Fine Gael TD Brian Walsh will not support abortion bill; political suicide?

Cerco

John O'Mahony changed his mind because he (finally) discovered that the people voted "yes" in the referendum. RTE news @6pm.

Michelle Mulherin will vote yes because otherwise she iould be chucked out of Fine Gael.

Staying on the gravy train is more important to them than their declared conscience.

ethical

ethical wrote: »

Politicians that stand on their own two feet must be admired!

Absolutely. Always nice to see one lamb, break from the flock.

I despise political parties. Throwing a member out, for having an alternative perspective? Total bollocks.

Banjo String

Cerco wrote: »

Michelle Mulherin will vote yes because otherwise she iould be chucked out of Fine Gael.

Bible bashing nut job when it suits, but when it comes down to her party or principles, Michelle has proved that she's only 'good living' for a living.

Dropping moral principles and beliefs in favour of a hefty salary and expense system seems to be the way forward for the FG party.

InchicoreDude

Cerco wrote: »

John O'Mahony changed his mind because he (finally) discovered that the people voted "yes" in the referendum. RTE news @6pm.

Michelle Mulherin will vote yes because otherwise she iould be chucked out of Fine Gael.

Staying on the gravy train is more important to them than their declared conscience.

In fairness, the referendum result is a perfectly valid reason for a TD to vote for the bill.

But Mulherin's openly admitting she is voting Yes as otherwise she will be kicked out is political suicide!

There was an interesting article in one of Sunday papers lat weekend where it suggested that when you have the likes of Keaveney, Shorthall & Creighton 'ousted' from their parties, that there is a very big opportunity for a new party to be formed.

hmmm

We shouldn't elect politicians purely as transcribers of public opinion, we should expect them to be able to think for themselves. If they feel strongly enough about something, it's right that they should oppose their party (and possibly their own constituents).

The risk they face is they don't get voted back in - and in Lucinda's case, I'm sure the people of what is the probably the most liberal constituency in Ireland may be a bit shocked to find out what her views on these sort of issues are. Across the world it's become clear that the generations that are in their teens, 20s and 30s are strongly weighted towards social liberalism and fiscal conservatism, and I think as a young(ish) politician you're going to find life hard if that's not your position.

Fine Gael as a party are also in a spot of bother, with a social liberal and conservative wing roughly matched. However I think they're best placed of all the major parties to capture this new vote, if they can figure out what they want to be.

questionmark?

Regardless of your views on abortion a T.D. has decided to vote with his conscience and I say kudos to him even if it is the end of his career. I would say the same if he was voting in favour of it if his party said not too.

Brussels Sprout

hmmm wrote: »

Across the world it's become clear that the generations that are in their teens, 20s and 30s are strongly weighted towards social liberalism and fiscal conservatism,

really? I know it's like that on here but generally young people seem to be liberal on fiscal issues as well (until round about time that they start earning their own money and paying taxes and realise the'll have to pay for all the hand-outs themselves)

Cerco wrote: »

Michelle Mulherin will vote yes because otherwise she iould be chucked out of Fine Gael.

As the 4th FG TD in the Mayo constituency surely she had absolutely nothing to lose by breaking ranks. So not only is she gutless but she's politically naive to boot.

ethical

Herd TD Mulherin on the radio today,in one sense she was honest in saying that the reason she sided with the Whip was that she was afraid she'd loose her 'nice Dáil package.The interviewer gave her a hard time.Yet he generally goes softly,softly with TD O'Mahony on such issues. Mulherin took the flack for O'Mahony.If he was really honest he would tell the people the real reason that he sided with the Whip (and against his own beliefs) was due to the fact that his DáIL package and possibility of going to Europe (if they could get Jim Higgins to retire) was gone for ever more.Listening on line (and far away!) to the local Midwest Radio station,TD O'Mahony would seem to get more than a fair crack of the whip any time he wishes to say something.....perhaps its because of the GAA connection,yet the same radio station is part funded by the Catholic church!!! Wonder what they make of him siding with the Whip and against his beliefs?

hatrickpatrick

F*ck party whips. Whips should be left in the bedroom where they belong. :pac:

Cerco

InchicoreDude wrote: »

In fairness, the referendum result is a perfectly valid reason for a TD to vote for the bill.

But Mulherin's openly admitting she is voting Yes as otherwise she will be kicked out is political suicide!

