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The Labour Party

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  • 19-06-2013 11:06pm
    #1
    newman10
    Registered Users Posts: 975 ✭✭✭


    Where stands the Labour Party today.

    Has the Social of Socialism been replaced by the Capital of Capitalism thus depriving the marginalized of a voice

    Any thoughts


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    #2
    laoch na mona
    Registered Users Posts: 2,965 ✭✭✭laoch na mona


    haven't been socialist in a long time they have been sucked into the centre like all social democrat parties. they still have a bit of union backing but its more well paid public sector union workers. I know several labour voters who now view sinn fein as the party representing their interests


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    #3
    oscarBravo
    Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 28,792 Mod ✭✭✭✭oscarBravo


    laoch na mona wrote: »
    ...they have been sucked into the centre like all social democrat parties.
    Why do you suppose that is?


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    #4
    laoch na mona
    Registered Users Posts: 2,965 ✭✭✭laoch na mona


    oscarBravo wrote: »
    Why do you suppose that is?

    more interested in power then actually making society better


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    #5
    oscarBravo
    Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 28,792 Mod ✭✭✭✭oscarBravo


    laoch na mona wrote: »
    more interested in power then actually making society better
    How do you make society better without being in power?


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    #6
    Banjo String
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,380 ✭✭✭✭Banjo String


    Eamon Gilmore thinks its reasonable to cut the budget for special needs students by 10% incredible but his own words ........


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    #7
    Sir Humphrey Appleby
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,465 ✭✭✭Sir Humphrey Appleby


    Anyone who believes that the Labour Party represents anyone other than the overpaid public service is deluded.
    The Labour Party is more right wing than either FG or FF.
    Personally I could never contemplate voting for any party controlled and led by former Official IRA figures.


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    #8
    COYW
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,930 ✭✭✭COYW


    laoch na mona wrote: »
    more interested in power then actually making society better

    Well they can't achieve too much in opposition can then? Unless you are including waffling populist nonsense from the opposition benches as an achievement.
    laoch na mona wrote: »
    haven't been socialist in a long time they have been sucked into the centre like all social democrat parties. they still have a bit of union backing but its more well paid public sector union workers. I know several labour voters who now view sinn fein as the party representing their interests

    Can you elaborate on this? Personally, I think they would throw money blindly at everything, if we had it. Just to clarify, by 'throw money' I mean waste without regard, just like the socialist administrations did during the Celtic tiger years. Labour looked great in opposition, just like any decent party does. Looking good in power is a completely different and far more challenging ball game. They will get slaughtered in the next election; like we all said, in the exact same manner as all the other small parties.


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    #9
    View
    Registered Users Posts: 3,872 ✭✭✭View


    COYW wrote: »
    Just to clarify, by 'throw money' I mean waste without regard, just like the socialist administrations did during the Celtic tiger years.

    You are confusing stupidity with socialism.

    "Socialists" - by which I mean mainstream EU Socialists - have to be just as strict about waste in public spending as anyother political party. Public services cost money to run and more waste means less services they can provide for the public.


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    #10
    Le_Dieux
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,473 ✭✭✭Le_Dieux


    For me, there is nothing wrong with the LP. It's the gobsh*te who leads them is the problem. He is walking around with his head on another planet, and cannot see just what is going on around him or how he is DESTROYING what was once a Party representing the PEOPLE.

    Penrose, Shortall ( whom he stabbed in the back), Brougham, Keaveney ( whom he has done his damndest to get rid of), and now Nulty, along with ( I don't know how many) councillors have deserted what can only be described as a shinking ship, then lied through your teeth trying to claim victory during the past week on bedget agreements. You, Gilmore, are an absolute disgrace to a) the human race, & b) ANY Labour movement.

    PLEASE get the hell out before You have the public categorising the LP in the same bed as the PD's & the Greens.


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    #11
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    Le_Dieux wrote: »
    For me, there is nothing wrong with the LP. It's the gobsh*te who leads them is the problem. He is walking around with his head on another planet, and cannot see just what is going on around him or how he is DESTROYING what was once a Party representing the PEOPLE.

    Penrose, Shortall ( whom he stabbed in the back), Brougham, Keaveney ( whom he has done his damndest to get rid of), and now Nulty, along with ( I don't know how many) councillors have deserted what can only be described as a shinking ship, then lied through your teeth trying to claim victory during the past week on bedget agreements. You, Gilmore, are an absolute disgrace to a) the human race, & b) ANY Labour movement.

    PLEASE get the hell out before You have the public categorising the LP in the same bed as the PD's & the Greens.

    He's not doing anything Rabbite or any of his predecessors wouldn't have done. Think back to the Dicky Spring turnaround.


