if you were building a commuter bike...

Raam

Lumen wrote: »

I fail to see how a bent piece of metal is better looking than my glorious anodized chainring bolt extension system.

This explains a lot of your bike choices.

doozerie

kenmc wrote: »

Plastic end - easy peasy...

Sweet holy lesus! I'm in my happy place, I'm in my happy place, ... *rock* *rock*

doozerie

Lumen wrote: »

Ken is right about the BB7 procedure. You have to start with everything slack and the calipers clamped on to the rotor, and then tighten things in the right order.

Try and find some installation instructions for your calipers (online, even).

I tried a version of that procedure at the time, and it certainly helped a bit, but the final bit of cinching the bolts always pulled the caliper off parallel again. I need to throw some more time at it in case I missed something last time but it seemed like the (slightly off) angle of the calipers was not adjustable at all.

Yeah, I must root around for online instructions alright. I did a cursory search before but didn't find anything, even on Hayes's own site, but that was between sweary bouts of wrestling with the bike so my focus was, er, lacking.

Diarmuid

I have those same mudguards on my Ribble 525 frame with 25 tires. When it's wet, they make a bit of noise from leaves and stones getting pulled up into the mudguard and rubbing slightly. Anyone else have this? I guess the clearance is just too tight with this combo

kenmc

Diarmuid wrote: »

I have those same mudguards on my Ribble 525 frame with 25 tires. When it's wet, they make a bit of noise from leaves and stones getting pulled up into the mudguard and rubbing slightly. Anyone else have this? I guess the clearance is just too tight with this combo

I've a 23 up front and a 28 on the back (babyseat, trying to make the ride a bit more comfy for her). Have also run 35mm winters with no change to the mudguard positioning - that's a little tight to be fair.

On "normal" tyres, no isuses on the back, up front the only issue has been if I manage to tuck the flap back up under the mudguard (e.g. wheeling bike down from a kerb). Guess my bike has a lot more clearance than yours would though.

doozerie

I have that issue with the Crud RoadRacers on one of my bikes, with the front wheel mostly. I expected that it would eventually eat away at the plastic and that the mudguard would basically split in two at some point, but 2 years on it hasn’t happened yet. I guess the scraping just sounds worse than it really is. At it’s worst I have to aim the bike through puddles of water to help clear out the leaves and crud that have managed to get lodged inside the mudguard.

It happens with one of my commute bikes too, which has SKS mudguards and sod all clearance despite having 23mm tyres. It worried me less with that bike as I expected those mudguards to be much more robust, but the noise is actually louder (I guess the shape of the mudguard amplifies it more) so it seems worse. I’ve had the same mudguards on that bike for years though, commuting through all kinds of weather, with no problem.

doozerie

I’m going to give a brief (-ish!) review of the Kona Rove I as I’m currently in the “right” frame of mind to be very honest about it. I bought the 2013 model and I’ve been using it only for my commute for the about the last 3 months amounting to a little under 900km of riding, so basically it has been lightly used and all of that has been on smooth-ish tarmac roads so far - for a bike that is marketed as a “gravel bike”, this amounts to a very easy life to date.

I had problems with the mechanical disk brakes from the outset, I couldn’t orient the pads to be parallel to the rotors. When I bought it they were appallingly setup, but that’s another matter and really one for the thread discussing the merits of buying from an LBS (which is where I got mine) versus online - in short though, the brakes on this brand new bike as it was handed to me were in dire need of attention. It’s my first time using disc brakes so I can’t rule out the possibility that I’ve missed something obvious with their adjustment, but my belief is that either the frame bosses for the disc calipers are slightly misaligned or else the pads themselves are poorly installed or fundamentally rubbish. Either way it’s not good.

The welded bosses on the down tube which acts as guides for the gear cables are located very close to the head tube. As a result the gear cable outers are angled badly as they enter the guides. Mounting the bosses 1cm further away from the head tube would have avoided that. It’s not causing obvious problems as yet but it stresses the gear cables unnecessarily. Anyone that likes smooth lines for any cables would flinch at the sight of them, and might be tempted to relocate them with a hammer.

