Opening a new pub....

DaBisc

Hi,

I am just wondering if any body has advice regarding the opening of a new pub? I have found myself in a situation where an opportunity has arisen where the only over heads that I will have to cover are - one staff member, utilities, rates, stock. ( Have I left anything out, naturally taxes are included)

I have made initial contact with the main suppliers and have been issued docs to open a new account. One query that I have is, do such accounts operate on a credit basis or what? Naturally I am new to this but the location is prime, and no rent, so I assume that I should make a profit...that said I'm not taking nothing for granted as I am new to this but have experience of managing accounts/budgets in a previous capacity...but I'm no accountant...

Any advice on this venture would be greatly appreciated, anything from basic operations to marketing gimics....also people will undoubtly say how the pub trade is failing but I have found myself in this situation so I need to make the most of this opportunity....any advice in would be great...

Thanks in advance.....

MissyFit

At least you'll be able add the few weeks running the pub to your CV .

madmax72

Dont forget insurance.Most suppliers dont give credit now.Its usually cod or payment before delivery.Good luck

DaBisc

yeah I just got the quote for the insurance and I thought it was very reasonable....cod would be ideal as I wouldn't be under massive pressure to turn round stock within 30 days so in a away that's a bonus....cheers for he advice

DaBisc

MissyFit wrote: »

At least you'll be able add the few weeks running the pub to your CV .

I think the location will make it more than a few weeks

relaxed

MissyFit wrote: »

At least you'll be able add the few weeks running the pub to your CV .

That's a bit insulting, there must be 10000 pubs still open in the country, I presume they are trading profitably,

I frequent pubs in prime locations which are doing well. The OP's pub seems to be in a good location.

He won't be paying rent so that's a big plus. The issue really is getting enough capital to put stock in place and cover startup costs etc.

OP, to reduce the stock you need to hold initially you can always run down to Tesco and buy your spirits, bottles and soft drinks there in small quantities as needed rather than buying big bulk orders from a distributor which will obviously tie up more cash.

Bandara

Do you have a bar licence? Costs about 60k-70k afaik

Why is there no rent?

Why a pub?

How is there only 1 member of staff ?

What's the margin you expect to achieve?

Why do you presume you will make any profit?

Have you done your p&l ?

Have you ever run a bar/worked in a bar/know the scams that go on in a bar etc?

DaBisc

Hammertime wrote: »

Do you have a bar licence? Costs about 60k-70k afaik

Why is there no rent?

Why a pub?

How is there only 1 member of staff ?

What's the margin you expect to achieve?

Why do you presume you will make any profit?

Have you done your p&l ?

Have you ever run a bar/worked in a bar/know the scams that go on in a bar etc?

Hey,

Thanks for the points that you have listed....in relation to the points you have made, see the following:

I own the premises (fully licenced including fit-out)

The gross floor area is small and for the time being I would like to keep the overheads low hence one member of staff, probably on a basis of split shifts. therefore including myself there would be 2 staff

why a pub, mainly as its an option which 'seems' to be favourably on several fronts, as per point one above...

I assume when you say P&I, your referring to Public Indemnity Insurance? (I could be wrong but this is the reason that I m on Boards to see if there is anything I have left out) Yes I have looked into this as per my previous comment.

Yes I have worked in a bar when I was younger, however the person who will be working with me is a 'season-pro' in the trade...re. scams, I think you are referring to sales promotions, and other gimmicks to get asses on chairs, for this I have conducted a brain storming session highlighting important days during the year as well as other dates where opportunities exist, as well as opening possible new lines of trade with my own ideas...

Re margins I have reviewed the costing's and net take from estimated sales, which are conservative.

Why do I presume I will make a profit, the location of the premises...

Many thanks for taking time to review my post, I really appreciate it.

jimmii

P&L would be a profit & loss you should do this to work out whether it is worth the hassle of running it yourself when you might not make much than you would leasing it to someone else.

A pub just opened round the corner from where I work in the City Centre and they seem to be having a really tough time getting people in. They are having to do live music most nights and free tasting nights etc to try and get people in the door. Seeing as you own it already you have a get out as you aren't going to be tied into a lease or anything. Best of luck hope it works out for you!

