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Help/Advice needed to achieve my goal!

  • 27-06-2013 5:08am
    #1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,515 ✭✭✭


    The Goal:

    Very simple really, not very happy with my form playing football (soccer) last season and want to get AS FIT AS POSSIBLE, I.E. Get into the best shape of my life - approx 74/75KG, i.e. - 6pack :D

    Lucky for me I have 2 friends in work that are somewhat dedicated to the healthy lifestyle/working out so I'm going working from a solid base. All I'm looking for his more helpful hints & advice on top of what I am already doing


    Going to do this in 2 parts

    1. EXERCISE
    I've always been thin but as (like everyone) I got older the belly started :D so about a month ago I've started doing the following:
    • 3 minutes situps - EVERY NIGHT
    • Push Ups to fail - EVERY NIGHT
    • I bought a bike which I use for 1-2 hours or so every week
    • Jogging (20-30 mins non stop 1/2 pace) twice per week
    • Walking the dog 4-5 times a week (45mins to 1 hour) walking at 3/4 pace
    • 5 a side football at least 2 times per week
    • Ab crunches & side crunchs twice per week
    I also have a weights bench but I'm not really interested in bulking up, I would like to build muscle slightly but I'd prefer to tone and reduce body fat


    DIET:
    I realise that all of the above is pretty pointless without changing my diet, so I have made a real effort here, but what I'm REALLY after is a good diet plan, not just what to eat but when to eat it as well! Starting off about a month ago I was close to 82KG and I'm down to 78/79 at the moment, but I do feel as though a lot of that is initial water
    • I've cut out choc, (Eat Dark Choc now, in very small quantities)
    • Never smoked
    • Gave up drink over a year ago
    • don't drink coke or anything like that, just Water.
    • Drink plain black Coffee (no milk or sugar)
    • Only eat brown bread, never white
    • Snacks - Rice Cakes, Green Beans, fruit, Yogurts, etc
    I'll add to the list as I remember things, but my main concern is that I've found myself stop eating dinners now, I have eggs or a toasted sandwich instead. I'm looking for advice on my diet layout more than anything else and should I be doing more/less regards my workout?

    Remember the main goal is to be as fit as possible for next season, which is about 2 months away ;)


    Advice welcome!!!


«1

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6 will hefferman


    The Goal:

    Very simple really, not very happy with my form playing football (soccer) last season and want to get AS FIT AS POSSIBLE, I.E. Get into the best shape of my life - approx 74/75KG, i.e. - 6pack :D

    Lucky for me I have 2 friends in work that are somewhat dedicated to the healthy lifestyle/working out so I'm going working from a solid base. All I'm looking for his more helpful hints & advice on top of what I am already doing


    Going to do this in 2 parts

    1. EXERCISE
    I've always been thin but as (like everyone) I got older the belly started :D so about a month ago I've started doing the following:
    • 3 minutes situps - EVERY NIGHT
    • Push Ups to fail - EVERY NIGHT
    • I bought a bike which I use for 1-2 hours or so every week
    • Jogging (20-30 mins non stop 1/2 pace) twice per week
    • Walking the dog 4-5 times a week (45mins to 1 hour) walking at 3/4 pace
    • 5 a side football at least 2 times per week
    • Ab crunches & side crunchs twice per week
    I also have a weights bench but I'm not really interested in bulking up, I would like to build muscle slightly but I'd prefer to tone and reduce body fat


    DIET:
    I realise that all of the above is pretty pointless without changing my diet, so I have made a real effort here, but what I'm REALLY after is a good diet plan, not just what to eat but when to eat it as well! Starting off about a month ago I was close to 82KG and I'm down to 78/79 at the moment, but I do feel as though a lot of that is initial water
    • I've cut out choc, (Eat Dark Choc now, in very small quantities)
    • Never smoked
    • Gave up drink over a year ago
    • don't drink coke or anything like that, just Water.
    • Drink plain black Coffee (no milk or sugar)
    • Only eat brown bread, never white
    • Snacks - Rice Cakes, Green Beans, fruit, Yogurts, etc
    I'll add to the list as I remember things, but my main concern is that I've found myself stop eating dinners now, I have eggs or a toasted sandwich instead. I'm looking for advice on my diet layout more than anything else and should I be doing more/less regards my workout?

    Remember the main goal is to be as fit as possible for next season, which is about 2 months away ;)


    Advice welcome!!!

    What are your stats now height weight in pounds bf% ?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,515 ✭✭✭tupac_healy


    What are your stats now height weight in pounds bf% ?

    Height 5'7 approx
    Weight 174 pounds
    33 years old


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 36,434 ✭✭✭✭LuckyLloyd


    Surely when preseason starts it will include a huge amount of additional cardio work?

    Most football players I've seen would benefit massively from concentrating on mobility and flexibility. Dynamic stretching / foam rolling / etc.

    Lifting weights won't make you 'bulky' unless your diet is tailored in a specific way. Lower body weights work may help you become more explosive though.

    I'd say the act of playing football + five a side a couple of nights a week added to a half hour or so mobility work daily + two well structured weight sessions a week would offer the biggest improvement.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,515 ✭✭✭tupac_healy


    LuckyLloyd wrote: »
    Surely when preseason starts it will include a huge amount of additional cardio work?

    Most football players I've seen would benefit massively from concentrating on mobility and flexibility. Dynamic stretching / foam rolling / etc.

    Lifting weights won't make you 'bulky' unless your diet is tailored in a specific way. Lower body weights work may help you become more explosive though.

    I'd say the act of playing football + five a side a couple of nights a week added to a half hour or so mobility work daily + two well structured weight sessions a week would offer the biggest improvement.

    Ah yes I new I forgot something, I meant to ask more about stretching as I did suffer hamstring pulls last season. Which never really happened to me before. But for sure id like some advice on stretching and how to incorpoate it.

    You said it exacly, im not looking to bulk up, im looking to be more explosive! Spot on!! So what sort of weight sessions should I do twice a week?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 360 ✭✭witless1


    This year I done my first structured pre-pre season! I roped in a mate of mine who does some personal training and physio work to do me out weekly programs. I basically wanted to hit pre-season running so to speak. I'v had the last few seasons where I finished a season injured or got injured coming into pre-season. To be fair some were impact injuries, joys of playing ball :) So I'm currently finishing out my 6th week with pre-season due to start next Tuesday. I'v done 4 gym sessions a week and a weekly spinning session, occasionally fitting in a game of XI a side on the astro but I'm trying to limit my football. The one game I did play recently I got a bruised shin out of it which knocked my gym sessions out for a while, so the one advice I would give you is knock 5 a side on the head, you will have enough football come pre-season.

    The program he gave me focused on flexibility and strength work, a lot of it is free weights and general core work. I had zero experience with free weights before it and after a few weeks I have a lot more confidence in going into that section of the gym. Youtube videos and helpful gym instructors really go a long way. In terms of free weights I have done a decent selection with variations for each upper body muscle group (lats, shoulders, triceps etc.) so it has been the likes of a shoulder press or arnold press, seated row / bent over row, squats, dumbbell flys (on an exercise ball was fun!) and recently to deadlifts. Other core based exercises are press ups, lunges (with weights at your side / bar on your back) and other such body weight resistances, namely variants of the plank. I had a good tolerance for the plank (around 4 mins) so he gave me different variations like opposites plank (on one arm + opposite leg), opposites with arm extended (press up style) and side planks with variations like dips or raise your leg. Those slight variations have really challenged me on it I have to say, arms shaking and body giving up but its a nice measure of your progress and you can see it coming along over time. Each week is focusing on something else for me. Each gym session is 8-10 exercises with mostly 2 sets of each, sometimes 3 on specific ones which takes me about an hour including warmup and warmdown, with the stretches in the latter important for injury prevention / flexibility.