There was an interesting article in one of Sunday papers lat weekend where it suggested that when you have the likes of Keaveney, Shorthall & Creighton 'ousted' from their parties, that there is a very big opportunity for a new party to be formed.

I agree. However is it unreasonable to expect our TDs to be familiar with the referendum result (2002)? O'Mahony supposedly just became aware in the last few days. Hence his change of mind.
No point in commenting further on Mulherin.
On the new part issue Icannot see how they would fund it. Neither do I see a common policy between those candidates.

Sand

Looks like Creighton has fallen on her sword. She's my local TD and I would admire her principled stance, only I cant help but think that if she was willing to take a hit to represent her principles on this issue then it implies that she fully agreed and supported the government policy up until this point. So she wont be getting even a transfer from me next time around.

It's irritating that this talk about free votes and TDs having to have the ability to be responsible to their own conscience only becomes audible when it comes to an issue relating to old school Catholicism. I didn't see Creighton get all that bothered about some more troubling government measures, but a vaguely coherent response to the X case is her red line issue apparently. I'm fully in favour of abolishing the party whip in the Dail but I'm disgusted by the likes of Creighton who will happily fall into line on all issues unless the Catholic church is offended. Good riddance.

EDIT: Looks like I wont have to worry. Apparently Creighton was warned by the members of her local organisation in the constituency earlier this week that they will not support her in another election if she voted against the X case bill. That should essentially be the end of her career as a political representative of the Catholic Church.

nice_guy80

Sand wrote: »

Looks like Creighton has fallen on her sword. She's my local TD and I would admire her principled stance, only I cant help but think that if she was willing to take a hit to represent her principles on this issue then it implies that she fully agreed and supported the government policy up until this point. So she wont be getting even a transfer from me next time around.

It's irritating that this talk about free votes and TDs having to have the ability to be responsible to their own conscience only becomes audible when it comes to an issue relating to old school Catholicism. I didn't see Creighton get all that bothered about some more troubling government measures, but a vaguely coherent response to the X case is her red line issue apparently. I'm fully in favour of abolishing the party whip in the Dail but I'm disgusted by the likes of Creighton who will happily fall into line on all issues unless the Catholic church is offended. Good riddance.

EDIT: Looks like I wont have to worry. Apparently Creighton was warned by the members of her local organisation in the constituency earlier this week that they will not support her in another election if she voted against the X case bill. That should essentially be the end of her career as a political representative of the Catholic Church.

religion should never come into it

we're meant to be a secular state.

if she was principled, she'd have voted no because the legislation was faulty. nothing to do with moral or religious beliefs.

EDIt: actually delighted to see her gone as a junior minister

jhegarty

Didn't she only vote against Amendment 56 and not the rest of bill ?

bmaxi

Good riddance to Creighton, another grandstanding publicity seeker. I'd say her next step will to form her own party, where hopefully she'll be joined by similarly minded religious political dinosaurs, it'll make ticking the ignore box that much easier at the next election.

nuac

Brussels Sprout wrote: »

re?


As the 4th FG TD in the Mayo constituency surely she had absolutely nothing to lose by breaking ranks. So not only is she gutless but she's politically naive to boot.

I live in Mayo.

If MM left FG she would lose quite a lot of votes. A local councillor who polls well would get the FG nomination in the area,

She would have no help from other FG councillors, organisation, or activists. Would have to do her own posters and advertising.

I don't think there are enough pro-life voters to make up what she would lose.

If she wanted to stay in politics, she had no option.

Surprised that FG did no allow a free vote or agree some of the amendments requested.

Under orders from the smaller party, Labour?

ethical

Did FG really want Mulherin,if what my colleague in the West tells me is true, didn't the Enda canvas for O'Mahony in the election previous to the last one .......in part of Mulherin homeland!!!she lost out then and O'Mahony and GAA got elected,our Taoiseach is a bit star struck(meeting the queen,Obama,Clinton,cycling around his newly adopted home ,Kerry, etc.) and thought TD O'Mahony would deliver the SAM MAGUIRE as well as the seat,thanks to the GAA the seat was delivered..........and Mayo GAA lost SAM due to the treatment of previous management team of Moran and Morrison and dare I say the mal treatment of the best gaelic footballer in Ireland at the time,Ciarán McDonald.Sometimes it makes my blood boil to see what shenanigans are happening back in the old sod.