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    #12
    dar926
    Registered Users Posts: 156 ✭✭dar926


    Never Thought I would see the day when Down Syndrome Kids would have to be holding placards outside the gates of Leinster house... that's what Labour have achieved in government plain and simple.. Its disgusting.


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    #13
    Le_Dieux
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,473 ✭✭✭Le_Dieux


    Nodin wrote: »
    He's not doing anything Rabbite or any of his predecessors wouldn't have done. Think back to the Dicky Spring turnaround.

    Totally agree, but givememore has put a whole new complexion to the term 'turncoat' He lost total concept to everything attributed with Labour. How ANY man can stab a fellow party member in the back for a bearded liar in another political party is beyond me. And thwen drive up to Ballyfermott in a big BMW in the worst economic downturn in the history of this State to attend some ceremony for UNICEF ( I think).

    He has TOTALLY lost the plot altogether.


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    #14
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    Le_Dieux wrote: »
    Totally agree, but givememore has put a whole new complexion to the term 'turncoat' He lost total concept to everything attributed with Labour. How ANY man can stab a fellow party member in the back for a bearded liar in another political party is beyond me. And thwen drive up to Ballyfermott in a big BMW in the worst economic downturn in the history of this State to attend some ceremony for UNICEF ( I think).

    He has TOTALLY lost the plot altogether.


    ...again, he's not doing anything new. Perhaps the difference lies in the way he (and Rabbite) talked in far more left wing terms than many previous leaders, thus giving false hope. Certainly there were times when I almost cast aside the usual cynicism with regards the party myself.


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    #15
    hyperborean
    Closed Accounts Posts: 655 ✭✭✭hyperborean


    Most of the votes labour received in the last election were FF voters, once they are returned to the mother ship it might look like devastating but its only equilibrium returning to civil war political sides, FG will again become little brother and the real gangsters will be back in power, maybe even the northy crowd will be stupid enough to try for power with FF, that would make me happy, they would be destroyed.


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    #16
    Le_Dieux
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,473 ✭✭✭Le_Dieux


    Having always voted for Labour, I am distraught at what that piece of self-centred excuse for a human is doing to the Party. I was googling around and came across this, which I find very interesting to say the least:

    http://seamusryan.blogspot.ie/2013/03/labour-party-time-for-change.html

    Purely guesswork here, but I can't see that piece of slime named gilmore being around much longer. Of course that doesn't detract from the fact he still has his damn pension:mad:


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    #17
    boundlessSea
    Registered Users Posts: 26 ✭boundlessSea


    Eamon Gilmore is not a very good leader but changing him would not achieve much on its own. Labour is supposed to be concerned for primarily the working class but its biggest priority seems to be in maintaining the pay of middle class public sector workers which seems to be of more importance than reducing unemployment.

    They have not done enough in government to reduce inequality, the main positive thing they done is to help reduce the unmaintainable budget deficit.


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    #18
    Zubeneschamali
    Registered Users Posts: 16,686 ✭✭✭✭Zubeneschamali


    Le_Dieux wrote: »
    Having always voted for Labour, I am distraught at what that piece of self-centred excuse for a human is doing to the Party.

    In 1977, the Labour party got a pasting after a period in Coalition with FG, and the party split, with the people opposed to getting in bed with FG forming the Socialist Labour Party.

    The Socialist Labour Party itself lasted 5 years, during which it split 3 times.

    Nothing is happening in Labour that hasn't happened every 10 years or so, whenever they enter Government.


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    #19
    daithicarr
    Registered Users Posts: 425 ✭✭daithicarr


    dar926 wrote: »
    Never Thought I would see the day when Down Syndrome Kids would have to be holding placards outside the gates of Leinster house... that's what Labour have achieved in government plain and simple.. Its disgusting.


    Thats just stupid as if its just Labour making that call. its What FG/LB have achieved. With FF's mess.

    Breaks your heart to think so many people get angry with one bunch of idiots and run back to the last bunch. Thats going to change things for the better.

    sigh


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    #20
    dar926
    Registered Users Posts: 156 ✭✭dar926


    Oh i agree with you.. it is what FG/LB have achieved...100 per cent.. But this business of blaming FF for everything is far past the point now... they had a clean slate and a opportunity to change how things are done.. but they just continued on where FF left off... and now things are far worse than we ever imagined...Seriously own it.. Its not FFs mess its F***ing YOURS!


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    #21
    Zubeneschamali
    Registered Users Posts: 16,686 ✭✭✭✭Zubeneschamali


    dar926 wrote: »
    But this business of blaming FF for everything is far past the point now... they had a clean slate

    A clean slate? Do you even know what a deficit is?


