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Fine Gael TD Brian Walsh will not support abortion bill; political suicide?

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  • 19-06-2013 3:20pm
    #1
    kennryyr
    Registered Users Posts: 69 ✭✭


    Fine Gael TD Brian Walsh has said he will go against his party wishes and will not support the abortion bill as it passes through the Dail.

    This will effectively end his political career and he has mentioned that another 10 Fine Gael TD's might follow in his footsteps.

    Thoughts?

    http://www.rte.ie/news/2013/0619/457515-abortion-legislation/


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    #2
    TheSB
    Closed Accounts Posts: 31 ✭TheSB


    Meanwhile 5,000 young women are being forced to go abroad to seek a termination. These religious nutjobs can go and fock off.


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    #3
    Manach
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 9,676 Mod ✭✭✭✭Manach


    A brave person and a rare politician who is willing to stand on principle in defence of the life of the unborn.


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    #4
    golfball37
    Registered Users Posts: 4,569 ✭✭✭golfball37


    Manach wrote: »
    A brave person and a rare politician who is willing to stand on principle in defence of the life of the unborn.

    More like someone who knows John O'Mahony will be in his constituency next time around so he has to do something.


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    #5
    charlemont
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,725 ✭✭✭charlemont


    Manach wrote: »
    A brave person and a rare politician who is willing to stand on principle in defence of the life of the unborn.

    Nothing brave about denying people medical help if necessary.


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    #6
    XxMCRxBabyxX
    Moderators, Education Moderators Posts: 7,439 Mod ✭✭✭✭XxMCRxBabyxX


    kennryyr wrote: »
    Fine Gael TD Brian Walsh has said he will go against his party wishes and will not support the abortion bill as it passes through the Dail.

    This will effectively end his political career and he has mentioned that another 10 Fine Gael TD's might follow in his footsteps.

    Thoughts?

    http://www.rte.ie/news/2013/0619/457515-abortion-legislation/

    While I don't agree with his stance at all I do have to respect him for standing up against his party for his beliefs. It is a brave decision for himself and hid career. I just have to hope that too many don't follow him either.

    If this was the other way round and he was fighting against an "anti-abortion" bill we would all be supporting him.


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    #7
    Robbo
    Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 10,560 Mod ✭✭✭✭Robbo


    If I were more cynical, I'd note that given FG drops in the polls and that the selection process bloodbath that's likely to ensue in Galway-West when Mayo South is rolled into it, it's never been a better time to seek expulsion from the party on a matter of principle...


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    #8
    kennryyr
    Registered Users Posts: 69 ✭✭kennryyr


    I find it quite odd that he would be willing to end his career in politics over something that can potentially save the lives of mothers.

    Whatever his religious beliefs may be, it is a matter of principle that he as an elected representative of the people, would be willing to give up all that he has worked for throughout the years over this simple bill.

    As many in Ireland have been outspoken in the belief that this bill will open the floodgates for "abortion on demand", it is astonishing that he would go against his parties wishes and is seemingly supporting this absurd notion.


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    #9
    BobTheNihilist
    Registered Users Posts: 14 ✭BobTheNihilist


    He's looking for the Granny/Grandad vote, and he'll get it, because theyre the age that vote the most. I serioulsy doubt he gives a toss about abortions or lack thereof, and he's just grandstanding to be seen to be doing something. His thoughts are on his political future and not the future of any zygote/foetus or whatever.

    sooner we have full UK style abortion on demand in Ireland the better. its not the 1950s anymore. If you dont want an abortion dont have one.


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    #10
    goose2005
    Registered Users Posts: 4,798 ✭✭✭goose2005


    What's the point in having a "political career" if you never express any opinion, just keep your head down for decades in the hope that you might drift to the top, and then once you find yourself there you realise you have no idea what to do? (cf. Enda Kenny)

    And it's pretty pathetic that merely opposing one bill, in a coalition with an 70-vote majority in the Dail, is enough to brand someone a dangerous rebel.

    (i'm pro-choice and Walsh is a moron, but that doesn't change that our parliament is badly broken)


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    #11
    Bobby42
    Registered Users Posts: 1,312 ✭✭✭Bobby42


    Manach wrote: »
    A brave person and a rare politician who is willing to stand on principle in defence of the life of the unborn.


    He's not really defending the life of the unborn though. If he really wanted to do that he'd have to advocate for the removal of pregnant women's right to travel.


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    #12
    Mr.Micro
    Registered Users Posts: 5,336 ✭✭✭Mr.Micro


    Its the prerogative of Brain Walsh to vote on what he believes to be right with regards to the bill. The proposed bill is a step in the right direction, to at least have some clarification with regard to the law, for medics and above all the women who are affected.


