if you were building a commuter bike...

Lumen

I know this is heresy, but I honestly believe that a hydraulic disk braked, dynamo lit, drop bar race bike with full length mudguards would be almost perfect.

The only downside would be having to clean and lube the drivetrain. I really hate doing that.

Unfortunately the only solutions to that which don't involve servants are hub gears or singlespeed, both of which I've tried and hated.

lennymc

"An army of commute bikes"

Brilliant. Im gonna explain to my significant other that I need an army of bikes for commuting, but i will gladly make do with just the one.

lennymc

Lumen wrote: »

I know this is heresy, but I honestly believe that a hydraulic disk braked, dynamo lit, drop bar race bike with full length mudguards would be almost perfect.

The only downside would be having to clean and lube the drivetrain. I really hate doing that.

Unfortunately the only solutions to that which don't involve servants are hub gears or singlespeed, both of which I've tried and hated.

Are there any auto chain lube systems for bikes? I had one on the motorbike and it was brilliant

doozerie

Lumen wrote: »

I know this is heresy, but I honestly believe that a hydraulic disk braked, dynamo lit, drop bar race bike with full length mudguards would be almost perfect.

I'm inclined to agree, my only reservation being that I'd need the frame to take 35mm spiked tyres and I'm not sure how many road frames would accommodate that. I must look into it actually. The possibly permanent death of my MTB is putting me back into the market for a utilitarian/commute frame or bike.

Having said that, I got my single speed road bike back up and running this weekend necessitated by my MTB woes, and the last couple of days have been a reminder of how much I like a single speed for commuting. My commute is short though, which certainly helps. On the down side though, I'm also rediscovering how rubbish Shimano single speed freewheels are, I'm half expecting it to open up enroute and spill its bearings all over the road, and I'm half wondering whether I'd even notice the lack of them.

doozerie

lennymc wrote: »

Are there any auto chain lube systems for bikes? I had one on the motorbike and it was brilliant

I believe they exist, I have a memory of seeing one online a few years back but I can't find the website now. If I remember correctly you swapped out one of the jockey wheels for a tailored one that came with the kit, though I don't recall the details properly of where or how it regulated the drip. At the time I spoke with a motorbiker and he thought they were problematic with motorbikes though I'm not sure whether he actually ever used one himself, but it put me off the idea.

I'd worry though that the chain would just build up more and more muck on it over time and would need cleaning anyway. I guess that would depend on what kind of lube the system dripped onto it though.

Seaneh

Lenny, if you want a frame that will take 32c tyres and mudguards it might be worth looking at the likes of the Kona Honky Tonk or Surly Long Haul Trucker or Cross Check. Both about the same price, both nice looking and both capable of what you want.

I'd recommend the Specialized Tri-Cross too, takes up to 35mm tyres and full guards and has front and rear rack mounts.

lennymc

Some good suggestions there, however, the more I think about it the more my tcx cross makes sense for commuting. It will do everything that I need it to do, I can make modifications such as a dynamo hub and upgraxde to 10 spd over the next while. I commuted in today, it was as fast as the road bike, it has mudguards, and will take a pannier rack. It also has the cx brake levers on the top of the bars, which are great in and around traffic. I put the power meter on it with a 9 spd block (i can upgrade to 10 spd down the line), so thats fine. It does leave me needing another CX bike for racing tho. Ill be commuting over the next couple of days so I will give it a good workout.

kenmc

planet x kaffenback, disc brakes, rack, drop bars, full mudguards.
particularly in winter, disc brakes are a life saver:
- no rim wear on wheelset,
- predictable performance in rain
- no grey sludge buildup

kaffenback takes 35mm winter spike tyres easily

lennymc

unfortunately the powertap hub wont take a disk, so no disk brakes. Im not convinced on disk brakes for cx racing either, as im normally too slow to need brakes, so they will just add weight.

Seaneh

kenmc wrote: »

planet x kaffenback, disc brakes, rack, drop bars, full mudguards.
particularly in winter, disc brakes are a life saver:
- no rim wear on wheelset,
- predictable performance in rain
- no grey sludge buildup

kaffenback takes 35mm winter spike tyres easily

Kaffenback is all out of stock except for the small black version. From talking to Frank Campbell about it earlier in the year you're looking at third quarter 2013 before they have the new model in stock.

Which is a pity, because I want one :P

kenmc

lennymc wrote: »

unfortunately the powertap hub wont take a disk, so no disk brakes. Im not convinced on disk brakes for cx racing either, as im normally too slow to need brakes, so they will just add weight.