Kona’s approach to sizing seems to be novel to say the least, or perhaps the LBS were simply lying when they insisted that a medium was “definitely the right size for me”. I’m usually a small in everything, with the very odd exception, but I put my faith in the LBS’s experience of dealing with this brand and its sizing. I now think I just about scrape into the bottom of the size range that the medium (53cm) suits, just. So I’d get by with a medium but it comes with 42cm handlebars, something the LBS neglected to mention, or perhaps even think of. I’m suited to 40cm at most, and arguably 38cm is actually wide enough for me. 42cm bars are silly for me, the fact that these Kona bars are 47cm at the drops (in an earlier post I said they are 44cm at the drops, how wrong I was) makes for an utterly ridiculous setup. I rode the bike away from the shop, on a wave of optimism, but that was a mistake, this bike is not spec’ed for someone of my size and the LBS should have known that. Instead of taking it back to the LBS though I opted to adjust it to my size so I’ve got to live with that decision. I’ve replaced the handlebars with something sane and this has made a big difference but short of replacing the very high headset I can’t lower the bars as much as I’d really like.

I spotted yesterday that the KMC powerlink had broken, one of the plates had simply snapped in two and I’m surprised that the chain itself didn’t break before I spotted it - not sure whether the powerlink’s ability to keep the chain together with only one face plate is a glowing recommendation of its strength, or whether the fact that the other face plate was snapped by a little guy like me is a damning demonstration of its weakness. I also don’t know how long it had been like that. I’ve been planning to swap out the chain and the horrible wide ratio cassette for a better quality chain and a close ratio cassette, and because of that intention I’ve not been looking after the chain properly. I never lubed it, letting it rely on the (rubbish) “lube” that it came coated with. The weather in the last couple of weeks in particular left some surface rust on the chain, and I should have cleaned it and lubed it then but I didn’t. So I didn’t maintain the chain well, but having said that I’ve never experienced a snapped link on any chain this early on in its life so I’m not impressed.

The rear wheel developed a buckle a few weeks back, one of the spokes had come a little loose. It was a spoke to which a wheel reflector was attached - I dislike such reflectors, and it is a reflection (ha!) of the esteem in which I place this bike that I’ve left them on it this far. Taking a spoke key to it has been on my list of things to do since I spotted the buckle, but I reckoned that one loose spoke this early on might indicate that the wheel will need more attention than simply a quick adjustment of that spoke, so I’ve been postponing the job until I have some time to deal with what I expect to find are basically poorly built wheels. This morning one of the other (non-drive side) spokes snapped while on my commute, and appropriately enough it then started to rain heavily so I got soaked as I meandered into work, thinking dark thoughts about Kona - on the plus side, at last I experienced one of the true benefits of disc brakes, the ability to ride a very badly buckled wheel. The hubs are branded “A Class”, a clear example that if you feel the need to openly proclaim your class to all and sundry then you really don’t have any. These wheels appear to be muck, I foresee building my own wheels for it in the near future.

The bike is a tank, in the sense of being extremely heavy rather than any reflection of its robustness. I knew it was heavy when I chose it, its weight is listed in the spec of the bike, but as it is only for commuting I even saw this as a good thing as it should handle the inevitable knocks it’ll take in the shared bike parking where I work. But whenever I retrieve it from my shed each morning I’m slightly surprised each time at exactly how heavy it is, it outweighs my previous MTB by quite a bit. I still don’t consider this a bad thing for my purposes, just something to be aware of if you are thinking of buying one as this aspect of the bike tended to be underplayed in reviews that I read of it.

Last (so far!) but certainly not least, the retail price of this bike is €1,600. To me that is a ridiculous price based purely on its spec on paper. I got a 20% discount on that (for reasons which reflect poorly on Kona), which brought it down to nearly competitive with other brands. My main reason for choosing this bike in the end was because it has clearance for 40mm tyres so it should have no problems handling 35mm spiked tyres with mudguards (though I’ve not tested this combination yet). My experiences to date have demonstrated to me that the bike can’t justify even this reduced price, it is far too expensive given for one the apparently poor quality wheels it comes fitted with.

In short then, this bike is over-priced, weirdly-sized (those handlebars - WTF?), poorly spec’ed, and over-hyped (I’ve seen online reviews rave about it, including suggestions that you could race cyclocross on it - if you have the power to plough this tank of a bike through mud then you’ll almost certainly have exploded the rear wheel within the first 50m of the race). If I were buying again it would not be on my shortlist, I think there is far far better value to be had from other utilitarian CX bike options (e.g. Rose Bikes, Planet X, …) and if you are looking for a bike to race CX on even occasionally then the Kona Rove doesn’t come close to being a good choice. I used to like Kona as a brand but I would hope to never buy another Kona bike again.

