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Is the selection process for the Lions tour captain flawed?

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    #62
    parttime77
    Registered Users Posts: 9 ✭parttime77


    Anyway , with the test team out today , how many irish will get in the 15 and on the bench , !!!! , BOD ,Sexton , POC, Heaslip is a close call , I think he will shade it , if not defo on the bench , Bench SOB, RK ,Zebo.With zebo able to cover full back could he keep kearney off the bench , the bench will be as intreseting as the first 15.


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    #63
    irishbucsfan
    Registered Users Posts: 37,978 ✭✭✭✭irishbucsfan


    twinytwo wrote: »
    Id have no problem if he was playing well, but he is not. As tour captain he is expected to play well.

    As for people waiting for him to make a mistake.. the way gatty and sky blow smoke up his arse even though he his doing nothing.

    He played well a couple of days ago. If you think he was doing nothing then I really don't know what to say to you!


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    #64
    sydthebeat
    Subscribers Posts: 41,103 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    irishbucsfan wrote: »
    He played well a couple of days ago. If you think he was doing nothing then I really don't know what to say to you!

    he did no more than what was basically required of him.

    his second half was a bit better than his first.

    at this stage i think tipurics stock fell a little after the brumbies game and him and warburton are roughly on the same level, although i personally think tipuric is a lot more effective over the park. Warburton hasnt shown any thing yet to date on tour that hes better in the breakdown than any SOB, Lydiate and Tipuric.... crofts main skills lie elsewhere ;)


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    #65
    irishbucsfan
    Registered Users Posts: 37,978 ✭✭✭✭irishbucsfan


    sydthebeat wrote: »
    he did no more than what was basically required of him.

    his second half was a bit better than his first.

    at this stage i think tipurics stock fell a little after the brumbies game and him and warburton are roughly on the same level, although i personally think tipuric is a lot more effective over the park. Warburton hasnt shown any thing yet to date on tour that hes better in the breakdown than any SOB, Lydiate and Tipuric.... crofts main skills lie elsewhere ;)

    See this is exactly it. To say he did no more than was basically required of him makes little sense.

    What do you think was "basically required of him"?


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    #66
    trouttrout
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,234 ✭✭✭trouttrout


    Look, you basically need one of Lydiate or Warburton starting. Maybe if Ian Evans had made a better case for himself and forced his way into the team it would be easier to accommodate SOB or Tipuric at 7 but you only need to look at the game yesterday to see how ineffective Gatlands game plan is without the hard unspectacular slog of Warburton or Lydiate

    Does that mean Warburton should be captain?No, does it mean he's playing well? No. But considering the rest of the pack either him or Lydiate is needed in the backrow


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    #67
    sydthebeat
    Subscribers Posts: 41,103 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    irishbucsfan wrote: »
    See this is exactly it. To say he did no more than was basically required of him makes little sense.

    What do you think was "basically required of him"?

    theres different kinds of flankers.... its probably the position on the field with the least structured roles.

    The 'basic' duties of a flanker is to:
    protect in and around the structured areas such as scrums
    hit rucks and slow down opposition ball where possible, turn over at a sniff
    hit rucks, secure and clear out on own ball
    its disruption, foraging and playing with highly level of continued controlled aggression. warbs so far in the last year has yet to show he can do this.

    if you want to know what a flanker can do above and beyond their basic duties look to SOB so far on this tour.. how many tries has he been involved in the back line play? how good have his hands been in those situations.... his line breaks? hes even put in grubbers ffs.
    A great flanker links up backs and forwards by being available to carry around rucks, make line breaks, make the hard yards.


    so my point of a warburton just doing the basics stands, doing basics in a position with the least defined basic roles isnt what you want...


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    #68
    irishbucsfan
    Registered Users Posts: 37,978 ✭✭✭✭irishbucsfan


    Thats a very genereal list, So think about what of those things are most important to Gatland.

    And think about what combination achieves that most effectively.

    I believe it is SOB, Warburton and Heaslip. But maybe Croft makes sense as well. I wouldn't start Tipuric for sure though.


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    #69
    sydthebeat
    Subscribers Posts: 41,103 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    irishbucsfan wrote: »
    Thats a very genereal list, So think about what of those things are most important to Gatland.

    And think about what combination achieves that most effectively.

    I believe it is SOB, Warburton and Heaslip. But maybe Croft makes sense as well. I wouldn't start Tipuric for sure though.

    Thats the point, i dont think warburton is more effective than SOB on the ground, under current form. If its pure ground working that gatland wants from his open side lydiate can almost put his hand up and say he deserves a pick.

    i dont think theres too much between tipuric and warburton after the brumbies game.. and i really hope for the lions sake that warbs brushes off the cobwebs and has a great test series...

    what you have above is very well balanced, and more balanced than croft / heaslip / warbs.... but i cant see gatland starting SOB unfortunately.


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    #70
    irishbucsfan
    Registered Users Posts: 37,978 ✭✭✭✭irishbucsfan


    sydthebeat wrote: »
    Thats the point, i dont think warburton is more effective than SOB on the ground, under current form. If its pure ground working that gatland wants from his open side lydiate can almost put his hand up and say he deserves a pick.

    i dont think theres too much between tipuric and warburton after the brumbies game.. and i really hope for the lions sake that warbs brushes off the cobwebs and has a great test series...

    what you have above is very well balanced, and more balanced than croft / heaslip / warbs.... but i cant see gatland starting SOB unfortunately.
    I don't think its more balanced actually. I think it will just require a Heaslip to play more narrowly than he would have if SOB was playing, in defense that is.

    Warburton is not better on the ground defensively, but that's not what the selection is based on. He showed on Saturday that he is excellent offensively and that is what is more important to the Lions this time out when they're playing Gatland ball. I don't think its an area of strength for Tipuric, and I think thats why he has struggled to establish himself internationally at times when Wales are looking to hold onto the ball for long periods.


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