Would it be incredibly unpatriotic to suggest that I no longer support reunification?

Seanchai

golfball37 wrote: »

Would any British Politician get away with the strokes Reilly & Shatter have pulled?

This sort of irrational everything British is wonderful/everything Irish is crap reactionary rubbish my goat up. Did you ever hear of ... where to even begin ... cash for questions? fraudulent expenses? ....

Not to mention the massive lie to get British people to support the Iraq invasion, and the transfer of billions of € worth of Iraqi oil into British hands. How can you miss all this?

And as for your contention that politicians in the Six are not corrupt, I believe there is currently a number of highly controversial planning decisions around the Antrim area involving DUP politicians which tell another story. Ian Paisley Jnr? And Peter and Iris Robinson's financial affairs?

Ozymandius2011

Even the majority of Catholics up there no longer want unification judging by the recent BBC Spotlight poll. Just 17% of Northerners said they would vote for a UI. Also the entire public sector in NI is almost the size of ours in terms of the actual number (nor per capita - I mean the actual number) of workers i.e. 280,000-290,000. We already spend €20 billion on the PS we have, and we cannot afford that without the Troika. So the concept that we afford a doubling of the same PS for thw forseeable future seems ludicrous to me.

Steo M

Reunification with Britain & the pound would be a much better option for us, we've never been so pish poor since we joined the EU.
Since Britain, America & China are our biggest exporting trading partners, why do we need Europe?
All that lot have been trying to do is take our bread & butter multinationals off us.
We can still sting the bondholders if we leave the EU & alleviate the hardship every Irish citizen is experiencing.
Look at Iceland, they bailed nobody out, told the bondholders to funk off, had a few years austerity & now they're economy is flying again.
Of course this will never happen while all we have to vote for are weasley, gombeem, cap in hand gob$hites who couldn't do a deal in a brothel. They gave our natural resources away for a bag of magic beans.
It's them & their cronies who should be up for treason for raping & pillaging our beautiful little country. I always said, the Provos shot the wrong enemy.

.jacksparrow.

I see good old British propaganda is alive and well in this thread, keep telling people something and they will eventually believe it.

golfball37

Seanchai wrote: »

This sort of irrational everything British is wonderful/everything Irish is crap reactionary rubbish my goat up. Did you ever hear of ... where to even begin ... cash for questions? fraudulent expenses? ....

Not to mention the massive lie to get British people to support the Iraq invasion, and the transfer of billions of € worth of Iraqi oil into British hands. How can you miss all this?

And as for your contention that politicians in the Six are not corrupt, I believe there is currently a number of highly controversial planning decisions around the Antrim area involving DUP politicians which tell another story. Ian Paisley Jnr? And Peter and Iris Robinson's financial affairs?

People were jailed in England for the expenses scandal, thats my point.

smokingman

Seeing as they have the highest concentration of creationists in the world up there, I really don't want that level of stupid added to our own.

COYW

Seanchai wrote: »

This sort of irrational everything British is wonderful/everything Irish is crap reactionary rubbish my goat up. Did you ever hear of ... where to even begin ... cash for questions? fraudulent expenses? ...

They were investigated and jailed in no time ..... Is that not good enough for you? In good old republican Ireland, we haven't even got around to stopping their paychecks, let alone making them face any form of justice.

Nothing wrong with not wanting a UI OP. I have always been against it and I consider myself to be as Irish as anyone. I am really proud of my British roots too. As you said, as people mature and have to worry about the real issues that life puts in front of them, children, job, mortgage etc, they tend to realise that things like a UI are not important. I often feel really sorry for Republicans who are consumed by a hatred of all things British.

I firmly believe that if we were still part of the UK, we would be in a far healthier position than we are now.

old hippy

.jacksparrow. wrote: »

I see good old British propaganda is alive and well in this thread, keep telling people something and they will eventually believe it.

Telling them what? What propaganda?

Einhard

I don't really care to be honest. And I doubt many people do either.





About reunification that is.