Lumen

FWIW my thoughts on disc options have expanded a little recently.

TRP do some interesting brakes.

The HY/RD is cable-actuated but hydraulic at the calipers. The main advantage is compatibility with conventional brifters and symmetric pad operation, which ought to mean much less scrapy-scrapy than conventional mechanical discs (e.g. Avid BB7). I've read a few reviews and apparently they need careful topping up to avoid excess dead travel at the lever.

The Spyre is a symmetric mechanical brake which ought to offer much the same advantages as the HY/RD without the hydro faffing. There was a recall in December but that mentions "free exchange" so maybe the latest ones are OK.

The Hylex is a full hydro drop lever with no shifters. I'm tempted to combine that with downtube shifters but finding a disc frame with DT shifter bosses is impossible, and the metal frames which might be suitable for a clamp-on bodge are often too heavy (e.g. Genesis Equilibrium Disc) or too girthful.

I'm tempted to get a custom Ti disc frame made up with DT bosses, attach 10sp DA shifters and stick Shimano road hydro levers on it (with electronics retrogrouchily ignored), as I reckon the Shimano hydro calipers and levers probably offer the best adjustability and brake feel with easiest maintenance, but that's an expensive solution and my finances haven't yet recovered from the Great Pompetamine Versa Experiment of 2012 so that mad plan will be deferred until I hopefully lose interest.

doozerie

@Lumen, How about bar-end shifters as a potentially ugly compromise/stop-gap? I’ve never used them myself so I’ve never formed an opinion on them but they do seem to divide people so they are certainly not for everyone.

Your mention of ti reminds of the On-One titanium CX, which I like the look of. It might be able to take a lever band on the downtube, though their mention of a “uniquely shaped down tube” makes me wonder. Seemingly good tyre clearance, reasonable price, reasonable (road) gearing out of the box, etc. - if that bike had mudguard and rack eyes then I’d want one right now.

Lumen

doozerie wrote: »

How about bar-end shifters as a potentially ugly compromise/stop-gap? I’ve never used them myself so I’ve never formed an opinion on them but they do seem to divide people so they are certainly not for everyone.

Downtube shifters = retro cool*.
Bar end shifters = dorky tourer.

* Obviously disc brakes destroy all the cool, but hey.

doozerie wrote: »

Your mention of ti reminds of the On-One titanium CX, which I like the look of. It might be able to take a lever band on the downtube, though their mention of a “uniquely shaped down tube” makes me wonder. Seemingly good tyre clearance, reasonable price, reasonable (road) gearing out of the box, etc. - if that bike had mudguard and rack eyes then I’d want one right now.

€1823, 9.5kg, BB7s. Does not compute.

Also, having been down the one-bike-for-everything-including-snow route, I'm really not willing to live with the compromises of CX geometry and handling for a bike that spends >99% of its time not cycling through snow. I'd rather have a fast, light road frame with minimal clearances for 23-25mm tyres and full mudguards.

edit: the Stork Aernario Disc would be perfect if it had clearances for mudguards and wasn't €6k. I'd even live with Di2. It has through-axles at both ends.

doozerie

Lumen wrote: »

€1823, 9.5kg, BB7s. Does not compute.

Value for money is a very subjective thing, and bear in mind that I'm comparing it to a (admittedly overpriced) bike with a similar retail value but with some components that appear to be made of cheese.

But even taken in isolation, €1823 for a bike with a titanium frame isn't a bad price. Assuming that the frame proves to be any good, of course, and that its components are at least middle of the road in terms of quality. Possibly some big assumptions in there though.

colm_gti

I bought a £400 2012 cannondale caadx tiagra (that covered 20 miles and was retired to the shed, it still had the protective plastic bits on the groupset!) for commuting/training/racing on when I moved to london and I adore it!

It has clearance for fat tyres, bosses for mudguards that only a trained eye would spot, bosses for 2 bottle cages and takes any abuse that is thrown at it! I have 28mm armadillos on the factory wheels for commuting, which are heavy, slow and dead. Swap out the sh1te factory wheelset for something lighter with gp4000s and it's as light, stiff and snappy as any road bike I've ever ridden. I notice little difference between it and the scott cr1sl I had in the summer! Swap on a set of aksiums with schwalbe cx pro's and it can handle the mud and slop around Richmond park. It's sufficiently comfortable for 5 hours in the saddle.

I intend on riding a few road races on it in the summer, once I get some avid shorty ultimates!