    What I have noticed is obviously an increase in strength, I can feel my arms have gotten bigger, probably not visible to others but I notice it. I'v lost about 6 pounds with a very so so diet. I would eat my main meals very healthy enough, make all my own sauces, eat lots of fruit and veg, try to minimise having big carb based dinners. I'm a picker though, crisps / chocolate / peanuts and general picking at things would be my downfall, not to mention having a few pints or the rare pizza or Chinese. I could go a week or two without chocolate and then have a bar three nights on the trot so if I'm motivated I will stay off it. Like when I started my gym program I randomly decided to give up sugar in my tea, so when I put my mind to it I know I can achieve it. By following his program and having a so-so diet I'm around the 13 stone 2 pounds mark now. I'm close to the weight I want to start my pre-season at (13 stone) and when I finish my pre-season I hope to have shed half a stone over the course of the 6 weeks or so it will last. To do that I will cut out the picking and the alcohol. I'm hitting 28 this year so want to give myself one big season and see how I get on! I'm going to continue on the program but cut it to 2 nights a week gym work + 2 or 3 (friendly dependent) nights a week pre-season training. He has told me that the reps will decrease and the weight increase, so he is looking for me to build up my power and strength. I'm also going to keep it up and revert to a more dedicated program during the season. We had a 12 week period last year with no games due to the weather. As a result our training dropped off in intensity and my fitness felt it and my weight felt it as a result. It's easy to have pints / eat what you want when you are counteracting it with training, least that's the lie I used to tell myself so I'm hoping to address that this season as well.

    So having said all that, in terms of tips this is what I can offer you with nothing to back it up bar my own experience in the last 6 weeks:

    - Talk to a gym instructor / personal trainer and get a program for strength and flexibility. Tell them of your past injuries and where you would like to focus on improving. For me it is my thigh, I'v had a few tears there in the past and I also have tightness in my shoulder.

    - Do cooldowns, they are a big help for injury prevention and flexibility

    - Give yourself at least 1 day off a week, just commenting on your every night ambitions. I tried gym sessions 4 days on the trot and your muscles just give out. I try do 2 days on, 1 day off, 3 days on, 1 day off now You can't train to close on failure every night. You will see the benefit in taking a day off come the next training session

    - Listen to your body. My mate was over ambitious on some things, he might say 12 reps and I would struggle for 10, my latest was the arm extended plank, went from 45 to 60 seconds and my arms just give out around the 40 mark. Readjust expectations accordingly or you become frustrated.

    - Maybe focus the general cardio work into something more explosive. Do a circuit training session or a spinning class which I would highly recommend. I find jogging and being on a bike doesn't do much for me and hasn't helped me in the past. It's obviously decent for weight loss don't get me wrong but tailor your generic cardio towards your goal. I done a spinning class every weekend last pre-pre season and I really felt the benefit of it when we started running with the club. Previously I used to do some laps and general runs but it didn't prepare me for shuttle runs and sprints.

    Wasn't expecting to write as much! If I think of anything else I will post it here and let you know how my pre-season works out.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,515 ✭✭✭tupac_healy


    witless1 wrote: »
    This year I done my first structured pre-pre season! I roped in a mate of mine who does some personal training and physio work to do me out weekly programs. I basically wanted to hit pre-season running so to speak. I'v had the last few seasons where I finished a season injured or got injured coming into pre-season. To be fair some were impact injuries, joys of playing ball :) So I'm currently finishing out my 6th week with pre-season due to start next Tuesday. I'v done 4 gym sessions a week and a weekly spinning session, occasionally fitting in a game of XI a side on the astro but I'm trying to limit my football. The one game I did play recently I got a bruised shin out of it which knocked my gym sessions out for a while, so the one advice I would give you is knock 5 a side on the head, you will have enough football come pre-season.

    The program he gave me focused on flexibility and strength work, a lot of it is free weights and general core work. I had zero experience with free weights before it and after a few weeks I have a lot more confidence in going into that section of the gym. Youtube videos and helpful gym instructors really go a long way. In terms of free weights I have done a decent selection with variations for each upper body muscle group (lats, shoulders, triceps etc.) so it has been the likes of a shoulder press or arnold press, seated row / bent over row, squats, dumbbell flys (on an exercise ball was fun!) and recently to deadlifts. Other core based exercises are press ups, lunges (with weights at your side / bar on your back) and other such body weight resistances, namely variants of the plank. I had a good tolerance for the plank (around 4 mins) so he gave me different variations like opposites plank (on one arm + opposite leg), opposites with arm extended (press up style) and side planks with variations like dips or raise your leg. Those slight variations have really challenged me on it I have to say, arms shaking and body giving up but its a nice measure of your progress and you can see it coming along over time. Each week is focusing on something else for me. Each gym session is 8-10 exercises with mostly 2 sets of each, sometimes 3 on specific ones which takes me about an hour including warmup and warmdown, with the stretches in the latter important for injury prevention / flexibility.

    What I have noticed is obviously an increase in strength, I can feel my arms have gotten bigger, probably not visible to others but I notice it. I'v lost about 6 pounds with a very so so diet. I would eat my main meals very healthy enough, make all my own sauces, eat lots of fruit and veg, try to minimise having big carb based dinners. I'm a picker though, crisps / chocolate / peanuts and general picking at things would be my downfall, not to mention having a few pints or the rare pizza or Chinese. I could go a week or two without chocolate and then have a bar three nights on the trot so if I'm motivated I will stay off it. Like when I started my gym program I randomly decided to give up sugar in my tea, so when I put my mind to it I know I can achieve it. By following his program and having a so-so diet I'm around the 13 stone 2 pounds mark now. I'm close to the weight I want to start my pre-season at (13 stone) and when I finish my pre-season I hope to have shed half a stone over the course of the 6 weeks or so it will last. To do that I will cut out the picking and the alcohol. I'm hitting 28 this year so want to give myself one big season and see how I get on! I'm going to continue on the program but cut it to 2 nights a week gym work + 2 or 3 (friendly dependent) nights a week pre-season training. He has told me that the reps will decrease and the weight increase, so he is looking for me to build up my power and strength. I'm also going to keep it up and revert to a more dedicated program during the season. We had a 12 week period last year with no games due to the weather. As a result our training dropped off in intensity and my fitness felt it and my weight felt it as a result. It's easy to have pints / eat what you want when you are counteracting it with training, least that's the lie I used to tell myself so I'm hoping to address that this season as well.

    So having said all that, in terms of tips this is what I can offer you with nothing to back it up bar my own experience in the last 6 weeks:

    - Talk to a gym instructor / personal trainer and get a program for strength and flexibility. Tell them of your past injuries and where you would like to focus on improving. For me it is my thigh, I'v had a few tears there in the past and I also have tightness in my shoulder.