T runner

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

I'm not so sure I see re-unification as a desirable outcome for Ireland anymore.
Now before anyone attacks this, hear me out for a second. This is not anything to do with politics, I'm as nationalist as anyone which will be obvious to anyone who's seen me post here before.
But the border is fast becoming the only escape from the nanny state our Republic is turning into. At this moment, you can't buy a packet of roman candles for new years in the Republic, but you can get one for a fiver just across the border. At this moment, our government is attempting to further restrict people's freedom by repeatedly hammering the prices of booze and cigarettes - both of which can be found far more cheaply if you head up North. And now we have this big from the Department of health to look after the vinters attack both problem and responsible drinkers by introducing minimum pricing, potentially raising the age for drinking or at least off sales to 21, ban sponsorship, and a whole pile of other nastiness coming from our distinguished Roisin Shorthall's legacy in the Department of Health. It's only going to get worse - last year we had the suggestion of a blanket ban on remote voicemail access because there are some eejits who don't know how to change their default password and are being hacked by journalists :rolleyes:

Forgive me for saying this, but the way things are going I'd almost prefer if the government here was abolished and Stormont had authority over the whole island. At least they don't seem inclined to treat their entire population as children who shouldn't be allowed to make their own decisions, or base such restrictions on civil liberties on protecting the minority of eejits from themselves.

Thoughts?

If Britain withheld its annual bailout of NI you'd soon change youre tune.

NI or any part of Ireland cant compete within the UK.


More people pass the border in 5 mins on the M1/E1 than between Britain and NI in an entire day. It makes no sense to have a political border on this Island bar the threat of prolonged sectarian violence.

The best economic fit is a seperate single political juristinction on this Island.

Youd imagine a true republic would be the best fit to manage this, (many radical Protestants would probably be republican (small r) in outlook).

Stormont did impose sectarian policies on its state and is now set up to ensure a majority cannot hurt a minority for sectarian zero sum reasons.

Ironically un untrusting coalition between unionist and nationalist would be one way to ensure a higher liklihood of equality and fairness for all in any single entity

Wont happen anytime soon. Ireland was divided by sectarian headcount and the sectarian headcount is now locked in law!

T runner

COYW wrote: »

They were investigated and jailed in no time ..... Is that not good enough for you? In good old republican Ireland, we haven't even got around to stopping their paychecks, let alone making them face any form of justice.

Nothing wrong with not wanting a UI OP. I have always been against it and I consider myself to be as Irish as anyone. I am really proud of my British roots too. As you said, as people mature and have to worry about the real issues that life puts in front of them, children, job, mortgage etc, they tend to realise that things like a UI are not important. I often feel really sorry for Republicans who are consumed by a hatred of all things British.

I firmly believe that if we were still part of the UK, we would be in a far healthier position than we are now.

Britain bails out NI to the tune of 20 billion per annum. How much would the whole Island cost? 100 billion? We would sink Britain! Ireland was never meant to be a fucntioning part of the UK. It was absorbed soley for security reasons. It is not a fit.

A true republic here would mean equality and equal oppurtunity regardless of gender, upbringing, age etc. I think most Irish people would wish for such a thing. It has little to do with hating British.

Power in this country is held by a few conservative men untrusting of its citiznes. It is more or less an extension of a colonial model. Realistically we are never going back to the UK. If we wash away all the useless self deprication, we have the ability and are in a position to improve this country. That is logically where our efforts should go.

gallag

T runner wrote: »

Britain bails out NI to the tune of 20 billion per annum. How much would the whole Island cost? 100 billion? We would sink Britain! Ireland was never meant to be a fucntioning part of the UK. It was absorbed soley for security reasons. It is not a fit.

A true republic here would mean equality and equal oppurtunity regardless of gender, upbringing, age etc. I think most Irish people would wish for such a thing. It has little to do with hating British.

Power in this country is held by a few conservative men untrusting of its citiznes. It is more or less an extension of a colonial model. Realistically we are never going back to the UK. If we wash away all the useless self deprication, we have the ability and are in a position to improve this country. That is logically where our efforts should go.

How much would these islands save by clamping down on tax avoidance and having a unified corporate tax? Massive capital expenditure through both islands and completing all fracking and offshore deep drilling without outside companies taking 80%+ giving cheep energy for manufacturing. with rising economy's like china, Brazil and india etc the future is not going to be kind to these little islands, mabey together we will get though.

gurramok

COYW wrote: »

Nothing wrong with not wanting a UI OP. I have always been against it and I consider myself to be as Irish as anyone. I am really proud of my British roots too. As you said, as people mature and have to worry about the real issues that life puts in front of them, children, job, mortgage etc, they tend to realise that things like a UI are not important. I often feel really sorry for Republicans who are consumed by a hatred of all things British.

I firmly believe that if we were still part of the UK, we would be in a far healthier position than we are now.

Nice to see an Unionist point of view on this. We were not in a healthy position when in the UK against our will, we will just be like the neglected north of England if we were now.