EDIT: it seems like you won't be doing food I think these days its very hard to get people to come to you without offering then the option of eating there. If there is a nice takeaway near you then you could try arrange a deal with them to be have them supply food and you take a cut out of the order or something.

lucky john

jimmii wrote: »

P&L would be a profit & loss you should do this to work out whether it is worth the hassle of running it yourself when you might not make much than you would leasing it to someone else.

A pub just opened round the corner from where I work in the City Centre and they seem to be having a really tough time getting people in. They are having to do live music most nights and free tasting nights etc to try and get people in the door. Seeing as you own it already you have a get out as you aren't going to be tied into a lease or anything. Best of luck hope it works out for you!

EDIT: it seems like you won't be doing food I think these days its very hard to get people to come to you without offering then the option of eating there. If there is a nice takeaway near you then you could try arrange a deal with them to be have them supply food and you take a cut out of the order or something.

I know nothing really about the pub business but I heard an "industry expert" been interviewed recently. He said that in 20 years there would be virtually no pubs with taps left. He predicted that to compete with cheap supermarket beer, pubs would need to switch to specialty bottled beers and offer customers different tastes from around the world. A beer bar as opposed to a wine bar I suppose. Anyway I expect this will depend on your location and the customer demographic local to you. Might be worth you while doing a bit of research into it.

Lobby Con Shine

relaxed wrote: »

That's a bit insulting, there must be 10000 pubs still open in the country, I presume they are trading profitably,

I frequent pubs in prime locations which are doing well. The OP's pub seems to be in a good location.

He won't be paying rent so that's a big plus. The issue really is getting enough capital to put stock in place and cover startup costs etc.

OP, to reduce the stock you need to hold initially you can always run down to Tesco and buy your spirits, bottles and soft drinks there in small quantities as needed rather than buying big bulk orders from a distributor which will obviously tie up more cash.

Have a sense of humour ffs.

That was a classic first reply. Make me chuckle.

Whatnuclearsub

relaxed wrote: »

That's a bit insulting, there must be 10000 pubs still open in the country, I presume they are trading profitably,

I frequent pubs in prime locations which are doing well. The OP's pub seems to be in a good location.

He won't be paying rent so that's a big plus. The issue really is getting enough capital to put stock in place and cover startup costs etc.

OP, to reduce the stock you need to hold initially you can always run down to Tesco and buy your spirits, bottles and soft drinks there in small quantities as needed rather than buying big bulk orders from a distributor which will obviously tie up more cash.

There are about 7000 pubs in the country, 1000 pubs closed last year. And 40% of the pubs are apparently on the rocks. It may be insulting, but it has an element of truth behind it. No rent, but he will be paying rates along with all other utility bills and maintenance which is not to be underestimated but the OP has done a business plan and a financial forecast so Im sure he has that covered.

It takes more than having a pub in a good location to get people in the door, if the pints are rotten, if the toilets are in bits and filthy dirty and if you have no entertainment at the weekends then you can't expect anyone to want to drink in your pub.

Also buying Not To Be Sold Individually Boxes of beer from your local super market has the potential to hack off not only your suppliers but also your customers who may feel that they are being cheated.

I know I have been a bit negative so Ill end on a positive note, even the smallest of pubs has huge potential for success, even more so if you are the owner of the pub and your personality shines through. Building up a rapport with your customers, treating them with respect and gaining their loyalty is essential for success.

bizleads

First think of client attraction and retention system and you will be well ahead of 99% of the pubs. Then open your pub. People wont show up for no reason. All the best

endacl

What'll you do if you or the other guy is sick?

.jacksparrow.

Supply free sandwiches or cocktail sausages at around ten each night, makes people thirsty and stop them leaving cause their hungry, little simple thing nowhere bothers with.

clearodara

Hi mate,
I have worked and managed bars for a good few years, if you need any advise feel free to drop me a pm. Where is the location of the bar if you don't mind me asking. All the best

jimmii

.jacksparrow. wrote: »

Supply free sandwiches or cocktail sausages at around ten each night, makes people thirsty and stop them leaving cause their hungry, little simple thing nowhere bothers with.

