Lack of progress in the gym

danielgalway

Hi all,

I'm an 18 year old student .
Been at the gym for a since november.

And havent seen the progress i thought id see
I go like 4-5 times a week
as a general rule of thumb i do 3 exercises , 3 sets per exercise for each muscle group (for chest back etc may do 1 more exercise or just increase sets)

My physique has improved but only slightly, for example I'm still barely able to see my shoulders.

I do eat quite a lot of protein. I aim for 1g p/pound of bodyweight i weigh 160 pounds at the moment. I do take 1 scoop whey protein and half a scoop of dextrose and maltodextrin each, totalling 1 scoop after the gym with water.

Im aware one needs to be in caloric surplus to gain muslce
When i look back at the past few months i think i didnt eat enough food.

But my big question is

Could something so simple as not eating enough calories be the reason for me not putting on a lot of size?

Any help greatly appreciated

danielgalway

And also because of the lack of progress i am wondering am i wasting money on protein?

johnfaul

How much weight did you gain?
To give you an example I also started around November and have put on 10kg.
You have to eat loads..
Also what's your programme?

Zombienosh

You can't out train a bad diet. What has your diet been like?

danielgalway

before i started the gym i was 68kilos now im 73/74kg but my bodyfat has gone from 18 to 20.5% so from that i gather i've gained 2 kilos fat and 3 kilos muscle .

Monday i'd do shoulders only (busy day in college)

dumbell press * 3 sets 8 reps
front raise 3 sets 8 reps/ side raise 3 sets 8 reps (interchange every few weeks)
flys 3 sets 8 reps

Tueday chest tris

flat bench barbell press 3 sets 8 reps
decline dumbell press 3 sets 8 reps
incline dumbell press 3 sets 8 reps (<-- interchange with flys or cable chest press for lower chest)

skull crushers 3 sets 8 reps (<-interchange with close grip bench press)
cable puldown 3 sets 8 reps
overhead extension 3 sets 8 reps (<-interchange with kick back)


Wednesday Back bis

pull ups 3 sets 8 reps
barbell row 3 sets 8 reps
dumbell row 3 sets 8 reps

(i have an injury to my forearm so I cant really do normal curls or hammer curls)

barbell preacher curls 3 sets 10 reps
dumbell preacher curls 3 sets 10 reps
cable bicep curl 3 sets 10 reps

thursday day off

friday legs

im not going to lie , i was very inconsistent when doing legs, some weeks i would do it others i wouldnt

but normally:

leg curl 3 sets 3 sets 8 reps
quad extension machine 3 sets 8 reps
squat smith machine 4 sets 8 reps
calf raise on smith machine 4 sets 8 reps

saturday off
sunday off

Everyday of college i would go to the gym either during it if i had a 2hr break or after college.

My diet
has been pretty good i think

I'd wake up , have a bowl of cereal , a protein shake with 200mls low fat milk

then i'd head into college. I'd bring normally cous cous and chicken in with me nearly everday although some days it would be chicken that has breadcrumbs . days im feeling lazy all i have to do is stick it in the oven :P

anyway now that i look back i would normally only eat one proper meal in college until i came home (aside from the protein shake after the gym)

So in total including the protein shale after the gym that would be 4 meals a day.
I dont think i was eating enough food.
To be honest i didnt think i'd have to eat alot of food. Im a person that puts on weight easily . I have a broad build but wouldnt say im over weight.

Sorry for all the wrinting just want to give as much detail as possible to get the best advice , THanks a million to everyone that helps !

johnfaul

I done pretty much the same split until the new year about 8 weeks total made very little gains.
I researched and found out that a 3day full body split was recommended for beginners.
So I done this and ate 3500 calories per day and made most of my gains this way.
I recently moved to an upper lower split after 5 months on the 3day full body.

RidleyRider

danielgalway wrote: »

before i started the gym i was 68kilos now im 73/74kg but my bodyfat has gone from 18 to 20.5% so from that i gather i've gained 2 kilos fat and 3 kilos muscle .