    - Do cooldowns, they are a big help for injury prevention and flexibility

    - Give yourself at least 1 day off a week, just commenting on your every night ambitions. I tried gym sessions 4 days on the trot and your muscles just give out. I try do 2 days on, 1 day off, 3 days on, 1 day off now You can't train to close on failure every night. You will see the benefit in taking a day off come the next training session

    - Listen to your body. My mate was over ambitious on some things, he might say 12 reps and I would struggle for 10, my latest was the arm extended plank, went from 45 to 60 seconds and my arms just give out around the 40 mark. Readjust expectations accordingly or you become frustrated.

    - Maybe focus the general cardio work into something more explosive. Do a circuit training session or a spinning class which I would highly recommend. I find jogging and being on a bike doesn't do much for me and hasn't helped me in the past. It's obviously decent for weight loss don't get me wrong but tailor your generic cardio towards your goal. I done a spinning class every weekend last pre-pre season and I really felt the benefit of it when we started running with the club. Previously I used to do some laps and general runs but it didn't prepare me for shuttle runs and sprints.

    Wasn't expecting to write as much! If I think of anything else I will post it here and let you know how my pre-season works out.

    Thanks for that, I've read through it a few times now ans there is stuff in there I will take on board for sure...

    Almost eveyone agreea about the spinning classes so that is something I will definitely do. In addition to that im going to go for a kettle bell workout program and im buying a foam roller tohelp sstretch out those tight areas!!

    I do realise that focusing too much on cardio will not do much for toning and making me more 'explosive' which I think everyone that plays football would agree is just so important, it can make the difference so thats what im going for.


    With regarsds my weight im down to 77.9 now so im pretty happy regards diet and cardio, so I think adding core strength as mentioned above is what I need to focus on now.

    The only issue I have.is I work 12 hour irregular shifts and the summer is a terrible time for me, ppractically live in work! But I will make the effort to get to some classes


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 360 ✭✭witless1


    Aye its hard enough to get to the gym with regular shifts but those kinda hours and the fact we have sunshine makes it difficult! I'v just gotten my program for this week and its more or less a continuation with more strength work and less traditional core work. Just a quick name check of some of the "new" things I am going to be doing, not really new in that they are variations of stuff I have been doing recently: spider press ups, plank climbers, russian twists with a med ball, squat & shoulder press, renegade row. Those slight changes keep it interesting, I'd get very bored sticking to the same exercises not to mention I wouldn't see any gains. Pre-season kicking off tomorrow so I'm going to be taking it handy on the gym work this week, we have 3 training sessions scheduled for this week so I would hope to fit in 2 gym sessions at some point to keep things ticking over.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,515 ✭✭✭tupac_healy


    witless1 wrote: »
    Aye its hard enough to get to the gym with regular shifts but those kinda hours and the fact we have sunshine makes it difficult! I'v just gotten my program for this week and its more or less a continuation with more strength work and less traditional core work. Just a quick name check of some of the "new" things I am going to be doing, not really new in that they are variations of stuff I have been doing recently: spider press ups, plank climbers, russian twists with a med ball, squat & shoulder press, renegade row. Those slight changes keep it interesting, I'd get very bored sticking to the same exercises not to mention I wouldn't see any gains. Pre-season kicking off tomorrow so I'm going to be taking it handy on the gym work this week, we have 3 training sessions scheduled for this week so I would hope to fit in 2 gym sessions at some point to keep things ticking over.

    It's even harder for me as I don't have set shifts! Just covering holdiays both days and nights, so the gym is especially hard for me, but not going to lie, I plain don't like the gym! Don't know why, I like working out and putting the effort in, but never a gym man....


    Update anyhow....

    I'm down to 77.5kg, things are going very well and I'm proud of myself as this time I DID put in the effort, lots of times I've 'tried' but not this time, I've really gotten into it. I bought kettle bells and man they give you some full body workout!!! About 20-30 mins and you can really really feel the muscle working hard! Out of everything I'm doing and everything I've tried, the kettle bells are defiantly the way forward for me. It's hard to explain the exact benefit but I do feel stronger, like years have come off my body!!!


    Going to keep up the hard work, thanks a million for all the advice, keep it coming ;)



    OH one more thing......

    I've decided that NOT having set routines is the way forward for me, I was thinking in work today that if I looked at my schedule tonight and it said cycling tonight, I would have been down as I was just not in the mood.... Instead I was gunning for kettle bells so that's what I did! I think to hold my interest I'm going to have to go through a very wide range of activities.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 360 ✭✭witless1


    It's even harder for me as I don't have set shifts! Just covering holdiays both days and nights, so the gym is especially hard for me, but not going to lie, I plain don't like the gym! Don't know why, I like working out and putting the effort in, but never a gym man....

    I know what I am going to say here is in contradiction to the last paragraph you wrote! I was NEVER a gym man. I was in a gym for two years and used the pool more than the gym. When I did go gymming it was mindless cardio, used to drive me demented. I would do the X-trainer or treadmill for an hour or aimlessly do weights. Grand in a sense for my fitness but it wasn't taxing. The gym I am in now has a lot of classes and in the last two years in that gym (outside of my recent structured program!) I'v done more classes that traditional workouts. So in your case you could pick a gym that does spinning, kettle bells, circuits, body blast style weights / aerobics. They are far more entertaining and coming from a football background I always found it easier to train with instruction and motivation.

    My two nights of pre-season went great, I could really see the benefit of having kept myself tipping over. The running while difficult was manageable, the only complaint and a happy one was the heat and lack of air while doing the session! Weight wise the intensity of 2 pre-season sessions and eating right knocked 1.5 pounds off me this week. I typically lose a half stone in pre-season over a 6 week period so that's about right for me.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,515 ✭✭✭tupac_healy


    witless1 wrote: »
    I know what I am going to say here is in contradiction to the last paragraph you wrote! I was NEVER a gym man. I was in a gym for two years and used the pool more than the gym. When I did go gymming it was mindless cardio, used to drive me demented. I would do the X-trainer or treadmill for an hour or aimlessly do weights. Grand in a sense for my fitness but it wasn't taxing. The gym I am in now has a lot of classes and in the last two years in that gym (outside of my recent structured program!) I'v done more classes that traditional workouts. So in your case you could pick a gym that does spinning, kettle bells, circuits, body blast style weights / aerobics. They are far more entertaining and coming from a football background I always found it easier to train with instruction and motivation.

    My two nights of pre-season went great, I could really see the benefit of having kept myself tipping over. The running while difficult was manageable, the only complaint and a happy one was the heat and lack of air while doing the session! Weight wise the intensity of 2 pre-season sessions and eating right knocked 1.5 pounds off me this week. I typically lose a half stone in pre-season over a 6 week period so that's about right for me.

    I get what your saying, but I honestly don't think I need the gym, I'm very very self motivated these days and the sheer amount of instructional videos on YouTube (I know it's not the same!!!!!) is pretty helpful ;)


    Regards the weight loss.... I started say a month and a half ago, maybe a tad over but not 2 months..... I've lost 5KG!!!! No bull**** man, not pulling your leg. When I started I was 80.1 or 80.9Kg and I'm now down to 76 :D


    But in fairness, I'm sticking very strictly to the diet and working out intensely 6 Nights a week...