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    #13
    ShooterSF
    Registered Users Posts: 8,824 ✭✭✭ShooterSF


    If he is unable to do his job and legislate as our constitution requires him to, especially a part of the constitution that has been kept in place by the public in 2 referendums, then he should resign as a TD. Our democracy is built on the idea that we elect people with some power and that they in turn answer to our constitution. If they can't do such a job they shouldn't be a TD.


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    #14
    InchicoreDude
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,443 ✭✭✭InchicoreDude


    ShooterSF wrote: »
    If he is unable to do his job and legislate as our constitution requires him to, especially a part of the constitution that has been kept in place by the public in 2 referendums, then he should resign as a TD. Our democracy is built on the idea that we elect people with some power and that they in turn answer to our constitution. If they can't do such a job they shouldn't be a TD.

    But doesnt the bill also include a part that has been rejected in referendums? The suicide part or am I getting confused with it. So many flipping abortion information, it is difficult to keep up.

    ****

    To be honest, I am well fed up of hearing all these extremist views on abortion. One crowd calling the other murderers. Such extreme views are rarely ever productive views.

    I think this should be a free vote. The reason I think it should be a free vote is that very few TDs would have joined their party due to that party's stance on abortion. It is a very personal opinion. The only reason that a free vote is not being allowed is because the government are terrified they will not pass the bill. And if they do not pass it, then all their claims about being the government who will legislate for the X case will turn out to be false. However, is it really correct that a bill is passed when there is a fear amongst some of the government TDs that they have to vote in the way their leader tells them? That is actually threading very very closely to a dictatorship. This differs to other issues like property tax etc. because they are typical political issues, this is not.

    If I was a TD, I think I would vote to pass the bill (from what I know of it and I havent read it in detail). But I can absolutely understand why some TDs want to go against their party on this.


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    #15
    TheSB
    Closed Accounts Posts: 31 ✭TheSB


    InchicoreDude wrote: »
    But doesnt the bill also include a part that has been rejected in referendums? The suicide part or am I getting confused with it. So many flipping abortion information, it is difficult to keep up.

    The proposed 25th Amendment to Constitution would have restricted abortion on the grounds of suicide but it was rejected by the people in 2002.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twenty-fifth_Amendment_of_the_Constitution_Bill,_2002_(Ireland)

    I think there has been too many referendums on this issue that the consitution is in a utter mess.


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    #16
    hfallada
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,180 ✭✭✭hfallada


    Isnt the point of a TD to represent the people he elected and no his own personal values? With a majority of people in favour, I dont know what he wants to achieve other than free publicity.

    The legalisation wont allow on demand abortion but it doesnt make a difference as if a person wants an abortion. It is only 40 mins away on a flight


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    #17
    TheSB
    Closed Accounts Posts: 31 ✭TheSB


    hfallada wrote: »
    Isnt the point of a TD to represent the people he elected and no his own personal values? With a majority of people in favour, I dont know what he wants to achieve other than free publicity.

    No TD's should not legislate based on opinion polls, all that we would have then is mob rule and anarchy. People in his constituency should just remember this decision and vote accordingly in the next election.


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    #18
    InchicoreDude
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,443 ✭✭✭InchicoreDude


    hfallada wrote: »
    Isnt the point of a TD to represent the people he elected and no his own personal values? With a majority of people in favour, I dont know what he wants to achieve other than free publicity.

    The legalisation wont allow on demand abortion but it doesnt make a difference as if a person wants an abortion. It is only 40 mins away on a flight

    But how do you know that the majority of people in his consituency favour the legislation???? They may not. The only way to determine that is to have a referendum.

    Also, at the time of the last election, I dont think abortion was such a big election issue. What any politician / party asked about their stance on abortion in the run up to the last election?

    It is an issue now because of the Savitha case.


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    #19
    hfallada
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,180 ✭✭✭hfallada


    InchicoreDude wrote: »
    But how do you know that the majority of people in his consituency favour the legislation???? They may not. The only way to determine that is to have a referendum.

    Also, at the time of the last election, I dont think abortion was such a big election issue. What any politician / party asked about their stance on abortion in the run up to the last election?

    It is an issue now because of the Savitha case.

    Irish times said about 80% of Irish people support it. So you can imagine a majority support it. We have already had a referendum and legalisation is putting what people voted for into law.

    Why do other people care about whether someone else whats an abortion. Its not a decision that is taken lightly. Unless your in the position that there is a risk of you dying from the pregnancy I dont think people should decide what others can or cant do.


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    #20
    bmaxi
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,859 ✭✭✭bmaxi


    The people have had their say on the abortion issue and that should be an end to it. TDs have a duty to legislate, while they are free to have their own personal opinions or religious beliefs, they had the same opportunity as the rest of us to register them at the referendum.