Kaffenback can take cantis too, so you could go disk up front where it's most effective, and canti on the back to go with your powertap.
besides - you said commuter - not cx racer!

doozerie

kenmc wrote: »

kaffenback takes 35mm winter spike tyres easily

Are you sure about that? I've had a look at the Planet X website and it says that the frame can take 32mm only - that could be an error though as I believe the Mk 2 frame has more clearance (for the discs if nothing else) and perhaps that text refers to the old frame.

From photos that I've seen of the Mk 2 there seems to be similar clearance to the Mk 1, height-wise, at the seat stays (Mk 1 is in the foreground) and this is comparable to clearance at the seat tube. I can't decide based on those photos whether a 35mm tyre would fit comfortably with mudguards (the tyre fitted in the photo is 28mm I believe). It's clearance for the tyre "height" that is my concern rather than width.

hypersonic

Could you live with spikes on the front only, should give better braking but i'm not sure if it would be a complete 'mare in the bends?

kenmc

doozerie wrote: »

Are you sure about that? I've had a look at the Planet X website and it says that the frame can take 32mm only - that could be an error though as I believe the Mk 2 frame has more clearance (for the discs if nothing else) and perhaps that text refers to the old frame.

From photos that I've seen of the Mk 2 there seems to be similar clearance to the Mk 1, height-wise, at the seat stays (Mk 1 is in the foreground) and this is comparable to clearance at the seat tube. I can't decide based on those photos whether a 35mm tyre would fit comfortably with mudguards (the tyre fitted in the photo is 28mm I believe). It's clearance for the tyre "height" that is my concern rather than width.

Sorry i think mine are 32 actually, they're somewhere in the garage. Fitting the guards to the 32mm spikes was a little tricky but once I got it right it's fine.
Hardest bit was bending the LHS front guard mounting stay to go around the disc brake.

doozerie

@hypersonic, I'd need the spikes on the back too as the rear end of the bike would be unstable even on straights without them (assuming the snow and ice were on a par with recent years). I live on a bit of a hill too so I'd need the bite from the rear tyre to get up it and the stability getting down it.

I've put the question direct to Planet X themselves and I'll post back if/when they reply in case anyone else is interested. It's otherwise a very interesting frame option, and for decent price too.

Lumen

doozerie wrote: »

I'll post back...in case anyone else is interested

You've never cared about this before. :pac:

doozerie

Lumen wrote: »

You've never cared about this before. :pac:

<Irish mammy>Oh I care! A little part of me dies whenever I see an untidy off-topic post, with misplaced apostrophes and broken logic and everything. I feel it's my duty to add a certain, er, glamour to the place with whatever dribbles out of my mind at times. Not that I'm looking for thanks. No, no, I'm happy spending my life selflessly serving others. But a bit of recognition wouldn't go amiss. *sob* I'll be hoovering my profile if anyone is looking for me. *sniff*</Irish mammy>

kenmc

I went googling in my email for the order for the tyres:

2 Schwalbe Marathon Winter Touring Wired 34,01 EUR 68,02 EUR
Tire 2013 - Reflex
Dimension: 35-622 (28 x 1.35)

they are therefore 35mm...

doozerie

So my MTB is dead, the manufacturer apparently believes that a fatuous excuse for not repairing the break in it ("You used it to tow a trailer? Ah heyor, an MTB is a delicate instrument, your warranty is now void. Have a nice day!") is a perfectly reasonable response. They believe that offering a 20% discount off a replacement frame, or complete bike, of the same brand is a generous compromise. Well thank you Kona, but your products no longer endear themselves to me, and your prices suck too.

So I've been looking around at options, with some of the stuff discussed in this thread in mind. The most interesting options I've encountered have been the following, and these may be of interest to Lenny/others too:

* The Planet X Kaffenbach 2 - steel frame and fork, (shared) eyelets for mudguards and rack, Sram Rival groupset (mostly), Avid BB7 disc brakes, 160mm rotors, €1007 on pre-order, 11.32kg. Reasonable spec, if you like Sram (I've never tried it), and a good price. It may fail to meet my need to accommodate 35mm spiked tyres with mudguards though - I rang the Irish branch to check, they checked with the guys in the UK, and the official line is that they won't stand over this combination. Apparently one of the mechanics says it'll probably work, but that's very unofficial so I'd be on my own if it didn't. So very close to what I want but with that nagging doubt about tyre clearance.