    I'm almost there, ill certainly be more fit than I've ever been (again I mean that, I'm 100% positive) by the start of the season :D


    I appreciate ALL the advice, especially regards the kettle bells, I can't speak highly enough about the, to everyone, 15-20 mins every day and I feel so strong!


    Keep the advice coming as I don't want things to get stale, I want to try different things, aim is here not to get I to a rut, have to mix it up


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,515 ✭✭✭tupac_healy


    How do you guys feel about protien shakes for breakfast when your really pressed for time? Ideally I would do eggs every morn but I'm only talking about when its not possible?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 36,434 ✭✭✭✭LuckyLloyd


    How do you guys feel about protien shakes for breakfast when your really pressed for time? Ideally I would do eggs every morn but I'm only talking about when its not possible?

    Bad idea. A protein shake in of itself is most definitely not a meal. It's designed to absorb quickly and not release energy over a longer period. If you feel you absolutely must, get something along the lines of casein + oats as it will be more complex and slower releasing energy.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,515 ✭✭✭tupac_healy


    LuckyLloyd wrote: »
    Bad idea. A protein shake in of itself is most definitely not a meal. It's designed to absorb quickly and not release energy over a longer period. If you feel you absolutely must, get something along the lines of casein + oats as it will be more complex and slower releasing energy.

    What's casein & oats???


    Is it a relatively quick alternative???.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9,390 ✭✭✭Stench Blossoms


    What's casein & oats???


    Is it a relatively quick alternative???.

    Casein is a type of protein and oats ares porridge oats.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,515 ✭✭✭tupac_healy


    Goal achieved!!!!!!


    Hell of a lot quicker than t thought too!!! Hopped up on the scales today and shocked to see 74.9kg!!!!!


    Awww yeah!!!! Now to finish off the 6-pack!!!!!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,241 ✭✭✭Vanolder


    Just flicking through this thread now. Surprised at the lack of sprints / interval training, particularly if the goal is to get fit for football rather than losing a few lbs? 5 a side football is grand, but does not translate to the football field in regards fitness. You should look to introduce more long distance speed work. Something like 70 yards at 40% speed, walk slowly back to start point and repeat x 5. 50 yards at 60% speed, walk back slowly x 5. 20-30 yards at 80% x 5, leaving a minute or so between each sprint. That's only a rough plan, which you can play around with, but you never run at 100% both because you will fatigue yourself but also, it's very rare you sprint 100% during a game so what you are essentially doing is replicating the types of runs you would make during a game.

    I'd also introduce squats, lunges, pull ups and pushups/bench- one session a week.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,515 ✭✭✭tupac_healy


    Vanolder wrote: »
    Just flicking through this thread now. Surprised at the lack of sprints / interval training, particularly if the goal is to get fit for football rather than losing a few lbs? 5 a side football is grand, but does not translate to the football field in regards fitness. You should look to introduce more long distance speed work. Something like 70 yards at 40% speed, walk slowly back to start point and repeat x 5. 50 yards at 60% speed, walk back slowly x 5. 20-30 yards at 80% x 5, leaving a minute or so between each sprint. That's only a rough plan, which you can play around with, but you never run at 100% both because you will fatigue yourself but also, it's very rare you sprint 100% during a game so what you are essentially doing is replicating the types of runs you would make during a game.

    I'd also introduce squats, lunges, pull ups and pushups/bench- one session a week.

    Ah I meant to post up last night.... HUGE change of plan!!! Did a few doggies last night (sprint to 3 cones for those who dont know) and was terrible at them!


    So from now till the start of season its ALL sprint work im doing


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,375 ✭✭✭Antisocialiser


    Vanolder wrote: »
    Just flicking through this thread now. Surprised at the lack of sprints / interval training, particularly if the goal is to get fit for football rather than losing a few lbs? 5 a side football is grand, but does not translate to the football field in regards fitness. You should look to introduce more long distance speed work. Something like 70 yards at 40% speed, walk slowly back to start point and repeat x 5. 50 yards at 60% speed, walk back slowly x 5. 20-30 yards at 80% x 5, leaving a minute or so between each sprint. That's only a rough plan, which you can play around with, but you never run at 100% both because you will fatigue yourself but also, it's very rare you sprint 100% during a game so what you are essentially doing is replicating the types of runs you would make during a game.

    I'd also introduce squats, lunges, pull ups and pushups/bench- one session a week.

    Sorry that's nonsense. No reason not to do sprint conditioning. Something like this maybe:
    Informed Performance - Sprint Conditioning
    10, 20, 30, 40 and 50 metres…the jog out was at recovery pace…the player turned and dropped at the line face down on the ground and placed their hands behind their head then broke off the ground and sprinted to the start line. 10m first then 20m and so on. They got a minute after each complete set. We did 3 sets and then he got a 2 minute break.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,182 ✭✭✭Danye


    Vanolder wrote: »
    Just flicking through this thread now. Surprised at the lack of sprints / interval training, particularly if the goal is to get fit for football rather than losing a few lbs? 5 a side football is grand, but does not translate to the football field in regards fitness. You should look to introduce more long distance speed work. Something like 70 yards at 40% speed, walk slowly back to start point and repeat x 5. 50 yards at 60% speed, walk back slowly x 5. 20-30 yards at 80% x 5, leaving a minute or so between each sprint. That's only a rough plan, which you can play around with, but you never run at 100% both because you will fatigue yourself but also, it's very rare you sprint 100% during a game so what you are essentially doing is replicating the types of runs you would make during a game.

    I'd also introduce squats, lunges, pull ups and pushups/bench- one session a week.

    How does playing football not translate to eh...playing football?? :confused:


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,515 ✭✭✭tupac_healy


    Danye wrote: »
    How does playing football not translate to eh...playing football?? :confused:


    Do you play both?? Only asking because if you do play 5 a side astro and 11 a side on grass (league formatted) then you would seriously not ask that question :D


    5 a side astro and 11 a side at the weekend may as well be different sports altogeher, world of difference


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,182 ✭✭✭Danye


    Do you play both?? Only asking because if you do play 5 a side astro and 11 a side on grass (league formatted) then you would seriously not ask that question :D


    5 a side astro and 11 a side at the weekend may as well be different sports altogeher, world of difference

    I do play yes. My point being that he said 5 a side wouldn't have much cross over to 11 a side, when in fact, in my experience it does.

    5 a side on astro is quick and sharp. You have to make the same sort of sharp sprints in 5 a side as you would have in a 11 a side game. On top of that you can also get to work on your touch, awareness, speed of thought and passing ability in situations similar to what you'll be facing 11 v 11.

    Throw in the fact that your actually playing football (which is what your training for right?) and you get to work with the ball I would say it's got a really good crossover to an 11 a side game.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,515 ✭✭✭tupac_healy


    Danye wrote: »
    I do play yes. My point being that he said 5 a side wouldn't have much cross over to 11 a side, when in fact, in my experience it does.

    5 a side on astro is quick and sharp. You have to make the same sort of sharp sprints in 5 a side as you would have in a 11 a side game. On top of that you can also get to work on your touch, awareness, speed of thought and passing ability in situations similar to what you'll be facing 11 v 11.

    Throw in the fact that your actually playing football (which is what your training for right?) and you get to work with the ball I would say it's got a really good crossover to an 11 a side game.

    those highlighted are about it..... Passing does not come into it as the runs off the ball, timing of the runs etc are totally different.....