Monday i'd do shoulders only (busy day in college)

dumbell press * 3 sets 8 reps
front raise 3 sets 8 reps/ side raise 3 sets 8 reps (interchange every few weeks)
flys 3 sets 8 reps

Tueday chest tris

flat bench barbell press 3 sets 8 reps
decline dumbell press 3 sets 8 reps
incline dumbell press 3 sets 8 reps (<-- interchange with flys or cable chest press for lower chest)

skull crushers 3 sets 8 reps (<-interchange with close grip bench press)
cable puldown 3 sets 8 reps
overhead extension 3 sets 8 reps (<-interchange with kick back)


Wednesday Back bis

pull ups 3 sets 8 reps
barbell row 3 sets 8 reps
dumbell row 3 sets 8 reps

(i have an injury to my forearm so I cant really do normal curls or hammer curls)

barbell preacher curls 3 sets 10 reps
dumbell preacher curls 3 sets 10 reps
cable bicep curl 3 sets 10 reps

thursday day off

friday legs

im not going to lie , i was very inconsistent when doing legs, some weeks i would do it others i wouldnt

but normally:

leg curl 3 sets 3 sets 8 reps
quad extension machine 3 sets 8 reps
squat smith machine 4 sets 8 reps
calf raise on smith machine 4 sets 8 reps

saturday off
sunday off

Everyday of college i would go to the gym either during it if i had a 2hr break or after college.

My diet
has been pretty good i think

I'd wake up , have a bowl of cereal , a protein shake with 200mls low fat milk

then i'd head into college. I'd bring normally cous cous and chicken in with me nearly everday although some days it would be chicken that has breadcrumbs . days im feeling lazy all i have to do is stick it in the oven :P

anyway now that i look back i would normally only eat one proper meal in college until i came home (aside from the protein shake after the gym)

So in total including the protein shale after the gym that would be 4 meals a day.
I dont think i was eating enough food.
To be honest i didnt think i'd have to eat alot of food. Im a person that puts on weight easily . I have a broad build but wouldnt say im over weight.

Sorry for all the wrinting just want to give as much detail as possible to get the best advice , THanks a million to everyone that helps !

You have next to no compound movements. Combine compound movements with a clean and healthy diet and you'll start to see results.

TimeToShine

Diet is the most important thing but also your routine isn't great...focus around the 5 main compounds; squat deadlift bench press overhead press and pullups. Do your assistance after you've given these lifts your 100%

LuckyLloyd

'Starting Strength' is designed ideally for people in your position. Run it imo while on a fairly clean caloric surplus and you'll see results. You'd get to be in the gym less than you are presently too!!

Good luck.

PizzamanIRL

danielgalway wrote: »

Could something so simple as not eating enough calories be the reason for me not putting on a lot of size?

To answer this, yes. It's like trying to drive a car without petrol.

qvsr46ofgc792k

from 18-25 I had the same problem as you, however I was ripped and extremely strong. Each time I asked the same question as you and each time I recieved many answers. Often someone would say EAT,EAT, EAT AND EAT SOME MORE when I eventually listened I started bulking up.

We're human, we also overlook advise when it seems too easy.

anway...

EAT,EAT, EAT AND EAT SOME MORE

danielgalway

johnfaul what exactly do you mean by a 3 day split and an upper lower split? Example please?

Time to shine ..how could i improve my routine?
what exercises should i leave out or subsititute for others?
also is my number of sets ok?

LuckyLloyd...is the starting strength programme good for building muscle or just increasing strength... also do i add this to my current routine or does it replace my current routine?

danielgalway

just researched about a 3 day split johnfaul howver what do you mean by an upper lower split?
what was your routine like for the 3 day split?
im wondering is a 3 day split good for building muscle. (I eat around 2800 calories a day)
Im just thinking like is it not as effective because your not isolating each muscle on a separate day?

LuckyLloyd

danielgalway wrote: »

LuckyLloyd...is the starting strength programme good for building muscle or just increasing strength... also do i add this to my current routine or does it replace my current routine?

It is a great method for building strength, and if you do it in conjunction with a caloric surplus you will build size with it too. A good modification I've seen suggested before is to add as many extra reps (if you have them) to the last working set of each exercise.