This is a really good idea. I remember being in a pub in castlebar on a work night and the landlord did that we ended up going there for drinks each night after that which we would never have done if it wasn't for a couple of sausages and a chicken wing!

clio_16v

Did you just buy the bar or are you inheriting it? I'm confused as to how you have no rent.. If you have just taken over the business then check if there's any outstanding rates / bills. Even if you just took over then you will most likely still be liable for existing rates bills. Also, don't forget that 23% of any sales you make goes in VAT and you can't renew your license unless you have a tax clearance cert. If you plan on showing sports then Sky then you could be forking out 1000 a month for the privilege.

If there are any big employers in the area i.e. a Multinational / large office block then contact them. Organise a loyalty card scheme for them to come in for after work drinks. Offer to host work parties for them / BBQ's if possible. You'd be amazed how much business 50 euro worth of meat on a BBQ can generate! Social media is key obviously no matter what area you're in.

Themed nights, as cheesy as it sounds, can really work if done well. Fancy dress halloween party / Mexican Mondays with deals on Corona and Tequila, who cares as long as it works.

Craft beer / microbrews are a massively expanding market. It's a tough call to go craft only but consider having a few options.

mikemac1

The toilets must be clean. People judge you on this and also if you've serving food then people think dirty toilets = dirty kitchen.

Selling multipack bottles to your customers is understandable but it's a reminder to them that you bought them in Tesco for one euro and now you are charging five.

Cordials on the counter please. Kills me to pay 1.65 for a Schweppes ginger ale. I'd give you a euro for a dash at a push but the tiny bottles are robbery

+1 for handing out baskets of cocktail sausages early during the night. Costs feck all and encourages people to stay around.

Print some loyalty cards. Buy 10 meals and get one free. Simple but it keeps people coming. But don't do just a boring standard card, print something nice with photos and maybe a little history about the place. Printing and designing is not expensive. You don't need to hire a professional for this.

Heavily push for the local work nights out, christenings, twenty firsts and so on. But then all pubs want this business so it's not easy. If they can give you numbers you'll sort out food and maybe a DJ. Food anyway is very cheap to put together.

Selection of craft beers. Doesn't have to be a huge stock but have different brands and be ready to talk about them if asked.

I'll mention clean toilets again!

jimmii

mikemac1 wrote: »

The toilets must be clean.

So true one thing that puts me off certain, otherwise nice, pubs is their absolutely disgusting toilets. How they expect anyone to go in their is beyond me. Maybe that is why they are so bad because staff refuse to enter them!

clio_16v

I agree, clean toilets are a must! It's illegal to sell multipack bottles from Tesco etc so don't do that! If you don't have a kitchen then cocktail sausages etc can be expensive. Costs me about 120 euro a time to do this.

joeguevara

clio_16v wrote: »

I agree, clean toilets are a must! It's illegal to sell multipack bottles from Tesco etc so don't do that! If you don't have a kitchen then cocktail sausages etc can be expensive. Costs me about 120 euro a time to do this.

This is wrong. It is not illegal to sell single items from a multipack. It may look cheap but its certainly not against the law.

clio_16v

joeguevara wrote: »

This is wrong. It is not illegal to sell single items from a multipack. It may look cheap but its certainly not against the law.

Customs go to pubs checking that bottles are the correct size and have the correct alcohol percentage. As far as I know, it's illegal to sell the 300ml multipack bottles

Graham

clio_16v wrote: »

Customs go to pubs checking that bottles are the correct size and have the correct alcohol percentage. As far as I know, it's illegal to sell the 300ml multipack bottles

If it's illegal to split multipacks and sell them separately, I'd be interested in seeing a source for that information.

I understood that as long as the separated items contained the legally required labelling, 'not for resale individually' has pretty much no legal standing.

joeguevara

clio_16v wrote: »

Customs go to pubs checking that bottles are the correct size and have the correct alcohol percentage. As far as I know, it's illegal to sell the 300ml multipack bottles

Customs don't go checking bottle sizes.

Measures of pints, glasses and measures of spirits are checked. Alcohol content of spirits are checked.

They couldn't care less if its a multipack or a 275ml coke or 330 ml coke.

