confused:.


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    #17
    seachto7
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,863 ✭✭✭seachto7


    Yup, but my thoughts on that would be "f*ck em" (not literally!). A bit harsh maybe, but in a few months, you'll have wondered what all the fuss was about....


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    #18
    Earthhorse
    Registered Users Posts: 14,714 ✭✭✭✭Earthhorse


    Dravokivich wrote: »
    What I don't get is why such a literal definition of boundaries such as "Friend Zone" is required. I understood it as something that started of from a joke but whenever I read about it here on boards it sounds like a very serious thing. One which is considered problematic as well.

    I think the reason it's talked about so much is because it's one of those phrases that had a specific meaning but is now used to describe almost any situation where attraction is not reciprocated. It was originally used to describe waiting too long to tell someone you know that you're attracted to them; you had a chance during that early timeframe as they found you attractive too but due to your hesitancy they decided to move on. Nothing wrong with that but a frustrating position to be in nonetheless.

    I think like most labels it's useful when used with care but due to the massive brainpuke that is the internet it's been blunted, like the terms "nice guy" and "feminist", and basically now means whatever the person saying it wants it to mean.
    entropi wrote: »
    The "friend zone" is a fallacy imho. I honestly believe it was created by PUA types to promote their mostly useless ways of trying to get a woman interested in you, and if you leave it too long "you're in the friend zone". I call bull tbh.

    Pretty sure the phrase pre-dates PUA stuff tbh.


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    #19
    iptba
    Registered Users Posts: 4,876 ✭✭✭iptba


    I think the "friend zone" phenomenon can occur, although have no idea what percentage of cases it applies to.

    Initially, people can seem wonderful and perfect or near perfect. After a while, if one is not in a relationship, one can learn all about somebody's weaknesses, foibles, etc (without the nice warm feelings one can get, alongside noticing these things, if one is in a relationship) and it may be harder to get the buzz of excitement/attraction one can get with somebody new.


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    #20
    wilddarts
    Registered Users Posts: 274 ✭✭wilddarts


    I think its a bit like the over use of the term ''ironic'' to describe something coincidental.
    Its become a common term for unrequited interest between two people who know each other, whereas it should mean a more specific (and I reckon much rarer) scenario.

    Or at least that's what this perpetually single author thinks.


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    #21
    Wibbs
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,098 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    Oh I've defo seen the real deal, where the guy had a chance and borked it through indecision. Indecision is kryptonite to romantic attraction in women(and many are happy to admit it). Not just trying to start a relationship, but many relationships where the woman loses the gra for the guy is down to constant indecision on his part.

    That said the real deal is not as common as suggested. I've certainly seen the scenario where the bloke hangs around a woman he's into pretending to be her friend, hoping for more. Usually after the woman has shown no interest, though some women do thrive on such attention and keep male satellites around as an ego thing. If you're end up in that at 19 or 20 then it could happen to anyone, if you find yourself doing it past 25 orgod forbid 30, then IMH you need to have a think.

    Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.



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    #22
    Renegade Mechanic
    Registered Users Posts: 7,934 ✭✭✭Renegade Mechanic


    I think the friend zone is a load of crap. Women arent things you can pour kindness into until sex falls out. If they arent interested then you will NEVER get any, so dont waste your time pretending to be nice thinking you might. If your not prepared to be genuinely nice then dont be.


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    #23
    Speisekarte
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 147 ✭✭Speisekarte


    entropi wrote: »
    The "friend zone" is a fallacy imho. I honestly believe it was created by PUA types to promote their mostly useless ways of trying to get a woman interested in you, and if you leave it too long "you're in the friend zone". I call bull tbh.

    You can only go about this two ways: you're interested in someone for more than a platonic relationship, or you're not. Reciprocation is all that is needed. It really is that simple, but so much labelling happens that it seems to have stuck as a needless indicator that they don't find you sexually attractive.


    Through much past experience I find that it kills a woman's attraction for you if you don't pull the trigger when the window opens. Hesitation and indecisiveness just kills the attraction. If you look at it from an evolutionary point of view would you really want your genetic legacy in the hands of sons who are afraid to make a move on women that are interested in them.


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    #24
    clairefontaine
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,390 ✭✭✭clairefontaine


    Speisekarte wrote: »
    Through much past experience I find that it kills a woman's attraction for you if you don't pull the trigger when the window opens. Hesitation and indecisiveness just kills the attraction. If you look at it from an evolutionary point of view would you really want your genetic legacy in the hands of sons who are afraid to make a move on women that are interested in them.

    Deep down I think women see it as weak.

    But on the other hand friendships can move into deeper zones too.


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    #25
    uberalles
    Registered Users Posts: 836 ✭✭✭uberalles


    Friend Zone - Level bridge
    http://i.imgur.com/iUcQb.jpg

    Level 99
    http://www.funnyjunk.com/funny_pictures/3100874/FRIEND+ZONE+LEVEL+99/


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    #26
    uberalles
    Registered Users Posts: 836 ✭✭✭uberalles


    Chair
    http://www.funnyjunk.com/funny_pictures/3100874/FRIEND+ZONE+LEVEL+99/


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    #27
    Neeson
    Registered Users Posts: 3,909 ✭✭✭Neeson


    He who hesitates, masturbates.


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    #28
    strobe
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,872 ✭✭✭strobe


    entropi wrote: »

    You can only go about this two ways: you're interested in someone for more than a platonic relationship, or you're not. Reciprocation is all that is needed.

    I wouldn't agree with that at all.
    There's been plenty of girls I've found hugely sexually attractive initially but that attraction just faded and I ended up thinking of them more like i think of my sisters,.

    And conversely I've met girls, not found them particularly sexy initially but then a massive sexual attraction on my part has developed over time as I got to know them.

    Don't think it's as straight forward as "you either want to **** someone or be their friend from the moment you meet them" at all.


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    #29
    random1337
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 125 ✭✭random1337


    girls put guys in the friendzone because they crave attention. I'm dead srs
    They love that these beta guys text them constantly.
    A girl who my friend was hounding for months last year was laughing behind his back to me about zoning him
    To all the zoned brahs out there you need to cut the wk beta bs.
    SoManyFeels/10


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    #30
    Wibbs
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,098 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    When you used the word 'beta' you lost the argument. Well... unless you're on a PUA site. You do realise I hope that the 'Alpha' stuff is pretty much disproved in the animal kingdom? Or is way more complex than what you thing? In Wolves it's utterly bogus. Closer to home? Gorillas? Over a third of offspring raised by silverbacks ain't their kids. oops. Must be all those 'betas' getting previous.

    Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.



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    #31
    random1337
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 125 ✭✭random1337


    Wibbs wrote: »
    When you used the word 'beta' you lost the argument. Well... unless you're on a PUA site. You do realise I hope that the 'Alpha' stuff is pretty much disproved in the animal kingdom? Or is way more complex than what you thing? In Wolves it's utterly bogus. Closer to home? Gorillas? Over a third of offspring raised by silverbacks ain't their kids. oops. Must be all those 'betas' getting previous.

    umm human behaviour is very closely linked to that of apes and chimps.
    The alpha male gets to do most of the mating. The 'beta' males only get some when the alpha isn't around etc etc.
    So of course its possible a third of their offspring isn't theirs. Chimps/Apes like humans actually enjoy sex and have as much of it as they can, whether it be with alphas or betas.


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