    In Astro, typically you can cover most of the ground with the 1 hour period, but on a pitch you are somewhat restricted to your role in the team, example one min you could be defending in an astro game and easily spend 10-15 mins up front :D On a pitch you need more dicipline, you are not involved in the game as much, so mental concentration is required, set pieces etc....


    They are a world apart, they share goals and a ball, thats about it :P


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,182 ✭✭✭Danye


    those highlighted are about it..... Passing does not come into it as the runs off the ball, timing of the runs etc are totally different.....


    In Astro, typically you can cover most of the ground with the 1 hour period, but on a pitch you are somewhat restricted to your role in the team, example one min you could be defending in an astro game and easily spend 10-15 mins up front :D On a pitch you need more dicipline, you are not involved in the game as much, so mental concentration is required, set pieces etc....


    They are a world apart, they share goals and a ball, thats about it :P

    Your now talking about how they're different tactically. I agree that tactically 5 aside on any surface is miles away from 11 a side competitive league football but where we originally not talking about the physical side of football and how to best condition yourself for the upcoming season?

    In 5 a side your usually a lot more active than in a standard league game (position dependent) as you've pointed out. So can you not see how 60 minutes of non stop football, regardless of pitch size or team size would benefit you when you step onto a pitch for an 11 v 11 match?

    A lot of top teams are now basing their pre season off 3 v 3 on a 5 a side pitch, 5 v 5 on an 8 a side pitch and 8 v 8 on an 11 a side pitch as opposed to the old nonsensical long winded runs. The reason being that it replicates the actions and activities that you would be undertaking in a match, plus on a bigger pitch you get to improve your fitness because you have more ground to cover.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,515 ✭✭✭tupac_healy


    Danye wrote: »
    Your now talking about how they're different tactically. I agree that tactically 5 aside on any surface is miles away from 11 a side competitive league football but where we originally not talking about the physical side of football and how to best condition yourself for the upcoming season?

    In 5 a side your usually a lot more active than in a standard league game (position dependent) as you've pointed out. So can you not see how 60 minutes of non stop football, regardless of pitch size or team size would benefit you when you step onto a pitch for an 11 v 11 match?

    A lot of top teams are now basing their pre season off 3 v 3 on a 5 a side pitch, 5 v 5 on an 8 a side pitch and 8 v 8 on an 11 a side pitch as opposed to the old nonsensical long winded runs. The reason being that it replicates the actions and activities that you would be undertaking in a match, plus on a bigger pitch you get to improve your fitness because you have more ground to cover.

    Even physically they are worlds apart! 5 a sides on the whole tend to be less competitive as you generally play with your mates and bad tackles etc tend not to fly in....

    League games are far more agressive, no I totally agree with the person that said 5 a sides will not stand to you regards pre season training, and most players tend to avoid 5 a sides during the close season.

    I agrwe with the point of the long winded runs being ditched as the 5 asides and general training done these days is enough cardio, well it should be!!! But sprints/doggies are the thing to work on at this stage, that burst of acceleration and the ability to sprint flat out 20-30 seconds at a time is what I lack for sure at the moment. Its vital too for match play especially if your past 30 like me (fullback) playing against faster/younger tricky wingers (of which I was a long long time ago!!!!)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,182 ✭✭✭Danye


    Even physically they are worlds apart! 5 a sides on the whole tend to be less competitive as you generally play with your mates and bad tackles etc tend not to fly in....

    League games are far more agressive, no I totally agree with the person that said 5 a sides will not stand to you regards pre season training, and most players tend to avoid 5 a sides during the close season.

    I agrwe with the point of the long winded runs being ditched as the 5 asides and general training done these days is enough cardio, well it should be!!! But sprints/doggies are the thing to work on at this stage, that burst of acceleration and the ability to sprint flat out 20-30 seconds at a time is what I lack for sure at the moment. Its vital too for match play especially if your past 30 like me (fullback) playing against faster/younger tricky wingers (of which I was a long long time ago!!!!)

    Well anytime I've played 5 a side it's been intense, non stop football for 60 minutes (30 minutes a half) and it's always been of benefit to me.

    Do you play small sided games in training?

    I'm not saying don't work on sprints or doggies (whatever they are) but to drop 5 a side football from your pre season training and concentrate fully on sprinting is not the best way to go to prepare yourself for a football season.

    Do you want to play football or have you intentions on becoming a sprinter?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,515 ✭✭✭tupac_healy


    Danye wrote: »
    Well anytime I've played 5 a side it's been intense, non stop football for 60 minutes (30 minutes a half) and it's always been of benefit to me.

    Do you play small sided games in training?

    I'm not saying don't work on sprints or doggies (whatever they are) but to drop 5 a side football from your pre season training and concentrate fully on sprinting is not the best way to go to prepare yourself for a football season.

    Do you want to play football or have you intentions on becoming a sprinter?

    Im not going to drop 5 a side, and the only reason is because I like 5 a side, some lads I know (some top top players in Cork) just dont play any 5 a side just because they dont like it. Its well known not to be good for your hamstrings either..... but I love it so ill continue, but I dont class it at all as part of my pre-season....

    We do mini games as part of training, but we are lucky that we have a sort of mini grass pitch, which will be a huge plus to us this season because as ive said, some of our lads also dont like astro. Its personal preference really some love asteo (me) and some dont...

    But I would never class astro as part of proper team training (if thats all your doing, I.e. no drills or sprints) there is really very little team benifit to 5 a sides.....

    It does sound to me that your 5 a side games are far more competitive so maybe you are getring more out of it than me, but I know my weak areas that I need to focus on and astro will certainly not help me.... its the very very hard road pf sprints/recovery for me im afraid


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,182 ✭✭✭Danye


    Im not going to drop 5 a side, and the only reason is because I like 5 a side, some lads I know (some top top players in Cork) just dont play any 5 a side just because they dont like it. Its well known not to be good for your hamstrings either..... but I love it so ill continue, but I dont class it at all as part of my pre-season....

    We do mini games as part of training, but we are lucky that we have a sort of mini grass pitch, which will be a huge plus to us this season because as ive said, some of our lads also dont like astro. Its personal preference really some love asteo (me) and some dont...

    But I would never class astro as part of proper team training (if thats all your doing, I.e. no drills or sprints) there is really very little team benifit to 5 a sides.....

    It does sound to me that your 5 a side games are far more competitive so maybe you are getring more out of it than me, but I know my weak areas that I need to focus on and astro will certainly not help me.... its the very very hard road pf sprints/recovery for me im afraid

    Ok so they don't like it. Just because they don't like it, that is a good enough reason for you saying it has no benefit to your training? It's well known to affect your hamstrings?? Could you provide any links to such information?


    Right so, get over the whole "astro" thing. You and your team still do small sided games. Why do you think your manager or coach use the small sided games?

    I think if you where just doing small sided games, regardless of the surface you where doing them on would be a lot more beneficial than just sprints and other drills. It's as close to a match situation as your going to get and your using a ball. With sprints your just sprinting.

    Yes you do know what's best for you. But keep the small sided games (regardless of the surface) and keep the sprints. Don't drop the football to free up more time to sprint unless your looking to become a sprinter.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,515 ✭✭✭tupac_healy


    Danye wrote: »
    Ok so they don't like it. Just because they don't like it, that is a good enough reason for you saying it has no benefit to your training? It's well known to affect your hamstrings?? Could you provide any links to such information?