Tesco/coke/bud don't want people splitting multi packs but there is not one law in this land that prohibits you doing so.

relaxed

clio_16v wrote: »

Customs go to pubs checking that bottles are the correct size and have the correct alcohol percentage. As far as I know, it's illegal to sell the 300ml multipack bottles

I was in a pub last night and they were selling 500ml cans of bulmers with the red multipack 6 for €10 labels on top. It's not illegal to sell multipacks as singles, the brewery's just don't want it.

I paid €4 for the can, didn't bother me.

clio_16v

I assumed it was illegal. Customs came to my pub and queried why one beer was 4.6% instead of 4.5%. Apparently my supplier had been importing them. They warned me that I need to be buying from wholesalers and not "other sources".

Everything in my bar is 100% legit and it annoys me when I see 300ml bottles for full price or worse 25ml English size shot glasses for Jägerbombs etc.

4 euro for a can of Bulmers? Nice profit on that!

joeguevara

clio_16v wrote: »

I assumed it was illegal. Customs came to my pub and queried why one beer was 4.6% instead of 4.5%. Apparently my supplier had been importing them. They warned me that I need to be buying from wholesalers and not "other sources".

Everything in my bar is 100% legit and it annoys me when I see 300ml bottles for full price or worse 25ml English size shot glasses for Jägerbombs etc.

4 euro for a can of Bulmers? Nice profit on that!

When the customs say that, they mean not to be buying off the back of a lorry or from guys coming into the pub. They wouldn't be able to stop you buying from a large supermarket chain.

Did it say Export on the Keg/Can/bottle? They queried the strength, as outlined in previous post..

A pub that sells jaegerbombs in 25ml shots and passing them off as standard measures is illegal. Our standard measure is 37.5 ml. I seem to remember Baileys used to be sold in an optic of 50ml. As long as that was clearly marked then, it would be ok. If it was marketed as a double, they would be getting in serious trouble.

On a side note, a pub in the midlands were alleged to have sold weak (watered down vodka). It was reported in the Times and the NCA lambasted them from a height. When the second sample was tested, it was the correct strength. The original test was tainted as it wasn't done properly. There were serious ramifications for the tester and the NCA. I am unsure about what happened with the Newspaper.

In Ireland, it would be considered the worst thing for a publican to do and as far as I am aware, could lead to them losing their licence.

BTW fair play for everything being legit. Good to see honest publicans.

Gloomtastic!

joeguevara wrote: »

When the customs say that, they mean not to be buying off the back of a lorry or from guys coming into the pub. They wouldn't be able to stop you buying from a large supermarket chain.

Did it say Export on the Keg/Can/bottle? They queried the strength, as outlined in previous post..

A pub that sells jaegerbombs in 25ml shots and passing them off as standard measures is illegal. Our standard measure is 37.5 ml. I seem to remember Baileys used to be sold in an optic of 50ml. As long as that was clearly marked then, it would be ok. If it was marketed as a double, they would be getting in serious trouble.

On a side note, a pub in the midlands were alleged to have sold weak (watered down vodka). It was reported in the Times and the NCA lambasted them from a height. When the second sample was tested, it was the correct strength. The original test was tainted as it wasn't done properly. There were serious ramifications for the tester and the NCA. I am unsure about what happened with the Newspaper.

In Ireland, it would be considered the worst thing for a publican to do and as far as I am aware, could lead to them losing their licence.

BTW fair play for everything being legit. Good to see honest publicans.

Worked as a barman in Corfu about 20 years ago. All the bars in the town filled their spirit bottles with wood alcohol and flavouring. People used to complain about the ice giving their drink a funny flavour, but the ice was the cleanest thing in the glass. The only exception was Metaxa Brandy which, funnily enough, was what all the locals drank. :rolleyes:

clio_16v

There are a few honest publicans left! I see people saying that pubs are ripping people off left, right and centre... It's a very tough game for anyone to get into at the moment, I admire anyone who has the balls / perhaps stupidity to do so!

BailMeOut

Be nice and friendly to your customers especially if you are really busy. Look like you are very happy to take their money and appreciate them drinking in your pub. That's the secret to a successful pub!