* The Rose Pro DX Cross 2000 - aluminium frame and carbon fork, eyelets for mudguards and rack, Shimano 105 groupset (mostly), Avid BB7 disc brakes, 160mm rotors, €1295 plus delivery, 9.2kg. Decent spec, reasonable price, lighter weight for those looking for that, and as my wife's Rose road bike has worked out well I'd be optimistic about the frameset quality of this one too. I e-mailed them a query about tyre clearance very late one night, and I received a cheerful reply very early the next morning - no problem with 35mm spiked tyres and mudguards apparently, they'd even fit them for me if I wanted. I've had very good experiences shopping with Rose, such excellent customer service is no surprise.

The Rose looks very appealing despite the extra cost, but I couldn't resist window shopping further and noticed this:

* The Rose Pro DX Cross Alfine Di2 Randonneur - same frameset as above, Shimano Alfine Di2 (wired electronic) 11-speed hub, Shimano dynamo front hub, Shimano CX-75 disc brakes, 160mm rotors, lights, mudguards, Tubus rear rack, €2349 plus delivery, 11.6kg. Despite the unappealing mudguards (slimline, look like they wouldn't give great protection), this bike meets many/all of my basic requirements and quite a few of my fantasy shopping list options too. Lot of money for a commute/workhorse bike though. But... we wants it!

Anyone have any experience of the Alfine geared hub, electronic or otherwise? It's very appealing from the point of view of minimal maintenance but if it's not as reliable as the marketing blurb claims then that would put me right off.

mp31

lennymc wrote: »

- is 10 speed shimano compatible and must take power tap hub

Two (potentially silly so please excuse my ignorance) questions:
1. Why do you want a power tap hub for commuting?
2. Are you doing this distance every day?

billyhead

Would anyone know if you could purchase the Rose Pro DX Cross 2000 on the BTW scheme. Looks like a quality commuting/training bike at an affordable price

kenmc

Yes

Diarmuid

How about the Ribble steel frame/bike?

Seaneh

I honestly think that Kaffenback is hard to beat value for money wise.

Diarmuid

Diarmuid wrote: »

How about the Ribble steel frame/bike?

To answer my own question, there;s no way you are getting 35mm tires on the Ribble

lennymc

mp31 wrote: »

Two (potentially silly so please excuse my ignorance) questions:
1. Why do you want a power tap hub for commuting?
2. Are you doing this distance every day?

I use a pm for training, and can incorporate the guts of 4 hrs training into a commute. I have the pm already. In racing season I commute about once or twice a week depending on what's on, and in winter about 2-3 times a week depending on the weather and other commitments.

@doozerie - I ended up getting a surly cross check frame and fork so will use the tcx for commuting for now and race the surly in cx. Alternatively I can race the tcx and commute on the surly. I went with the surly because it seemed like the most versatile option out there.

doozerie

doozerie wrote: »

* The Rose Pro DX Cross 2000 - aluminium frame and carbon fork, eyelets for mudguards and rack, Shimano 105 groupset (mostly), Avid BB7 disc brakes, 160mm rotors, €1295 plus delivery, 9.2kg. Decent spec, reasonable price, lighter weight for those looking for that, and as my wife's Rose road bike has worked out well I'd be optimistic about the frameset quality of this one too. I e-mailed them a query about tyre clearance very late one night, and I received a cheerful reply very early the next morning - no problem with 35mm spiked tyres and mudguards apparently, they'd even fit them for me if I wanted. I've had very good experiences shopping with Rose, such excellent customer service is no surprise.

Thought I'd provide an update here in case anyone is looking for the same functionality out of this Rose bike as I am.

This week I asked Rose directly whether their Pro DX Cross frameset can take 45mm mudguards (SKS P45 Chromoplastic, to be precise) along with 35mm studded tyres. Their answer was that it can't. I asked them to clarify whether the issue was mudguard clearance at the chainstays, thinking that I could trim the mudguards a little there if necessary, but their answer was quite vague in that they said I'd have to mount the mudguards myself and they they couldn't do so in the workshop. I'm inclined to think the mudguards could be made to fit, but that's a guess so this question remains something to bear in mind by anyone thinking of buying this bike and planning to fit it with mudguards that provide decent coverage with 35mm tyres - they do sell this bike with mudguards fitted but from the photos it looks like the mudguards they fit give little or no "side" coverage, which might be fine for some but for a commute bike I wouldn't be happy with anything less than conventional mudguards which give some coverage at the sides.

