Rathmore

cfuserkildare

Quick update,

Naas Gardai phoned me and said that an archeologist did it?!?!

SERIOUSLY!!!

Any Archeologist did that, then they should be shot.

Nobody, but Nobody would knowingly leave a grave open to the elements, or leave bones scattered over an area that big.

Also Slowburner, the stone is deeper than it is broad, and kinda thicker at the back or bottom face than the top like a trapezoid, I couldn't say for sure but it does look more like it should lie flat than standing.

Any thoughts?

Cheers.

slowburner

cfuserkildare wrote: »

Quick update,

Naas Gardai phoned me and said that an archeologist did it?!?!

SERIOUSLY!!!

Any Archeologist did that, then they should be shot.

Nobody, but Nobody would knowingly leave a grave open to the elements, or leave bones scattered over an area that big.

Also Slowburner, the stone is deeper than it is broad, and kinda thicker at the back or bottom face than the top like a trapezoid, I couldn't say for sure but it does look more like it should lie flat than standing.

Any thoughts?

Cheers.

Odder and odder.
The excavation was uncharacteristically neat for a treasure hunter.
It is irresponsible and downright disrespectful for anyone - licensed or not, to leave a grave in this sort of condition.
I'll make some more enquiries.

I don't think the stone was ever intended to be a grave slab.

KnapperHandy

I agree with slowburner that the stone was not intended to be a grave slab.I visited the cemetery last week and took a few photos;it definitely bears a rough cruciform shape(see photos attached).The lower part of this granite stone(3ft. or so) has a darker colouration than the rather white,weathered cruciform-shaped part(it seemed rather obvious to me that the lower 3ft. or so had been buried in soil).The cruciform-shaped part,which would have been exposed,has significant moss growth upon it,whereas the lower part has none at all.

cfuserkildare

Hey Folks,

Just had the Super at Naas Garda on the phone, and he says that the Rector for St.Columcilles Rathmore commissioned an Archeologist to take a look, and that is how he left it.

How could an archeologist leave a dig like that?

I have found that it is difficult to walk round the back of the mound without there being crunchy sounds under the feet, also found more bones on the spoil heap, hand or foot, not sure which.

Terrible state to leave a burial mound / barrow.

Really disgusted.

KnapperHandy

Yeah I agree cfuserkildare - it's a disgrace the way it was left!

But what happens now?Surely it can't be left the way it is?

I know this sounds mad :eek:,but I would be prepared to help out if anyone else here is?It wouldn't take long for a few able-bodied individuals to refill the trench and to set the cross upright once again!I'm not sure if we would be legally allowed to do so,but maybe slowburner's pals in the NMS could advise?

olly_mac

cfuserkildare wrote: »

Hey Folks,

Just had the Super at Naas Garda on the phone, and he says that the Rector for St.Columcilles Rathmore commissioned an Archeologist to take a look, and that is how he left it.

How could an archeologist leave a dig like that?

I have found that it is difficult to walk round the back of the mound without there being crunchy sounds under the feet, also found more bones on the spoil heap, hand or foot, not sure which.

Terrible state to leave a burial mound / barrow.

Really disgusted.

That was totally unprofessional. The archaeologist in question should never be allowed to obtain a licence again. He or she should also be reported to the relevant professional bodies, as well as the statutory ones.

Also, has it been ascertained as to whether this person actually held a licence?

Coles

They would appear to be questions for the Rector at St. Columcilles. If the Rector commissioned the archaeologist then the Rector needs to take responsibility for the work.

This is an area I don't know anything about, but are archaeologists commissioned to excavate graves regularly? It seems odd and I genuinely would have thought that permission would have to be granted from the State. I'd certainly be interested to know why it was done.

slowburner

KnapperHandy wrote: »

Yeah I agree cfuserkildare - it's a disgrace the way it was left!

But what happens now?Surely it can't be left the way it is?

I know this sounds mad :eek:,but I would be prepared to help out if anyone else here is?It wouldn't take long for a few able-bodied individuals to refill the trench and to set the cross upright once again!I'm not sure if we would be legally allowed to do so,but maybe slowburner's pals in the NMS could advise?

I think it would be unwise to alter anything until we know more.

Coles wrote: »

They would appear to be questions for the Rector at St. Columcilles. If the Rector commissioned the archaeologist then the Rector needs to take responsibility for the work.

This is an area I don't know anything about, but are archaeologists commissioned to excavate graves regularly? It seems odd and I genuinely would have thought that permission would have to be granted from the State. I'd certainly be interested to know why it was done.

I can't imagine why the rector or anyone else would want one grave excavated.
Strictly speaking it's not an excavation, it's an exhumation and requires an exhumation license from the local authority.

cfuserkildare

Hey Folks,

Apparently the Rector is going to have the hole filled in!

Surely this needs to be looked at before the hole is filled?

Mental!!