    Right so, get over the whole "astro" thing. You and your team still do small sided games. Why do you think your manager or coach use the small sided games?

    I think if you where just doing small sided games, regardless of the surface you where doing them on would be a lot more beneficial than just sprints and other drills. It's as close to a match situation as your going to get and your using a ball. With sprints your just sprinting.

    Yes you do know what's best for you. But keep the small sided games (regardless of the surface) and keep the sprints. Don't drop the football to free up more time to sprint unless your looking to become a sprinter.

    Oh.... ok.

    I thought it was pretty much accepted that astro puts a greater strain on your hamstrings than grass, but if its proof you need, fair enough.... here is is - tell me why did Beckham retire from football on PSG's SECOND LAST game of the season? World football knows the answer to this one. Sorry mate but your naieve if you believe otherwise.

    Small sided games, due to lack of space as generally teams dont train on fullsize pitches in the off season as they want to keep them in good condition.... again, I thought this was pretty much accpeted all through every league in ireland? Seriously, do you think if 22 players turned up at training a manager would not be bullin to get an 11 v 11 training game going????


    We have been back 2-3 weeks now and not done ANY games in training, be it 5 a side or not, we will but you need to work from a base and tou need to reach a competitve level regards your performance..... plenty of time throughtout the season for 5 s sides and sure anyway, your touch will come back very soon if you've not played for a while....


    For the last time, honestly at this stage 3 weeks away from kick off of the new season 5 a side astro games are a total waste of time...


    We can aegue this all day, ive been playing now over 15 years and I know what my weaknesses are and what I need to work on, 5 a side aint it.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,182 ✭✭✭Danye


    Oh.... ok.

    I thought it was pretty much accepted that astro puts a greater strain on your hamstrings than grass, but if its proof you need, fair enough.... here is is - tell me why did Beckham retire from football on PSG's SECOND LAST game of the season? World football knows the answer to this one. Sorry mate but your naieve if you believe otherwise.

    Small sided games, due to lack of space as generally teams dont train on fullsize pitches in the off season as they want to keep them in good condition.... again, I thought this was pretty much accpeted all through every league in ireland? Seriously, do you think if 22 players turned up at training a manager would not be bullin to get an 11 v 11 training game going????


    We have been back 2-3 weeks now and not done ANY games in training, be it 5 a side or not, we will but you need to work from a base and tou need to reach a competitve level regards your performance..... plenty of time throughtout the season for 5 s sides and sure anyway, your touch will come back very soon if you've not played for a while....


    For the last time, honestly at this stage 3 weeks away from kick off of the new season 5 a side astro games are a total waste of time...


    We can aegue this all day, ive been playing now over 15 years and I know what my weaknesses are and what I need to work on, 5 a side aint it.

    Are you feeling your hamstring now, or at all over the last 3 weeks that you've been back pre season?

    I don't know, why did David Beckham retire on PSG's 2nd last game of the season? Because he was playing astro the night before was it? :rolleyes:

    We have 30+ up training and the most we usually would ever play would be 6 v 6.

    Your back 2 / 3 weeks and you've yet to play any small side games?? :eek::confused:

    Have you's done any possesion games or pass and movement games even? Have you seen a ball at all at training?

    Again, stop getting hung up on "astro". Any small sided game would be of benefit to you. Astro or otherwise.

    You've been playing 15 years. What does that mean? The game has moved on a lot in 15 years. Your teams training and your own training philosophy hasn't.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,515 ✭✭✭tupac_healy


    Danye wrote: »
    Are you feeling your hamstring now, or at all over the last 3 weeks that you've been back pre season?

    I don't know, why did David Beckham retire on PSG's 2nd last game of the season? Because he was playing astro the night before was it? :rolleyes:

    We have 30+ up training and the most we usually would ever play would be 6 v 6.

    Your back 2 / 3 weeks and you've yet to play any small side games?? :eek::confused:

    Have you's done any possesion games or pass and movement games even? Have you seen a ball at all at training?

    Again, stop getting hung up on "astro". Any small sided game would be of benefit to you. Astro or otherwise.

    You've been playing 15 years. What does that mean? The game has moved on a lot in 15 years. Your teams training and your own training philosophy hasn't.

    Not feeling my hamstrings as I am doing a lot more stretching and using a foam roller....


    Beckham retired 1 game early as the final game was being played on an artificial pitch and he said himself that his hamstrings can't take artificail pitches anymore....

    If ye get 30 and do 6 v 6's then fine, not my place to say how ye should train, thats a job for your gaffer.....

    I'd say 80% of our training to date has been ball work, just not mini-games, we will be incorporating them soon, but need to work on the fitness core of the team first, no real point being 'the best player you can be' for 20mins now is there?

    We have played full friendlies, have more lined up....

    There are different forms of possiession drills that are not mini-games

    Again (sorry to say this but it's the last time I'm saying this) relative to what happens on a FULL grass pitch, ASTRO HAS VERY VERY VERY VERY LITTLE BEARING ON THAT!!!!!!

    Yes I have been playing now for more than 15 years, my point is (and the main theme of the thread) is that I (NOT MY TEAM) am trying to do MY bit to get MYSELF into peak physical condition, as any team that trains twice per week, working with work restrictions, player injuries, weather conditions etc a club can only realisticlly be expected to help you achieve a certain playable level. For me, coming towards the end of my career I made a concious decision to better myself, been playing 5 a sides now for those 15 years easily and I'm telling you now....


    5 a sides are grand, but if you want to go to that next level, if you want to (for once for me) be the best you can then just forget about them, I am in physically the best condition of my life right now, NO JOKE! Believe me, it has NOTHING to do with 5 a sides, working on your core strength will give you the edge, as I've said, the touch, vision etc that makes you a good player will be there regardless (1-2 matches and they will return, no matter what, i.e. match sharpness) but to go that extra little bit that the others don't, forget 5 a sides and focus on yourself......



    Sorry man, I think its safe to say we disagree upon this. In my eyes, for the purpose of achieving the goal I have set myself, 5 a side have 0 to do with it, not part of my plan whatsoever, I will play away but I will defo not class them as part of my personal play, they are a good way to have a laugh with my mates and do some light running, work on my touch and shooting but thats it.....


    Bettering myself is the main aim here


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,182 ✭✭✭Danye


    Not feeling my hamstrings as I am doing a lot more stretching and using a foam roller....


    Beckham retired 1 game early as the final game was being played on an artificial pitch and he said himself that his hamstrings can't take artificail pitches anymore....

    If ye get 30 and do 6 v 6's then fine, not my place to say how ye should train, thats a job for your gaffer.....

    I'd say 80% of our training to date has been ball work, just not mini-games, we will be incorporating them soon, but need to work on the fitness core of the team first, no real point being 'the best player you can be' for 20mins now is there?

    We have played full friendlies, have more lined up....

    There are different forms of possiession drills that are not mini-games

    Again (sorry to say this but it's the last time I'm saying this) relative to what happens on a FULL grass pitch, ASTRO HAS VERY VERY VERY VERY LITTLE BEARING ON THAT!!!!!!