I also had a question about clearance around the rear non-drive side dropout. My child trailer hitch point is a big lump of metal that attaches at that side via the skewer, and it needs a flat surface area at the dropout with a radius of about 17mm or so (so cowled dropout won't work with it, for example). I asked whether the Pro DX Cross frameset has the necessary clearance but their answer was a very stark "you can't use this frameset with a child trailer". I asked them to clarify whether this was due to lack of clearance at the dropout or whether they explicitly advise against using the frameset with any form of trailer. It's the latter, or in their own words this frameset "is a sophisticated light weight frame and not made for using a trailer. It is a bike for sportive use".

I'm a bit surprised by that latter answer, but it is in keeping with Kona's refusal to warranty my snapped (steel) MTB frame because I towed a trailer with it. Maybe I'm simply underestimating the stresses that towing a trailer puts on a bike frame but I suspect that the issue here is really just manufacturers covering their own arses by advising that frames that are supposedly designed to take the pounding of being ridden off-load can't take the stress of towing a trailer. Makes you wonder what framesets out there are "officially" deemed suitable for towing a trailer - funnily enough though my wife's aluminium Kona hybrid shows no signs of any issues arising from towing a laden child trailer almost daily for a few years now. But it is something to bear in mind if buying a frame that you plan to use with a trailer, and of course it is something to consider too if you ever look to warranty a damaged frame that you've used to tow a trailer at any stage.

Oh, and that particular Rose frameset's availability seems to be dropping quite fast. They provide an "availabilities" link on the page of each model of bike built from that frameset - the details refer to the availability of the frameset itself rather than the completed bike so if the page for any of their models shows that the frameset is unavailable in your size then it's not available in that size as any of the other builds either. They've already sold out of my size and at least one other size, so if you are thinking about one of these bikes be sure to keep an eye on its availability while you make your decision.

And on that note, the Planet-X Kaffenback that I linked to above is no longer available either, presumably that's sold out too. So I'm now looking further afield for a disc-equipped bike with drop bars, and the most interesting ones so far, all of them steel framesets, are: Kona Rove - fits the bill but is overpriced as far as I am concerned and also I'm still in a huff with Kona, but I've not ruled it out; Cotic Roadrat - very versatile frameset, comes with (removable) v-brake *and* disc mounts which would make migrating to this frameset easier for me over the longer term, reasonable price for the frameset (I don't like the components on the pre-built models so I'm not convinced of the value of those), but not suitable for drop bars (but a new frameset planned by them for next Spring will take drop bars); Kinesis Decade Tripster - another versatile frameset, quite a bit more expensive than the Cotic though.

droidus

doozerie wrote: »

* The Rose Pro DX Cross Alfine Di2 Randonneur - same frameset as above, Shimano Alfine Di2 (wired electronic) 11-speed hub, Shimano dynamo front hub, Shimano CX-75 disc brakes, 160mm rotors, lights, mudguards, Tubus rear rack, €2349 plus delivery, 11.6kg. Despite the unappealing mudguards (slimline, look like they wouldn't give great protection), this bike meets many/all of my basic requirements and quite a few of my fantasy shopping list options too. Lot of money for a commute/workhorse bike though. But... we wants it!

Anyone have any experience of the Alfine geared hub, electronic or otherwise? It's very appealing from the point of view of minimal maintenance but if it's not as reliable as the marketing blurb claims then that would put me right off.

I love them. If youre looking at that kind of money, the Raleigh pictured here would probably be cheaper when it comes out:



http://www.coolhunting.com/tech/shimano-alfine-di2.php
http://www.bikerumor.com/2012/03/29/2013-raleigh-commuter-road-bike-with-shimano-alfine-di2-spotted/

lennymc

how about the surly disc trucker frame? Im quite impressed with the ride on the crosscheck, finish is very nice, and it feels like it will last.

WAPAIC

doozerie wrote: »

And on that note, the Planet-X Kaffenback that I linked to above is no longer available either, presumably that's sold out too.

I preordered a kaffenback but haven't received it yet. I contacted them last friday via their facebook page and I got a call back a few hours later from one of the lads in the workshop who said the frames had just arrived and they were unpacking them and getting ready to build them up. I mentioned ti was gone from the website and he said he reckoned they would be back up soon. Probably worth dropping them a mail to see what the story is. Whoever runs the facebook page for them is pretty quick to respond too. You're welcome to have a look at mine when I get it, send me a pm if you like.