I still don't see the compromises of using a cx bike as a winter/commuter bike!



It now has a 3t seatpost and handlebars, kcnc stem, fizik antares saddle, and most importantly pink bartape!

doozerie

Lumen wrote: »

edit: the Stork Aernario Disc would be perfect if it had clearances for mudguards and wasn't €6k. I'd even live with Di2. It has through-axles at both ends.

On the topic of through-axles, the new Focus Mares CX has an interesting approach:

The disc version of the Mares CX will feature a clever re-think of the traditional thru-axle, dubbed RAT or Rapid Axle Technology.

The new design replaces the threads normally found on the driveside dropout with a simple slotted insert. The axle itself has a T-shaped pin that fits into this slot and is then turned, locking in place.

The result is a thru-axle that is quicker to engage and disengage than the usual threaded versions, bringing wheel swap times closer to a traditional quick release — removing one of the barriers to a disc brake takeover of cyclocross and road bikes.

It's not exactly a bike that's aimed at the commuter market mind you, but if we're talking Storcks I reckon the thread boundaries have already been widened by quite a bit ...I like Storcks, I hope a Stork will deliver me a Storck some day, as nature intended.

Lumen

Some really nice design from Focus there.

They recently switched to a crown-mounted housing stop for their canti bikes.

http://www.cyclingnews.com/features/photos/gallery-start-line-tech-from-scheldeprijs/259917 (pic below)

I've owned two CX bikes (a PX and a Focus) which both suffered brake judder, and crown mounting ought to eliminate this by vastly reducing the amount of bike between the hanger and the brake bosses.

montac

I'm wondering if I can piggyback off this thread for some advice?
I have been contemplating getting a CX-type bike to use as a commuter bike. I am looking for something sturdy (I am not light), but not sluggish.

I've looked at the Canyon Inflite AL 8.0 S (http://www.canyon.com/_en/roadbikes/bike.html?b=3201)

and at a Rose Pro DX with Shimano 105 http://www.rosebikes.co.uk/bike/rose-pro-dx-cross-randonneur-2000-2014/aid:721780

I am hoping to occasionally carry my toddler son (2 yrs) in a Hamax seat on the back. Would this be out of the question with either of these two bikes?

Separately, I contacted Canyon about fitting a rear rack - they were quite emphatic that firstly it would not be possible to fit a rear rack, and when I suggested a particular model of rear rack, they told me that I would be voiding all warranty. So, I'm not too hopeful about asking their opinion about a child seat!

I know it is quite a bit more expensive, but I reckon the Rose might meet my needs better - (wheels look stronger, dynamo light...) however, if fitting a child seat is not an option, I think I may mothball this plan for the moment!

Lumen

A seatpost-mount child seat will work fine with either, but you may need to consider possible interference between the child seat and the rack. There are racks which allow direct mounting of seats, but these are less comfortable as they don't have the same leaf-spring effect of the Hamax mounting.

Both those bikes have Shimano mechanical disc brake calipers which have the advantage (over BB5/7) of independent inboard and outboard pad adjustment.

Don't much like the look of the mudguards on the Rose.

Dynamo lights are awesome.

dave_o_brien

montac wrote: »

I'm wondering if I can piggyback off this thread for some advice?
I have been contemplating getting a CX-type bike to use as a commuter bike. I am looking for something sturdy (I am not light), but not sluggish.

I've looked at the Canyon Inflite AL 8.0 S (http://www.canyon.com/_en/roadbikes/bike.html?b=3201)

and at a Rose Pro DX with Shimano 105 http://www.rosebikes.co.uk/bike/rose-pro-dx-cross-randonneur-2000-2014/aid:721780

I am hoping to occasionally carry my toddler son (2 yrs) in a Hamax seat on the back. Would this be out of the question with either of these two bikes?

Separately, I contacted Canyon about fitting a rear rack - they were quite emphatic that firstly it would not be possible to fit a rear rack, and when I suggested a particular model of rear rack, they told me that I would be voiding all warranty. So, I'm not too hopeful about asking their opinion about a child seat!

I know it is quite a bit more expensive, but I reckon the Rose might meet my needs better - (wheels look stronger, dynamo light...) however, if fitting a child seat is not an option, I think I may mothball this plan for the moment!

Having worked in a bike shop, I'm pretty confident that there are no manufacturers of traditional bikes that would offer a warranty on their bikes if a child seat was fitted. That's not to say that child seats would damage the bike, it's just unlikely they have tested the frame with an additional cantilevered load attached to it from a range of unspecified locations.