COYW

T runner wrote: »

Britain bails out NI to the tune of 20 billion per annum. How much would the whole Island cost? 100 billion? We would sink Britain! Ireland was never meant to be a fucntioning part of the UK. It was absorbed soley for security reasons. It is not a fit.

You are missing my point. We (the RoI) would never have been allowed to get overselves into the position that we are in as a result of overall governance from London. They would have monitored us much like the Troika does now. Irish republicans have shown over the past 100 years that they are not capable of self-governance.

Can you elaborate on why Ireland was never meant to be a functioning part of the UK? As gallag pointed out, we would have been a really tight economic unit, with a very strong voice within the EU. At the moment, we are an infantile republic which is the laughing stock of Europe.

T runner wrote: »

A true republic here would mean equality and equal oppurtunity regardless of gender, upbringing, age etc. I think most Irish people would wish for such a thing. It has little to do with hating British.

Idealistic waffle. I must be missing all the love, respect and affection that the republican community shows towards Britain.

gurramok wrote: »

Nice to see an Unionist point of view on this. We were not in a healthy position when in the UK against our will, we will just be like the neglected north of England if we were now.

That was 100 years ago. Can you prove that we would not have our own parliament now, probably for all 32 counties, based in Dublin or Belfast, under the stewardship of London, in a far healthier economic and social position than we are now?

gallag

COYW wrote: »

You are missing my point. We (the RoI) would never have been allowed to get overselves into the position that we are in as a result of overall governance from London. They would have monitored us much like the Troika does now. Irish republicans have shown over the past 100 years that they are not capable of self-governance.

Can you elaborate on why Ireland was never meant to be a functioning part of the UK? As gallag pointed out, we would have been a really tight economic unit, with a very strong voice within the EU. At the moment, we are an infantile republic which is the laughing stock of Europe.



Idealistic waffle. I must be missing all the love, respect and affection that the republican community shows towards Britain.



That was 100 years ago. Can you prove that we would not have our own parliament now, probably for all 32 counties, based in Dublin or Belfast, under the stewardship of London, in a far healthier economic and social position than we are now?

I firmly believe that if ireland was not forced by terrorists to leave the U.K It would be united and prosperous, it is likely the U.K would have had an Irish P.M by now.

old hippy

gallag wrote: »

I firmly believe that if ireland was not forced by terrorists to leave the U.K It would be united and prosperous, it is likely the U.K would have had an Irish P.M by now.

Hang on, I'm not a card carrying nationalist but what??? What????

Einhard

old hippy wrote: »

Hang on, I'm not a card carrying nationalist but what??? What????

You see, when Britain forces an entire nation to her whim by dint of military force, it's legitimate. When people seek to resist, it's terorism.

Or so the logic goes...

gallag

Einhard wrote: »

You see, when Britain forces an entire nation to her whim by dint of military force, it's legitimate. When people seek to resist, it's terorism.

Or so the logic goes...

Sneaking about shooting people and flying against the will of the people at the time made them terrorists.

Mr Cumulonimbus

COYW wrote: »

They would have monitored us much like the Troika does now.

Did the UK monitor NI from 1921 to 1969 re discrimination against the Nationalist minority there?

Irish republicans have shown over the past 100 years that they are not capable of self-governance.

If that's the case, Unionists weren't capable either then when holding power on their own in NI pre-1972.

Idealistic waffle. I must be missing all the love, respect and affection that the republican community shows towards Britain.

Why? T runner said 'most irish people', not just republicans.

Can you prove that we would not have our own parliament now, probably for all 32 counties, based in Dublin or Belfast, under the stewardship of London, in a far healthier economic and social position than we are now?

Counter-factual conjecture. How do you prove it?

guinnessdrinker

COYW wrote: »

You are missing my point. We (the RoI) would never have been allowed to get overselves into the position that we are in as a result of overall governance from London. They would have monitored us much like the Troika does now.

Just on this COYW, you do realise that the British Government themselves had to go to the IMF for their own bail out in 1976 to prevent the country going down the drain?

COYW wrote: »

Can you prove that we would not have our own parliament now, probably for all 32 counties, based in Dublin or Belfast, under the stewardship of London, in a far healthier economic and social position than we are now?

This is impossible to prove one way or another without the aid of a crystal ball!

I think a 32 county Ireland with one parliament representing all people on the island is attainable in the future. Not in the near future obviously due to the current global economic situation. I don't see anything wrong with a future unified Ireland then rejoining the Commonwealth either.

ardmacha

Can you prove that we would not have our own parliament now, probably for all 32 counties, based in Dublin or Belfast, under the stewardship of London, in a far healthier economic and social position than we are now?