KnapperHandy

I suppose you can't blame him - he's obviously concerned about the health and safety implications of leaving such a trench open!

cfuserkildare

Hope to find out the name of the "Archeologist" that left this mess.

Hopefully they will never work on this island again.

cfuserkildare

Okay,

Latest news is that I had somebody look at the site last night,

They came to the conclusion that it was very a unprofessional job possibly by a mini-digger.

Might get things moving a little better as these people have solid contacts in the NMS.

Watch this space.

cfuserkildare

Hey folks,

Was up at Rathmore Cemetery yesterday, and was a little surprised to find that the burial mound is still exactly as it was when I found it 3 months ago.

baaba maal

I was up there today- and the hole is still there!:eek:
Just the same as the photos show it, and more bone weathering out (if that is the term) from the sides. I know the heritage officer in the council- I will be talking to her about this tomorrow.
It's a disgrace that it hasn't been sorted. I have to say that the stone is very interesting (to my untutored eye).

cfuserkildare

Hey folks,

Just as a point of interest,

An animal ( possibly Rabbit/Fox/Badger) has been digging a hole in the Motte itself.
Last time I was up there was before the bad weather, but we found 1 or 2 cut looking stones dug out of the hole.

Need to get back up there and get some new pics.

baaba maal

I spoke with the heritage officer. She will get in touch with the relevant authorities.

cfuserkildare

Hey Baaba Maal,

Any news?

baaba maal

No, I will talk to her over the next few days- hopefully it will result in this situation being resolved soon. My assumption is that the cross was excavated from that pit- do you know if this is the case?

cfuserkildare

Hey,

Not too sure to be honest.
I found the dug out mound by accident.
I was up there taking pics of the church, and when trying to get a good angle i stepped backwards and almost fell into the hole.

But from what I have seen at other contemporary mounds, I assume that the " Cross " was mounted vertically as a grave marker.

I find it a little mental that this has been left like this for so long.

Considering how long ago I reported it.

slowburner

baaba maal wrote: »

No, I will talk to her over the next few days- hopefully it will result in this situation being resolved soon. My assumption is that the cross was excavated from that pit- do you know if this is the case?

Based on the photos supplied above, there is absolutely no doubt that the headstone was excavated. The differences between the exposed and buried portions are clear.
I understand that this was a legitimate, licensed excavation. Why it has been left in this condition, I do not know.

baaba maal

Ah- that ties in with the response I got via the heritage officer- they are aware of the situation and are going to follow up. I will let you know as further responses happen.
I accept that it was a legitimate dig, but I would like to know the rational behind it, and obviously why it was left in the state it was.

cfuserkildare

Was this done as a licensed dig?
If so, then whoever did it was totally inexperienced, there are bones scattered all around the mound, bones severed in the hole, and over-all it is very messy.
Has anyone checked if a license was actually applied for and given.
When I was up there talking to the Gardai when I reported it, they contacted the church minister and were told a local archaeologist did it, but it was all very vague.

Bonedigger

Have you been there in recent days cfuser?Is it as it was several months ago?
I think the National Museum issues the licenses - I'd contact them if you haven't done so already.I'd also contact the National Monuments Service again too.
It doesn't make sense why this was dug in the first place!

cfuserkildare

I have been onto the NMI and am awaiting results of their investigation.
Hopefully something positive will happen.

cfuserkildare

Hi Folks,

I was up at the site today,

Holy F**K-Ups Batman,

Somebody has removed the top of the mound and used the grass and soil to refill the hole.

Unfortunately, who-ever did this has still left bones all over the place, and probably damaged anything below where the stone has now been inserted vertically in the hole.

Pics up in a while.

baaba maal

Is it just me, or does it look like they attempted to make it look like the cross was never excavated? The sods of long grass are clearly packed around the base of it even though the cross was lifted completely out of the excavation.

cfuserkildare

When I finally got a response from the Gardai last year they contacted the COI Minister who said an archaeologist had done it??
However, I had my doubts then and I have a feeling that somebody has as you say attempted to hide the ghastly deed and hope it goes away.

I have been on to the NMI and am awaiting a result, although nothing came of my report last year.

Hopefully this time if enough people complain then surely something must happen.

Bonedigger

Has the cross been put back in its original position?
It looks like it may have been put to one side to create a bit of space - they're hardly going to use that spot for future burials or are they?!!

cfuserkildare

Hey Bonedigger,

Not sure about the original position as I only discovered the place after the excavation had been carried out.

According to the Duty Officer at the NMI, this is already within the boundaries of a protected monument, ( Rathmore Motte) so technically the mound should not have been touched in the first place, never mind re-using it.

cfuserkildare

Just a quick update,

The original dig was carried as a licensed dig?!?

Then the top of the mound has been removed and used to refill the excavation and also support the " Cross " as part of this " Licensed Dig ".

WTF, are these people still in pre-school day-care??

Shameful, absolutely disgusted that this mess was made officially.