Basically, you want a structured template that is proven to produce progress. If SS doesn't appeal consider:

http://www.defrancostraining.com/articles/38-articles/65-westside-for-skinny-bastards-part3.html

Either program would be a full replacement for whatever you are currently doing. The WSFSB may appeal as it has specific notes and amendments available if you wish to incorporate cardio training into your weekly cycle.

danielgalway

isnt the rep reange for building muslce 6-12 reps ?
Nearly all exercises say to do 5 reps or 3 reps.. Could i just bump these up to 6 or 8 reps?

danielgalway

any opinions on the All pro beginner simple beginner's workout routine? its a 3 day full body split.

https://www.google.ie/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=2&cad=rja&ved=0CDoQFjAB&url=http%3A%2F%2Fsimplebeginnerroutine.wikia.com%2F&ei=OL_KUbStBM7X7Aa76YGABA&usg=AFQjCNETmuyEv4SlRepnJK1j8DqqIGWVEw&sig2=ppapW-QXcLtALtQhtkrNNg&bvm=bv.48340889,d.ZGU

LuckyLloyd

danielgalway wrote: »

isnt the rep reange for building muslce 6-12 reps ?
Nearly all exercises say to do 5 reps or 3 reps.. Could i just bump these up to 6 or 8 reps?

No, not really. Eating more, sleeping more, gaining strength and allowing for adequate recovery time between sessions will build muscle.

SS and WSFSB are two proven programs for taking young athletes and making them bigger and stronger if the program is followed over an extended period. De Franco provides great choice in exercises to use so that any equipment limitations can be worked around.

Given your goals and current position you are a perfect candidate for either.

That said, best of luck in whatever you choose to do.

thegreatiam

danielgalway wrote: »

isnt the rep reange for building muslce 6-12 reps ?
Nearly all exercises say to do 5 reps or 3 reps.. Could i just bump these up to 6 or 8 reps?

Starting strength is long running and proven. Tested the world over and written by a well respected coach, so is west side.

choose one and follow the instructions.

Starting strength wiki has some good advice
http://startingstrength.wikia.com/wiki/FAQ:The_Program#Stalling.2C_Resetting_and_Progressing

danielgalway

one question....for example in the 2nd ed. workout it says 1x5 deadlift and in workout b 5x3 powerclean.
does this mean 1 set of 5 reps for the deadlift and 5 sets, 3 reps per set of power cleans?

runawaybishop

Yes

danielgalway

i dont really see any exercise for shoulders or biceps/triceps in there?

thegreatiam

bench and overhead press and cleans.

Its all about compound movements not isolation

danielgalway

will starting strength stunt my growth?

thegreatiam

what do you think?

runawaybishop

danielgalway wrote: »

will starting strength stunt my growth?

Nope.

thegreatiam

runawaybishop wrote: »

Nope.

I had a great big speil in mind about fallacys and myths of strength training. but that is pretty much the whole point.

runawaybishop

thegreatiam wrote: »

I had a great big speil in mind about fallacys and myths of strength training. but that is pretty much the whole point.

The less you say the less people can find fault with

thegreatiam

runawaybishop wrote: »

The less you say the less people can find fault with

be a boring forum then tho

danielgalway

right so i think ill change my workout to that so. Does it matter which version i use? was looking at the pratcical programming (2nd Ed) Novice Program?

thegreatiam

danielgalway wrote: »

right so i think ill change my workout to that so. Does it matter which version i use? was looking at the pratcical programming (2nd Ed) Novice Program?

This largely depends on how often you'd like to powerclean, deadlift and do pull-ups. If you want to deadlift and powerclean 1-3x/week and pull-ups aren't a priority (you'll get to add them eventually) do The Original Starting Strength Program. If you'd like to Deadlift, powerclean and do pull-ups about equally, do The Onus Wunsler Beginner Program. If you don't ever want to do powercleans and you only want to deadlift 1x/week, but you'd like to do pull-ups 2x/week do The Practical Programming Novice Program (Note: 2nd Ed now includes powercleans). You will gain extraordinary amounts of strength on any one of these fine programs.

runawaybishop

danielgalway wrote: »

right so i think ill change my workout to that so. Does it matter which version i use? was looking at the pratcical programming (2nd Ed) Novice Program?