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    #22
    dar926
    Registered Users Posts: 156 ✭✭dar926


    They may have had the deficit but they had plenty of ideas on how to deal with it before the election... Enda Kenny said himself he was wiping the slate clean and starting a fresh chapter in Irish Politics.. His words not mine... he made plenty of promises and statements before the election so blaming FF doesnt stand up any more...


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    #23
    Zubeneschamali
    Registered Users Posts: 16,686 ✭✭✭✭Zubeneschamali


    dar926 wrote: »
    They may have had the deficit but they had plenty of ideas on how to deal with it before the election...

    Yes, tax hikes (Labour) and spending cuts (FG).

    And things are not far worse than we imagined. The bailout has more-or-less worked, and we'll be exiting the Troika program on time. After FF destroyed the countries economic independence and called in the IMF, I'd say we're in a far, far better position than anyone who saw Cowen crash us into a ditch could have hoped.


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    #24
    dar926
    Registered Users Posts: 156 ✭✭dar926


    Well I know I'm not in a far better position... or anybody I know.. Far worse cuts in every sector both FG and Labour promised to protect.. We might be exiting the Troika but at what expense, All FG has done is bankrupted the taxpayer.. And if I remember correctly thats the plan FF had from the start.. Again Where is the new chapter in Irish politics because I certainly haven't seen it, just a continuation Of a Fianna Fail agenda on the Irish taxpayer... At least FF had the decency to smile as they slit our throats!


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    #25
    Zubeneschamali
    Registered Users Posts: 16,686 ✭✭✭✭Zubeneschamali


    dar926 wrote: »
    Far worse cuts in every sector both FG and Labour promised to protect.

    Name one sector hit by far worse cuts than indicated in the programme for government.


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    #26
    Banjo String
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,380 ✭✭✭✭Banjo String


    Zubeneschamali wrote: »
    Name one sector hit by far worse cuts than indicated in the programme for government.

    Homeowners.


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    #27
    bumper234
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,250 ✭✭✭✭bumper234


    Le_Dieux wrote: »
    For me, there is nothing wrong with the LP. It's the gobsh*te who leads them is the problem. He is walking around with his head on another planet, and cannot see just what is going on around him or how he is DESTROYING what was once a Party representing the PEOPLE.

    Penrose, Shortall ( whom he stabbed in the back), Brougham, Keaveney ( whom he has done his damndest to get rid of), and now Nulty, along with ( I don't know how many) councillors have deserted what can only be described as a shinking ship, then lied through your teeth trying to claim victory during the past week on bedget agreements. You, Gilmore, are an absolute disgrace to a) the human race, & b) ANY Labour movement.

    PLEASE get the hell out before You have the public categorising the LP in the same bed as the PD's & the Greens.

    I think it's too late for that.


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    #28
    Zubeneschamali
    Registered Users Posts: 16,686 ✭✭✭✭Zubeneschamali


    SamHall wrote: »
    Homeowners.

    What about them?


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    #29
    Godge
    Closed Accounts Posts: 21,727 ✭✭✭✭Godge


    Zubeneschamali wrote: »
    Name one sector hit by far worse cuts than indicated in the programme for government.


    The public service. The government promised no more pay cuts and broke that promise.


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    #30
    Zubeneschamali
    Registered Users Posts: 16,686 ✭✭✭✭Zubeneschamali


    Godge wrote: »
    The public service. The government promised no more pay cuts and broke that promise.

    I just looked through the programme for government again, and I don't see that promise.

    Looking at the two progress reports, there's nothing there about any such commitment, either.

    What they promised to do was reform the public service and deliver savings and value.


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    #31
    creedp
    Registered Users Posts: 5,644 ✭✭✭creedp


    Zubeneschamali wrote: »
    I just looked through the programme for government again, and I don't see that promise.

    Looking at the two progress reports, there's nothing there about any such commitment, either.

    What they promised to do was reform the public service and deliver savings and value.


    No they simply unilaterally reneged on an Agreement not to introduce further pay cuts until mid-2014.
    Eamon Gilmore is not a very good leader but changing him would not achieve much on its own. Labour is supposed to be concerned for primarily the working class but its biggest priority seems to be in maintaining the pay of middle class public sector workers which seems to be of more importance than reducing unemployment.

    Which is it though .. on the one hand we get the above, i.e. Labour protecting the public sector worker above all while on the other hand Labour introduce further pay cut and reductions in terms and conditions for PS workers. Given the so-called priority of protecting PS workers above all other sectors can we now expect a raft of tax increases for the real workers and SW reductions to bring the system back into equilibrium?


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