    Yes I have been playing now for more than 15 years, my point is (and the main theme of the thread) is that I (NOT MY TEAM) am trying to do MY bit to get MYSELF into peak physical condition, as any team that trains twice per week, working with work restrictions, player injuries, weather conditions etc a club can only realisticlly be expected to help you achieve a certain playable level. For me, coming towards the end of my career I made a concious decision to better myself, been playing 5 a sides now for those 15 years easily and I'm telling you now....


    5 a sides are grand, but if you want to go to that next level, if you want to (for once for me) be the best you can then just forget about them, I am in physically the best condition of my life right now, NO JOKE! Believe me, it has NOTHING to do with 5 a sides, working on your core strength will give you the edge, as I've said, the touch, vision etc that makes you a good player will be there regardless (1-2 matches and they will return, no matter what, i.e. match sharpness) but to go that extra little bit that the others don't, forget 5 a sides and focus on yourself......



    Sorry man, I think its safe to say we disagree upon this. In my eyes, for the purpose of achieving the goal I have set myself, 5 a side have 0 to do with it, not part of my plan whatsoever, I will play away but I will defo not class them as part of my personal play, they are a good way to have a laugh with my mates and do some light running, work on my touch and shooting but thats it.....


    Bettering myself is the main aim here
    Not feeling my hamstrings as I am doing a lot more stretching and using a foam roller....

    The ground over the last 3 weeks has been as hard as astro and yet you haven't felt your hamstrings because you've been doing more stretching and foam rolling. Maybe if yourself or your team mates did that after astro it wouldn't be bothering their hamstrings.
    I'd say 80% of our training to date has been ball work, just not mini-games, we will be incorporating them soon, but need to work on the fitness core of the team first, no real point being 'the best player you can be' for 20mins now is there?

    But you can get your core fitness from small sided games as well. That's my point. It would be wrong to drop your small sided games as was previously mentioned by another poster.
    Again (sorry to say this but it's the last time I'm saying this) relative to what happens on a FULL grass pitch, ASTRO HAS VERY VERY VERY VERY LITTLE BEARING ON THAT!!!!!!

    Why are you continuing to reference astro? As I said lets drop the astro. Play your small sided games on whatever surface you want. They would still be of great benefit to you.

    Yes I have been playing now for more than 15 years, my point is (and the main theme of the thread) is that I (NOT MY TEAM) am trying to do MY bit to get MYSELF into peak physical condition, as any team that trains twice per week, working with work restrictions, player injuries, weather conditions etc a club can only realisticlly be expected to help you achieve a certain playable level. For me, coming towards the end of my career I made a concious decision to better myself, been playing 5 a sides now for those 15 years easily and I'm telling you now....


    5 a sides are grand, but if you want to go to that next level, if you want to (for once for me) be the best you can then just forget about them, I am in physically the best condition of my life right now, NO JOKE! Believe me, it has NOTHING to do with 5 a sides, working on your core strength will give you the edge, as I've said, the touch, vision etc that makes you a good player will be there regardless (1-2 matches and they will return, no matter what, i.e. match sharpness) but to go that extra little bit that the others don't, forget 5 a sides and focus on yourself......

    I'm not saying completely base your whole session around small sided games but to completely drop them to focus on more running is nonsensical.

    It seems to me that your goal is to get as fit as you can, not be the best player that you can be. If fitness is your goal then work away with what your doing. If improving as a player is your goal keep the small sided games. If you wanted to get good at something you do as much of it as you can.

    Fitness is a massive side of football but it's no good if your lacking awareness, a good first touch, being sharp and good passing ability.

    Watch this video from a coach who knows a lot more than you or me and hopefully it might broaden your prehistoric views

    http://performance.fourfourtwo.com/fitness/small-games-big-gains

    Edit : Also have a look at these,

    http://performance.fourfourtwo.com/fitness/small-sided-gains

    http://performance.fourfourtwo.com/fitness/the-fastest-way-to-stay-in-shape

    http://performance.fourfourtwo.com/technique/wenger-5-skills-for-5-a-side


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,515 ✭✭✭tupac_healy


    Ok....

    Lets try this once more from another angle as circles does not even begin to describe it....


    Try this...

    At Utd, Rooney and Ronaldo were actually thought of in pretty much the same esteem, however the coaches agreed that Ronaldo having stayed behind in sessions, did a lot of gym work and listened to his dieticians. Which is why its firmly believed worldwide that Ronaldo has progressed in his career and Rooney has not.

    Now they did the same sessions at training, had the same coaches/drills but one had the drive for more! Do you see whay im getting at?

    For the last time, we are doing ball drills and introducing mini games from next week! This is all pre thought out....

    Im focusing on my condition physically and as far as the team goes, it will come naturally


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,182 ✭✭✭Danye


    Ok.

    Best of luck with your season.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,515 ✭✭✭tupac_healy


    LuckyLloyd wrote: »
    Bad idea. A protein shake in of itself is most definitely not a meal. It's designed to absorb quickly and not release energy over a longer period. If you feel you absolutely must, get something along the lines of casein + oats as it will be more complex and slower releasing energy.

    Hi, just getting back to this, ive bought Casein and have porridge oats, how many oats do I mix with the shake in the mornings?

    I presume I just throw them in and dont have to cook em or anything??

    EDIT: oh im trying to cut as well rather than Bulk so is this the way forward or will it hold me back????


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,515 ✭✭✭tupac_healy


    Hi, just getting back to this, ive bought Casein and have porridge oats, how many oats do I mix with the shake in the mornings?

    I presume I just throw them in and dont have to cook em or anything??

    EDIT: oh im trying to cut as well rather than Bulk so is this the way forward or will it hold me back????

    Anyone??

    Been taking thr casein shake with a large spoonof oats for the last few mornings, need to know sshould I be mixing more or less oats?


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15 David K. Woodard


    I would say to achieve any goal or aim in our life we should be self motivated after that hard work and confidence is a very important factor to achieve our goal whatever it may be.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,515 ✭✭✭tupac_healy


    I would say to achieve any goal or aim in our life we should be self motivated after that hard work and confidence is a very important factor to achieve our goal whatever it may be.


    Thanks for that, being self-motivated is the most important factor for me. I am very self motivated about this and I'm really putting in the work, I'm nearly there!!!


    I have ditched the oats as part of the Casein and added a bananna instead, I am thing to maintain Ketosis for 2-3 weeks so my body will burn off the stored fat that needs to go (not that there is a whole lot, just those dreadded last few pounds that are most difficult to shift!), once this is complete I can then expand on my varity of foods :D

    So the planned diet for the next 3 weeks is:
    Breakfast - Casein + bananna for breakfast
    Morning Break - Spinach & tuna (few red onions for a bit of taste!) + Apple
    Lunch - Spinach & Chicken (Red onions & tiny bit of cottage cheese) + Bananna
    Dinner - Spinach and Chicken (lots of veg with this)
    Evening - Dark 85% choc & black coffee

    ** Lots of water thoughout the day



    Hoping within 2-3 weeks that the above diet combined with training twice per week with my regular kettle bell workout and jogging/cycling should be enough to shift those pesky extra pounds!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,726 ✭✭✭Rubber_Soul


    Keto with lots of fruit, chocolate and very little fat? Interesting...


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,515 ✭✭✭tupac_healy


    Keto with lots of fruit, chocolate and very little fat? Interesting...

    Should I cut the fruit????