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    #21
    Robbo
    Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 10,560 Mod ✭✭✭✭Robbo


    It's been speculated in the local papers that FG will move John O'Mahoney to the rejigged Galway West next time out. With Sean Kyne comanding a sizeable Connemara vote, it's entirely possible that Walsh sees the only means of survival as going independent and duking it out for the city vote. Splitting from the government line on abortion is an ideal way to put some distance between himself and Nolan.


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    #22
    nuac
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 6,769 Mod ✭✭✭✭nuac


    Robbo wrote: »
    It's been speculated in the local papers that FG will move John O'Mahoney to the rejigged Galway West next time out. With Sean Kyne comanding a sizeable Connemara vote, it's entirely possible that Walsh sees the only means of survival as going independent and duking it out for the city vote. Splitting from the government line on abortion is an ideal way to put some distance between himself and Nolan.

    Lots of pros and cons there for O'Mahoney to consider.

    The number of voters moving from Mayo is about 6000.

    O'Cuiv at Clonbur is right on the edge of the new area. O'Mahoney is a long way away at B'hadreen. He would have to compete against Kyne for those votes, and prise other former FG voters in present WG area away from Kyne and Walsh


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    #23
    Red Kev
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,795 ✭✭✭Red Kev


    I reckon most of those who vote against the bill, if they are expelled, will be quietly readmitted to the party before the next election.


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    #24
    nesf
    Registered Users Posts: 27,645 ✭✭✭✭nesf


    There really is nothing wrong with him doing this if he strongly disagrees with it. If his voters disagree strongly with him doing this they'll take care of him next election. If they return him they obviously agree with him or don't feel strongly on the issue.

    Personally I'm very happy if they vote against, it gives me a short list of people never to vote for again and I'm sure there are other people who are doing the same with people who will vote for it.


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    #25
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    InchicoreDude wrote: »
    But doesnt the bill also include a part that has been rejected in referendums? The suicide part or am I getting confused with it. So many flipping abortion information, it is difficult to keep up.
    ...........

    Two attempts via referenda were made to remove suicide as grounds for abortion - one in 1992 and the other in 2002. Both were rejected. Given that, the whole 'free vote' thing becomes a murky issue. In addition and more generally, its a bit much to expect strict adherence to the whip to be dropped in the middle of a term, given the vast shift that would indicate in political culture. Personally I'd favour a freedom of conscience clause, but it would have to be an election issue, and weighed against the right of the electorate to have their votes acted upon.


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    #26
    kabakuyu
    Registered Users Posts: 1,151 ✭✭✭kabakuyu


    Well,Galway West might be better off when Brian and Fidelma are gone.


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    #27
    OCorcrainn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 428 ✭✭OCorcrainn


    charlemont wrote: »
    Nothing brave about denying people medical help if necessary.

    So abortions are medical treatments now and anyone who disagrees is just a religious nutjob who should not be listened to?

    So tell me,since you say abortion is a medical treatment, what does it treat?


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    #28
    OCorcrainn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 428 ✭✭OCorcrainn


    Mr.Micro wrote: »
    Its the prerogative of Brain Walsh to vote on what he believes to be right with regards to the bill. The proposed bill is a step in the right direction, to at least have some clarification with regard to the law, for medics and above all the women who are affected.

    So having a bill that allows for abortion all the way to the end of term is a step in the right direction?


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    #29
    nesf
    Registered Users Posts: 27,645 ✭✭✭✭nesf


    OCorcrainn wrote: »
    So abortions are medical treatments now and anyone who disagrees is just a religious nutjob who should not be listened to?

    So tell me,since you say abortion is a medical treatment, what does it treat?
    OCorcrainn wrote: »
    So having a bill that allows for abortion all the way to the end of term is a step in the right direction?

    Hey, if we could keep this a thread about the ramifications of going against the whip on this issue for a politician that'd be great. Having it turn into yet another rehash of the debate on the Bill is really not interesting, we already have that going on in several threads. I agree with the issue being raised, this isn't the place for it here.


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    #30
    Mr.Micro
    Registered Users Posts: 5,336 ✭✭✭Mr.Micro


    OCorcrainn wrote: »
    So having a bill that allows for abortion all the way to the end of term is a step in the right direction?

    Yes, a step in the right direction with regards to the law. Whether one agrees with it or not is a moral issue.


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    #31
    ethical
    Registered Users Posts: 720 ✭✭✭ethical


    Politicians that stand on their own two feet must be admired!,whither you agree with their stance or not.I note from this evenings news that a number of the so called 'no' side on the Government benches have changed their mind (and possible beliefs as well!).In the case of one of the politicians to vote 'no' would mean the end of a political career and a tilt at Europe.......One needs to seriously look at this particular TD and really see who does he really represent ,his constituency or his own pocket? The answer,considering the same TDs stance on the abortion issue, has to be his own pocket,money,money and more money!


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