I very much doubt it. The Republic of Ireland is more prosperous than any part of the UK except London. Is Wales in a healthy economic position?
So we'd be second class citizens and poorer as well, and this in the middle of the mother of all recessions.

Iwasfrozen

ardmacha wrote: »

I very much doubt it. The Republic of Ireland is more prosperous than any part of the UK except London. Is Wales in a healthy economic position?
So we'd be second class citizens and poorer as well, and this in the middle of the mother of all recessions.

That's not true, it's regional. Liverpool and Manchester are much more prosperous then the West of Ireland. Similarly Dublin is more prosperous then the Scottish Highlands.

getzls

ardmacha wrote: »

I very much doubt it. The Republic of Ireland is more prosperous than any part of the UK except London.

Scotland.:cool:

old hippy

gallag wrote: »

Sneaking about shooting people and flying against the will of the people at the time made them terrorists.

Times have changed, we have a Republic now and we no longer need to refer to the British as "terrorists". Don't be stuck in the past, gallag.

Dubhlinner

NI is very nanny state. Pubs close at 1.30am. Also they've been talking about minimum pricing for alcohol too. Not a strip club in sight in belfast whereas towns as small as kilkenny have them in the south

Cigarettes are not cheaper either. The pound has come back a bit & a 20pack of marlboro is about 7.50 up there. About 9euro here. very little difference there

Republic of Ireland I would say has a generally more liberal outlook. Roman Catholics generally aren't as religious as Evangelical Christians.

old hippy

Dubhlinner wrote: »

NI is very nanny state. Pubs close at 1.30am. Also they've been talking about minimum pricing for alcohol too. Not a strip club in sight in belfast whereas towns as small as kilkenny have them in the south

Cigarettes are not cheaper either. The pound has come back a bit & a 20pack of marlboro is about 7.50 up there. About 9euro here. very little difference there

Republic of Ireland I would say has a generally more liberal outlook. Roman Catholics generally aren't as religious as Evangelical Christians.

I dunno, man. Some of them anti abortion types scare the willes out of me. Bad as each other.

Iwasfrozen

old hippy wrote: »

I dunno, man. Some of them anti abortion types scare the willes out of me. Bad as each other.

I could write a very long winded and very off topic rant here. Instead I'll make do with anti-abortion ≠ religious fanatic.

Defiler Of The Coffin

The "let's not support re-unification because we need a libertarian sanctuary" argument doesn't stand up. In NI gambling is outlawed on Sundays, pub closing times are earlier than the ROI, shop opening hours on Sundays are more restrictive and tobacco laws are just as restrictive. Minimum pricing for alcohol is on the cards also. More than likely the ROI will also see gay marriage legalised before NI does. The DUP aren't exactly known for their liberal views on politics either.

Defiler Of The Coffin

COYW wrote: »

Can you elaborate on why Ireland was never meant to be a functioning part of the UK? As gallag pointed out, we would have been a really tight economic unit, with a very strong voice within the EU. At the moment, we are an infantile republic which is the laughing stock of Europe.



Idealistic waffle. I must be missing all the love, respect and affection that the republican community shows towards Britain.



That was 100 years ago. Can you prove that we would not have our own parliament now, probably for all 32 counties, based in Dublin or Belfast, under the stewardship of London, in a far healthier economic and social position than we are now?

Such a load of self-loathing rubbish. Despite all that's happened over the last number of years Ireland still has a higher quality of life than the UK. Ireland was never a priority for Britain except from a military point of view. The famine and the lack of development and industrialisation in all the years we were part of the kingdom demonstrate this. Better an 'infantile republic' with an Irish parliament for Irish people than another neglected region of the UK.

COYW wrote: »

You are missing my point. We (the RoI) would never have been allowed to get overselves into the position that we are in as a result of overall governance from London. They would have monitored us much like the Troika does now. Irish republicans have shown over the past 100 years that they are not capable of self-governance.

They didn't do a great job of monitoring their own banks - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_United_Kingdom_bank_rescue_package

Happyman42

guinnessdrinker wrote: »

Just on this COYW, you do realise that the British Government themselves had to go to the IMF for their own bail out in 1976 to prevent the country going down the drain?

Absolutely true and they may have heavy waters to face in the very near future. In many ways we are way ahead on the road to recovery.
My experience on these boards is that Unionists live in a whole other fantasy world. In total denial of certain realities about their motherland.