I wouldn't worry about it. Nor would I tell them in advance!

montac

Lumen wrote: »

A seatpost-mount child seat will work fine with either, but you may need to consider possible interference between the child seat and the rack. There are racks which allow direct mounting of seats, but these are less comfortable as they don't have the same leaf-spring effect of the Hamax mounting.

Both those bikes have Shimano mechanical disc brake calipers which have the advantage (over BB5/7) of independent inboard and outboard pad adjustment.

Don't much like the look of the mudguards on the Rose.

Dynamo lights are awesome.

Thanks

dave_o_brien wrote: »

Having worked in a bike shop, I'm pretty confident that there are no manufacturers of traditional bikes that would offer a warranty on their bikes if a child seat was fitted. That's not to say that child seats would damage the bike, it's just unlikely they have tested the frame with an additional cantilevered load attached to it from a range of unspecified locations.

I wouldn't worry about it. Nor would I tell them in advance!

Yeah, I just thought it was a very defensive line from them - kinda took the sheen off their cool brand!

Koobcam

montac wrote: »

Thanks



Yeah, I just thought it was a very defensive line from them - kinda took the sheen off their cool brand!

I have an inflite, the one with the ultegra group set, red and black-top of the range one basically. There are eyelets on the frame for mudguards, but I reckon you could probably also use these to fit carriers. I mainly bought it as a winter bike, but one that I could potentially use for commuting and some trail riding. It's a great bike and very versatile, so from a riding perspective, no problem. However, it may be overkill for the purposes you mentioned.

Lumen

Lumen wrote: »

the Stork Aernario Disc would be perfect if it had clearances for mudguards and wasn't €6k. I'd even live with Di2. It has through-axles at both ends.

The ROSE XEON DX-3100 Di2 2014 seems to offer a similar spec to the Storck except it's €2600 rather than €6500, and almost 2kg heavier though still light for a commuter at a claimed 8.25kg.

http://www.rosebikes.com/bike/rose-xeon-dx-3100-di2-2014/aid:671260

Vlad recently pointed out that Di2 on a commuter means less maintenance, and combined with hydro discs would mean the end to all cable maintenance and rim cleaning, with the only routine maintenance being plugging it in and changing brake pads every now and again.

lennymc

in my never ending quest to acquire more bikes, and seeing as how the surly ended up as a single speed cx race bike, I'm going to hijack my own thread and look at building a commuter. No, really.

Steel is lovely and comfy, so I think I want a steel f&f. Must take 10 spd, downtube shifters are fine and dandy (I'm on a retro buzz), and caliper brakes. Proper mudguards and rack are a must have. I'm really looking for advice on the f&f to see what is out there. I have most of the other parts to build something up.

I was looking at the ribble steel frame, but Im not sure if that takes proper mudguards or a rack. The kaffenback seems to be steel only now. Anything else out there? Dunno what the budget is yet, but nothing crazy. Dynamo hubs and that can wait.

Ending up with something like the bobbin scout would be nice

D!armu!d

Have you looked at the Soma Smoothie? Built one up over the winter and it has eyelets for mudguards & rack. Can throw a few pics up if you want

lennymc

yes please. is it available as a frameset?

Lumen

lennymc wrote: »

I want a steel f&f. Must take 10 spd, downtube shifters are fine and dandy (I'm on a retro buzz), and caliper brakes. Proper mudguards and rack are a must have

Bianchi Campione and Tipo Corsa have DT bosses. Not sure about eyelets.

D!armu!d

Not a great pic but you get the idea - if you're around Dublin you can take it for a spin. Got frameset through Andy in Staggs

lennymc

D!armu!d wrote: »

Not a great pic but you get the idea - if you're around Dublin you can take it for a spin. Got frameset through Andy in Staggs

thanks D!armu!d. I might take you up on that.

lennymc

Lumen wrote: »

Bianchi Campione and Tipo Corsa have DT bosses. Not sure about eyelets.

they don't seem to have eyelets.

AmberGold

I always liked the Soma range, what weight is the Smoothie coming in at with guards etc?

I'm riding a Genesis Equilibrium myself and can't recommend it enough.

G rock

Have you seen oldbean's velo orange?

Pretty sure it has cantis, but it is lovely.

I was close to getting a soma a couple of years ago, very nice in the flesh

lennymc

cantis would be fine. I think I haven't seen oldbean's velo orange.