It doesn't matter - pick the one you like the look of. As a beginner you probably put on muscle just looking at the different programs.

LuckyLloyd

danielgalway wrote: »

right so i think ill change my workout to that so. Does it matter which version i use? was looking at the pratcical programming (2nd Ed) Novice Program?

If you do go ahead, use your phone to record videos of your sets and watch them with a view to perfecting your form. While the compound lifts are easy to grasp with practice, they have various technical elements that you will want to get on top of from the outset.

You can start a log in the fitness logs section here and put videos there and people are generally kind enough to provide some time with pointers.

danielgalway

the Practical Programming (2nd Ed) Novice Program has only 7 sets to start off so ill be in the gym for less than an hour? is this still ok?

thegreatiam

did you read the wiki yet?

How long does this workout normally take?Edit

As you progress with your development and you get nearer to your genetic capabilities, your training will, by necessity, become more complex and possibly more lengthy. As a result, your workouts will take longer, because you simply have to do "more stuff"

For the first 3 or 4 workouts including warm-ups, as a novice expect about 30 minutes for Workout A and possibly shorter for Workout B. As you get stronger, you will need longer rest periods. As you add weight to those top 3 work sets, you may need an extra set or 2 per exercise for warmups. Eventually (think months) the workouts will last 1 hour - 1 hour and 15 minutes. Workouts shouldn't ever last more than an hour and a half.

However, for you newbs who do the first few workouts and think "damn, that was easy, I was done in half an hour", don't sweat it, the workout is pretty easy...at first. It WILL catch up to you.

LuckyLloyd

danielgalway wrote: »

the Practical Programming (2nd Ed) Novice Program has only 7 sets to start off so ill be in the gym for less than an hour? is this still ok?

Yes, absolutely. As the weights go up and your working sets get heavier you'll be in the gym longer because:

A) you need more warm up sets between an empty bar and your working weight;
you need more rest time between each working set;

Enjoy the shorter sessions over the first couple of weeks imo!

Vomit

Daniel, the main thing with the eating is to listen to your body. As you gain muscle you will naturally get hungrier, and you will eat enough, so don't get too hung up on it yet. As long as you don't ignore those hunger signals from your stomach/body/brain then you'll be ok.

I think I know the problem you have. From reading about your workouts it seems that you stick quite rigidly to 8 reps per set. Throughout any given workout, you should be doing somewhere between 6 and 16 reps, and here's why: Bodybuilding is all about volume and time under tension. You need to try and keep the muscles under constant tension, to wear them out each session. You need to use an amount of weight that lets you do around 16 reps on the first set (before you can't lift any more). The second set should clock in at around 12 reps, the third set, maybe 6 or 8. That's how it works. Of course, these numbers are not exact, but you get the idea. So it's a mistake to pick an arbitrary number of 8 and just stick to it rigidly. You have to experiment a bit. If you can push out 20 reps on the first set, then you are not using enough weight, and equally, if 8 is your max on the first set, then it's too heavy.

Don't give up- your body will respond over time. And eating healthy food is best, and will becomes habit after 30 days. Don't overeat, just give it time.

Stay away from the scales, because your weight will fluctuate or even stay the same. Body composition is what matters most in the first year. I know it sounds vain, but take some before and after pictures of yourself if you really want to measure progress.

danielgalway

And any opinion on how long i should do this for considering ive been in the gym since november? all be it with little results...


Also when i do change my routine in the future, after doing starting strength for a while, what sort of routine should i change to?
is my current routine an option to change to in the future? like doing 2 muslce groups in each gym session?
Would appreciate if someone could give me an example of a routine that i could change to in the future.

Thanks a million to everyone thats helping me out much appreciated!

thegreatiam

danielgalway wrote: »

And any opinion on how long i should do this for considering ive been in the gym since november? all be it with little results...


Also when i do change my routine in the future, after doing starting strength for a while, what sort of routine should i change to?
is my current routine an option to change to in the future? like doing 2 muslce groups in each gym session?
Would appreciate if someone could give me an example of a routine that i could change to in the future.

Thanks a million to everyone thats helping me out much appreciated!

read the wiki, it has a FAQ