    Choclate is 1 square of 85% Dark choc

    What sort of fats should I introduce?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9,390 ✭✭✭Stench Blossoms


    Should I cut the fruit????

    Choclate is 1 square of 85% Dark choc

    What sort of fats should I introduce?

    What you posted there is defo not keto.

    This is a sample of what I ate on Keto and I barely got into it.

    Breakfast: Bacon and eggs.
    Lunch: Cheesey chicken salsa bake
    Dunner: Chicken wrapped in bacon with cheese in the middle + veg.

    Introduce some avocados to your diet.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,515 ✭✭✭tupac_healy


    What you posted there is defo not keto.

    This is a sample of what I ate on Keto and I barely got into it.

    Breakfast: Bacon and eggs.
    Lunch: Cheesey chicken salsa bake
    Dunner: Chicken wrapped in bacon with cheese in the middle + veg.

    Introduce some avocados to your diet.

    For how long? And the end result?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,726 ✭✭✭Rubber_Soul


    Should I cut the fruit????

    Choclate is 1 square of 85% Dark choc

    What sort of fats should I introduce?

    With keto you're looking to drastically reduce carb intake and derive that lost energy from an increase in dietary fat. Just guesstimating but I'd say you're easily looking at 100+ gms of carbs there , I think most induction phases for keto diets limit you to under 20gms and later rise to about 50gms (not sure on this tbh).

    Keto isn't magic though, if you're still eating too much you won't lose weight. Do you count your calories or know your TDEE? Given the training you're doing I'm not sure why you would even want to be doing keto tbh.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,869 ✭✭✭thegreatiam


    With keto you're looking to drastically reduce carb intake and derive that lost energy from an increase in dietary fat. Just guesstimating but I'd say you're easily looking at 100+ gms of carbs there , I think most induction phases for keto diets limit you to under 20gms and later rise to about 50gms (not sure on this tbh).

    Keto isn't magic though, if you're still eating too much you won't lose weight. Do you count your calories or know your TDEE?

    site I was just reading wanted 30g a day max for 10 days.
    then you would measure with a pee stick to learn what your max is (anywhere up to 100g depending on the person.)


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9,390 ✭✭✭Stench Blossoms


    For how long? And the end result?

    TBH, it didn't last very long because I missed eating fruit, chocolate, yogurt etc.

    I don't think its a sustainable way of eating.

    The results were I grew an adam's apple.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,726 ✭✭✭Rubber_Soul


    site I was just reading wanted 30g a day max for 10 days.
    then you would measure with a pee stick to learn what your max is (anywhere up to 100g depending on the person.)

    Sounds about right tbh, I think I'm thinking of the early Atkins protocol.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,512 ✭✭✭runawaybishop


    Thanks for that, being self-motivated is the most important factor for me. I am very self motivated about this and I'm really putting in the work, I'm nearly there!!!


    I have ditched the oats as part of the Casein and added a bananna instead, I am thing to maintain Ketosis for 2-3 weeks so my body will burn off the stored fat that needs to go (not that there is a whole lot, just those dreadded last few pounds that are most difficult to shift!), once this is complete I can then expand on my varity of foods :D

    So the planned diet for the next 3 weeks is:
    Breakfast - Casein + bananna for breakfast
    Morning Break - Spinach & tuna (few red onions for a bit of taste!) + Apple
    Lunch - Spinach & Chicken (Red onions & tiny bit of cottage cheese) + Bananna
    Dinner - Spinach and Chicken (lots of veg with this)
    Evening - Dark 85% choc & black coffee

    ** Lots of water thoughout the day



    Hoping within 2-3 weeks that the above diet combined with training twice per week with my regular kettle bell workout and jogging/cycling should be enough to shift those pesky extra pounds!

    It takes a week to 10 days to get into keto properly and you need to eat way less carbs than you have above, 30 grams max to get into keto then you need to get keto sticks and measure your ketogens - you might be able to go back up in carbs and still stay in keto. You dont have enough fats in your diet, you need then for energy. You can also have some carbs after working out, or you can cycle.

    For what its worth, keto is a pain in the ass unless you absolutely love cheese, nuts and greek yoghurt. You'd be just as well counting your calories and watching carbs in general.

    BTW, you cant just drop off keto, you have to slowly cycle back up to using carbs as a fuel source otherwise you'll just put it all straight back on.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,515 ✭✭✭tupac_healy


    It takes a week to 10 days to get into keto properly and you need to eat way less carbs than you have above, 30 grams max to get into keto then you need to get keto sticks and measure your ketogens - you might be able to go back up in carbs and still stay in keto. You dont have enough fats in your diet, you need then for energy. You can also have some carbs after working out, or you can cycle.

    For what its worth, keto is a pain in the ass unless you absolutely love cheese, nuts and greek yoghurt. You'd be just as well counting your calories and watching carbs in general.

    BTW, you cant just drop off keto, you have to slowly cycle back up to using carbs as a fuel source otherwise you'll just put it all straight back on.

    Question for you, would I loose those last few Pesky Pounds by sticking on the diet I have listed above? And how Long would it take to see some definition in my abs?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,515 ✭✭✭tupac_healy


    It takes a week to 10 days to get into keto properly and you need to eat way less carbs than you have above, 30 grams max to get into keto then you need to get keto sticks and measure your ketogens - you might be able to go back up in carbs and still stay in keto. You dont have enough fats in your diet, you need then for energy. You can also have some carbs after working out, or you can cycle.

    For what its worth, keto is a pain in the ass unless you absolutely love cheese, nuts and greek yoghurt. You'd be just as well counting your calories and watching carbs in general.

    BTW, you cant just drop off keto, you have to slowly cycle back up to using carbs as a fuel source otherwise you'll just put it all straight back on.

    Question for you, would I loose those last few Pesky Pounds by sticking on the diet I have listed above? And how Long would it take to see some definition in my abs?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 39,902 ✭✭✭✭Mellor


    It takes a week to 10 days to get into keto properly
    Not it doesn't.
    You'll be ion ketosis long before that.
    and you need to eat way less carbs than you have above, 30 grams max to get into keto
    30g will defo see you in ketosis fast.
    Even 50 or 60 will see you hit in a few days.
    BTW, you cant just drop off keto, you have to slowly cycle back up to using carbs as a fuel source otherwise you'll just put it all straight back on.
    Are you saying if you jump back into moderate carbs, you'll put them on as fat?
    You won't.


    If you are talking about something else, you should be more clear.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,515 ✭✭✭tupac_healy


    Mellor wrote: »
    Not it doesn't.
    You'll be ion ketosis long before that.


    30g will defo see you in ketosis fast.
    Even 50 or 60 will see you hit in a few days.


    Are you saying if you jump back into moderate carbs, you'll put them on as fat?
    You won't.


    If you are talking about something else, you should be more clear.

    Now that is a lot more along the lines of the advice I have been given by a friend who is in absolutely fantastic condition!!!

    Anyhow, another update tonight..... whatever it is im doing is working because im now down to 74.6kg.... and according to a weight record (do it in work for the last few years) Ive not.been this light in over 2 years!

    Yet with all the working out and endurance im doing I feel physically stronger than ever before!!!

    Whatever it is im doing is working for me and im happy out, now just 3-4 pounds more around the abs to see some definiton and I will genuinely be happu that I have achieved my goal!


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